EV Digest 5348
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Hybridize-yourself?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Thermal measurements
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: towing....an EV
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: AC vs DC; Newbie Question
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC safety circuit
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: AC vs DC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Conversion questions
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Plug-in Prius question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Plug-in Prius question
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Coast--down method for aero drag
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Conversion questions
by Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Coast--down method for aero drag
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Conversion questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: DC safety circuit
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Episode 77: Battery-Powered Dragster on Monster Garage Tonight!
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DC-AC Upgrade Solarvan Website Updated.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC-AC Upgrade Solarvan Website Updated.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: S-10 oem on eBay
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DC-AC Upgrade Solarvan Website Updated.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DC-AC Upgrade Solarvan Website Updated.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Conversion Questions
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Battery rack for cheap near San Jose
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Prius Classic pack burn out.
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) GE 9 " motors for EV
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Conversion questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Plug-in Prius question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) RE: S-10 oem on eBay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Charging Dead Flat AGMs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Plug-in Prius question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: S-10 oem on eBay
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Charging Dead Flat AGMs
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Plug-in Prius question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
33) Solectria Force, first impressions (new owner) (long)
by Todd Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the only time the Honda system moves with the gas motor turned off is
if gravity and/or momentum are on your side. The electric drive will not
work without the ICE running.
damon
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: EV Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Hybridize-yourself?
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:15:07 -0700
I know the Toyota setup uses a separate motor, but doesn't the Honda "IMA"
system have to have the engine running to use electric drive? Saw this on
eBay
and thought you'd have to have a separate EV drive to the rear wheels to
make
it a plug-in:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8053363420
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Man... that's a pretty crazy choice for a digital device IMHO.
So there's actually 3 wires in that lead?
This device cannot be replaced by a thermistor. The LM35 is under $2.
Danny
Mark Farver wrote:
From the archives:
----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:07 -0800
From: Lee Hart To: ev.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: eMeter temp sensor
... I worked for Cruising Equipment (which designed the E-meter). I
can say for certain that we designed it for an LM35. A 10k thermistor
might work, but would be seriously less accurate.
----------------------------------------------------
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
Of course, it might be more expensive than
the "gold-plate" Blue Ox tow bar $300,
but I like to try to go forward once I am going.
I would almost certainly go with a purchased custom towbar if one is
available for your EV. The forces involved in towing can be a little
weird and anything you do will likely either be too weak or heavy or
hard to use. You may want to consult with the towbar manufacturer
becuase their system will be designed with the stock weight and
balance. A friend that worked for a trailer installer had a motto: If
it ain't big and chrome, we can't attach a generic towbar.
On an unibody car its pretty tough to find places that can take the load
of towing the vehicle, so you usually have to design brackets that can
spread the load. Beams that look strong enough to take the pulling
force often cannot take the braking force, or your bracket may add an
up/down load that wasn't intended etc. Towing is not a good time to
discover that your engineering skills are not sufficient. A failed
battery rack or motor mount seldom results in a lose of vehicle
control... a broken tow bar often does and has the added problem of
potentially damaging both vehicles. I'd be willing to bet that most of
the EV regulars have had more hairy moments towing their cars than
driving them. (John Wayland has some pretty impressive stories...)
If you are towing a car (on a trailer or four wheels down) seriously
consider a trailer braking system, especially if the tow/towed vehicles
are similar in weight. Most tow vehicles (pickups, SUVs) today do not
have much weight over the rear wheels and are prone to jackknifing.
Speaking from experience, lack of trailer brakes is not too noticeable
when you're pulling a 3000lb EV behind a 10000lb RV, but a 3000lb EV
behind a 3500lb Silverado pickup is a lot more, um.. interesting. (And
towing a 5500lb EV behind a 10000lb RV cost an entire set of brake pads
in less than 21 miles...)
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > DC vs AC ... what about sepex, PM, BLDC and whatnot. Do they all
> > belong in the category of DC? Or does DC stand for a brushed series
> > wound motor only. If so, why aren´t the others hardly ever discussed
> > in this group?
As John says, "sepex" (separately-excited) and PM (permanent magnet)
motors count as "DC" (direct current).
BLDC (brushless direct current) contain magnets on the rotor and have a
trapezoidally-wound stator. This is so, when commuting without PWM
(pulse-width modulation), the current is flat instead of sinusoidal.
During the "sloped" part of the trapezoidal waveform, that particular
phase is not driven and is sensed to determine the rotor position and
thus when to commute next. This can be seen in my application note:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/appnote3.pdf
PMAC (permanent magnet alternating current) motors also have magnets on
the rotor, but are wound almost identically to induction machines.
Their stator voltage looks like a set of sinusoids equally spaced in
time (depending on the phase count). Almost always, BLDC and PMAC
motors are wound for three phases. Both of these two as well as
induction motors truly have no torque ripple, but need a more complex
closed-loop control to be sensorless (i.e., have no speed sensor).
Large BLDC motors rarely have a built-in control. On the contrary,
small ones often do; mostly fans. (I know the person who did the
control for General Electric's sensorless BLDC blower motors.)
There are also SR (switched reluctance) motors. They are most similar
to induction machines but have a non-magnetized, synchronously-operating
rotor that aligns itself at certain angles to the stator. They can be
extremely efficient but noisy and difficult to control. BLDC is also
noisy.
According to the February 2006 issue of Appliance Magazine, the cost of
brushless magnet motors is quickly approaching that of induction
machines because of the price of steel. The difference a normal
consumer sees is possibly due to a different power rating comparison or
simply mass quantity induction motor sales.
More information:
http://www.appliancedesign.com/CDA/Archives/5e562036cb938010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:52 PM 4/9/2006, you wrote:
Since I read about how bad DC controllers might fail (well, I kind of knew
that before but .. ) I was driving down the road with my foot on the
clutch. And I was thinking: It can't be too complicated to have some sort
of fail safe that would 'kick in' if a controller breaks down.
A micro switch on the potbox would have to be combined with a voltage
sensing circuit at the motor. If the foot is off the gas pedal and there's
still voltage supplied to the motor: Throw the contactor. If a circuit
would be able to distinguish between a PCM signal and a 'flat' DC (which
would be the case if the controller fails?) it would be able to kill main
power without any need to sense the gas- or brake pedals.
Now - I am no EE so I assume I must have mad some errors. Please help me
out and, maybe, even suggest a circuit design.
The Curtis/PMC potbox comes with a microswitch that opens the main
contactor every time the throttle is released, AND shuts off the key
switch input to the controller. Been like this for more than 15 years.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< There are also SR (switched reluctance) motors. They are most similar
to induction machines but have a non-magnetized, synchronously-operating
rotor that aligns itself at certain angles to the stator. They can be
extremely efficient but noisy and difficult to control. BLDC is also
noisy. >>>
The Lectra motorcycle used a VR (variable reluctance) motor that supposedly took
a lot of testing/tweaking to get quiet - is this similar to SR?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This may give you some ideas
http://www.e-volks.com/about.html
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kapeli80" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm an ev newbie thinking about doing a old Beetle convertible
> conversion and was hoping somebody could help me with a few questions
> I haven't figured out yet. I want a car that could drive around 30-40
> miles and reach at least 60+ mph. I can't seem to make sence out of
> what it might take to make it do that but for a setup I was thinking
> 12 deep cycle batteries lead acids in 2 banks at 72v, probably the 9"
> ACD motor or maybe a shunt, the pfc20 charger (you can charge 2 banks
> with this right?), and I haven't figured what motor controller or
> anything else out yet. Also how well does a Beetle convert to ev?
> Will I be able to fit 12 batteries in there?
>
> Thanks for you help,
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you replace the original pack (288V/4Ah?) with a NiMH pack of the same
voltage but higher capacity (e.g.-20Ah), will the charge software look for the
original capacity and kick in the charging as soon as it's down the 4Ah, or
does it watch voltage curves, too? I know the NiMH chemistry is rather "stiff",
not dropping voltage until it's near fully-discharged, and then hitting
1.0V/cell quite abruptly, so I was just curious as to whether a software hack
is needed with larger-but-the-same battery pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These folks have a clue.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> If you replace the original pack (288V/4Ah?) with a NiMH pack of the
same
> voltage but higher capacity (e.g.-20Ah), will the charge software
look for the
> original capacity and kick in the charging as soon as it's down the
4Ah, or
> does it watch voltage curves, too? I know the NiMH chemistry is
rather "stiff",
> not dropping voltage until it's near fully-discharged, and then hitting
> 1.0V/cell quite abruptly, so I was just curious as to whether a
software hack
> is needed with larger-but-the-same battery pack.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone here ever built a boat tail for their car or truck? It's
something I've considered doing only for long highway journeys.
Did it pay off?
-Mike
On 4/9/06, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some of you might find this paper of interest.
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88628main_H-2283.pdf
>
> Particularly note references 2 and 4:
>
> 2. White, R. A. and H. H. Korst, "The Determination of Vehicle Drag
> Contributions from Coast-Down Tests," SAE-720099, Jan. 1972.
>
> 4. Keller, Thomas L. and Robert F. Keuper, Comparison of the Energy
> Method With the Accelerometer Method of Computing Drag Coefficients
> >From Flight Data, NACA CB-5H31, 1945.
>
> The NACA paper is particularly good. All the NACA papers are
> available online from a NASA site. I don't recall the URL because I
> have the entire set on my computer. A little googling will help.
>
> John
>
> PS: In view of the dates on these papers, reconsider the article
> about that Phil Knox character and the comments there and on this list
> to the effect that car and truck engineers are ignorant of this stuff.
> I just shake my head in stunned amazement at the stuff that comes
> across this list.
>
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=870
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen another beetle though that says on a 72v system with 6 optimas
they only got 10 mile trips at 40mph top speed. I was actually looking
at that conversion kit but I guess I wasn't sure how upgradeable it was,
if it had everything I need, or how good the parts were. It definatly
has the best prices I've seen compared to evparts kits though. I guess
I could fit in 12 batteries with no problem.
jmygann wrote:
This may give you some ideas
http://www.e-volks.com/about.html
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kapeli80" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm an ev newbie thinking about doing a old Beetle convertible
conversion and was hoping somebody could help me with a few questions
I haven't figured out yet. I want a car that could drive around 30-40
miles and reach at least 60+ mph. I can't seem to make sence out of
what it might take to make it do that but for a setup I was thinking
12 deep cycle batteries lead acids in 2 banks at 72v, probably the 9"
ACD motor or maybe a shunt, the pfc20 charger (you can charge 2 banks
with this right?), and I haven't figured what motor controller or
anything else out yet. Also how well does a Beetle convert to ev?
Will I be able to fit 12 batteries in there?
Thanks for you help,
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I recall GM putting a tail cone on the Impact (EV1 prototype) and
going 183 mph. It also had smooth wheel covers. I don't know if it
was lowered. A sign inside read "Do not exceed 190 mph in 1st gear."
--- Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone here ever built a boat tail for their car or truck? It's
> something I've considered doing only for long highway journeys.
>
> Did it pay off?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A PFC20 charger can charge anything from 12 to 450 volts..How you hook it up
wire it the battery pack(s) is up to you.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "kapeli80" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Conversion questions
> I'm an ev newbie thinking about doing a old Beetle convertible
> conversion and was hoping somebody could help me with a few questions
> I haven't figured out yet. I want a car that could drive around 30-40
> miles and reach at least 60+ mph. I can't seem to make sence out of
> what it might take to make it do that but for a setup I was thinking
> 12 deep cycle batteries lead acids in 2 banks at 72v, probably the 9"
> ACD motor or maybe a shunt, the pfc20 charger (you can charge 2 banks
> with this right?), and I haven't figured what motor controller or
> anything else out yet. Also how well does a Beetle convert to ev?
> Will I be able to fit 12 batteries in there?
>
> Thanks for you help,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is why it is so easy to forego all this and simply drop
the contactor when the potbox microswitch indicates the
accelerator is not depressed.
(Regen is usually not used in DC systems, for AC system this
solution is not appropriate, but as we have seen in the past
the AC system is not so vulnerable to the stuck open fault)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC safety circuit
Ideally the controller should look for a level of current which is
inappropriate for the level of throttle applied. The controller
originates the PWM signal so it can certainly come up with current
expectations.
If the motor is drawing too much current but the gas is being pressed,
then it should reduce the PWM duty cycle. Perhaps the person is on a
hill or thought it would be fun to see if he could pull a trailer. In
this case the only reason to reduce PWM current should be if it exceeds
the current rating of the controller (or motor brushes/windings) and is
in danger of damaging a component.
If the controller is not driving the output- which would happen if the
pedal were not depressed- then as far as I can see any current indicates
failure. However inductive (noncontact, non-shunt) sensors do have an
offset error so that device itself can make a false reading,
particularly after a very large current. A shunt's amplifiers have some
degree of offset too. It would be necessary that the properties of the
sensing device be well understood.
Danny
Evan Tuer wrote:
>On 4/10/06, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>Since I read about how bad DC controllers might fail (well, I kind of knew
>>that before but .. ) I was driving down the road with my foot on the
>>clutch. And I was thinking: It can't be too complicated to have some sort
>>of fail safe that would 'kick in' if a controller breaks down.
>>
>>A micro switch on the potbox would have to be combined with a voltage
>>sensing circuit at the motor. If the foot is off the gas pedal and there's
>>still voltage supplied to the motor: Throw the contactor.
>>
>>
>
>I've tried this, and it works, but you have to be careful to avoid
>"false alarms". The motor voltage does not vanish immediately, so I
>disovered that if you let your foot off the pedal very quickly while
>moving fast, it would drop out the contactor. But, if you set the
>voltage triggering too high (or add a delay) it might not be sensitive
>or fast enough to prevent some damage if the controller really did
>fail on, and it's hard to test. So, a circuit that senses current
>might be a better idea.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the reminder, I would have foregotten about it (setting an alarm in
my cell phone right now to remind me again later).
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello to All,
Just wanted to remind everyone who receives the Discovery channel, that
our own Rich Rudman and Shawn Lawless will be on TV tonight on the
Monster Garage show. Should be a hoot! My local TV listing has it on at
8:00 pm west coast time.
I met the guy who does the voice over for the show while we had White
Zombie on display at the Rod & Custom show this past February. He was
excited to tell me that he was scheduled to do his part for the show the
following Monday. He was pretty pumped up over doing this episode, and
told me seeing White Zombie and the drag racing videos of it jerking the
tires off the ground and blowing off muscle cars took him by surprise. I
think we helped prime the pump for him to be really excited about the
electric Chevy Rich and Shawn helped build.
See Ya.....John 'Monster Garage rejectee' Wayland
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Peter! How well your cell protectors work?
Victor
Peter Perkins wrote:
I have now updated my website with details of my completed DC to AC upgrade.
It contains lots of pictures and various downloadable files.
A few minor glitches to sort.
I hope you approve.
Regards
Peter Perkins UK
www.solarvan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Peter! How well do your cell protectors work?
Victor
Peter Perkins wrote:
I have now updated my website with details of my completed DC to AC upgrade.
It contains lots of pictures and various downloadable files.
A few minor glitches to sort.
I hope you approve.
Regards
Peter Perkins UK
www.solarvan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This will be interesting to see how much it goes for. Since the batteries are
dead and the PbA batteries are no longer available about the only option with
this would be to just ship it to EVBones and have a NiMH retrofit done. I've
talked with Jeff and they said these trucks are so heavily integrated there's
almost no chance you could ever put any other battery in there other than
what's supposed to be in there.
At least the seller is being honest. There is another owner of one of these
trucks locally who I think was the original owner and he put 50,000 miles on
the original PbA pack before it finally was done. He did this by never taking
it below 50%. This was a few years ago I saw the truck right before they got a
new pack, so I'm guessing it must have been one of the last lead packs
obtainable right at the end of the EV1 support.
Dang it looks like it's in good shape otherwise.
Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
He posted his response, they batts are dead.
So tempting.
-Mike
On 4/10/06, Jim Coate wrote:
> 1997 S-10 EV on eBay in Holland, MA:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4629840591
>
> As a 1997, it would have been built with PbA batteries, so I think the
> posted range was optimistic in '97, and very optimistic now if it still
> has the original 9 year old pack in it. I have sent a question to the
> seller asking if the batteries have been replaced. The truck itself
> looks to be nice. These finds always leave me wondering where the truck
> has been hiding for the past 9 years.
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1997 Solectria Force
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your vehicle would be perfect for car shows and such!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have now updated my website with details of my completed DC to AC
upgrade.
>
> It contains lots of pictures and various downloadable files.
>
> A few minor glitches to sort.
>
> I hope you approve.
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Perkins UK
>
> www.solarvan.co.uk
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date:
08/04/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The link to your mk1 BMS is not functional.
http://www.solarvan.co.uk/Onlineprojectfiles/solarvanbmsproj.zip
I got this link to work.
http://www.solarvan.co.uk/solarvanbmsproj.zip
Thanks!!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have now updated my website with details of my completed DC to AC
upgrade.
>
> It contains lots of pictures and various downloadable files.
>
> A few minor glitches to sort.
>
> I hope you approve.
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Perkins UK
>
> www.solarvan.co.uk
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date:
08/04/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
I am driving a 56 vw conversion at 72 volts with an 8" adc motor and 12
us125 batteries.I am using an Alltrax 450 amp controller.It will do 30-
40 miles at 35 -40 mph. The top speed is 45-50 mph, high amp draw at
that speed. I have 6 batteries behind the back seat, 4 under the seat
(back seat removed) and 2 in front where the gas tank used to be. There
are several vw conversions on the ev photo list you can view
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I have at work a 23" rack, about 7' tall with 6 shelves.
It was part of a Peco-2 telecom power supply with backup,
the shelves are designed to carry the backup batteries,
so this thing is heavy!
(power supplies were two racks of each 48V, 200A, I still have
one rack with 4 modules of 48V, 50A.
Interesting is that each has an "equalize" switch, apparently
they are designed to take care of the batteries)
(I also still have the digital meter panel with volt/amp display
and the distribution panel with 40x 100A breakers.
Anybody interested in copper buss bar with pre-inserted bolts,
1/4" thick 5" wide, 3 double rows of screws for the Burndy
dual-hole lugs?
Also some 1/4" thick 3" wide straight bars of copper with
a few holes in the end, or bent in a 90 deg hook at the end.)
Anyway - the shelves are heavy gauge steel, about 1/8" thick
with reinforced brackets for mounting against the 23" rack.
Probably this makes only sense for people in the Bay Area,
as this thing is heavy.
Would be ideal to store a large number of batteries in a
small space, about 2' x 2' floor area.
Everything goes for close to scrap metal or avg Ebay prices,
but without shipping if its in EV distance.
Don, you listening?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes writes:
>
> There is a Classic Prius on the toyota-prius list that has a burnt out pack
> & the dealer will give 3k for it.(that means in my book the car is still
> wort 10k) Seems to me this is a great time to make it plug in. What is the
> option now? Anyone done this surgery? Maybe I should contact another list.
> Thanks for any info.
How about buying the battery pack from a wrecked Prius. They pop up on
eBay fairly often.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I am looking fro information about the GE 9" motor and how well it works
for an ev application. Can anyone who has used them provide information
on their performance and reliability as an ev motor. I have one that I
plan to use in a Bradley GTE, that is on it's way to Jim Husted, for
repair. This one was originally used as a pump motor for a Hyster lift
and converted for the Bradley.
Thanks,
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I've seen another beetle though that says on a 72v system with 6 optimas
> they only got 10 mile trips at 40mph top speed. I was actually looking
> at that conversion kit but I guess I wasn't sure how upgradeable it was,
> if it had everything I need, or how good the parts were. It definatly
> has the best prices I've seen compared to evparts kits though. I guess
> I could fit in 12 batteries with no problem.
>
> jmygann wrote:
> > This may give you some ideas
> >
> > http://www.e-volks.com/about.html
> >
Their surplus aircraft starters were discussed on this list before - don't
remember if anyone thought these were "upgradeable", but the concensus was "you
get what you pay for". If you are handy enough to make your own adapter, you
have a world of forklift motors to use, and those are plenty strong enough.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> These folks have a clue.
>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/
>
> Mike
>
> > If you replace the original pack (288V/4Ah?) with a NiMH pack of the
> same
> > voltage but higher capacity (e.g.-20Ah), will the charge software
> look for the
> > original capacity and kick in the charging as soon as it's down the
> 4Ah, or
> > does it watch voltage curves, too? I know the NiMH chemistry is
> rather "stiff",
> > not dropping voltage until it's near fully-discharged, and then hitting
> > 1.0V/cell quite abruptly, so I was just curious as to whether a
> software hack
> > is needed with larger-but-the-same battery pack.
> >
>
They may, but I wouldn't want to have to join a yahoo group just to answer a
top-of-the-head question! In fact, a simple yes-or-no is enough for me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remind me what is wrong with replacing the original Panasonic VRLA
batteries with other SLA, either gel or AGM chemistry?
The specs http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/chvs10.pdf tell me
that the pack is only 48 Ah at C/2 rate and it has 40-60 miles
range with lead (and careful, constant speed driving).
This can easily be achieved again by a battery replacement,
I do not see why the truck would not be usable as is with
fresh batteries. (Saves a lot of money ;-)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: S-10 oem on eBay
This will be interesting to see how much it goes for. Since the batteries
are dead and the PbA batteries are no longer available about the only option
with this would be to just ship it to EVBones and have a NiMH retrofit done.
I've talked with Jeff and they said these trucks are so heavily integrated
there's almost no chance you could ever put any other battery in there other
than what's supposed to be in there.
At least the seller is being honest. There is another owner of one of
these trucks locally who I think was the original owner and he put 50,000
miles on the original PbA pack before it finally was done. He did this by
never taking it below 50%. This was a few years ago I saw the truck right
before they got a new pack, so I'm guessing it must have been one of the
last lead packs obtainable right at the end of the EV1 support.
Dang it looks like it's in good shape otherwise.
Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
He posted his response, they batts are dead.
So tempting.
-Mike
On 4/10/06, Jim Coate wrote:
> 1997 S-10 EV on eBay in Holland, MA:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4629840591
>
> As a 1997, it would have been built with PbA batteries, so I think the
> posted range was optimistic in '97, and very optimistic now if it still
> has the original 9 year old pack in it. I have sent a question to the
> seller asking if the batteries have been replaced. The truck itself
> looks to be nice. These finds always leave me wondering where the truck
> has been hiding for the past 9 years.
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1997 Solectria Force
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Sharpe wrote:
> I have tried this. The cells are not defective. They have been neglected
> for about 5 years. There are 12 300 Ahr cells in total. I suspect they
> are massively sulphated. Procedures for wet cells don't seem to work
> on AGMs. Any other ideas?
What did happen when you applied a higher voltage for several days?
5 years dead is a *long* time! You may have the face the possibility
that they are not just slightly dead, but permanently dead.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want to use the full capacity of the larger pack,
then yes - you need to "upgrade" (replace) the Battery ECU.
That has other advantages as well,
using "dynamic SOC reporting" the battery convinces the Prius
that it is more than full while driving, so the electric
motors are always active, helping the gas engine.
AS soon as the accelerator is released, the SOC reported
is lowered, so the regen is encouraged to recharge the battery
(it will refuce to do regen if SOC is over about 80%)
Hope this is enough "top of the head"
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:34 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: Plug-in Prius question
> These folks have a clue.
>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/
>
> Mike
>
> > If you replace the original pack (288V/4Ah?) with a NiMH pack of the
> same
> > voltage but higher capacity (e.g.-20Ah), will the charge software
> look for the
> > original capacity and kick in the charging as soon as it's down the
> 4Ah, or
> > does it watch voltage curves, too? I know the NiMH chemistry is
> rather "stiff",
> > not dropping voltage until it's near fully-discharged, and then hitting
> > 1.0V/cell quite abruptly, so I was just curious as to whether a
> software hack
> > is needed with larger-but-the-same battery pack.
> >
>
They may, but I wouldn't want to have to join a yahoo group just to answer a
top-of-the-head question! In fact, a simple yes-or-no is enough for me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 01:41:46PM -0700, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Remind me what is wrong with replacing the original Panasonic VRLA
> batteries with other SLA, either gel or AGM chemistry?
> The specs http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/chvs10.pdf tell me
> that the pack is only 48 Ah at C/2 rate and it has 40-60 miles
> range with lead (and careful, constant speed driving).
>
> This can easily be achieved again by a battery replacement,
> I do not see why the truck would not be usable as is with
> fresh batteries. (Saves a lot of money ;-)
I think the batteries have a strange form factor. Which is no longer made.
Here is an example with NiMH batteries, I think the PbA is the same.
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/s10_pack_open.jpg
Doe!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 12:37:49PM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
<..snip..>
> 5 years dead is a *long* time! You may have the face the possibility
> that they are not just slightly dead, but permanently dead.
As Coroner, I thoroughly examined her
And she's not only merely dead
She's really most sincerely dead
Sorry :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If you want to use the full capacity of the larger pack,
> then yes - you need to "upgrade" (replace) the Battery ECU.
> That has other advantages as well,
> using "dynamic SOC reporting" the battery convinces the Prius
> that it is more than full while driving, so the electric
> motors are always active, helping the gas engine.
> AS soon as the accelerator is released, the SOC reported
> is lowered, so the regen is encouraged to recharge the battery
> (it will refuce to do regen if SOC is over about 80%)
>
> Hope this is enough "top of the head"
>
Yes, thanks! Is this process affected at all by using/installing the "EV-only"
button (or, for that matter, hard-wiring it in so it is always "on")?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello, I thought I'd share my thoughts after returning from Pennsyvannia with
my 'new' Solectria Force (Thanks David Patterson and Ebay!). My trip and
experience was very positive.
The first look was favorable, with a clean, well finished interior. A
digital Amp-hour gage seems pretty easy to understand, and the controls are
well laid out. I needed only a few minutes instructions to operate the car.
1) The Force needs the parking brake applied everytime you want to park.
There is no pin in the transmission to keep the car stationary. The car won't
start unless the parking brake is engaged as a safety feature.
2) When you put the car in reverse, a backup alarm sounds. The beep gets
louder depending on how hard you press the accelerator pedal. The car can roll
forward downhill when in reverse unless you are actively trying to go backwards.
3) Performance in my very short jaunt seemed just fine. The noises that the
car makes are DIFFERENT, so they kind of stand out and take some getting used
to. It is a quiet car overall.
4) Recharging is quite simple; it came with a cord adapter so I can plug it
into a 110ac outlet until I get my 220ac outlet installed at my house.
5) Towing a Solectria Force on a tow dolly worked really well (rear wheels on
the ground, front wheels up on the trailer). The user manual does not
recommend towing the car with all four wheels on the ground. You just have to
make sure that the parking brake is released. Note that the car has a warning
beep that sounds when the parking brake is released and the car is off, thus I
had a beep in the towed car the whole way back.
6) Insurance was not a problem at all. I called my local State Farm agent
and he had no trouble adding the car to the policy.
7) My next hurdle is to get the license plates and title transfered.
According to our local EV club, you can get a discount price of only $17.50 to
get your license plates here in Illinois. Hopefully, the local DMV will know
what I'm talking about when I ask for it.
8) Now that I have a car, I keep thinking about how to recharge at places. I
can understand why the National EAA is focused on adding charging stations! I
hope to get involved in the effort locally.
I'll post again after doing my first commute!
Best regards,
Todd Martin
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