I sent this response to Doc Rossi's earlier message about the mandora MH
Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:06:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [CITTERN] Re: plucked bass To: Doc Rossi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The 18thC Mandora (aka Gallichon - various cognates) was also tuned in E as well as D. A number of people make modern reconstructions/copies of these instruments (see the website of David Van Edwards). The large continuo gallichon was tuned in A (ie with first course as the top line of the bass clef) so 886 cm is by no means too large. The Talbot MS has Finger's instrument tuned in A with a string length around 95cm. Despite Barber's statement that the Schorn is the only extant large galichon in A, there are, in fact, a number of others: all in the high 80s to mid 90s string length; some double strung and some single (as indeed historical records lead us to expect). The Mandora/Gallichon should, however, not be confused with the 18thC Italian lute: many contemporary 18thC Italian illustrations show what, to a cursory glance, look like a renaissance lute (often 7 course only) with a short neck but with a viol type pegbox ending in a plaque. There are extant examples in various collections (often incorrectly named) - eg Guiseppe Radice 1775 - with string lengths in the low/mid 60s. My view is that these are, indeed, simply continuations of the old lute (in nominal G or A depending on local pitch) and played accompanied from staff notation (like the late archlute of Dalla Casa) but without the complication (for amatuers) of the extra open basses. I'm currently developing a paper on this. MH Doc Rossi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think the tuning for the Mandora was a tone lower than modern guitar, plus pitch may have been lower as well - from one to 3 semitones. You're absolutely right about information being ignored - that's always upset me. On Mar 25, 2008, at 9:10 PM, Frank Nordberg wrote: > Brad McEwen wrote: > > I still think that an 18th C Mandola would be the ticket. I don't > > know if anyone makes them, but there are a lot of roundback short > > scale Italian made Mandocellos that are pretty close. > > There wasn't any mandocello as we know it back in the mid 18th > century. The mandolin back then was basically just a scaled down > lute. A scaled up version of a scaled down version of a lute would > be ... a lute. ;-) > > However, the 17th/18th century six course lute *is* an interesting > option no matter what name it goes by. It's a common belief that the > large lutes with extra bass strings completely replaced the old > renaissance lute but that may be a truth with modifications. > > Brescianello published a collection of music for a six course lute > around the middle of the 18th century. He called the instrument a > colascione (although it doesn't seem to have much in common with the > regular three course colascione) and apparently it had six single > strings tuned like a modern guitar EADGBE. > Usually we think of this instrument as purely Italian but > Brescianello was connected in some way to the court of the Duke of > Württemberg at some time during the first few decades of the 18th > C., so there may be a German/Central European connection. > > There is a surviving instrument of that kind that certainly has a > German connection. It was built by Johannes Schorn in Salzburg in > 1688. Barber and Harris are making a copy of it and you can view an > example at: > http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat08.htm > (at the bottom of the page) > It's got a relatively long neck and small body, making it look as > much like a colascione as a standard lute. I'm sure I've seen them > with more regular lute propotions though - just can't remember where > and when. > > I'm a bit curious about the tuning mentioned there. The renaissance > A tuning seems awfully high for an 886 mm scale. > > Barber and Harris mentions that Godfrey Finger had a similar > instrument, only slightly larger. Yet another German connection... > > ------- > > Right now I'm wondering if we really know anything about 17th and > 18th century stringed instruments at all. This little excercise of > ours has already unveiled more than enough information to completely > rewrite the "official" history. Worst of all, nothing of this is new > information, it's information that's been ignored until now. > > Frank Nordberg > http://www.musicaviva.com > http://stores.ebay.com/Nordbergs-Music-Store?refid=store > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --------------------------------- Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! for Good --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. More Ways to Keep in Touch. --
