mike..
cats are a different kettle of fish so to speak... dogs do show empathy..i have had dogs since i was 7.. the dog is my best friend..i have had cats too... i have 2 italian greyhounds now..ralph age 84 and max age 92.. i have the pleasure of knowing a cocker spaniel, goldie miniature daschaund tiina, basset hounds lulu and henry and their baby... toby a mongrel.... whippy, zippy, chief, muscles and jimmy... all whippets.. aussie boy..italian greyhound.. now these 2 italian greyhounds..ralph and max last cat burmese brown boy lived 161 cat years... a legend animals are beautiful amazing creatures.. witness the ants carrying their dead back home... hey hey hey..ho ho ho...humans... starve them and you'll see them run to the trough.. if they are so so good..how come there is mass starvation and wars wars wars.. corruption and murders.. do you hear of animals murdering and then raping the dead victim... human beings are about as low a creature you can get on this planet.. they are sadistical psychopathic greedy..the list goes on... kill for killing sake... you are the one putting the human on the pedestal... everyday one read in newspapers the horror committed by a human or humans..man's in humanity to man.. what animal would kill another for a cause?..god forbid... how insane is that?... marching to war because some lunatic in an office on his golden throne barks orders we must attack... and don't tell me it does not happen?... out go the "factory fodder"...marching to war... if they do not they are shot anyway for not playing the game so to speak... is that not insane? Merle, Take your time. I'm not going anywhere! Yes, I've had dogs since I was 10 years old. My last one was an Australian Cattle Dog - smartest dog in the world! People don't know what they're missing by not having one. But even if I grant you they might exhibit some degree of empathy, it's nothing as developed as ours. Break the leg of one dog and throw down a piece of meat and watch how the others will rush past it to get at the food. We can display empathy and compassion to the point of dying for the other. I just think putting animals on a pedestal as being somehow more noble than us is idealistic and naive to the extreme. I'd risk my neck to get my daughter's cat out of the tree, but I don't think the cat would reciprocate - even if it could carry me by the scruff of my neck. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] how good is that? Sent: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:33:10 AM mike..i question your assumption that animals have no ability for empathy...have you lived with dogs?... i believe and there are studies done that animals too have feelings i have yet to reply to your other emails...bear with me.. family calls... merle Bill!, Like I said in another post, it's not a question of being superior to animals (good or bad), but that we have the potential to transcend the self and realise our true nature - true peace and happiness that comes with a cessation of suffering. No other animal that we know of can do that. It's not because we're chosen or have been singled out, but because evolution has gone that way for us (whether that's a natural consequence of life and evolution, I don't know). Spiders and foxes blindly follow their instincts with no ability for introspection/empathy towards others in regard of their actions. Are you seriously saying that unwaveringly following their nature is more exalted than our ability to do those things?? You and Merle can bemoan the fact you weren't born as ants or fruit-bats, but I'll rejoice in my humanity and "strive" to reach our highest potential. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]>; To: <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] how good is that? Sent: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 2:22:06 AM Mike, In defense of Merle's defense of my statement... I think her feeling expressed in 'how beautifully they live' is indeed human - the 'beautiful' part. What I think she is saying is she recognizes they are living according to their nature, which is not necessary human nature. I'd also say your preference for intellect over instinct is anthropomorphic. Like I said we can 'transcend' or 'override' our instincts with our intellect, but that produces both good and bad things - from a human perspective. Surely you're not saying a spider eating a fly or a fox eating a chicken is 'bad'. I don't think either a spider or a fox has an intellect which produces a moralistic dualism of good/bad. In other words and using Judea/Christian mythology, spiders and foxes have not 'eaten the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil' so they are all still living in the 'Garden of Eden' in direct communion with 'God' - living in an original, natural state unlike humans. These are some of my thoughts on this topic anyway...Bill! --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Merle,<br/><br/>>how many folk rise above their instincts and > desires?...<br/><br/>You keep missing my point. By being born human we have > the _potential_ to transcend our instincts and desires - something no other > organism consistently demonstrates. We are much more fortunate. In > Buddhist/Hindu terms, being born human is akin to falling off a ship and > rising to the surface to find a wooden yoke directly above us. <br/><br/>>the > other organisms that you say are trapped by instinct... <br/><br/>Are you > saying they are not?<br/><br/>>how beautifully they live..as bill says free > from attachments... they just are.. <br/><br/>"Beautiful"? I'd say that's a > very anthropomorphic term. You're a gardener. Ever seen a vegetarian spider > or a fox help a chicken cross the road?<br/><br/>>we ..us humans strive to > be...the other organisms just are..<br/><br/>They just "are" includes being driven by blind instinct. We can transcend that, even though many > don't.<br/><br/>>no wringing of hands and wrestling with philosophies, > religions psychology.... free to be........ <br/>how good is > that?...<br/><br/>It's not a question of being superior to other animals, but > that we are unique - at this stage of evolution - as self-transcending > beings. <br/><br/><br/>>let us take a leaf out of these organisms books so to > speak,.... <br/><br/>Everything is our teacher.<br/><br/><br/>> by the way we > are those organisms..<br/>have you not met in your travels the human > reptile?.... <<br/><br/>Many times. How many times have you met a reptilian > Jesus or Dalai Lama?<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! > Mail for iPad >
