--- In [email protected], Infernal Elk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "understand" is an intersting word, here. to me, there seem to be > different types of experiences & knowledge which we use the word > "understand" for. one kind "understand" is the ability to identify a > situation or event or concept (or whatever) enough to be able to > articulate it in words. but that is not always enough, it seems. i > sense that there is another kind of "understand". >
i totally agree. Mack > i guess the best analogy is how we know how to ride a bicycle. most > of us know how to do this, i think. it's a bodily sense kind of > knowledge. it is hard to "explain". we might be able to explain it > in terms of inner-ear balance & motor coordination & write volumes of > learned texts on conservation of angular momentum, inertia, & center > of gravity as well. those are all involved in riding a bicycle (and > more). but they don't really convey what riding a bicycle is about, > do they? & for all we could read (& think, or imagine even) about > riding a bicycle, none of it helps to actually learn to ride the > thing. we just have to do it until we "get it". & then we find once > we "get" how to ride the thing, all that other physics & physiology & > whatever is irrelevant. we just ride the thing. > > when i consider & experience "anxious feelings" (or in my case, since > i suffer from clinical depression, overhwelming feelings of futility & > doom) i try to "understand" the cause. sure, i can even get logical > about a situation; see its history; see my own conditioning from > childhood (or from wherever)... there are times i have a great clarity > about the presumed causes of the "anxious feeling" & the emotional > mechanisms of why i react or feel the way i do in a situation. > > but i find that this "understanding", so to speak, does not change > anything, really. it doesn't dissipate the "anxiety" or depression at > all. > i have also experienced what your saying here and the only thing i can come up with is that i havent arrived at the core of the problem within. i may, at times think i have but in actuality i havent. i think we deceive ourselves and so the struggle continues. maybe once we stop deceiving ourselves the pain will stop. Mack > it takes effort to heal from depressive modes of thinking & feeling. > it is a strange kind of effort... understanding & thinking has its > role but in the end, when i see myself feeling & behaving differently, > i cannot explain the healing process at all. it is very mysterious. > & yet i know that, slowly, i am healing from these episodes & "anxious > feelings". > > in the same way i think our practice is much like this mystery. yes, > there is a vast intellectual & verbal infrastructure accumulated over > thousands of years, the sutras & commentaries... but in the end they > are much like the tomes on riding a bicycle; they describe everything > about it but cannot convey the actual sense or ability to ride the > thing. it is probably necessary to understand these to fully deepen > our experience. but in themselves, i am not sure they can help us > ride the bicycle of our lives. i agree, nobody can walk the path for us we must do it ourselves but i also believe God helps us if we truly want it. Mack > > perhaps i am wrong, but i see the process of Zen practice much the > same way i am experiencing healing from clinical depression. it is > slow. it requires effort. it requires guidance. things change & > happen & we sense the difference in our bodies, even try to describe > it. but in the end it is a mysterious process that can be described, > but the description itself falls short, & does not convey the freedom > of change -- in my case, the freedom from being bound by depressive > emotional loops. the depressive impulses don't really > "leave"... rather i experience it as being something i sense & > acknowledge & then do nothing with. > > & mack, i am not going to tell you "good reasons" or *any* reason why > one could get depressed. i will say again that you should consider > yourself to be blessed & give my sincere wish that you never > experience it at all. > > - elk i did not intend to ruffle any feathers on the matter, only to see what responses would ensue. my apologies to anyone i offended. Mack ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WwRTUD/SOnJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
