At 12:52 PM -0700 11/30/05, Duncan McGreggor wrote:
Do you have a zope2 background? With a background in zope2 and twisted, I found z3 very easy (delightful) to learn. My first z3 site was done from scratch, with graphic design, custom user-editable content in under 3 weeks. I was an instant z3 fan.


I did spend some time trying out Zope 2 a couple of years ago, but didn't get very far past the basics. That was before I had really gotten into Python. What got me interested in Z3 was that our local Python user group (http://www.python.org/dfw) has been recently looking at a variety of Python web frameworks. Based on reading parts of Stephan Richter's Zope 3 Developer's Guide, I got the impression that Zope 3 was the most mature and featureful available. The intros to chapters 7 and 8 had some inspiring bits about the kind of experience and thinking went into the architecture of Zope 3.

We had some meetings involving getting Zope 3 up and running on Ubuntu, the MessageBoard tutorial, etc. After awhile, I realized that we really should have started with the Philikon book first (Web Component Development with Zope 3), because it spent more time explaining the basics (like TAL and METAL, for example). I'm still going back and forth between the two books as I continue learning Zope 3.

Btw, I found that the cheapest place to buy both Zope 3 books is Nerdbooks.com. I'm a bit biased, because Nerdbooks provides a meeting space for the DFW Python user's group, and I want to promote Nerdbooks as much as possible due to their generosity in hosting user groups in the Dallas area, as well as the way they provide an unusual combination of a vast technical book selection with the lowest prices around (lower than Amazon by a good bit).

As for the easiness and delightfulness of learning Zope 3, that's not the general perception in our Python user group, and clearly a big part of the Python community is diverted into other frameworks such as Django, TurboGears, and TwistedWeb. How to improve the perception of Zope 3 could probably be a separate discussion thread unto itself. I favor the notion of making a separate Zope 3 site, or at least clearing out the old, outdated documentation at the current site. For a newbie, it's hard to tell what's current and what's outdated.

At 12:33 PM -0700 11/30/05, Duncan McGreggor wrote:
As per your other email, the reason you had problems was because your z3 instance was already running. If you are not using ZEO, you need to stop z3 in order to gain access to the ZODB.

Have you seen Benji's quick start guide? In addition to Stephan Richter's book, you ought to read Philipp von Weitershausen's book too. As of zope3.1, it's a little out of date, but only in a few areas. The conceptual explanations and careful, hands-on, examples-based approach is pure gold. His and Stephan's book are the perfect couple ;-)

Actually, I totally missed Benji's "Zope 3 Quick Start Guide" (<http://www.benjiyork.com/quick_start/>). I had seen mention of it on the list, but I somehow got it mixed up with "Zope 3 in 30 Minutes" <http://zissue.berlios.de/z3/Zope3In30Minutes.html>.



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