Lennart Regebro wrote:
If Plone works for product listing on plone.org, it should work for
product listing on zope.org.

Now, zope.org does much more than that, but if we combine the above
thought, with the earlier thought of splitting into new subsites that
one by one get "approved" by Zope Foundation, that ain't a problem.

Well said. We need to break the big problem into smaller problems that don't require transient volunteers to sign up for eating an elephant. :^)

Along these lines, I think stabilizing the current dung heap should be *one of* the projects. It's odd that we could make things better *right now*, and smart people are trying to help, but others don't want them to. It doesn't have to be zero sum.

So what do we need?

1. A project manager.
2. A server to put this on.

This is probably the most important step, to improve the collaboration. Offers have been made in the past by Zope hosters. I bet we could get one, in exchange for the same credits given currently on zope.org.

3. A design.

Yep.

Then we can put up a products.something.foo, and try to get people to
register their products there instead of on zope.org, and if people
like it enough, step 5:

6. ZF can do a switcheroo so that the products on zope.org point to
the new server, as products.zope.org.

That's one part finished for a new zope.org. One of the biggest ones,
and not particularily painful even.

Yes, there is two steps missing:

4. Wait for ZF to become reality.

I've seen this mentioned a number of times. I'm concerned about the effect it might have. I remember in 2003, we had spent months waiting on officialdom to legal things and were told:

  "I suspect this will be finished by the end of next week."

  http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-web/2003-March/002509.html

"One week" turned into 5 months. Meanwhile, all the volunteer enthusiasm vanished. I feel the ZF is becoming that same kind of "Wait for the adults to weigh in" vibe.

Everybody says that the software of zope.org is the culprit. Geoff is a core contributor to that software, a board member of its foundation, and the author of the caching integration to make it go fast. He's not proposing a new system. He's proposing to improve the status quo, without excluding other initiatives.

Having the existing site suck less, on the way to having a new non-Plone plan, would be great. Geoff has said: "I'll do it." In my book, he should get encouragement.

--Paul

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