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Kathleen,
I'm
glad you liked the induction parallel.
As a
side note -- i read this once in high-school, when I scoffed at engineers and
studied physics.
Physicist:
3 is a
prime
5 is a
prime
7 is a
prime
9
experimental error
11 is
a prime
13 is
a prime...
Matmatician:
3 is a
prime
5 is a
prime
7 is a
prime
the
result follows by induction...
Engineer:
3 is a
prime
5 is a
prime
7 is a
prime
9 is a
prime
11 is
a prime...
Is
that the funniest thing ever or what...
Rod Scholl
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Knight
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004
2:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zen]
Finding a mirror...
Wow. Do you really mean it when you say you don't
think meditation brings you any closer to your original face than porn?! I
must not be familiar with the right porn sites.
I guess I don't see the distinction between seeing the
path, and seeing its inevitability, if indeed its inevitability is a truth for
you. My own study and practice of Zen is only two years old, and that
inevitability is not something I have experienced at this point. The path
is. Perhaps it is my feeble mathematician's mind. That's what I
taught for 13 years. Always hated induction, though. It's bad enough
in philosophy, but I always hoped (in vain) that math would have more
substance. Of course, that was before Zen...
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:29
PM
Subject: RE: [Zen] Finding a
mirror...
Kathleen,
Yes,
meditating is a way to see the path. But I am asking to see the path's
"inevitability." I don't consider meditation to be any closer to my
original face than surfin' porn. Thus I don't see it as a "deeper level"
than intellect, just informatively different. Must one do an exhaustion
of cases? See it while meditating, while sleeping, while eating, while
shoveling dung, to see its inevitability? Can exhaustion of cases be
upaya?
Often one takes the mathmatician's weak pill of
"The result follows by Induction" -- and tries to keep it down. But
induction is difficult when one knows so many forms of form, it isn't only a
pill to negate self-consciousness, but rather it is trying to swallow the
whole universe.
Rod Scholl
My mistake. I responded without rereading your
original question, and apparently remembered it incorrectly. In this
case, I do have a very general answer, but probably an unsatisfactory
one. Insight comes at its deepest level not through intellectual
striving, but through emptiness, non-self. Clear your mind, be in the
moment, and you may see. I know you've heard this before. ABCs of
Zen. It sounds like a cop-out, but often works.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:03
PM
Subject: RE: [Zen] Finding a
mirror...
Is
there a paradox? Have I asked an inconsistent question? Where is
the wrong assumption or necessary duality?
Again,
How
can I show myself that it is "inevitable" that I practice enlightenment for
all sentient beings (and thus practice to improve my practice), and I
therefore never had an oppurtunity to choose or not choose this
path.
Thank you all,
I
suspect I have the answer, but I wouldn't ask if I didn't question or at
least dislike my own answer.
Rod Scholl
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen
Knight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday,
September 23, 2004 1:48 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zen] List of
Color...
Thanks for the insight, Rod. I'll do the reading
in a minute. I'm not sure I'm ready for more suffering just
yet.
Meanwhile, no, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that
you where here in error. I was trying to clarify your question.
I get it now, and see the paradox. I don't have an answer for
you.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004
1:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Zen] List of
Color...
Kathleen,
Welcome to the list. There are many flavors
here... and no doubt you will add your own. There is a recent
thread about iflammatory language on this list. It was a little
meandering, but maybe start here (it was right after one person "insulted"
another)
For me it culminated here in the ending of the
story:
When
one of the students asked whether they should regard ourselves as
the
being like the bodhisattva, Geshe Rabten said bluntly, " You are
the
cow!"
Happy
reading... may you suffer greatly during it... happy
reading.
As far as the
"inevitability" of being a Buddha, or in this case Bodhissatva, well yes,
that assumption is naturally part of the question. I can't tell, are
you asking how to get to that point for yourself, or are you rhetorically
recommending that I am here in error?
And yes the
on-point questions are delightful, but the others "cause me much humor"
also...
Rod Scholl
Rod,
I think it is inevitable that practicing your own
enlightenment (if you choose to do so) will contribute to the
enlightenment of all sentient beings. That is different than saying
that seeking your own enlightenment is inevitable. Where did you
read/hear that? Have I misunderstood you? It's a delight, by
the way, to discuss an on-point question.
Kathleen
Noble Eightfold Path: Right
View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort,
Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention,
Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right
Concentration, Right Livelihood
Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right
Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right
Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention,
Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right
Concentration, Right Livelihood
Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right
Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness,
Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
Noble
Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action,
Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
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