Anders, What an insightful commentary! "Adhering" to a religion and "practicing" it are indeed two very different things. Kathleen (abodhi2b) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anders Honore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Zen Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen in The Middle East?
> > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:30:27 -0400, "AC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > said: > > From: Basil D. Lalli They are important parts of major religions > > (Judaism, Christianity, > > Islam, Hinduism). >> > > > > There is no mystical Christianity that I have ever heard of, especially > > not in any reputable Church. You can find marginal sects in any religion. > > The study of enlightenment is definitely not something that Christians > > are ever taught. > > I agree. However, perhaps your expectations should be re-set regarding > Buddhism because the situation is not all that different for the > majority of those who call themselves Buddhists. In most parts of Asia, > Buddhism is largely a social construct, a vehicle for carrying out old > animistic rituals and serving the needs of the lay people. Enlightenment > doesn't come into the picture much (certainly not for laypeople) - it is > no more than 100 years ago that meditation was quite rare even among > monks in Thailand. Most Buddhists do not practise Buddhism, they just > adhere to it, as do most Christians I imagine. It is unfortunate and > certainly not in accord with what the Buddha taught, but then again, I > am not too sure if conventional Christianity is all that in accord with > what Jesus taught either. > > As already said, I make the distinction between Buddhism, as a practise, > and Buddhism as a conventional institution. It appears that you judge > the former on the standards of the latter, when really there is often > little corelation. To use an extreme example to illustrate the point, it > could be likened to saying that the Crusades embody Jesus' teachings of > loving thy neighbour. > > It is only in the west, for various reasons, that we see Buddhism on a > larger scale being trabsplanted as an actual religion cenereted around > the concept of enlightenment in this lifetime. And even then, these > constitute a minority I believe, compared to the asians who have > migrated and carried their conventional Buddhism with them. No doubt, as > Buddhism takes hold and we begin to see generations who have grown up as > Buddhists, we will see the same indifference towards the concept of > enlightenment in the west. It seems to be human nature that only a > minority will take much interest in it. > > > Salvation comes directly from accepting Jesus as your > > personal Saviour. Why then would a Christian need enlightenment too? > > This was an invention of the Nicean council. It is not the teachings of > Christ. You would be surprised at how one-sided and thoroughly edited > and distorted the teachings of Christ that have come down to us through > conventional Christianity is. Sadly, the religious and political > monopoly of the roman church has effected that. > > > You stated that the Muslim religion has some large sect that is dedicated > > to meditation and enlightenment? Do you know the name and address of that > > Muslim sect? You could do the world a great service by e-mailing that > > information to the Muslims. > > Sufism is not a too marginalised part of islam. I am sure Japan could > have used a call from a Zen Buddhist temple when they had delusions of > grandeur in WWII, and Hitler I am sure could have used a call from his > local priest. > > I am not sure how realistic it is to expect any religion to save the > people from their own folly. > > > > Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
