Merle, I was comparing the love shown by the dedication of the repetitive pilgrimage of both the widow to the mailbox and the dog Hachiko to the place of his master's disappearance.
Perhaps it would help if I'd ended my post with a ;>)? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > Â bill...why a statue..?.... she's only human..as is the dead husband..what's > so grand about the collecting of the retirement check?..merle > Â > Merle and Edgar, > > I've known many female humans who have gone to their mailbox every month to > collect their long-dead husband's retirement check. I've never seen any > statues erected to them though. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ÃÂ yes edgar...how many humans can be this devoted?...merle > > > > > > ÃÂ > > Merle and Joe, > > > > Know the story of the faithful dog Hachiko who waited every evening at the > > train station for his master to come home from work every evening even long > > after he died on the train and never came home again? I often passed his > > statue in the local train station when I lived in Tokyo.... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ yes mike..i see what you are saying..however i will disagree... > > >animals have been known to rise above..witness the dog who's master is > > >dead as he sits at his grave yearning and longing... animals have feelings > > >and do rise above... merle > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >Merle, > > > > > >That might be your point, but it's not mine. The tiger is doing nothing > > >wrong by following its instincts and eating you: it's nothing personal - > > >you're just lunch. I get that. But the tiger has no choice - it's blindly > > >following its instinct to survive. It has no idea of the suffering it > > >inflicts on you. Humans on the other hand can act against self-interest, > > >even if it harms themselves, because of they have an awareness of the > > >other's suffering. Just because there are more instances of the opposite > > >occurring doesn't negate that we *do* have that ability to a much higher > > >degree than any other animal. Like I said, it's not because we've been > > >divinely chosen, but because of the quirks of evolution affecting human > > >development. We are a spiritual animal. We know of no other animal that is > > >so. > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for > > iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? > > >Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 4:27:25 AM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ mike..the point here is the tiger does what it does and that is > > >that..i'd rather be eaten by a tiger than murdered by a human...what would > > >you prefer?...merle > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >Merle, > > > > > >The use of ">" indicates a cut and paste of *your* words. > > > > > >>you seem to have it in for animals and insects etc. > > > > > >This is what you wrote about me. As I have said over and over, this is > > >simply not true. My point is that we have the ability to transcend > > >instinctive behaviours - something unique in the animal kingdom. It's such > > >an obvious point that I don't know why you'd need examples or further > > >elaboration. A human can refuse to kill a tiger even to the point of dying > > >for that belief. That same tiger would rip him apart given the chance. > > >It's nothing to do with the tiger being "bad". The point is that a human > > >can act on higher principles of compassion, mercy, altruism etc. > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? > > >Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:13:29 AM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >ÃÂ mike are you actually reading my posts...do i say i have it in for > > >animals and insects? > > >ÃÂ no..i say i have it in for humans!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >ÃÂ what ever IN means in your books > > >ÃÂ i see so we humans can transcend.... really..transcend to > > >where??????..merle > > >ÃÂ > > >Merle, > > > > > >> you seem to have it in for animals, insects etc. > > > > > >Don't put words into my mouth that were never there! > > > > > >I was careful to point out in my earlier post that we are *not* superior > > >to other animals, just unique in our ability to transcend base instincts. > > >Constantly giving me examples of the terrible things humans do to each > > >other, other animals and the environment does *not* constitute an argument > > >against this premise. Human beings have the sense of sight. To keep > > >bringing up examples of blind people you know doesn't negate the first > > >point. > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: [Zen] rise above > > >Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 10:43:59 PM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ mike...what do you wish me to elaborate?... i was in a situation back > > >when i was 20...i hitch hiked...very silly... and the guy pulled car over > > >in a bushland setting..well well well i thought best appeal to his better > > >consciousness...and with a bit of fast talking on my part he said get out > > >of car...i ran for my life... so i was succeeded in getting this animal to > > >transcend his instinct..so to speak... however this not always the case is > > >it...no amount of getting the "killer" "rapist" to see the light will ever > > >happen..hell bent on their task at hand...they do what they "must do".... > > >so now you tell me these folk can "rise above"..well maybe they cannot.... > > >ÃÂ you seem to have it in for animals, insects etc... they don't need to > > >"rise above"..because they do what they must do and do it well.... > > >ÃÂ humans are the ones who are hell bent on destruction...fuelled by > > >stupidity, ignorance, hormones, and "wrong thinking"..... > > >you know that..witness the world as it is... > > >ÃÂ merle > > >ÃÂ > > >Merle, > > > > > >My apologies! I thought you were referring to the killer not the victim. > > > > > >However, I don't see the relevancy between the victim and the ability to > > >transcend animal instinct. Can you elaborate on that further in regard to > > >what I've been arguing here? > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ not all ÃÂ humans have a choice either.... this is simplistic > > >thinking on your part mike..did the english man butchered by the crazy > > >killer have a choice?..merle > > >ÃÂ > > >That's not the point I'm making though. We have a choice. Animals don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] how good is that? > > >Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 4:37:33 AM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ mike..i see...however how many are willing?..merle > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >Merle, > > > > > >That's the point. We have the potential to do so regardless of how many > > >don't. > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] how good is that? > > >Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 4:29:57 AM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ mike ..we "might" have the potential to rise "above"...however how > > >many of us do????????? merle > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >Merle, > > > > > >>how many folk rise above their instincts and desires?... > > > > > >You keep missing my point. By being born human we have the _potential_ to > > >transcend our instincts and desires - something no other organism > > >consistently demonstrates. We are much more fortunate. In Buddhist/Hindu > > >terms, being born human is akin to falling off a ship and rising to the > > >surface to find a wooden yoke directly above us. > > > > > >>the other organisms that you say are trapped by instinct... > > > > > >Are you saying they are not? > > > > > >>how beautifully they live..as bill says free from attachments... they > > >>just are.. > > > > > >"Beautiful"? I'd say that's a very anthropomorphic term. You're a > > >gardener. Ever seen a vegetarian spider or a fox help a chicken cross the > > >road? > > > > > >>we ..us humans strive to be...the other organisms just are.. > > > > > >They just > > "are" includes being > > driven by > > blind instinct. We can transcend that, even though many don't. > > > > > >>no wringing of hands and wrestling with philosophies, religions > > >>psychology.... free to be........ > > >how good is that?... > > > > > >It's not a question of being superior to other animals, but that we are > > >unique - at this stage of evolution - as self-transcending beings. > > > > > > > > >>let us take a leaf out of these organisms books so to speak,.... > > > > > >Everything is our teacher. > > > > > > > > >> by the way we are those organisms.. > > >have you not met in your travels the human reptile?.... > > > > > >Many times. How many times have you met a reptilian Jesus or Dalai Lama? > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: [Zen] how good is that? > > >Sent: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 11:38:32 PM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >ÃÂ mike..ho ho ho..ÃÂ > > >how many folk rise above their instincts and desires?... > > >just take a look at this crazy world... > > >the other organisms that you say are trapped by instinct...ÃÂ > > >how beautifully they live..as bill says free from attachments... they just > > >are..ÃÂ > > >we ..us humans strive to be...the other organisms just are.. > > >no wringing of hands and wrestling with philosophies, religions ÃÂ > > >psychology.... free to be........ÃÂ > > >how good is that?... > > >let us take a leaf out of these organisms books so to speak,....ÃÂ > > >ÃÂ by the way we are those organisms.. > > >have you not met in your travels the human reptile?....ÃÂ > > >merle > > > > > > > > >Bill!, > > > > > >I'd say the difference is a major one. Animals are driven by instinct and > > >are largely prisoners to it. We are too, but we do have the potential to > > >transcend them (instincts). > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>; > > >To: <[email protected]>; > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] no sound is heard what so ever > > >Sent: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 8:31:54 AM > > > > > > > > >ÃÂ > > >Mike, > > > > > >It's just possible that "no other organism' needs these gifts (the > > >dharma). Since we humans make our own suffering through attachments it's > > >possible that is not a problem, or at least as big a problem, in other > > >organisms. > > > > > >Just a thought... > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > >--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > >> > > >> Merle,<br/><br/>I sometimes wonder if your view of humans is influenced > > >> by your personality or your exposure to Christian-Judaeo thinking. It > > >> certainly seems in accord with ideas like Original Sin! I see things > > >> differently. Those of us alive right now 'owe' it to the fact that every > > >> single one of our ancestors survived to reproductive age and procreated. > > >> We also can see our place in the universe and our origins. We have been > > >> born in a time where there is a teaching (Dharma) that shows us how we > > >> can experience ultimate reality and end our suffering. No other organism > > >> has these 'gifts'. How extraordinary and lucky we > > >> are!<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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