RE: [Zen] Finding a mirror...

[Rod Scholl]

Kathleen,   Yes, meditating is a way to see the path.  But I am asking to see the path's "inevitability."  I don't consider meditation to be any closer to my original face than surfin' porn.  Thus I don't see it as a "deeper level" than intellect, just informatively different.  Must one do an exhaustion of cases?  See it while meditating, while sleeping, while eating, while shoveling dung, to see its inevitability?  Can exhaustion of cases be upaya?   Often one takes the mathmatician's weak pill of "The result follows by Induction" -- and tries to keep it down.  But induction is difficult when one knows so many forms of form, it isn't only a pill to negate self-consciousness, but rather it is trying to swallow the whole universe.     Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Knight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Finding a mirror... My mistake.  I responded without rereading your original question, and apparently remembered it incorrectly.  In this case, I do have a very general answer, but probably an unsatisfactory one.  Insight comes at its deepest level not through intellectual striving, but through emptiness, non-self.  Clear your mind, be in the moment, and you may see.  I know you've heard this before.  ABCs of Zen.  It sounds like a cop-out, but often works. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: Rod Scholl To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:03 PM Subject: RE: [Zen] Finding a mirror... Is there a paradox?  Have I asked an inconsistent question?  Where is the wrong assumption or necessary duality?   Again, How can I show myself that it is "inevitable" that I practice enlightenment for all sentient beings (and thus practice to improve my practice), and I therefore never had an oppurtunity to choose or not choose this path. Thank you all,   I suspect I have the answer, but I wouldn't ask if I didn't question or at least dislike my own answer. Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Knight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] List of Color... Thanks for the insight, Rod.  I'll do the reading in a minute.  I'm not sure I'm ready for more suffering just yet. Meanwhile, no, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you where here in error.  I was trying to clarify your question.  I get it now, and see the paradox.  I don't have an answer for you. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: Rod Scholl To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:38 PM Subject: RE: [Zen] List of Color... Kathleen,   Welcome to the list.  There are many flavors here... and no doubt you will add your own.  There is a recent thread about iflammatory language on this list.  It was a little meandering, but maybe start here (it was right after one person "insulted" another) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/message/5371   For me it culminated here in the ending of the story: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/message/5466 When one of the students asked whether they should regard ourselves as the being like the bodhisattva, Geshe Rabten said bluntly, " You are the cow!"   Happy reading... may you suffer greatly during it... happy reading.   As far as the "inevitability" of being a Buddha, or in this case Bodhissatva, well yes, that assumption is naturally part of the question.  I can't tell, are you asking how to get to that point for yourself, or are you rhetorically recommending that I am here in error?   And yes the on-point questions are delightful, but the others "cause me much humor" also...   Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Knight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Finding a mirror... Rod, I think it is inevitable that practicing your own enlightenment (if you choose to do so) will contribute to the enlightenment of all sentient beings.  That is different than saying that seeking your own enlightenment is inevitable.  Where did you read/hear that?  Have I misunderstood you?  It's a delight, by the way, to discuss an on-point question. Kathleen    Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Your use of Yahoo! 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