Merle, Merle, Merle... You're beginning to sound like Edgar - always projecting your thoughts and ideas on what I say (or don't say in this case) and misquoting me.
I have never said 'don't judge'. I've only said that all judgments are products of your intellect and are therefore deslusive. I never said 'don't judge' or that 'judging is bad'. What I've said that you've interpreted as that is 'judgments are delusions'. As long as you recognize and realize them as delusions, I say 'Go for it!. Judge all you want!'. If however you find you are becoming attached to your judgments (believing they are real or somehow are revealing the 'truth'),and as a result of those attachments they are causing you to suffer, then I do have a suggestion of how to alleviate all that - zazen. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill.... beautiful..your the one saying don't judge..merle > > >  > Merle, > > An example of a perception: a beautiful sunset. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ài see..so an example of pure perception please bill...merle > > > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > All experiences are first-hand. They are sensual. > > > > Perceptions come from your intellect. The way they are constructed is > > learned. > > > > For example some Western subcultures perceive the wearing of the skin and > > head of a dead fox around your neck as beautiful. Some subcultures would > > perceive that as grotesque. It's all learned behavior. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàbill..are you saying you are happy to accept second hand > > > experiences?...merle > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Merle, > > > > > > My intellect judged them to be beautiful. That judgement was probably > > > something I learned to mimic from hearing other people describe things as > > > beautiful. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàbill..how do you know they were beautiful? > > > > clarification please..merle > > > > > > > > I have indeed perceived many beautiful sunsets. > > > > > > > > But have also experienced Just THIS! > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàbill..is that so?...is that > > > > > what you have realised or have been told to believe think and feel?.. > > > > > have you never seen a beautiful sunset ?...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > Math is judged to be beautiful because it is logical. Yes. > > > > > > > > > > Logic is judged to be beautiful because it deceives us into thinking > > > > > we understand the truth. > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not beautiful or not-beautiful. Truth just is. > > > > > > > > > > All judgments come from your delusive intellect and self. If you are > > > > > looking for 'realization' [Buddha Nature?] then you'll have to let go > > > > > your attachments to such things as self, intellect, truth and beauty. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mathematics is beautiful because it is logical > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'ââ∠> > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàlogic is beautiful because it is so pointing > > > > > > to the truth > > > > > > > > > > > > truth is so beautiful because it points and parts the way for > > > > > > realisation to take place .. > > > > > > > > > > > > merle > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'ââ∠> > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > Reality is not bound by logic. I'd buy your statement if you said > > > > > > 'math words because it accurately models our logically-based > > > > > > perception of reality', but I suppose that wouldn't work for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, no. Human math works because it DOES accurately model the > > > > > > > actual logic of reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mathematics doesn't reveal reality. Mathematics only mirrors > > > > > > > > the human intellect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing I like about math as a source of analogies for zen > > > > > > > > > is that it > > > > > > > > > shows how two different things csn br exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Linear equations over reals are lines. Lines are linear > > > > > > > > > equations. > > > > > > > > > Numbers, points, the constituents drop away as the eternal > > > > > > > > > unity is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > --Chris > > > > > > > > > 301-270-6524 > > > > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013 8:12 AM, <pandabananasock@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill!: > > > > > > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were > > > > > > > > > > looking for an > > > > > > > > > > impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it > > > > > > > > > > leads you back > > > > > > > > > > to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of > > > > > > > > > > the model, then > > > > > > > > > > we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we > > > > > > > > > > realize that both > > > > > > > > > > are models of each other and the same, and experience > > > > > > > > > > encompasses all -- no > > > > > > > > > > need for anything else. Rivers and mountains become rivers > > > > > > > > > > and mountains > > > > > > > > > > again! > > > > > > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of > > > > > > > > > > Cause-and-Effect and > > > > > > > > > > Karma > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three > > > > > > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is > > > > > > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a > > > > > > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of > > > > > > > > > > the act itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], > > > > > > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is, > > > > > > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes > > > > > > > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different > > > > > > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit > > > > > > > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present. > > > > > > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the > > > > > > > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something > > > > > > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic > > > > > > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good" > > > > > > > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have > > > > > > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently > > > > > > > > > > have read or are > > > > > > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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