bill...what fear do you have of the intellect?.. without the human brain and intellect yes based on logic you would not be typing this message to edgar .. merle
Edgar, I'd agree with every word you say below if you would just erase the three-word phrase "the external reality" in the last sentence. Or if you want to keep the word count constant you could substitute the phrase "the intellectual delusion"... ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Math is a subset of logic. Think of software which incorporates both. Would > it work for you if I said that the world of forms is a logico-mathematical > computational system? Human math and logic are approximations of that in > human mental models of reality. They work because they do, in the large part, > accurately model the external reality of the world of forms.... > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 4, 2013, at 7:01 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > Reality is not bound by logic. I'd buy your statement if you said 'math > > words because it accurately models our logically-based perception of > > reality', but I suppose that wouldn't work for you. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > No, no, no. Human math works because it DOES accurately model the actual > > > logic of reality. > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > Mathematics doesn't reveal reality. Mathematics only mirrors the human > > > > intellect. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The thing I like about math as a source of analogies for zen is that > > > > > it > > > > > shows how two different things csn br exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > Linear equations over reals are lines. Lines are linear equations. > > > > > Numbers, points, the constituents drop away as the eternal unity is > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > --Chris > > > > > 301-270-6524 > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013 8:12 AM, <pandabananasock@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Bill!: > > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were looking > > > > > > for an > > > > > > impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads you > > > > > > back > > > > > > to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the model, > > > > > > then > > > > > > we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we realize that > > > > > > both > > > > > > are models of each other and the same, and experience encompasses > > > > > > all -- no > > > > > > need for anything else. Rivers and mountains become rivers and > > > > > > mountains > > > > > > again! > > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect > > > > > > and > > > > > > Karma > > > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three > > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is > > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a > > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of > > > > > > the act itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is, > > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes > > > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different > > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit > > > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present. > > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the > > > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something > > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic > > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good" > > > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have > > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read > > > > > > or are > > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
