EV Digest 5426
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV Charging station
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Garages, was Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV Charging station, Hystarical Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!) More
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Power/Electric Meter
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Power/Electric Meter
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Eagle Picher Horizon 1250 battery
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hybrid legalities
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV Charging station
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV Charging station (sizing)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I think we're talking apples and oranges here because I'm thinking of
the planetary gear drive CVT used in the Prius, and apparently you're
thinking of the V-belt varible diameter pulley like you find on a
scooter? These are completely different beasts, and not the only CVT
options devised so far.
Honestly I have only a passing familiarity with each one, though I did
do a search and this hit seemed pretty informative:
http://www.me.dal.ca/~dp_04_14/Design%20selection.doc
<http://www.me.dal.ca/%7Edp_04_14/Design%20selection.doc>
I still see the biggest issue is the lack of a need for a CVT system
with an electric motor with a large power band.
Danny
Ray Wong wrote:
In general, the public demand is much greater for some form of automatic
shifting. From the information I researched, the current automatic
transmission is about 85% efficient. Current automobile CVTs are at 90%
efficiency. The automatic shift manual transmission is the best overall at
over 92% efficiency.
The appeal of the CVT is in the simplicity of the design (cheaper) with only 3 main parts for a continuous shifting transmission. For a fuel engine, the CVT can be designed to keep the engine running at it's peak fuel efficiency rpm.
I like the simplicity of the CVT and am currently using one on my EZE Sport Bike (Honda F4 conversion). It has two Etek motors, Comet CVT and 96 volts of Hawker Odyssey. I was planning to try the series parallel switching but the CVT has worked surprisingly well so I have stuck with the CVT.
The Comet CVT I am using on my EZE motorcycle is of the type used in snowmobiles. There are number of snowmobile CVTs ranging from 25hp to +100hp. Unfortunately there are very few CVT around that would work in an automobile. The automobile CVTs such as the Audi Multitronic are integrated into the engine and would probably not be compatible with an EV.
If I were to guess, the CVT on the EZE is running at about 85% efficiency. CVT are well proven in scooters, snowmobiles and quads. Belt reliability is maybe a concern but they are only $35 for a kevlar belt. Most of the automobile CVTs are using steel belts that last much longer.
Why do I like the CVT?
At the low end I am geared for about 25 mph top speed before the CVT begins to shift. That gives me 2 to 3 times the low end torque of a direct geared bike with a 60 mph top speed. I can also adjust the shift range to maintain constant rpm from 25mph up to say 60mph and then let the motor rpm rise to my top speed of say 80mph. All of this is done with just a twist of the throttle. Simple.
EZESPORT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just had the SLI battery die in my ICE Tercel - it's been neglected
for about 8 month (the car no longer can pass smog test and waiting
to get donated anyway...). When I tried to recharge it, it didn't take
any current - classic sulfation or depletion symptom. Water level is OK
but electrolyte I think is pure water by now. Anyway, tried to
experiment and charge with unlimited voltage and 2A current limit.
Well, the voltage shoot to 60V or so, and kept bouncing back to
~17...20V and again to ~60V. One cell smoked, and the sound from it
was like internal small sparks as if grids got shorted in some
places and those shorts were burned away resulting in sparks.
Other cells were fine. I captured it on camera:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/sli.mov - 600kb file
Anyway, what I was going to say, internal sparks in a battery
apparently very possible thing. And if there is H2 around,
kaboom is pretty much guaranteed. This most likely
what happened. If your battery was not sulfated or deeply
depleted, it was defective and the grids almost touched
each other. When they got close enough, they sparked as any
electrical short as soon as you push any current through.
Victor
James Massey wrote:
At 04:52 PM 28/04/06 -0400, James Jarrett wrote:
<snip>
I connect the jumpers to the E-8 positive terminal. As soon as I
touch it to
the positve lead of the battery pack *BANG* there was an explosion as
loud as a
shotgun blast. The first battery in the string (the one that the
negative
jumper cable was connected to) exploded. Oddly enough, it was the
battery
farthest from the one I had just made the connection to.
Anyway it blew off it's caps and almost blew off the top of the
battery. There
is a 10" semicircular crack on the top. Oh yeah, I managed to get
sprayed by
battery acid. I was wearing safty glasses, so a quick shower and I'm
fine, but
What the @#$%^&* happend?
G'day James, and all
The hydrogen in the battery blew up - the why of it you'd need to do a
"battaupsy" and see what in the battery flashed to cause it.
The only one I've had a close encounter with was years ago at my first
job - my boss had me welding and got too close to a batttery, a weld
spark got onto the battery and it sounded exactly like you described.
Regards
James Massey
--
Thank you and best regards,
Victor Tikhonov
President and CEO
Metric Mind Corporation
http://www.metricmind.com
10645 SE Malden Street
Portland OR 97266-8028 USA
503-680-0026 ph
503-774-4779 fx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neato, but how many batteries can take 400 amp charge rates?
OK, these nanoelectrode lithium batteries could, if they were really
huge. But currently they're pretty much Unobtanium for EVs.
Danny
Joe Smalley wrote:
Rich has a charger designed for 400 Amps and it has been demonstrated into
resistors. He does not have big enough wires in any battery packs to charge
a battery. IIRC the wires are expected soon.
You do not want to use taps. It seriously unbalances the battery pack and it
is tough to get the pack back into balance.
The inductor is about the size of a golf car tire.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
different culture though same for me
:^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Hi There! (Introduction)
> Nikki,
>
> Don't you know?
> Garages are not for cars,
> they are to store the stuff that you cannot get into
> your closets any more.
> (I think around here less than half the people actually
> have a car in their garage, even though most are 2-car
> garages as required by building code)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any idea what is the efficiency for one-speed reduction gearbox, llke
in French EVs or those that Victor offers at Metricmind? One could
think that these provide still higher efficiency when you have no
clutch, fewer rotating gears etc,?
Seppo
Ray Wong kirjoitti 29.4.2006 kello 10.25:
In general, the public demand is much greater for some form of
automatic shifting. From the information I researched, the current
automatic transmission is about 85% efficient. Current automobile
CVTs are at 90% efficiency. The automatic shift manual
transmission is the best overall at over 92% efficiency.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 23:10:27 -0600, Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>If you were talking about me, I do have this available:
>
>http://www.evsource.com/tls_blowers.php
>
>It's not real cheap, but they're new and reliable.
What kind of motor is that?
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I may add my twopennoth to this discussion.
I don't personally see the need for CVT with an electric
motor.Perhaps it's my lack of knowledge in this area but it does seem
like an awful lot of extra work to add one. For no-gear changing
simplicity surely the best option (as others have discussed) is to
put a single speed reduction box in and use a high spec motor?
On the other hand, I do admire the technology in the CVT box found in
Hondas. We have a Honda Prelude which has been at the dealer all week
having £760(!!) of work done on it to pass it's annual MOT test.**
We were given a small-ICE model of the Jazz (which I believe is
called a "fit" over in North America). It had CVT transmission and I
had to say that I was impressed. It seemed to let me be more
efficient than a standard automatic but of course, not quite as
efficient as a manual.
**(Yes, I could have done the work myself but quite frankly I'm not a
fan of modern ICEs as they usually have restricted space to work on
under the hood, require specialist "marque" tools and have extra
electronic systems best left alone ;)
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI All,
I think DAF made a CVT back in the 70's. It apparently let you go as fast
backwards as forwards!
I think it used a large rubber belt design and was prone to snapping.
Cheers
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: What is it with CVTs?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:53:03 -0700 (MST)
> Personally, I think the PM motor, contactor controller, and variable
> speed belt transmission setup looks the most promising for an
> inexpensive, efficient EV.
I suppose this would be true...if any of those items were readily
available at low cost. (Talking about car size components)
About the only way you are going to get this stuff cheap is if you are
exceptionally good at scrounging. However, if that's the case, you'll
probably build with whatever you get your hands on rather than being
picky.
I believe the only car size CVT that your going to find with any kind of
regualarity is the one from the Honda Insight. IIRC this is a computer
controlled CVT, so you might have to do some engineering to make it work,
then build custom adapter plates, etc.
Seems like a whole lot of work and expense to end up with a not very good
solution.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
_________________________________________________________________
Bounce Back from sickness and injury today.
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fclk%2Eatdmt%2Ecom%2FMOS%2Fgo%2Fnnmsngem0010000007mos%2Fdirect%2F01%2F&_t=753470755&_r=HM_Tagline_Apr06&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert,
Yup! It was called the "Variomatic" system. Daf 66s had them :)
Nikki
On Apr 29, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Robert Chew wrote:
HI All,
I think DAF made a CVT back in the 70's. It apparently let you go
as fast backwards as forwards!
I think it used a large rubber belt design and was prone to snapping.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nikki,
Looks like everyone is giving you some usefull info, but I thought I'd pop
in and add something.
You can save some weight and space by not bothering with the spare tyre.
If we assume your car ends up with 50 miles range, then you'll seldom be
more than 25 miles from home. In the unlikely event of a flat tyre, if
you can't limp home, you are still close enough to have a friend fetch the
spare out to you.
Cheers, Pete.
> So, if I do keep the gearbox I should be able to mount the motor
> quite easily to the bell-housing and use the motor in the same
> approximate place as the engine was, but with enough spare room for
> extra batteries, luggage space, or spare wheel as determined by the
> weight calculations when I've figured out what battery and motor and
> controller to go for!
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darin wrote:
> > Is it hard to import EVs to Canada? Might there be some
> > useful site for Ontario which I could use to find out more?
>
> http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/mj/import.htm
>
> the above link documents the process of importing a London taxi to
> Ontario. not an EV, obviously, but you'll likely have to go
> through the same channels.
Actually, the process may be different because the vehicle would be
accompanying Nikki as she immigrates to Canada. This can be different
from a Canadian buying and importing a vehicle (with luck, the vehicle
will be considered part of Nikki's personal effects and will be exempt
from taxes/duties).
See "RC4151 Settling In Canada":
<http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4151/rc4151-e.pdf>
And "RC4140 Importing a Vehicle into Canada":
<http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4140/rc4140-05e.pdf>
It appears that the main thing headache limiter is that the vehicle be
at least 15yrs old (not a problem in this case!).
Don Cameron wrote:
> BTW each province is a little different, so what
> applies in BC or Alberta may not apply to Ontario.
This is entirely true. For instance, BC (where Don & I live) requires a
safety inspection on vehicles imported from out of province, but does
not seem to require one on vehicles after they've been registered in BC.
Some sort of paranoia about vehicles being more prone to rust away if
they've been previously registered outside of BC, I suppose ;^>
Ontario, however, is less elitist and requires a safety inspection (a
"mechanical") to be performed on every vehicle before it can be licensed
for road use. A mechanical is not required on a brand new vehicle, but
is required anytime the ownership changes hands (and presumably when a
non-new vehicle is to be first licensed).
> I purchased a 68 Mini a few years back. It was an out of
> province vehicle (like the New Beetle). The inspection
> was done at a local certified garage.
> They check everything from safety equipment to rust, to
> structural soundness, to suspension - and **must** have
> seatbelts (regardless of year).
This bit about seatbelts may be specific to BC, or Don may be mistaken.
When I lived in Ontario (and worked in my father's shop, a licensed
vehicle inspection facility), the requirement was that vehicles had to
have seatbelts if they were originally fitted. As I recall, our '67
Volvo 122 had no problem passing the safety inspection (in the early
'80s) despite lacking rear seatbelts, because they were not part of its
original equipment.
You might want to have a read through the relevant section(s) of the
Ontario Highway Traffic Act (which seems to be section VI):
<http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm>
To get a feel for what the Ontario safety instpection is looking for.
One thing to note is that pretty much anywhere you settle in Ontario you
will find that quite a lot of salt is used on the roads in winter, and
so you might well not want to drive your restored Minor during the
winter months so as to preserve its life.
Since you are doing a restoration and conversion, depending upon the
time available before you move you might opt to ship the Minor restored
but not converted. I don't believe that you can have the vehicle
inspected until it is drivable anyway (my memory is failing me, but I
believe a road test is part of the inspection), but if you opt to do a
DC conversion you might find it more economical to buy the conversion
bits here rather than importing them to the UK from the US and then
exporting them back here.
Finally, speed limits on 2 lane undivided highways tend to be 80 or
90kph, while limits on divided highways are 100 or 110kph. Assuming you
settle in southern Ontario (e.g. metro Toronto area), drivers prefer to
travel at least 120-130kph, congestion permitting.
Cheers and good luck,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have read that they can be over 99% efficient. But I believe that might
be optimized for running at a fixed load/rpm. Otherwise I've seen 98+%
When people quote 90% for CVTs, I believe that is /supposed/ to read "up
to" 90%. Sort of like saying a particular ICE can develope "up to" 150
hp.
> Any idea what is the efficiency for one-speed reduction gearbox, llke
> in French EVs or those that Victor offers at Metricmind? One could
> think that these provide still higher efficiency when you have no
> clutch, fewer rotating gears etc,?
>
> Seppo
>
>
> Ray Wong kirjoitti 29.4.2006 kello 10.25:
>
>> In general, the public demand is much greater for some form of
>> automatic shifting. From the information I researched, the current
>> automatic transmission is about 85% efficient. Current automobile
>> CVTs are at 90% efficiency. The automatic shift manual
>> transmission is the best overall at over 92% efficiency.
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
> different culture though same for me
> :^)
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:14 PM
> Subject: RE: Hi There! (Introduction)
>
>
> > Nikki,
> >
> > Don't you know?
> > Garages are not for cars,
> > they are to store the stuff that you cannot get into
> > your closets any more.
> > (I think around here less than half the people actually
> > have a car in their garage, even though most are 2-car
> > garages as required by building code)
> >
And in CA there are NO basements or cellars, like in Fla. Probably a
water issue, as the whole place is in reality, a swamp<g>!People would look
in amazment when I asked if there were Cellers in CA.It would seem, with the
samdy soil, desert, you could do a full cellar?? The cathedral ceilings,
nowadaze in style, effecrively wipe out any chance of an attic, too.There is
an outfit out here in the East called " California Closets" They show most
effectrive use of a closet, with efficient use of space. When visiting Sandy
Eggo, I saw how the big garages piled high with crap and the car
outside,parked in the street. Or you wiggled out of a Honda, trying not to
start a avelanche of stuff, in the garage. Three bay garages are being the
norm on the SUV houses(McMansions) people are buying, around here. As well
as the drapes to cordon off large areas so they don't hafta HEAT the Vast
Excess! Oh ,but what beautiful garages! Nice windows, sheetrocked in,
breaker box in the corner.Perfect smooth concrete floor.Rather have that
then the Grand Central Station waiting room size living room. I guess it is
a taste issue?
Seeya
Bob
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> ...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: EV Charging station
> Neato, but how many batteries can take 400 amp charge rates?
> OK, these nanoelectrode lithium batteries could, if they were really
> huge. But currently they're pretty much Unobtanium for EVs.
>
> Danny
>
HI EVerybody;
I could take 400 amps to fill up the Rabbit!!Set up those charge
stations EVery 50 miles or so on the Interstates! Please! Yeah my 2 ought
cables would warm up a tad, but I can do 400 amp launches any time I want,
so cable-age isn't an issue. But you wouldn't be doing 400 amps very long to
chargitup. 10 -15 minutes, to get 80 percent that you can cram intio a led
acid battery. I mean IF I could, or did pull, 400 amps for 10-15 minutes in
an extreame case, loooong hill climb, or switching out locomotives at
Amtrak. Battery would be pretty tired, anyhow.Hell! Bob Aronson was cramming
200-250 amps back into the Mars 2 and Electric Hornets we did 'way back in
the late 60's when gas was 23 sense a gal! With an International Rectifyer
power supply , about the size of a portable typewriter, you old farts, like
me, remenber those? He used a 240 volt 3 phaze power supply. His claim to
fame, well justifyed, was he could chargitup in an hour. If ya babysat the
power supply box so it didn't FRY the batteries! But you could do the 80
percent thing pretty quick.
The EFP Investor gig was for Bob to drive the EV out to the Detoilet
Airport and pick the guy up, 25-30 mile OW trip, take him to lunch on the
way back, head back to EFP World Headquarters, on Eight Mile Road,do show
an' tell, plugitin, shop tour, meet the gang, us. Plane time,;run the guy
back to the Airport. Hey! This was very impressive back in the 60's when
golfcarts, not EVen NEV's were EV's to Joe Sixpack. Times they are a
changin' but EVen today, Bob's Show and Tell would be impressive. But Tom
Gage could one up Bob A.,with the T Zero, as I'm sure Tom has picked up
potential customers with the T Zero at the Airport of choice in SO Cal? I
feel you guyz shaking your head, but back then, this was heady stuff, and a
part of EV history. Being wafted along the freeway at 60-65 in an EV was
something, back then.EVen though it was a 4200 lb Renault R -10, later
upgrades to a AMC Hornet Station wagon, called the Sportabout.THAT was about
our best conversion rig, sporting 144 volt pack of Tri Polar Cobault Led
Acids. Actually threy were in that taller sweeper battery size ones you see
at the battery place when ya pick up your T 105's. Now EVerybody ELSE was
playing around with those awful Aircraft starter gennys at a wimpy 48 volts,
doing 40 or maybe 50 with a tailwind? The Hornet could do 90MPH easily. But
then again you had Bob Mc Kee building stuff that would be up to date today,
but nobody noticed or cared?Sigh! If Bob and Bob had gotten together on the
, say, Sundancer, history may have played out differently and Electric Fuel
Propulsion would be a household name like Ford or Edison?? Bob had a young
upstart fellow, Wally Rippel, working on an AC design for a controller motor
and charger in one setup. Wally went on to fame with Alan Coconi, and those
guys with AC propulsion, but it all started on 8 mile Rd in Detroit, WAY
back them. If Bob coulda pulled all the loose ends together?Gas @24 sence a
gal, who Cares!Zooom, go like hell up Woodward Ave!Loads of tire smoke up
there. You Detoilet guyz remember those daze!Wally? Got your Ears on?!Out
there in EV Land. Say "Hi"
So I'll need to cable in a Anderson red power plug 'dem BIG ones, like
ya see on forklift batteries disconnect, a couple of leads to my 120 volt
connections. mount the plug, say , under the front bumper, and show up at
yur shop<g>!?
> Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> >Rich has a charger designed for 400 Amps and it has been demonstrated
into
> >resistors. He does not have big enough wires in any battery packs to
charge
> >a battery. IIRC the wires are expected soon.
> > Wow! Hellova garage heater!
> >You do not want to use taps. It seriously unbalances the battery pack and
it
> >is tough to get the pack back into balance.
> >
Hammer it back with selective battery charging!
> >The inductor is about the size of a golf car tire.
> >Would have to be!!Darn reasonable size!
My two Farads wiorth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
Hi All;
Snip a bit>
> Anyway, what I was going to say, internal sparks in a battery
> apparently very possible thing. And if there is H2 around,
> kaboom is pretty much guaranteed. This most likely
> what happened. If your battery was not sulfated or deeply
> depleted, it was defective and the grids almost touched
> each other. When they got close enough, they sparked as any
> electrical short as soon as you push any current through.
>
> I just pulled a t -145 out of the Rabbit the other day. Drove out the
driveway and stepped on it to go up the hill when the car sputtered down to
about 100 amps, go any more and the volts would drop off. Thought it was the
Rapture's death throes, but watching the volt meter showed a drop in
voltage. But I limped down to the store and home again, figgured I'd passed
the point of no return, finish up the errand THEN fix it! Opened the
midships battery box cover, WOW! That one was smokin! A Trojan Teakettle, as
useless as a chocolate teakettle!! In a say 2 mile run it was bubbling and
the battery was hot as hell! It must have been stewing in it's own juices
charging overnite. As I NEVER had a battery get that hot that quick! Usually
after a fast freeway run from New Haven to home cooks them like that! So
THAT battery came out, another dropped in and I'm still in biz. What was
unusual is that the damn thing didn't blow, like the last one, I didn't EVen
get out of the driveway, when WHAM! it blew the cover and top off the
battery, the lug was still in the top freed from the plate grid part of the
battery. With my nice enclosed battery boxes it isnt as dramatic, blowing up
a battery, no more short circuses carrying conductive stuff in back. As
somebody pointed out that I do my share of blowing up batteries<g>! But as
James said As loud as a shotgun blast! He aint kidding, indoors, in the damn
car it is earacheingly LOUD! As the OTHER James(Massey) sez, keep the sparks
away when welding, too! I have taken out a battery, same way! I guess we
have to treat newbee batteries as bombs? So much for the Hydrogen Hiway, and
all that fadarah.That Old vid of the Hindinberg going down" Oh !the
Humanity"That famous Herb Morrison eyewitness account.You have ALL scene and
heard it? Sad, as the Zepelin Co had a perfect safety record til then!
Seeya at Joliet?
Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan and all,
This is the same type of blower fan motor that is on my GE 11 and Warp 9
motor. Its made by Dayton and you can get them in 12, 14, 90 and 180 VDC.
They will work in voltage between.
On my GE, it is mounted directly to brush cover. If you note the exhaust
port flanges, these can be bent to fit the curve of the motor brush cover
which is 1/8 thick steel. It is bolted to the brush cover with fine thread
hex head 10/32 screws to bolt holes that are tapped into the brush cover.
Used a 1/8 thick rubber gasket between the motor exhaust port and main
motor.
On my Warp 9, I used the same motor. The only thing about the Warp motors,
they have a screen brush cover and will not support this fan to well.
So, I went to a steel yard and had them cut me a 4.5 inch length off a 10
inch diameter steel tubing that is 10 gage. On steel tubing this reads 10
inch O.D. The inside diameter is 9.75 inches. The warp 9 motor is about
9.625 O.D.
I cut a curved segment out of this tubing to fit over the Warp 9 brush
screen. Place a 1/8 rubber gasket between the Warp 9 motor and this curved
segment which will be the base plate for the blower fan.
Now, you are saying, how do I bolt this base plate to the Warp motors, take
the base plate and rubber gasket and lay it on the motor with the face plate
front edge even with the front edge of the motor.
You will note, that in the face of these motors, there is four bolt holes
that are tapped in the face. So you take a 1/8 inch thick by 2 inch wide
flat steel and weld onto the fan base plate, that comes down over two of the
top holes on the front of the motor.
Be sure when you dry fit the base plate to the motor to position this
brackets, that you have the 1/8 thick gasket under the base plate, so you
can reference the motor bolt holes to the brackets.
I drill 3/8 holes for the 5/15 bolts, which allows for adjustment.
The blower fan is now bolted to this base plate with another 1/8 inch gasket
and 6 each 10/32 inch hex head screws. I used one of those plug and
connectors type, you now see in all the new autos to plug in this fan.
To remove this fan, all I have to do, is to unplug it and removed the two
5/16 bolts on the the face of the motor and the whole works comes off.
I also used one of these fans on the Zilla enclosure which also is water
cool and one to bring in outside air to the PFC-50 which is in another
isolated enclosure.
If you notice the air inlet in this fans, which is about 4 to 5 inches in
diameter for a 6 inch blower, that it has flat area, that a standard 6 inch
air filter housing and filter for a carb,fits this like a glove.
Place a thick air filter gasket around the raised portion of the inlet.
Bolt on a the base plate to the fan inlet with self tapping metal screws.
Install a cross bar across this filter base plate that has a 1/4 or 5/16
tapped bolt hole which is used for the long threaded rod to fasten the air
filter cover on.
Simple and it's works.
You can either control these fans with a standard switch or a three position
switch that can select Manual - OFF - Auto. In the Auto position, you can
use temperature control devices, that is used to control a motor relay on or
off for a desired working temperature.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
> Hi Rod and all,
>
> >Maybe one of these days I'll get
> >something Ryan can sell to EV'rs at a reasonable
> >price.
> >Rod
> >
> >
> We need to find a way to differentiate between Ryans on this list. My
> friends in high school all just called me "Bohm". I need something cool
> like Plasma Boy though.
>
> If you were talking about me, I do have this available:
>
> http://www.evsource.com/tls_blowers.php
>
> It's not real cheap, but they're new and reliable.
>
> I'm working with NetGain on getting a good interface with the WarP
> motors. Right now, it's all just custom work done by the end-user.
> Hopefully some ideas start breeding when I take a tour of the Warfield
> plant before the AFV races in Joliet in a few weeks :) Yes, I'll be
> there. I'm excited to meet everyone that I know by e-mail and the EVDL.
>
> -Ryan (Bohm...Plasma Bohm...Neon Ryan...Happy Man...Reverend
> Bohm...Father-No-Time...hmmm, just not clicking)
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where can one find a reliable (and inexpensive) electric/power
meter? I'm looking for a plug-through, re-settable device for
recording KWH usage...
Large thanks...
Wayne White
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Wayne;
I got a cheepo Chinesy Kil A Watt thing on line, surfed around or maybe
somebody on the List pointed it out. It reads amps, volts HZ and kwh, a bit
of over kill, but I hasve used it to read KWH charging.NOT for KWH driving.I
paid about 29 bux as I remenber.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Power/Electric Meter
> Where can one find a reliable (and inexpensive) electric/power
> meter? I'm looking for a plug-through, re-settable device for
> recording KWH usage...
>
> Large thanks...
>
> Wayne White
>
> If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
> suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NIce real Data!
Thanks Dennis!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Eagle Picher Horizon 1250 battery
> In a message dated 4/28/06 3:50:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > ubj: Re: Eagle Picher Horizon 1250 battery
> > Date:4/28/06 3:50:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> > From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-to:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > To:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Received from Internet:
> >
> >
> >
> > I received 1 battery today to test from Texas.It is a battery claiming
to
> > put
> > out 1250 amps at 8 volts.I used the same tester and test I use to test
> > hawkers and the Inspira JCI battery as well as many different
nicads.After 3
> > cycles
> > and with the battery at 90F the inital hit got to 714 amps and 7.75
volts
> > after 8 seconds the amps locked out at 540 at 6.21 volts. This was a
battery
> >
> > picked out of there stock for me to test.(There Best One)This battery
was
> > made in
> > CHINA and weighs 18.1lbs.The small 13ah hawker will out perform this
battery
> > at
> > hi power draws.It would be a waste of money to use as a ev drag race
> > battery.I will continue to cycle this battery to 15 cycles and will
report
> > the
> > findings. Dennis Berube
> >
> As with all AGM batteries I will not expect to see max power until at
least
> 10 cycles,and I would never bring batteries to the track in a FRESH
> condition,so we will see where this agm goes after a few days. D Berube
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Erik G. Burrows" wrote:
> Thanks for the comments! I'll definitely look into the differences
> between a "used" convert and trying to retitle it as "new".
>
> I'd love to run the "easier to ask for forgiveness than for
> permission" angle, but if I dump $20k into the conversion, I'd hate to
> see it rot in the driveway if I can't get it legal.
I agree; it's a scary thought. But, the laws are far from an impregnable
brick wall -- there are lots of cracks, holes, and even doorways. You
just have to find them.
If one DMV employee won't license it, try another. Or another office. Or
make a few superficial changes to placate them, and try again. There's
always a way!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "nikki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: What is it with CVTs?
> Hi Robert,
>
> Yup! It was called the "Variomatic" system. Daf 66s had them :)
>
> Nikki
> On Apr 29, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Robert Chew wrote:
>
> > HI All,
> >
> > I think DAF made a CVT back in the 70's. It apparently let you go
> > as fast backwards as forwards!
Hi EVerybody;
> > Just like the Detroit, Raush Lang and Baker EV's of the Victrola Record
era. The drum controller didn't care if you stepped down on the reverse
pedal. Damn cars were hard enought to steer forward , much less in reverse,
with the tiller steering!
> > I think it used a large rubber belt design and was prone to snapping.
It never BROKE for us. They would slip with a howl sounding like a gas
car doing a brakestand, If you stepped on the power too hard. They wouldn't
do for drag racing, but for niormal driving they could handle it just fine.
My two belts worth
Bob
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> I have 480 3phase at work, man I would like to plug into that! but at
> work I am there long enough to top off completely, it is at home I need
> to speed things up.
>
> I like what was said about using forklift packs, what voltages do they
> come in. better than submarine batteries,I had thought of that too,
> because it is part of the local economy. available, serviceable, etc.
Forklift packs are typically 24v, 36v, or 72v. They are actually a big
steel box with individual 2v cells packed inside, so they can be built
for other voltages. They tend to be very heavy, high amphour
(500-2000ah), and built to last for a decade or more of daily deep
discharges.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List Re: EV Charging station"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: EV Charging station (sizing)
> ok, lets assume for the dump charge scenario we want to go with a
> professional and safe setup.
> lets also asume for the sake of calculation that a person would want or
> need 10 miles of "boost" .
>
> Given 300Wh/mile that is 3kwh
> if we compress that to 10 min it is only 18kw, that is 75 amps @
> 240Volt. a pfc50 can handle this?( or is that only to a lower packV)
> >From a consumers viewpoint 10 min is actually a lot, enought that i
> would classify it as fast chargeing not dump chargeing.
> I am just trying to be realistic for the NON-EV people trained in the
> art of 3 min pumping.
Yup a PFC75 can.. Or John Wayland's can if he has 18Kw to pull from.
At 10 minutes I doubt it would even get to full power thermal cooling. In 20
minutes it sure would.
>
> So trying for 5min makes that 150Amps
> Since we would want to also either minimize grid draw to keep costs down
> it seems like we would either need a 480V 3 phase hookup to pull about
> 60Amps(reasonable) at 480 3Phase to push 150A 240V into a pack
> requireing a 1/0 charge port(Anderson SB175)
Yup that's within the 75K range... and I Use a Anderson SBE-700. Yea..check
it out at Andersonpower.com
>
> or a dump pack of 4-6 48V forklift batteries and a boost version of the
> charger
>
> How do we prevent someone from dump chargeing into an almost full pack
> with the wrong charger setting, ie 300V charger setting and 244V pack
> (opps, i changed the pack since last charged at this station....)
One: ya don't and you hand him a fine for being stupid and breaking stuff.
Two; you ask and then set the system. Keeping him away from stuff.
Three; you sense his system and if it's different that what he says... No
Juicy.
four: he has a card swipe and the system takes care of the detail. No
Ruffians allowed.
Force him to do it him self and be fully responsible for damage and
foolishness.
>
> Measure voltage prior to activating charger and monitor current and rate
> of voltage change to estimate SOC?
> ie
> connect
> press start
> charger measures voltage
> charger applies 10amp load and measures voltage again
> SOC is estimated and decision to charge is made (will this work?)
> current limit is imposed during charge and accumulated estimate of SOC
> is updated
> System shuts down when 80% SOC is estimated or timer runs ourt,
> whichever is first.
>
This is a nice charger control sequence.. More is need to be TOTALLY safe..
How much smarts and interlocking is needed???? There are long lists written
by qualified Safety Nazis...
What is needed and is reasonable... is what will rule.
>
> or we could require acces to a regbus?
Absolutely required for more than modest charge rates.
Unless you ASSume that the setup is perfect an safe. At 200 amps it won't
be.
This is WHY you won't be seeing a Manzanita Dump charger. Things get out of
line in a hurry at 200 amps and above.
Anybody doing Dump charging.. has no respect for the battery pack. There has
to be limits and feedbacks.
>
> or is amps of dump charge = factor * (acceptance - actual voltage)
>
Madman
--- End Message ---
