The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 697 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: For you F1 fans out there Re: For you F1 fans out there Re: For you F1 fans out there Re: For you F1 fans out there Alpina B5 Re: Alpina B5 Re: Jeremy Clarkson on the new M5 WTB: S50 Injectors Re: WTB: S50 Injectors My friend's amusing comments about new BMWs and the E39 M5 (part 2 of 2) Longish, but a good read - My friend's amusing comments about new BMWs and the E39 M5 (part 1 of 2)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:24:49 -0400 From: CsWs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: BMW List <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: For you F1 fans out there Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 6/16/05, Dennis Liu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Max Mosely announces proposed dramatic rule changes for 2008! > > http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/17615/ Well if Good Ole Max gets this thru F1 will have become CART or IRL. Is there really a need for another SPEC pro series? What will be the point of watching F1 cars go around the tracks of the world when CART or IRL could do the same now? < sarcasm> Look at the massive crowds they draw at most races in the US </sarcasm> I fear F1 is dieing the same death as open wheel racing did in the US -- Karl #747KP http://www.elephantmotorsports.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:37:07 -0400 From: "Gaudio, Stefano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: For you F1 fans out there Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I love F1, I have been watching it since I was a little kid, and I know that the $$$ involved got crazier every year so something must be done but... I welcome changes that will increase the time drivers fight for positions but F1 represents the pinnacle of motorsport partially because of the technology an F1 car has. No other road-racing car will accelerate brake or handle as well, that's what makes it F1. Watching a Formula BMW or Formula Mazda race will show loads more of passing but there is no way it will remotely compare to F1. Cutting costs? Yes. Get rid of the UBER Technology? NO! Sure reduce the aero and increase mechanical grip so to facilitate passing but don't freeze progress. How about enforcing a limit on budget, $50-$100 million/year (Top 5 teams spend way more...) and let each team decide for themselves? This way between the budget limitations and the loss of aero will see more passing and Dennis maybe you'll even see a manual gearbox in there ;-) Mandatory BMW content: BMW may start their own F1 team in 2006! Good luck Williams!!! Stefano '98 M3 with a lot less technology than a F1 and A LOT SLOWER!!! :-) Original message:------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:32:50 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW List" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>, "'911/993/996'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ferrari List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: For you F1 fans out there Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Max Mosely announces proposed dramatic rule changes for 2008! http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/17615/ Wow. At first blush, I must say, I *love* much of it. Having spec electronics, not so much, but getting rid of semi-auto gearboxes, reducing aero grip, and going to spec tires are all really GOOD things. The main criterion is: "What will produce better RACING?"!!! Of course, I don't want F1 to be NASCAR-IZED, nor even CART-ized, but the spending today is getting ridiculous, and the quality of the RACING has been going downhill for years. I *love* the thought of going back to manual gearboxes and getting rid of traction control and such - this way, it becomes MUCH more **DRIVER** oriented. As I've argued before, I think getting rid of semi-auto gearboxes makes things MUCH more interesting. The reason that F1 hadn't banned semi-auto gearboxes (and thereby allow it to completely ban traction control!) is because missed shifts = $$$$ spent replacing engines. Nowadays, a driver can concentrate on keeping the line and preventing himself from being passed, while just using his thumb to trigger the appropriate set of shifts for the upcoming order. A lot different from having to go from fifth down to second while braking 100% with Senna 6 inches behind your rear wing. A couple of years ago, I read a book about Ferrari F1, wherein Michele Alboreto was quoted as saying something along the lines of him missing the days of manual shifting gearboxes. Because, if you were pressuring someone from behind, he was distracted enough in thinking to protect the line that he might miss a shift, thereby allowing you to make the pass. As pointed out, this was one reason why Ayrton Senna was such a phenonmenal success - he was a master of passing. You'd be driving along, look into your mirror, and see that yellow and green helmet in that orange and white McLaren, and you'd think, ohmigod, I've got Senna right behind me, what do I do, then you'd miss a shift and he'd be by in a blast. I used to LOVE watching Senna or Mansell completely aggravating someone in front until that person screwed up and allowed them by. Can you imagine how, say, the new young jocks of F1 today would feel if they saw Michael's helmet in their mirrors? Can't just hit a button anymore, but would have to balance the clutch and gearbox.... It's just too EASY for the F1 driver of today (no doubt they are still the best in the world at what they do, but I still think it's less difficult than it was 15 years ago). If today's F1 pilot had to manually shift a six(or more)-speed gearbox, and operate a clutch, while also applying brake, throttle and steering, wouldn't that make for a more INTERESTING SHOW? No doubt that semi-auto boxes make for FASTER F1 cars, but we want better RACING! The other rule changes are also good. Go back to slicks and get rid of downforce? YES! I've often argued that we needed to run full slicks while killing aero, to force reliance more on mechanical grip rather than aero grip, to allow more passing. And I've suggest adding starters before. I was thrilled to see an F1 driver actually USE the reverse gear (required) at the Monaco race (when traffic was stacked up at the hairpin); imagine a driver stalling a car after spinning off, and being able to restart and rejoin? Awesome. I doubt very much that these rules will be adopted wholesale, but if costs do go down, and if the "show" gets better, I think we'd all be in agreement that this result would be great. Huzzah! vty, --Dennis------------------------ _____________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing, disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. _____________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:55:13 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: For you F1 fans out there Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Stefano replied: >I welcome changes that will increase the time drivers fight for positions but F1 represents the pinnacle of motorsport partially because of the technology an F1 car has. >No other road-racing car will accelerate brake or handle as well, that's what makes it F1. >Watching a Formula BMW or Formula Mazda race will show loads more of passing but there is no way it will remotely compare to F1. >Cutting costs? Yes. Get rid of the UBER Technology? NO! Sure reduce the aero and increase mechanical grip so to facilitate passing but don't freeze progress. >How about enforcing a limit on budget, $50-$100 million/year (Top 5 teams spend way more...) and let each team decide for themselves? <snip> =============== Aha! :-) Stefano, I've heard that rationale a lot, and may have even used it myself more than once. But here's the problem - if EVERYONE is using ultra-expensive carbon fiber brakes, for example, then everyone has equal braking power -> BUT, everyone is still paying $5 skillion dollars for their brakes. If everyone was required to use cast-iron brakes, well, the DIFFERENCES in braking power between the cars will still exist (which is to say, not much), the total braking power will go down (but won't matter because everyone has the same problem), and costs are a LOT less. What makes you think that any of these changes will make F1 cars accelerate, brake or handle SLOWER than any other race series? Even if the proposed rules were adopted in whole, I think F1 cars would STILL have the best power/weight ratio, still have massive grip and best braking. Quick - just how fast does an F1 car do the quarter mile? 0-60? No idea? Well, neither do I. We can guess, we can extrapolate, but we don't really KNOW, as we don't, really, CARE. Yeah, I said that we don't care. :-) We CARE not so much about how an F1 car can accelerate on an ABSOLUTE basis; rather, we care about how well the BMW Williams will accelerate at the start v. the Renault right next to him. Come on, F1 was pretty damn cool back when everyone and their brother were running Cosworth motors. And it'll still be cool today, even with some mandated "standard" components. What is NOT regulated is still HUGE - there is plenty of room to reward creative designers, AND adopting these rules will allow DRIVERS to show their skills. I **CANNOT** wait to see Alonso being chased HARD by Schumacher, being chased HARD by Raikkonen, being chased HARD by Montoya. Yeeha!!! vty, --Dennis P.S. I think if you took the current roster of F1 drivers at Indy this coming weekend, and stuck them in Formula BMW cars, you'd STILL get a HECK of a show, and, I'd wager, WAY better **RACING**. :-P . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:31:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: For you F1 fans out there Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Dennis Liu wrote: > Quick - just how fast does an F1 car do the quarter mile? 0-60? R&T did a test of this a couple of years ago with a Jaguar F1 car, and it was around 10 seconds at 190 MPH. 0-60 is about 2 seconds or so. I don't understand why people would think there is little driver skill involved in driving a current F1 car. The important skills are all still required, and probably put under far more stress than other series. If M. Schumacher can tell his engineers which tire has a 0.5 lbs pressure difference, that's mad skill. Going back to a manual transmission seems retrograde to me since that will be yet another way F1 cars lag road cars. Personally, I don't think there should be any budget or engineering restrictions on F1, but instead constrain them with current, relevant technology problems. For example, make them use small diesel or hybrid engines, or regulate their cars' emissions so they pass CARB rules. (And imagine the governator having influence on F1!). --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:57:55 -0700 From: Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Alpina B5 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On the list of things we can't have over here--even if we hit this weeks powerball--I would put the Alpina B5 written up in this week's Autoweek at the very top. To me, a self-confessed torque lover, it seems like a better version of the new M5. Available with a regular row-your-own tranny, and in a wagon (oops, touring) version no less! Tom K. Hood River, OR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:28:33 -0500 From: Jamie Howton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: Alpina B5 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On the list of things we can't have over here--even if we hit this > weeks powerball--I would put the Alpina B5 written up in this week's > Autoweek at the very top. I agree wholeheartedly. The only thing I don't like are the pinstripes (but I could live with them). -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:15:57 -0700 From: Rex Tener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: BMW UUC List <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com>, Rex Tener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Jeremy Clarkson on the new M5 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Evan, We will see if this goes through, though I may still be on the BMW UUC black list .... From Bimmer.org, '97 M3 Sedan, 5 speed, no sunroof: <http://www.roadfly.com/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=32004> Rex At 07:12 PM 6/16/2005 +0000, Evan A wrote: >While it is an entertaining read, Clarkson's analogy to New Coke has one >big flaw: when Coke changed their formula they lost sales. BMW has gained >sales (total sales, including Mini & SAVs) since they changed theirs. > >Evan (_still_ no BMW to my name, but keeping my eyes open for a 5-spd E36 >M3 sedan w/o sunroof) > > >original message: > >>Funny read: >>http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1649122,00.html > >Yes. I'm no JC fan but the boy done good this time. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:27:08 -0700 From: Peter B Du Bois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: WTB: S50 Injectors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Need a set of 17.5# S50 injectors. TIA, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:29:17 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: WTB: S50 Injectors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've got a set. contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter B Du Bois Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:27 PM To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: [UUC] WTB: S50 Injectors Need a set of 17.5# S50 injectors. TIA, Peter Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:33:34 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW List" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: My friend's amusing comments about new BMWs and the E39 M5 (part 2 of 2) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [CONTINUED] [Then, after he got the Clarkson review . . . .] [The Clarkson review of the M5 is] a riot. My test drive in the new 645i was very much the same without the boost to 500hp at the end. I spent fully 25% of that ride quizzing the dealer as to why, exactly, these f*ckin' Nazis found it necessary to "improve" a turn signal stalk to the point where there is little or no physical or audible indication that I have successfully turned it on and seemingly, no way to turn it off. That's just what I want -- to be traveling in the passing lane in a 645i with my left turn signal on, looking to all the world like an 85-year old dowager with rapidly progressing dementia who had inadvertently stepped into some drug dealer's car onstead of her own. The search for the "big red button" puts me in mind of my little brother who, upon struggling with Microsoft Windows for weeks, including the automatic numbering, automatic capitalization, spelling and grammer intrusion, etc., called me completely exasperated and asked, "Where is the 'adult' button?" Happily, my car has no parking barker to tell me every time I leave my garage that my bumper is, in fact, very close to the building where I was parked; no iDrive to shout ridiculous things at me throughout my ride (which commences in 29 hours, not that I'm excited or anything); only two modes for the engine (regular and sport, as near as I can tell); and although it has nav, I refused to put down my deposit until I knew how to turn it off. The dealer told me how useful it really will be once I get used to it and I told him firmly that he was making a completely impossible hypothetical prediction, based as it was on a seriously faulty premise. I only wish I had read this article before test driving all those BMWs, if only so I could have quoted from it repeatedly, each time the dealer explained another feature. "Why do I have to live in some German geek's wet dream?" Priceless. [I then replied to him that I suspected that he WOULD likely use NAV at some point, probably when he was lost and his wife was insisting that he stop to ask directions] Suspect all you want. I'm carrying my zippo, a screwdriver and a long rag. The day I need to find out where the nearest Chuck E. Cheese is (and I'm pretty sure it would tell me), I'm gonna slam on my chattering ABS brakes (are we incapable of pumping our own brakes?), strip off the license plate, remove my CDs, stuff the rag in the gas fill and light the son of a bitch up right there on the road. The driver's seatbelt is being officially retired minutes after I figure out how to make the car stop the nanny belt beep and probably before I hardwire the radar detector. Just as I must pay higher insurance rates, buy more expensive gas, pay more for maintenance, etc., two of the costs of owning this automobile are (a) the occasional speeding ticket (recall that I got my first ticket in my old BMW a mere 15 minutes after picking it up; and when the officer asked if I knew how fast I was going, my brother volunteered, "Nowhere near as fast as he was going ten minutes ago"); and (b) the occasional ticket for not strapping myself to a fast-moving, two-ton, gasoline-fired barbeque. As I continue to maintain, I am ready to die in any number of hideous fashions on any day including today (and daily, it seems, there is a growing list of perpetrators with increasingly vivid imaginations), but burning in my own car is simply not one of them. If I can become a projectile and kill the a$$hole who hit me, what a f*ckin' bonus. They wanted a day to prep the car (new battery, tune up, destroy all records of frame-altering accidents, etc.) and I needed to go get a whopping certified check (yes, it starts with a 5 but not so much that it hurts badly -- plus, having them take my old car probably should have cost me extra, since the quote I got for replacing the rusted out doors and repainting was almost two times the blue book for the car) and more importantly (or at least time-consumingly), I needed to undertake a quixotic search for the title to the old car. That search was called off after three hours, however, and I will be stuck paying the fee for a duplicate. So my scheduled pickup is 2pm Thursday, which also gave me time to learn just how many quarters get stored in a car over the course of twelve years. The answer is quite a few ($17+ worth, in fact) which is remarkable, considering the number of times I parked at a meter and could not find even one stinkin' quarter. All I know is this: When testing the beast, I accelerated through a 25 mph highway off-ramp at a fairly high rate of speed just to see how it handled it and it felt fabulous. Then the dealer said, "You could have done that ramp at 70." And I almost believe him. [And this afternoon, after he picked up the car . . . .] Got the car. It rivals sex. I have not even found a place to try 6th gear yet. I anticipated the hp but it is the handling that blows me away. Now I can go down to my garage and choose whether to hop on the scooter or jump into the Ride. I can now die a thoroughly happy man. But I knew this car was me from the moment you showed me a picture years ago. To my wife's disturbing glee I told her that I now have a mistress. ========== Very amusing! vty, --Dennis A somewhat-slower-than-an-M5 528iT outside of Boston . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:35:50 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW List" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Longish, but a good read - My friend's amusing comments about new BMWs and the E39 M5 (part 1 of 2) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A couple of days ago, I posted a link to the Jeremy Clarkson review on the new M5. A good friend of mine, a middle-aged curmudgeon, had coincidentally been chatting with me via e-mail over which new car he should buy. He's been driving an E34 535i/5-speed for years and years, and it was finally rusting and failing and getting near time to dispose of it. He was thinking about the new 545i, and the 645i, as well as potentially the new 911 or a Maserati coupé. He also thought about waiting for the new M5. But wasn't in love with any of them. His requirement - he wanted a REAL manual transmission (none of this paddle nonsense), and NO navigation/iDrive-type system. A real rear seat would be nice. I told him that the only car he could get today that *really* met his needs was . . . a used E39 M5. He went out for a test drive on Monday, bought it on Tuesday, and picked it up today (paying, IMHO, too much money for it, as he bought it CPO from a dealership, something above $55k). I tell you this so I can share his comments/observations on (a) the Clarkson article, (b) test drives of the new 545/645, and how much he loves his new (used) car. [BTW, he completely irrationally (and acknowledges the irrationality of it) refuses to wear his seatbelt. Genius overall, but a moron for this.] -----Original Message----- [1. This is his email to me asking for advice] OK. My old, but incredibly nimble BMW 5 series is starting to rust now. Well, not just starting. But it still looks better than this year's BMWs which look like they were designed by a certified blind person.. So, if I stick with sedans, I could: Go with a new 5 series BMW and hold my nose when I look at it. Wait in a long line for the M5 Break down and by another brand, which seems always to be an automatic -- I detest automatics. Or I could make believe I have more than 2 seats by going with a car having only enough back seat for a midget or very few groceries: BMW 6 series (same looks problem this year) Maserati Coupe or Cambriocorcorsa? Or I could bite the bullet and give up the pretense of a back seat and suffer the slings and arrows of those who tell me I am too old for a sports car and then the world of manual transmissions opens back up for me: Maserati BMW Porsche ?? I'm going out today but I'm not at all happry about this. I need only a few things in a car: Manual transmission Enough giddyup in the power plant to make at least 1st and 2nd (and preferably 3rd) gear into pleasurable experiences instead of waiting for godot. Ashtray Comfortable front seats Memory seats & mirrors, if possible (because of the nasty habit of valets to only come in miniature sizes). A/C that does not suck the power dry No TALKING by the car -- not about f*ckin' seat belts; not about whether the road is about to freeze, etc. and no navigation screens or on-star bull$hit or other crap accoutrements like that I'm ruling out the incredibly low-slung cars like Ferrari, etc. and I can't get over the psychological hurdle of climbing into a Caddy, even the one with the Corvette engine, because I start to feel like a truly old person. PLus, the parking brake on the Caddy (left side under dash) is actually in the way when you move your foot from the dead pedal to the clutch -- what genius designed that? What's a boy to do?? If I don't settle on anything, I suppose I could just junk the Beamer, thereby making garage space for two or three more motorcycles. Although I know the technology is different, the concept of paddle shifters puts me in mind of my granfather's slant six dodge dart which had push button gears on the dash to the left of the steering column. There is zero chance of my paddling. I drove the 645 today. It can go. But the coupe seems like a bad compromise wherein I pay 10K or so extra as compared to a 545 and for the extra money I lose a real back seat. But did I mention that the power and handling on the 645 were very nice? But the 545 has the identical engine. I have not ruled out porsche but I am attracted to the notion of a used m5. Perhaps old enough to predate nav? If I can't locate an m5 to my liking (and I am going to be picky even on color because I am so sick of grey-silver cars) then I will likely end up with the 545 but I am curious . . . What functions are unavoidably nav-based? I was hoping to just turn it off - right after I rip the beeper out that tells me I'm too close to my own garage door. If this does not work out, I guess I will have to either (a) bite the bullet and buy a new 545, which is hardly a burden, really, or (b) dive into the expensive world of Porsche options, where a cup holder costs $2500 or so --but there are probably three versions from which to choose -- and try out the 911. I am hesitating to actually test drive a 911 because it would probably be unduly prejudicial. Swept away in a moment of ecstasy, I would wake up in a month wondering where my back seat went. [CONTINUED!] ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(11 messages) **********
