Merle,
Yes. Experience is not a delusion. That's all.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Â
> Â anything that is not a delusion for you bill?..merle
>
>
> Â
> I didn't really finish my thought below. It should read:
>
> 'I know math is based on logic. That's all I need to know that it is
> delusional.'
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Edgar,
> >
> > I know math is based on logic. That's all I need to know.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > This appears to be part of your problem in understanding the nature of
> > > the world of forms. The math out there doesn't consist of ideal circles,
> > > squares, and lines as some of the ancient Greeks thought.
> > >
> > > The math our there is like software that continually computes the current
> > > state of reality in the present moment.
> > >
> > > It has nothing to do with idealized geometry...
> > >
> > > Edgar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 11:35 PM, Bill! wrote:
> > >
> > > > Chris,
> > > >
> > > > I fundamentally disagree with you.
> > > >
> > > > Math is no difference than logic or reason. I know many think that math
> > > > represents reality, exists 'out there' and we 'discover it'.
> > > >
> > > > IMO math is just a projection of human intellect. We project it on
> > > > reality the very same way we project all delusions.
> > > >
> > > > In reality there are no integers, no straight line, no circles, etc...
> > > >
> > > > That's the way I see it anyway...
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The math's an analogy.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I will speak up for math by stating math does something different
> > > > > than
> > > > > mirror the small individual's intellect. Perhaps it mirrors the
> > > > > essential
> > > > > uncreated mind :) Like reality it has a certain independence from
> > > > > thoughts
> > > > > and selves. Unlike reality, it's not reality.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > --Chris
> > > > > chris@
> > > > > +1-301-270-6524
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Chris,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mathematics doesn't reveal reality. Mathematics only mirrors the
> > > > > > human
> > > > > > intellect.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The thing I like about math as a source of analogies for zen is
> > > > > > > that it
> > > > > > > shows how two different things csn br exactly the same.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Linear equations over reals are lines. Lines are linear equations.
> > > > > > > Numbers, points, the constituents drop away as the eternal unity
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > seen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > --Chris
> > > > > > > 301-270-6524
> > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013 8:12 AM, <pandabananasock@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill!:
> > > > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were
> > > > > > > > looking for
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the
> > > > > > > > model,
> > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we realize
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > are models of each other and the same, and experience
> > > > > > > > encompasses all
> > > > > > -- no
> > > > > > > > need for anything else. Rivers and mountains become rivers and
> > > > > > mountains
> > > > > > > > again!
> > > > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of
> > > > > > > > Cause-and-Effect and
> > > > > > > > Karma
> > > > > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three
> > > > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is
> > > > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a
> > > > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of
> > > > > > > > the act itself.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is,
> > > > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes
> > > > > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different
> > > > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit
> > > > > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present.
> > > > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the
> > > > > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something
> > > > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic
> > > > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good"
> > > > > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >...Bill!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have
> > > > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups
> > > > > > > > Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have
> > > > > > > > read or
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read
> > > > > > or are
> > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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