Toward the laudable goal of establishing family traditions that
work, shall I presume that "society" and "government" will soon
insist on repealing what are essentially "divorce on demand"
statutes?  I agree that the ideal model is family with a father
and a mother, but it certainly is not the only model that works.
Nor are "alternative workable models" recent phenomena. They have
been with us as long as I can remember.  For instance, most, if
not all, polygamous family models were quite non-traditional.
Children in such families often only had passing relationships
with their fathers.  Often two or more mothers occupied the same
home.  Often children from different mothers were raised with
deep loyalties to their biological mothers as well as other
"moms" in the household. As I practical matter, would we not be
better off finding ways to support all families, no matter their

Ron Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:34 AM
>Subject: RE: [ZION] Gay marriage is wrong
>Marriage has shown itself to be a core ideal for
>society's strength and
>longevity. Society (read: government) therefore has a
>keen interest in
>ensuring marriage is done in a manner that promotes a
>strong and safe
>society; normally built upon traditions that work.
>Ron Scott wrote:
>> Gary:
>> Some of us  regard marriage as a religious blessing,
>a religious
>> covenant.  Some us, therefore, think the government has no
>> business getting itself involved in a religious matter -- like
>> determining what constitutes a "marriage."
>> The government ought to stick to defining what kinds
>of "unions"
>> and "partnerships" it allow (I assume there are many
>> variations on themes, ones that ought to be defined
>as permitted
>> by law).  Had it done that -- had it taken a one-size fits all
>> approach and done it actively, rather than
>reactively, one could
>> argue that the pressure we've witness over the past few months
>> would not have been necessary.  Instead, the government, in
>> essence, refused to confront the matter until forced.
>> Had it actively addressed the matter years ago, we may have
>> gotten legislation on the books that would be
>satisfying to most,
>> if not all. Such legislation would have resolved the
>concerns of
>> the Massachusetts couples that sued the state, a lawsuit which
>> reached the Commonwealth's Supreme Judicial Court.
>> Two final thoughts: I would imagine it's not lost on
>you that the
>> proposed Constitutional Amendment defines marriage as a union
>> between one man and one woman.  I trust it's also not
>lost on you
>> that, should the amendment pass, it will, in essence,  confirm
>> the illegality of the marriages of several of my
>ancestors.  It
>> will render people like me descendants of illegitimate
>> relationships, the offspring of bastard children.
>Where will the
>> Church be should, at some point down the road, the Lord order
>> that polygamy be reinstituted? I realize this is
>> there is a darned important principle in play here,
>one that too
>> many of us are ignoring.
>> RBS
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:08 PM
>> >Subject: [ZION] Gay marriage is wrong
>> >
>> >
>> >Here is an awesome article by Thomas Sowell on why Gay
>> >marriage movement
>> >is wrong.
>> >Gary
>> >
>> >
>> >'Gay marriage' confusions
>> >Thomas Sowell (archive)
>> >
>> >March 9, 2004
>> >
>> >Few issues have produced as much confused thinking as
>> >the "gay marriage"
>> >issue.
>> >
>> >There is, for example, the argument that the government
>> >has no business
>> >getting involved with marriage in the first place. That
>> >is a personal
>> >relation, the argument goes.
>> >
>> >Love affairs are personal relations. Marriage is a
>> >legal relation. To
>> >say that government should not get involved in legal
>> >relations is to say
>> >that government has no business governing.
>> >
>> >Homosexuals were on their strongest ground when they
>> >said that what
>> >happens between "consenting adults" in private is none of the
>> >government's business. But now gay activists are taking
>> >the opposite
>> >view, that it is government's business -- and that
>> >government has an
>> >obligation to give its approval.
>> >
>> >Then there are the strained analogies with the civil
>> >rights struggles of
>> >the 1960s. Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King challenged
>> >the racial laws
>> >of their time. So, the argument goes, what is wrong
>> >with Massachusetts
>> >judges and the mayor of San Francisco challenging laws
>> >that they
>> >consider unjust today?
>> >
>> >First of all, Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King were
>> >private citizens
>> >and they did not put themselves above the law. On the
>> >contrary, they
>> >submitted to arrest in order to gain the public support
>> >needed to change
>> >the laws.
>> >
>> >As private citizens, neither Mrs. Parks nor Dr. King
>> >wielded the power
>> >of government. Their situation was very different from
>> >that of public
>> >officials who use the power delegated to them through
>> >the framework of
>> >law to betray that framework itself, which they swore
>> >to uphold as a
>> >condition of receiving their power.
>> >
>> >The real analogy would be to Governor George Wallace,
>> >who defied the law
>> >by trying to prevent black students from being
>enrolled in the
>> >University of Alabama under a court order.
>> >
>> >After Wallace was no longer governor, he was within his
>> >rights to argue
>> >for racial segregation, just as civil rights leaders
>> >argued against it.
>> >But, using the powers of his office as governor to defy
>> >the law was a
>> >violation of his oath.
>> >
>> >If judges of the Massachusetts Supreme Court or the
>> >mayor of San
>> >Francisco want to resign their jobs and start
>> >advocating gay marriage,
>> >they have every right to do so. But that is wholly
>> >different from using
>> >the authority delegated to them under the law to
>> >subvert the law.
>> >
>> >Gay rights activists argue that activist judges have
>> >overturned unjust
>> >laws in the past and that society is better off for it.
>> >The argument
>> >that some good has come from some unlawful acts in the
>> >past is hardly a
>> >basis for accepting unlawful acts in general.
>> >
>> >If you only want to accept particular unlawful acts
>> >that you agree with,
>> >then of course others will have other unlawful acts
>> >that they agree
>> >with. Considering how many different groups have how
>> >many different sets
>> >of values, that road leads to anarchy.
>> >
>> >Have we not seen enough anarchy in Haiti, Rwanda and
>> >other places to
>> >know not to go there?
>> >
>> >The last refuge of the gay marriage advocates is that
>> >this is an issue
>> >of equal rights. But marriage is not an individual
>> >right. Otherwise, why
>> >limit marriage to unions of two people instead of three
>> >or four or five?
>> >Why limit it to adult humans, if some want to be united
>> >with others of
>> >various ages, sexes and species?
>> >
>> >Marriage is a social contract because the issues
>> >involved go beyond the
>> >particular individuals. Unions of a man and a woman
>> >produce the future
>> >generations on whom the fate of the whole society
>> >depends. Society has
>> >something to say about that.
>> >
>> >Even at the individual level, men and women have different
>> >circumstances, if only from the fact that women have
>> >babies and men do
>> >not. These and other asymmetries in the positions of
>> >women and men
>> >justify long-term legal arrangements to enable society
>> >to keep this
>> >asymmetrical relationship viable -- for society's sake.
>> >
>> >Neither of these considerations applies to unions where
>> >the people are
>> >of the same sex.
>> >
>> >Centuries of experience in trying to cope with the
>> >asymmetries of
>> >marriage have built up a large body of laws and
>> >practices geared to that
>> >particular legal relationship. To then transfer all of
>> >that to another
>> >relationship that was not contemplated when these laws
>> >were passed is to
>> >make rhetoric more important than reality.
>> >
>> >2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
>> >
>> >Gerald (Gary) Smith
>> >geraldsmith@
>> >
>> >
>> >////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>> >//////////////////////
>> >///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
>> >///      ///
>> >////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>> >/////////////////////
>> --
>Gerald (Gary) Smith
>///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
>///      ///

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