Ed, you seem to be taking the "memory as synaptic weight modification" model a bit too seriously ... it's really just a simplified formal model that captures a certain percentage of what goes on in the brain (and no one knows how much)
This is why I shy away from brain-modeling approaches to AGI ... we just don't know how the brain works yet... ben g On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don' really see how a change in gene expression in the nucleus of a neuron > caused by methylation could store long term memories, since most neural > network models store all most all their information in the location and > differentiation of they synapses. > > How is information in a neural net stored by making what would appear to be > only neuron-wide behaviors? Such a global change might be valuable for > signally that a record of recent events in the neuron at a give brief period > of time, should be stored, but it would not appear to actually keep them > stored over a long period of time. > > I think the article failed to mention an important part of the theory of > what is going on. > > Ed Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terren Suydam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:16 PM > To: agi@v2.listbox.com > Subject: RE: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?) > > > Ed, > > That's a good point about synapses, but perhaps the methylation just affects > the neuron's output, e.g., the targeted genes express proteins that only > find a functional role in the axon. > > Terren > > --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Richard, >> >> The role played by the epigenome in genetics actually does >> have a slightly >> Lamarckian tinge. Nova had a show saying that when >> identical twins are born >> their epigenomes are very similar, but that as they age >> their epigenomes >> start to differ more an more, and that certain behaviors >> like drinking or >> smoking can increase the rate at which such changes take >> place. >> >> What I didn't understand about the article you linked >> to is that it appears >> they are changing the epigenome to change the expression of >> DNA, but as far >> as I know DNA only appears in the nucleus (with the >> exception of >> mitochondirial DNA), and thus would appear to affect the >> cell as a whole, >> and thus not be good at differentially affecting the >> strengths of different >> synapses --- as would presumably be required for most >> neuronal memory --- >> unless the nuclear DNA had some sort of mapping to >> individual synapses, or >> unless local changes to mitochondrial DNA, near a synapse >> are involved. The >> article does not appear to shed in any light on this issue >> of how changes in >> the expression of DNA would affect learning at the synapse >> level, where most >> people think it occurs. >> >> Ed Porter >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Loosemore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:12 AM >> To: agi@v2.listbox.com >> Subject: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?) >> >> >> Am I right in thinking that what these people: >> >> > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026845.000-memories-may-be-stored-on >> -your-dna.html >> >> >> are saying is that memories can be stored as changes in the >> DNA inside >> neurons? >> >> If so, that would upset a few apple carts. >> >> Would it mean that memories (including cultural >> adaptations) could be >> passed from mother to child? >> >> Implication for neuroscientists proposing to build a WBE >> (whole brain >> emulation): the resolution you need may now have to >> include all the DNA >> in every neuron. Any bets on when they will have the >> resolution to do that? >> >> >> >> Richard Loosemore >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I intend to live forever, or die trying." -- Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
