hi, i'm attaching an answer i send to one of the ~300 rant mails i got the last few days about that issue, that might clarify that a bit. (note that this mail is one of the morte ffiendly ones)
we could go on shipping kdeedu, but surely there had to change a lot:
a) split up the 32MB big package into smaller ones
b) make it depend on plain QT instead of the kdelibs, make it ship its
own help docs so we dont have to pull in all the kde help for one app
(which in turn depend on 10's of MBs of unused KDE stuff we are forced
to ship/install)
c) make the language packs smaller (split them or something like that)
indeed thats rather a problem on the (k,ed)ubuntu side and not upstream
if it were possible for us to have as small packages as possible with as
less dependencies as possible, so pulling in kdeedu wouldnt eat up >=
~100MB on the CD for us it would surely ease a lot here.
please note as well that gallium is a community project it is *not* an
official edubuntu project (even though i'd include it on the CD if it
would give us the same featureset kalzium does)
please also dont discourage people working on a GNOME based edu set of
apps gnome is lacking a lot here so let them do what they want, even
though *my* ideal world would have desktop independent apps that can be
easily shared between desktop environments i.e. have a look at the
ubiquity installer or hwdb-gui in ubuntu, its possible to write apps in
a way that you can use them in either desktop environment with their own
dedicated frontend and as i understood gallium should work that way ...
but sadly, according to the tone all these mails hitting my inbox the
last week had there is no easy way getting both worlds together...
if people start threatening me personally for something like that (i'm
not even involved with gallium) i think we still have to go a long long
way to get both worlds together.
i was voting for having kdeedu in edubuntu from the beginning and was
fighting for having the best of both worlds on our CD (even though i
moan about every app i have to drop with every new release due to the
space constraints this gives us) but that mail attack from the kde side
against me personally (about a tech problem we try to solve) starts
really making me reconsider my opinion here.
... very disappointed ...
ciao
oli
--- Begin Message ---hi, Am Samstag, den 30.09.2006, 11:56 +0200 schrieb Markus Büchele: > I cannot accept that brilliant application such as Kalzium are being replaced > out of ideological reasons. > > Under such circumstances I must seriously question the leadership qualities > of > the project managers. If you dislike KDE, say so, but remember that you put > yourself in the fanatics corner if you try to get rid of any trace of it NOT > FOR QUALITY REASONS BUT FOR IDEOLOGICAL REASONS. there are no ideological reasons ... we need to ship a GNOME desktop simply because we rely on the maintenance and integration work that goes in there from the whole ubuntu distro team (the edubuntu team is way to small to maintain either of the full desktops, the special stuff the installer needs to do *and* the CDs) we are also bound to 700MB on the CDs since we send them out through the shipit program to a lot of countries where people have not enough bandwith to download an iso themselves. to include kdeedu on the CD we have to spend 150-200MB of this space and have to cut down a lot of the desktop functionallity. kdeedu depends on the kde libs and way worse on the kde language packs (the german language pack for kde is 20MB alone) that limits our set of applications a lot ... the decision is based on the calculation that we are either able to ship 10-12 kdeedu apps or ~ 20-50 more gnome apps that dont pull in the kdelibs packages or additional language packs... as you might be able to guess from our decision to still keep kdeedu due to kalzium and not to replace it before an at least equivalent replacement is written, we very much appreciate the high quality of that application and are willing to live with the space constraints it gives us for some further time. most of the other kdeedu apps either have replacements or are easily rewritten in gtk. kalziums high featureset and quality isnt... its currently the only app that makes us keep kdeedu and the resulting "waste" of CD space. also gallium isnt thought as a full replacement for kdeedu, it shall just be another frontend that gives us the opportunity to drop the kdelibs/langpack and other bloated packages we have, it will still use the kalzium datasets and we wont replace kalzium until we can provide at least the same quality of functionallity kalzium has to offer. (we have no QT programmers in the team, but if a plain QT version of kalzium was available that would ease a lot and make the gtk replacement unneeded, the KDE philosophy of keeping everything in as huge packages as possible might stand in the way here though) please understand that we simply dont want to treat people in the countries with less bandwith and no DVD readers/writers available as second class citizens, we want to ship the best software we can for education (and thus decided for kalzium as *the* chemnistry app) but the limitations it brings us are quite big and thats one way to resolve it ... i'm open for any suggestions to solve the problem differently but its surely no ideological but a simple technical decision decision behind it as you hopefully can see from the above arguments. ciao oli
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