Mike, Thanks for your explanation and references.
I agree that the Zen Patriarchs were well-schooled in the sutras. Whether that knowledge helped them awaken I do not know. Personally I think things like these help you become interested in awakening and perhaps even give you strength and incentive in your quest to awaken. I'm not as sure however actually how pivotal they were to awakening. In any event and as I said earlier they are a good set of guidelines. I am not trying to discourage anyone from following them. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Bill!,<br/><br/>1) Actually, the Noble Eightfold Path (NEP) is divided into 3 > categories: <br/><br/>Ethical Conduct: (right speech; right > livelihood)<br/>Mental Development: (right effort; right mindfulness; right > concentration)<br/>Wisdom: (right intention; right view)<br/><br/>2) On What > is "Right"<br/><br/>"Right" isn't necessarily being judgemental. It's more > like the 'right' in 'seeing things correctly/as they are.<br/><br/>This is > what Buddha said on it:<br/><br/>"It is fitting for you to be perplexed, O > Kalamas, it is fitting for you to be in doubt. Doubt has arisen in you about > a perplexing matter. Come, Kalamas. Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage > of teaching, by hearsay, by a collection of scriptures, by logical reasoning, > by inferential reasoning, by a reflection on reasons, by the acceptance of a > view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because > you think: 'The ascetic is our teacher.' But when you know for > yourselves, 'These things are unwholesome, these things are blamable; these > things are censured by the wise; these things if undertaken and practiced > lead to harm and suffering', then you should abandon them." (Numerical > Discourses of the Buddha, p. 65)<br/><br/>In other words, you will to what is > 'right' by the consequences of your actions. <br/><br/>3) I agree with you > that if you awaken then the NEP is redundant. But Buddha taught us the truth > off 'upaya' (skilful means). I would suggest that for most people the NEP is > far more efficacious towards awakening than just saying "just THIS!" or "Wash > your bowls" as it comprehensively covers all that is needed to develop an > ethical life (something absolutely necessary to stop mental dissonance > affecting meditation), how to practice mindfulness to develop the mental > concentration required to investigate the Three Characteristics > (impermanence, non-self, dukkha), and how both lead to insight wisdom that is > beyond intellectual understanding. <br/><br/>I see no conflict whatsoever in > following the Dharma and practicing Zen. In fact, the Patriarchs studied the > sutras far more than is commonly recognised in Zen. It's the truth behind the > words that is important and not the words > themselves.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
