Lennart Regebro wrote:
On 3/1/06, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

What's your point? That we shouldn't plan?  That we shouldn't
have a common vision for where we're going, or communicate that

Well, not neccesarily. Things change, and the plan for the future has
not always been the same. The important part is that we work in the
same direction.

How is that possible if we don't communicate the vision?  Are you
suggesting a Zope Underground that knows the vision but keeps it secret
to avoid making people nervous? ;)

I think this discusson has been fruitful, and useful, but we don't
need to get consensus on a plan yet,

Then how are we going to work on the plan?

> because no matter what the plan
is, the next few steps are the same: Make Zope2+Five use more and more
Zope3 technologies, making the transition smaller. That plan is good
at least until July, and probably until december.

If the plan is to make make Zope 3 a replacement for Zope 2 or
even to make them converge, then Zope 3 needs a lot of work
that wouldn't be warrented otherwise.

Commiting to a vision too soon may mean we have to change the vision,
which as we have seen, is not an easy communication task to do.

There's nothing wrong with changing the vision as long as it
makes sense to do so.  Sometimes, you change where you want to
go based on what you've learned or on a changing environment.

So I suggest we commit to the vision of making Zope2 and Zope3 more
similar, for the moment,

That implies more work than you realize.  You seem to think that
making Zope 2 and Zope 3 similar only requires changes to Zope 2.
That is not true. It would require a lot of changes to Zope 3 too,
changes that I don't think there's a lot of appetite for at this point.

> and continue discussing the future for while
more, before we commit to a proper vision. The vision we have now may
be fluffy and slightly different,  but at least we are not pulling in
different directions, and that means it's not too fluffy, yet.

I think a lack of a realistic vision means that we are pulling in
different directions.  I think this is causing a lot of harm.


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