Karen, As a scientist I am very strict with the use of my terminology. As Sarah noted, "organic" isn't the best term to use when describing agricultural products or methods- particularly because it often clashes with the chemistry term, which as far as I am concerned takes precedence. Organic chemicals are those that contain C-H bonds, and include a lot of industrially-derived chemicals including commercial pesticides, herbicides, plastics, and a lot of the hazardous pollutants out there which we'd rather not have anywhere near the food we grow or eat. If I were to discuss these chemicals with other scientists and engineers, I would describe such chemicals as organic. And with respect to urea, it is a naturally-occurring organic compound formed by the breakdown of proteins and amino acids within an organism, and is a major component of urine. As a result, urine and specifically urea could be categorized similarly to manure for sustainable agriculture, depending on the source and processing methods of such materials.
Atmospheric nitrogen gas (N2) is very non-reactive, and not many organisms are actually able to take advantage of it to build their tissues. An exception to these are microorganisms that live on the roots of legumes and nitrify atmospheric nitrogen to forms that plants can take advantage of. The opposite process can also occur (de-nitrification) by soil microorganisms, and can account for agricultural greenhouse gas emissions. Best regards, Guy On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Karen Jones <k.jo...@uwinnipeg.ca> wrote: > Absolutely, thanks Sarah! > Sustainable, a verb, a transitive verb and a noun. 12 meanings. I prefer > the noun myself. > > The first law of ecology is that everything is related to everything else. > Barry Commoner > >>>> "Bailey, Sarah" <sarah.bai...@uconn.edu> 7/26/2011 3:05 PM >>> > It's a good example of why I prefer my students to use the term "sustainable" > rather than "organic".... > > Sarah > Sarah Bailey > Master Gardener Program Coordinator > Pesticide Safety Educator > > Cooperative Extension Service > 1800 Asylum Avenue > West Hartford, CT 06117 > > Ph: 860-570-9023 > Fax: 860-570-9008 > Email: sarah.bai...@uconn.edu > > > > An Equal Opportunity Employer and Program Provider. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: community_garden-boun...@list.communitygarden.org > [mailto:community_garden-boun...@list.communitygarden.org] On Behalf Of > Michael Simmons > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:03 PM > To: Karen Jones > Cc: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > Subject: Re: [Community_garden] a word on organic > > This is a fairly common problem in using the word "organic." Organic > farming has nothing to do with organic chemistry. The "organic" in organic > farming refers to the holistic approach used to make and maintain an > ecosystem which functions under the Law of Return whereby natural nutrient > cycling is facilitated and off-farm inputs are minimized. > > Michael > __________________________________________________________________________ > > H. Michael Simmons, Ph.D. > > City of Bloomington Indiana > > Parks and Recreation Department > > P. O. Box 848 > > Bloomington, IN 47402 > > (812)349-3737 Fax: (812)349-3705 > simmo...@bloomington.in.gov > > On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Karen Jones <k.jo...@uwinnipeg.ca> wrote: > >> Note: Sourcing from Wikipedia. Consider the source. >> There is no such thing as organic nitrogen. Wikipedia or no. There is >> industrial and non-industrial. The confusion on the meaning of words is just >> another symptom of the tower of babel dark ages we live in. Sorry. >> >> >> The first law of ecology is that everything is related to everything else. >> Barry Commoner >> >>> Guy Serbin <guy.ser...@gmail.com> 7/26/2011 2:23 PM >>> >> Not all compounds containing carbon are organic, even if their source >> is biological. For example, calcium carbonate (the primary component >> of limestone) is usually biogenic, but is not considered to be >> organic. Likewise pure carbon (graphite and diamonds), CO2, CO, >> cyanides, carbonates, and carbides are considered to be inorganic >> (note- I am sourcing this from Wikipedia, but it does look accurate). >> Most organic compounds will contain carbon-hydrogen bonds. >> >> Please note that many of the nastiest pollutants are classified as >> organic chemicals, so let's not confuse them with organic agriculture. >> >> Organic nitrogen sources would be from proteins, amino acids, or urea. >> >> Best regards, >> Guy >> >> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karen Jones <k.jo...@uwinnipeg.ca> wrote: >> > As one of those old fashioned people who thinks that a mistake in >> language often reveals a mistake in thought, there is no such thing as >> 'organic' nitrogen. There is nitrogen from industrial and non-industrial >> sources. Anybody out there who has studied organic chemistry would tell us >> that 'organic' means that a substance has carbon in it. Please correct me >> if I am mistaken. >> > >> > >> > >> > The first law of ecology is that everything is related to everything >> else. Barry Commoner >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > URL: < >> http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20110726/36b9ad8a/attachment.html >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of >> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to >> find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org ( >> http://www.communitygarden.org/ ) ( >> http://www.communitygarden.org/ ) >> > >> > To post an e-mail to the list: >> community_garden@list.communitygarden.org >> > >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: >> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20110726/63608d54/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of >> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to >> find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org ( >> http://www.communitygarden.org/ ) >> >> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: >> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20110726/422f2d61/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's > services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out > how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org ( > http://www.communitygarden.org/ ) > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20110726/ed91c7fe/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's > services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out > how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org > _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
