Thanks for the perspective, Gunlaug. Your comments are very much appreciated. And your help on this list is invaluable to so many!
Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:14 PM > To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org > Subject: Re: [css-d] problems with CSS and floats > > Rick Faircloth wrote: > > > However, it's good to remember that for those of us that are just > > beginning to work with CSS layouts, that getting *anything* to work > > on any level is a big challenge. Once we become more knowledgeable > > and experienced we can begin to work with broader concerns, like > > font-scaling, more browser compatibility, etc. > > The CSS learning-curve _is_ steep, but it doesn't become less steep by > leaving out factors like the mentioned issues till later. Leaving any of > these basics out at an early stage just means one has to go through the > same learning-process all over again, and there's always the risk that > hard-learned knowledge has to be unlearned and/or corrected more than > one would like, in order to go forward. > > > For me, just being able to make CSS-based sites without tables has > > been a big task... especially having no formal training in it. Just > > getting them to look "as good as" my table-based sites has been a > > big challenge. > > I would think so, since the part of CSS that is best suited for > replicating and/or improving look and feel based on table-based designs, > is badly supported across browser-land and not at all in MSIE. It's > called 'CSS-table', and _maybe_ IE8 will at least _start_ to support > CSS-table now that Firefox (3) is showing signs of improving its > support. Miracles have happened before... :-) > > The substitutes we use now, like floating and/or positioning major > layout-parts, won't last forever. They are all temporary solutions, and > both existing but badly supported, and entirely new, solutions will > (have to) come into play. > So the process of learning and unlearning methods and what to use them > for, is the only constant we have in today's web design. It is not a > good idea to make this process harder by skipping important parts early > on - at least not knowingly. > > > So don't expect too much of us newbies too soon... it'll only scare > > the faint-hearted away. Sometimes a "pretty picture" is a big goal! > > Indeed. However, it would be wrong not to point out that experience > tells us that "the prettier they come, the less they can take before > they break". > > It doesn't have to be like that at all (that "pretty" means "weak"), but > it _is_ , sadly, the norm. Doesn't seem to have much to do with "newbie" > or "advanced" status either, and a web designer's status doesn't help > much when it comes to holding a design together under what must be > considered to be 'normal conditions' - visitors being able to use a site > in regular browsers. Proper use of HTML/CSS/script etc., is however > always of immense help towards such a goal. > > This is why some of us ignore status, and only look at the results. We > comment for a reason: we want to see *better results* - in a broad > sense. The rest -- process, experience, status -- doesn't really matter > all that much, (IMO of course). > > > > Consequently: we don't expect much of anyone - status irrelevant, as > we're all limited by the same incomplete tools - browsers and standards. > We just try to help "whoever" to find solutions they are comfortable > with, within the range of available alternatives. > > This does sometimes mean we have to tell people that "something" doesn't > work well or at all, and which problems one has to solve and/or avoid if > one wants a "pretty picture" or "whatever" to work. > This is not critique of ones status, present attempts or forwarded > examples. It is just information that anyone can do what they want with, > and the only expectation I have to anyone is that I expect them to do > just that - what they want. > > regards > Georg > -- > http://www.gunlaug.no > ______________________________________________________________________ > css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ ______________________________________________________________________ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
