Dear list, Here we have two people who have never actually experienced Zen in the east, making conclusions and deciding things based on ...well..... really no knowledge at all, yet they both have an opinion.
I have been to Japan, and found that Zen is alive, and vital. That it is a set of integrated systems and ways that allow for anyone who wishes to participate at the level they choose. It is a mistake to say form and substance are mutually exclusive. It might even be argued there can be no substance without form. If one were aware of the real doctrine of Zen, one would understand that Soto zen starts off with a point that we are all already enlightened by Buddha's original enlightenment, and there is no need to "become" something we already are. We only need to uncover and allow our original enlightenment to become manifest. There are a prescribed (prescription...like from a pharmacy_) sets of practices for each role in the structure. A different one for householders than for monks. It is a mistake though to think that monks are out to gain enlightenment, and enlightenment is not available to householders or lay people. This whole discussion is two fools talking about something they do not understand, and have no experience with. Please accord it the respect such a conversation it due. Be Well Fudo AC wrote: > From: "Anders Honore" > Buddhism is largely a social construct, a vehicle > for carrying out old animistic rituals and serving the needs of the lay > people. Enlightenment doesn't come into the picture much (certainly not for > laypeople) - it is no more than 100 years ago that meditation was quite rare > even among monks in Thailand. >> > > So you are saying that D.T. Suzuki and his colleagues basically re-invented > Buddhism and shipped it West? It sounds plausible. So Buddha and his > teachings basically slipped through the cracks as Buddhism became an > institutioanl religion and form took the place of substance? > > Interesting to consider that if Buddhism had not come to the West it would > have dried up and died in the East? I have seen on Discovery Channel, etc. > some of the traditional rites that Buddhist monks are in charge of in > various backwards places. > > Interesting things to consider. How alive is Buddhism in the East? Is it > teaching Meditation and anything regarding enlightenment, etc.? Or is it > just a Religious Service that members attend out of habit? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
