> Just read over Elder Nelson's talk when it comes out in the
> Ensign. I myself have a difficult time seeing how people can
> still, with all due respect, "not get it" after hearing this talk.

And I have a difficult time seeing why people are so eager to twist an 
apostle's words into supporting their political tastes, rather than try 
to glean the truth and wisdom he was teaching. I suppose we both should 
work on our ability to understand.

> He said "as a CHURCH we should renounce war" and emphasized that
> it would be the descendants of Ishmael and Jacob who would be the
> peacemakers in the region.

And therefore...?

> There can be nothing BUT a pacifist LDS.

>From The American Heritage Dictionary (1985):

     1. The belief that disputes between nations should and can be
     settled peacefully.
     2a. Opposition to war or violence as a means of resolving
     b. Such opposition demonstrated by refusal to participate in
     military action.

#1 does partially apply to Saints, of course, but it is so obvious that 
even the most hawk-like Saint agrees that disputes *should* be settled 
peacefully. Disputes involving aggression by enemies against you 
obviously *cannot* be settled peacefully. Both parts of definition 2 are 

>From Merriam-Webster's online (www.m-w.com):

     Main Entry: pac·i·fism 
     Pronunciation: 'pa-s&-"fi-z&m
     Function: noun
     Etymology: French pacifisme, from pacifique pacific
     Date: 1902
     1 : opposition to war or violence as a means of settling
     disputes; specifically : refusal to bear arms on moral or
     religious grounds
     2 : an attitude or policy of nonresistance

Neither of these definitions describes the Church's position.

The definion at www.dictionary.com is word-for-word identical to that of 
the American Heritage definition quoted above.

So you're wrong, Marc. Mormons are *not* pacifist, or at least they 
should not be. Quite the contrary.


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