I take the point that I approached this issue from the wrong standpoint and apologise for that. This was perhaps born out of a little frustration. I was never rude though. Also I feel that Plone has usabillity which sits above it's prettyness. It is a well designed interface graphically but also has very strong non graphical usability elements.

On 2/10/06, Lennart Regebro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 2/10/06, michael nt milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've spoken to many people on various lists and can confirm the feeling
> about usability on the ZMI etc. You call them 'halfwits'. That puts you on
> rather high ground and this attitude is obviously part of the problem.

1. By complaining about something that a lot of people do not find any
problem with, YOU put yourself on a rather high ground compared to the
people here who both created and use it.

Suggestion: Don't complain about the software that you want help with,
because it makes the people who wrote it pissed off. Quite simple,

2. I have myself held courses in how to use a CMS (EasyPublisher)
where you did most everything through the ZMI for people with bother
very little computer experience and a lot, and it was never a big
usebility problem. That the ZMI has big useability problems is simply
not true. You also claim that there are lot of people complainng that
the ZMI has useability problems. Well, we are on all those
mailing-lists, unless you have found some secret mailing lists for
people who don't like Zope, so we know that there is in fact NOT a lot
of complaints about this.
When you claim that there are loads of people who say so, when there
obviously isn't undermines your credbility and inclines people to not
take you seriously.

Suggestion: Don't make up facts and statements that is not true, don't
invent people that doesn't exist. Don't say that X is generally
accepted as a fact when it isn't. If you do that, people will call you
a liar, and you don't want that.

(Oh, and if you want an explanation about why a few people don't find
the ZMI useable, it's because it's not "pretty", don't have flash
graphics and such. People often confuse "prettyness" with
"useability". ZMI is basic and well, ugly. It is however quite
consistent and useable.)

And the same goes for Zopes access control. It is in no way
complicated or hard to understand. By starting early in the discussion
with complaining about it, you just make people pissed off and get the
discussion running away in the wrong direction.  Don't do that.

> How come Plone's interface is so useable and a delight to work with? How was
> that financed?

Because it's pretty? :-)

Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo     http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management     http://www.cps-project.org/

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