as if i did not know this mike..
thanks for sharing ... so a sunset just is however... what sort of a world is it if we cannot understand the concept of beauty... ? merle..a snake with legs is a lizard... Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect and Karma Merle, A sunset just is. In Zen terms, adding adjectives to it is like painting legs on a snake. Beauty is not intrinsic to a sunset. In fact, it doesn't even exist *in itself* when you consider it only appears from the perspective of where you stand to view it. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad bill..is that so?...is that what you have realised or have been told to believe think and feel?.. have you never seen a beautiful sunset ?...merle Merle, Math is judged to be beautiful because it is logical. Yes. Logic is judged to be beautiful because it deceives us into thinking we understand the truth. Truth is not beautiful or not-beautiful. Truth just is. All judgments come from your delusive intellect and self. If you are looking for 'realization' [Buddha Nature?] then you'll have to let go your attachments to such things as self, intellect, truth and beauty. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > mathematics is beautiful because it is logical > > Â logic is beautiful because it is so pointing to the truth > > truth is so beautiful because it points and parts the way for realisation to > take place .. > > merle > > Â > Edgar, > > Reality is not bound by logic. I'd buy your statement if you said 'math > words because it accurately models our logically-based perception of > reality', but I suppose that wouldn't work for you. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > No, no, no. Human math works because it DOES accurately model the actual > > logic of reality. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > Mathematics doesn't reveal reality. Mathematics only mirrors the human > > > intellect. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The thing I like about math as a source of analogies for zen is that it > > > > shows how two different things csn br exactly the same. > > > > > > > > Linear equations over reals are lines. Lines are linear equations. > > > > Numbers, points, the constituents drop away as the eternal unity is > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Chris > > > > 301-270-6524 > > > > On Jul 3, 2013 8:12 AM, <pandabananasock@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Bill!: > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were looking for > > > > > an > > > > > impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D > > > > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads you > > > > > back > > > > > to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the model, > > > > > then > > > > > we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we realize that > > > > > both > > > > > are models of each other and the same, and experience encompasses all > > > > > -- no > > > > > need for anything else. Rivers and mountains become rivers and > > > > > mountains > > > > > again! > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect and > > > > > Karma > > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... > > > > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of > > > > > the act itself. > > > > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is, > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes > > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit > > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present. > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the > > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good" > > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or > > > > > are > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
