Hi Stephan,

On Monday 20 March 2006 13:50, Tres Seaver wrote:
So *don't use ZCML*;  use Python:  there is literally nothing which can
be done in ZCML which cannot be done in Python.  I wish that folks who
don't like / need ZCML would quit trying to dictate how the rest of us
use ZCML.

I agree with this sentiment. I really hate where ZCML is going. I tend to like ZCML as an overview for the functionality of a package, so the already simplified versions of the adapter and utility directive make ZCML much less useful to me. And Philipp's quest to effectively removing all nested directives disturbs me even more. I like the nesting; it groups common things together and saves some typing. I also tend to like writing new ZCML directives; it's easy.

It's time to me for writing a statement about this before I start going a own way.

After 3 years of daily development with Zope3, I'm sure the hardest part in Zope3 is to get a big picture from a application. A simplfication in ZCML and loose the informative character is really contra productive for this.

This means to me that it becomes harder to read and understand the application at all. Of corse each single component and it's reagistration will be simpler with the new simplification, but that's not truh for the concept at all if this will end in 10 interface, 5 adapter and 3 utility registrations!

After reflect the simplification in some of our applications the ZCML looks like a big group of pinguin. Each of them look exactly the same,
no visual sugar in it ;-)

I don't like to go in the following direction with ZCML:






For me it's defently easier to understand and get the big picture of a application if we have ZCML directives like:




The situation right now is so ugly for me that I think we should add back the higher level ZCML directives again. Probably we should do that in a new "higher level" namespae so everyone could decide which concept he likes to use.

Is somebody interested to work on a higher level ZCML directive namespace and help to support them?

My Fazit is;

It's important to have informative sugger in a configuration language like ZCML. Otherwise it get reduced to somewhat useless that I will hate to write but have to. The next step will probably be to move the configuration to pyhton at all. And then we really lose the component aspect and get back hardcoded concepts where everybody has to copy/past and customize. That's not the way I will go in the future!

What do you think? Are I'm wrong?

Roger Ineichen

Having said this, I realize I am in the minority. Thus I will make some concessions, but I am not going to just agree with everything.


Roger Ineichen
Projekt01 GmbH
Boesch 65
6331 H├╝nenberg
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