EV Digest 5475
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Gadget's triumph
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) re: Gadget's Triumph
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Off to the Races - rain, an' Stuff.
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Plasmaboy racing submitted to digg.com
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: my own outlet
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Battery Monitors?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: TdS Report #12: Greasecar
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) High Voltage Nationals - Cancelled
by John Emde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: my own outlet
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: my own outlet
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Battery Monitors?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: I need advice/ Making a GEM go farther and faster.
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Drill Bits for Plastics, Plexiglas, & Acyrlics
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: my own outlet
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: my own outlet
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: my own outlet
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Comparison
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) TdS Report #15: Team Profile: Woodstock and Moritz
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
A guy in my autocross club put a Corvette engine, tranny, and rear
end into an old Triumph! I think it is a TR6. He recently took fast
time of the day with it. The Corvette motor makes about 400 ft. lbs.
of torque.
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm waiting for Reverend Gadget to post pictures of this car
> with the GT6 body. I wish I knew what kind of range and
> performance it had, so I could get an idea what to expect
> from mine if I were to build a similar setup.
>
> My GT6 has a TR6 transmission and differential. They're far
> sturdier than the stock Spitfire units or GT6 units. The
> convertible Spitfire transmissions weren't built for more
> than 80 horsepower, GT6 transmissions weren't engineered to
> take more than 110 horsepower and even have problems with a
> bone stock GT6 engine of that output... A Triumph TR6
> transmission and differential can repeatedly take over 200
> horsepower and 200 lb-ft according to the Triumph racers
> I've spoken with. It's not an exact bolt in, but it's as
> close as you'll get. Seek out this transmission and
> differntial, as it will be very rewarding to keep a
> transmission in regards to range and acceleration, unless
> you want a twin motor setup. Twin WarP 9"s, Zilla 2k, 25
> Exide Orbitals, and a Toyota truck rear end would be quite
> nice as well...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will post as soon as I get it painted... but I have
been driving it daily. As for performance, Well let's
just say there are little burnouts in front of my
favorite places and quite a few donuts in my parking
lot. The clutch has stopped slipping, I guess it just
needed to settle in. Ten miles is a comfortable range
right now. (60% DOD)I will be going in for some LRR
tires next week.
I think my range will improve a lot with the new
tires, a toe in adjustment and connection of my regen
generator. It's hard not to take advantage of the
acceleration the car has, but that does hurt the
range. KABC news will be here on Monday to do an
interview. I think I'll show them a burnout too.
Gadget
I'm waiting for Reverend Gadget to post pictures of
this car
with the GT6 body. I wish I knew what kind of range
and
performance it had, so I could get an idea what to
expect
from mine if I were to build a similar setup.
My GT6 has a TR6 transmission and differential.
They're far
sturdier than the stock Spitfire units or GT6 units.
The
convertible Spitfire transmissions weren't built for
more
than 80 horsepower, GT6 transmissions weren't
engineered to
take more than 110 horsepower and even have problems
with a
bone stock GT6 engine of that output... A Triumph TR6
transmission and differential can repeatedly take over
200
horsepower and 200 lb-ft according to the Triumph
racers
I've spoken with. It's not an exact bolt in, but it's
as
close as you'll get. Seek out this transmission and
differntial, as it will be very rewarding to keep a
transmission in regards to range and acceleration,
unless
you want a twin motor setup. Twin WarP 9"s, Zilla 2k,
25
Exide Orbitals, and a Toyota truck rear end would be
quite
nice as well...
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Looks like the EV Powers are coming together. Just talked to Jim Husted, J
Wayland and Mark Farver, all in the last hour, while doing my E mail at
Warfield Electric's World Headquarters in Frankfort Ill. Where I dropped the
batteries back in the Rabbit and am topping it off. Pulled in last nite to
Frankfort, 8 miles from Joliet, spent the nite at the "Abe Lincoln" Motel,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a nite.Weather is still shitty, cold and rainy, but it might
improve?
My trip was delightfulkly unremarkable, the trusty 78 Ford van just
chuffled along fine( Exhaust manifold leak)It looks like a piece of crap, but
runs better than EVer, towing the Rabbit with about half the batteries in the
van, for ballast! You don'tthink of batteries as ballast in veghicles, at least
EV's. Gotta love those old Ford 300ci engines, they just runalong, about 2
grand, happytobe alive. After all, most 78 Ford econoline Vans are tool sheds
or parts storage by now<g>!Never finished up the trailer so I just flat towed
with the home made tow bar.Went to Mansfield OH on 80, 76,71 and other sundry
interstates as I didn't wanna do the damn toll roads withj 4 axles! Gees!v Gas
is high enough WITHOUT the Ohio and Indianna toll Road$$'s Becides the old rt
30, Lincoln Highway, mentioned in several Victrola songs in my record
collection, like RT 66 has a certain histyorical cachet. Except for about 50
miles of two laner, scarry in the rain with 18 wheelers passing you
at 200 mph, in the rain! The rest is 4 laner, cuts just south of Chicago so
you miss the stop and go wall-to-wall traffic in Chicagoland on the interstates.
So I chuffled along about 45-50 in the rite lane for MILES and MILES. Left
CT about 9am, slept aboard at the PA Ohio border and ran in to Ill that nite
with an afternoon nap, along the way, it is sleep inducing with the rain on the
tin roof of the Ford.Was beautiful sunny an' warm, in, say, Scranton PA, rain
started in about Akron Ohio, and EVer since last nitye when I pulled in to
Frankfort, it was FORTY TWO degreez! Feh! So much for spring or summer!
Now guyz are chiming in from afar on the cell, so we may be rained out,
but we can, at least have a EV dinner or two, and renew hard times or GOOD
times??
So see ya all later, like 3 pm at Warfield's for the cool shop tour?
As for tonite? Somewhere at Joliet tonite, motel? Where ya gunna be at?
Seeya?
Bob, beginning EV weakend!?
John Emde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rod et all
The EVent will still be held even if it rains slightly. The track
has excellent equipment to prep the track.
There is NO rain date. We have to make it happen. According to the
weather trackers, they are following some sort of front coming from the
northwest. It seems a truck pulling a trailer with a white car plastered
with decals is causing a disturbance. That coupled with some unknown
motorcycle hauler coming out of the mountains near Denver is causing a
high pressure system to collide with a parallel disturbance beginning in
Utah. A warming trend emanating from Florida is expected to arrive about
the same time that an easterly hot air system approaches. This coupled
with all the wind from the windy city of Chicago should make for a
pleasant day in Joliet. NO rain NO rain Think NO rain.
John
PS : Remember that smell in the air following a spring rain. I smell
something in the air now and it smells like at least TWO new NEDRA
records being broken.
On Thu, 11 May 2006 12:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Rod Hower
writes:
> What happens if it rains on Saturday? will they
> postpone
> till Sunday or cancel?
> Thanks,
> Rod
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well after a decent start, the digg submission seems to have stalled
at 18 diggs. I'd encourage anyone who'd like to help change the view
of a large audience of tech geeks to create a profile on www.digg.com
and digg the story (
http://digg.com/mods/$20k_dragster_blows_away_Vipers_police...Oh_yeah,_it_s_ELECTRIC_(video)
).
-Mike
ps- FYI, digg is a tech news site where user votes, and not an editor,
determine what reaches the front page.
On 5/12/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi John & all,
I just submitted Plasmaboy Racing to digg.com. If (big if) it gets to
the front page you could expect to see a lot of traffic. I caution you
because depending on your service agreement with your provider you
could hit your bandwidth limits.
I think White Zombie's just about the coolest thing on wheels and I
hope that the digg community gets as fired up about it as I do.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/11/06, Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I did something similar to this as well, for use before I installed
the whole charging station that Bruce mentioned. I ran a 2" PVC under
the sidewalk with careful use of a water jet so as not to compromise
the support for the sidewalk.
I've seen this done also by hammering the pipe through the earth, then
using water to remove the dirt that was forced into the pipe. This
disturbs the surrounding soil even less.
Of course, when a kid finds the outlet and sticks a fork in it, you
will go to jail.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anything, you might want to look into the IB4200shv cells that were recently
released. battlepack.com carries these cells, and also provide a nice discharge
graph of them at a 70 amp continous drain. Might be something to consider if
your going this route.
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The problems with Nicads like the
Sanyos, is you cannot charge them
with a badboy. They have to be peak detected and thermally detected.
If you don't then they will easily become exothermic. Meaning you
cannot stop them from overheating, venting, and dieing. I've seen it
happen dozens of times.
I rebuild nimh/nicad packs for my customers. Everyone that tried to
charge nicads in cylindrical form factor with anything other than the
right charger, smokes the cells no matter how closely they watch ove r
them, including me.
The only nicad you can treat like a lead acid battery are the flooded
types.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hmmm.. more flip flopping... :)
>
> Need 20 miles non-freeway on Jetta conversion with Warp 9. 250 times
> per year. Overnight (14 hours) charging time. AGM cost per mile too
> high. Don't want flooded mess and slow car. Plus hate the idea of
> having to rip it all apart every 19 months and the hassle of obtaining
> the new batteries and recycling the old.
>
> So...
>
> The AGMs:
>
> Figure a safe max motor voltage at 1000 A would be about 160 V and
> accounting for sag, and sizing so 20 miles is 40% DOD when new (240
> WH/mile):
> 20 Deka 9A31 for 240 V, about $150 each or $3000 total after factoring
> in mail order shipping or local taxes/truck rental
> Real world capacity when new and in ev, about 60 AH, or 14.4 KWH. At
> 400 cycles, 30 AH, or 7.2 KWH
> 1470 lbs including 100 lbs for mounting. Expected range in Jetta,
> about 60 miles to 100% and 20 miles to 33% DOD when new, and 20 miles
> at 66% DOD at 400 cycles. 1000 A capable when new (estimated sag at 90
> F to 8 V per battery). Somewhat less max current halfway through the
> life.
>
> Needs PFC plus regs with external loads and fans, about $3100. Or
> homebuilt 20 x Meanwell 500 watt multicharger $130 + $30
> microcontroller doodads, about $3200
> Multicharger will be temperature compensated per battery and 400
> cycles might be possible. PFC + regs with no temp compensation, maybe
> 300 cycles. Halfway through the cycle life, performance drops will be
> noticed.
>
> Needs 50 A 240 VAC circuit to handle initial charging load with
> multicharger or 30 A 240 VAC for PFC. $1000
>
> Battery rails. Haven't priced aluminum lately, so guessing $200.
>
> Jetta suspension, tires, aluminum wheels, brakes upgrades to handle
> weight, maybe $3000.
>
> 1000 hours labor.
>
> So best case that's $3000 + $3200 + $1000 +200 + 3000 = $10400,
> recurring costs for batteries every 19 months $3000 + 12 hours to
> procure and change out.
> Cost per mile for AGMs: $3000 / 20 miles x 400 cycles = $0.375
> Cost per mile if retiring battery system and/or car in 10 years (to
> compare with one time build cost of Sanyos)(cost per mile would in
> reality be worse because of inflation)(6 packs total is close enough):
> ($7400 + 6 x $3000)/ 6 x 20 x 400 cycles = $0.52
>
>
> The Sanyos:
>
> Figure a safe max motor voltage at 1000 A would be about 160 V and
> accounting for sag, and sizing so 20 miles is 40% DOD when new (210
> WH/mile):
> 2400 Sanyo KR-4400D nicads (3.8 mohm each) in 16 150 cell parallel
> strings for 180 V (Sanyos are much stiffer than Dekas), including
> shipping, about $4.5 x 2400 = $10800
> Real world capacity when new and in ev, about 70.4 AH, 12.6 KWH. At
> 2500 cycles, 35.2 AH, or 6.3 KWH
> 916 lbs including 150 lbs for boxes and mounting. Expected range in
> Jetta, about 60 miles to 100% (it's lighter than AGM, so better
> KWH/mile) and 20 miles to 33% DOD when new, and 20 miles at 66% DOD at
> 2500 cycles. 1000 A capable new. When old, would expect less sag than
> old AGMs.
>
> These two documents suggest 2500 cycles would be reasonable with 33%
> DOD when new using Sanyos, especially the satellite doc which
> specifically mentions the Sanyo KR-4400D getting 2100 to 3700 cycles
> at 40% DOD (I presume 40% is when new). And my experience with Sanyos
> (25 years RC electric planes) also suggests the figures are real:
> http://aria.seas.wustl.edu/SSC01/papers/5-7.pdf
>
http://www.isco.com/WebProductFiles/Applications/201/Nicad_vs_LeadAcidBatteries_TechBulletin.pdf
>
> Badboy 240 VAC overnight charger- bridge rectifier + 16 fan cooled 50
> to 100 watt resistors (need to determine experimentally) to drop the
> 340 V peak voltage and be a quasi-constant current source. 120 Hz
> ripple is ok on nicads right? If so no filter caps, better power
> factor without caps too. Connectors, box, and stuff. $100. Could also
> be done with 120 VAC 20 A circuit and a voltage doubler, though power
> factor would suffer because of the caps.
>
> No regs needed. Cells charged at 440 mA are self equalizing.
>
> No new 240 VAC circuit needed. Additional outlet on dryer circuit ok.
> $100.
>
> Because of the lower weight, the only body upgrade that would be
> needed would be cargo springs in the rear. $300
>
> 16 150 A 300 V diodes (under normal operation, slow recovery should be
> ok, but I can envision a scenario where it would blow, so fast
> recovery will be used, probably paralleling cheaper 50 A matched
> devices) to join the strings outputs safely with some margin. 16 1 A
> 300 V diodes to keep current out of the badboy resistors during
> dischaged, $100. Also with this, each string will go through its own
> cables terminated at a single point near the speed control. The gauge
> will be chosen such that the drops are equal from each string to the
> termination points, regardless of the distance. This should hopefully
> help balance out the current usage from each string at high amp draws.
> Ideally one would also want matched cells, but one has to be
> realistic...
>
> Assembly and cooling will need careful thought. I'm thinking 3 boxes,
> two smaller ones up front, a larger one in the trunk. Each box would
> have slotted sides to hold removable "cards" of batteries, each card
> one string, like 5 rows of 30 cells layed out flat side by side on a
> 16 x 39 inch panel. I'm thinking 1/8 inch fiberglass panels with a few
> spacers in between glued to the cells would be sufficiently strong to
> hold 48 lbs per. The box long sides could be 1/4 inch fiberglass, and
> the slottled sides, doubled up and epoxied and screwed such that the
> slots are 1/4 inch deep and in between sections 1/2 inch thick.
> Aluminum rails could attach the 1/2 thick sections to the car frame,
> and another rail underneath the middle of the horizontal front box to
> prevent sag. Silicone rubber to hold the cells together and on the
> panels, and so bad ones could be cut out without too much trouble.
> Interconnects would be 1/16 inch thick x 3/8 inch copper straps and
> would have less than a volt drop over 150 cells at 62 A. One box would
> sit vertically behind the grill and hold 3 cards, and another would be
> horizontal over the motor and transmission, holding 5 cards. In the
> trunk would be a box holding 8 cards. On the narrow top or back side
> of the front boxes would be a bunch of 120 MM muffin fans, like 6 on
> each, and the trunk box would have an outside inlet and centrifugal
> blower to exhaust warm air to the outside. I'll have them temperature
> controlled, so in the winter would be off or slow (nicads can vent
> during overcharge if they're too cold). And I'll have a temp monitor
> to stop the charging in case of fan failure or loss of fan power. $500
>
> Question: Where does one buy 4 x 8 foot fiberglass panels in 1/8th and
> 1/4 inch thickness? What different grades are available?
>
> More on the interconnects: They would have to be soldered copper
> strips to get 62 A without too much drop and heat. I've soldered big
> cells before with the following method: 75 watt 1/2 inch Weller chisel
> iron, sand oxides off the button top and a small patch on the bottom
> with the Dremel, liquid rosin flux on the sanded areas and
> interconnect, tinning both, doing it quickly with the minimum amount
> of heat on the cell, fluxing again, then quickly sweating. I usually
> create a jig to hold everything in place during assembly. One question
> I've never found the answer to is, does quick minimal heat soldering
> significantly damage the cells? With little AA cells, it's not hard to
> cook the plastic surround on the top, but the big cells use button
> tops, and seem much harder to cook.
>
> I've seen braid used as interconnects. The idea being that solid is
> too rigid and damages the cells during heating/cooling expansion and
> vibration. I've never experienced any issues using solid, and braid
> wicks solder, adding weight and requiring more solder be used, so I'm
> not sure about that idea.
>
> To help monitor health and isolate trouble I'll make a
> microcontroller/display doodad to monitor the voltages of each string
> during charge, and a shunt in each string during discharge to monitor
> current from each string. If voltage on one string is higher during
> charge and current lower on discharge, that string would likely have a
> high resistance cell needing replacement. Then I'd have to pull the
> string and measure each cell with a load. PIA but Sanyos are pretty
> tough so hopefully wouldn't be too often. $100
>
> 400 hours labor.
>
> Performance will be better at 550 lbs lighter.
>
> So that's $10800 + $100 + $100 + $300 + $100 + $500 + $100 = $12000,
> recurring costs every 10 years $10800 + 80 hours to procure and change
> out. And recurring is a non-issue as I expect to be using a new
> battery technology when the time comes.
> Electric costs may be somewhat higher than AGM because of the wasteful
> badboy, but probably not enough to count.
> Cost per mile for Sanyos: $10800 / 20 miles x 2500 cycles = $0.216
> And cost per mile if you figure it's a one time build = $12000 / 20 x
> 2500 cycles = $0.24
>
> Saft flooded nicads I've considered but ruled out due to their low max
> current, higher initial costs, difficulty of obtaining, plus cooling,
> watering, and corrosion complexities, and real world cost per mile
> (2000 cycles at 40% DOD for $12000) being higher than the Sanyos. The
> low current is the real deal killer, as I've read posts here that 250
> A is about the safe long life max for the 100 AH batteries.
>
> BB600 flooded nicads would deliver the current, but PIA (Pain In the
> Ass) factor much higher because of watering (how do you water when you
> can't see the sides), corrosion, plus only the currently unobtainable
> surplus cells are affordable.
>
> So my initial cost is fairly close with AGMs or Sanyos. My cost per
> mile is lower with the Sanyos. Less conversion labor time with the
> Sanyos. The Sanyos + badboy would be a lot more idiot proof (Murphy
> says I screw up the design and my multicharger cooks the first AGM
> pack). Replacement PIA factor is lower with Sanyos even though the
> averaged labor time per mile would be about the same, because it's
> probably a one time build, as better batteries will hopefully be
> available by the time these wear out.
>
> Hmmmm.. despite the obvious tedium and complexity of assembling 2400
> cells, I like the Sanyo idea better. It'll be like a RC model car,
> only bigger and without the remote. :-P
>
> Comments and critique appreciated (like you're crazy!) :)
>
> Brad Baylor
>
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
Do you still have those NiCad battery monitors available? I lost the link
to them.
thanks
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is OT for the EVlist. I'm interested it this stuff but it should be
marked OT. Thank you. LR.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <EV@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: TdS Report #12: Greasecar
TdS Report #12: Greasecar
Cosimo Ferrante is standing next to this _tiny_ lime-green and white car,
wearing a teeshirt that declares MadHouseMinis.com. What are we looking
at?
"This is a 1980 Austin Mini Clubman, made in the United Kingdom. In about
1970
they facelifted the Mini Cooper, and offered the round-nosed Cooper or the
flat-nosed Clubman. The Clubman was a popular style in Australia and New
Zealand, but it wasn't in Europe or the US."
But this isn't an original. It has been modified to make it into a
Greasecar,
that can run on waste vegetable oil. What had to be done? "We lengthened
lower section of the front nose to fit this Peugeot 1.5 liter diesel
engine
into it. That engine was popular in French and UK cars in the 1980s, but
never
intended for this body."
Cosimo did the car modification to make it ready for the Greasecar kit.
In the
rear boot there are two tanks. A welded aluminum tank for the vegetable
oil
has an internal heater and sleeved fuel lines to keep the vegetable oil
fluid,
and the original steel tank carries the diesel or biodiesel needed when
starting and stopping the car. Each tank has its own external filler cap,
labeled "Vegetable Oil Only" or "Diesel Oil Only".
Justin Craven is founder, owner and operator of Greasecar Vegetable Fuel
Systems LLC in Easthampton, MA, which offers a kit to convert a
conventional
diesel vehicle to run on vegetable oil. That is what was done to this
car.
Next to the diesel engine is a machined block with steel jacketed fuel
hoses
going into and out of it. When you start the car, the diesel tank is
connected
to the engine, through this block, by both source and return fuel lines.
Once
the engine is warm and the vegetable fuel is warm enough to flow, the
system
switches over to vegetable fuel by connecting the source and return lines
to
the vegetable oil tank. Finally, before shutting off the engine, the
vegetable
fuel is "purged" by running diesel fuel into the engine but leaving the
vegetable return line connected. Thus the diesel fuel displaces the
vegetable
oil, preparing the engine for its next cold start.
Justin started working with this technology in 1998. "We have been in
business
since the beginning of 2001. It was a slow start, but now with fuel
prices so
high people are looking for alternatives and small independent companies
like
Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems offer options that the larger
manufacturers
don't. Right now we are averaging 20 sales a day. Each kit is a full
secondary fuel system: tank, filter, all the valves, plumbing and wiring;
everything you need for the vehicle you are doing. The prices start at
$795
for most passenger vehicles and up towards $2000 for the larger pickup
trucks.
We have had people with limited automotive knowledge do the conversion,
but it
is a bit of a project, so it is not for everyone. But we also have
mechanics
in different parts of the country who can do the installation for you.
They
are listed on the website.
http://GreaseCar.com
"The newer Volkswagen TDI models are the simplest kits to install, with
the
most documentation and vehicle-specific parts. That and the Mercedes are
very
popular."
Oh. And the Greasecar Mini is still set up as a British right-hand drive.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have just been informed by Rt. 66 Raceway that the NEDRA and AFV Expo
EVent on Saturday May 13, 2006 has been cancelled due to rain and cold
weather. It is supposed to get down to the low 30's tonight and the track
surface is too cold and wet to draw the moisture out. No rain date has
been scheduled. If you know anyone that was planning to come, try to get
in touch and give them the bad news.
Regretfully
John Emde
www.fveaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis wrote:
> Of course, when a kid finds the outlet and sticks a fork in it, you
> will go to jail.
You've been watching too much TV :-)
Naturally, the outlet would have a GFCI. Basically, nothing happens if
little Igor sticks a fork in it. He'd have to go home and stick his fork
in any of the dozens of outlets there that do *not* have a GFCI!
Outdoor AC outlets are *everywhere* around here. Every home, store, and
garage has them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Correct,
I got several grounding rods 15ft into the ground by connecting a
water hose (I used copper pipe iso solid rods) and with a rather
gentle flow of water, I moved the pipes down, inch by inch it was
washing the dirt immediately in front of it away to the sides and
loosening up the ground. No heavy machinery necessary.
IF (and it's a big if) you do bring power to the sidewalk, then
make sure that you have a lockable box and keep it locked at
all times that you are not next to it.
(Make sure it can lock when plugged in)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 1:26 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: my own outlet
On 5/11/06, Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did something similar to this as well, for use before I installed
> the whole charging station that Bruce mentioned. I ran a 2" PVC under
> the sidewalk with careful use of a water jet so as not to compromise
> the support for the sidewalk.
I've seen this done also by hammering the pipe through the earth, then
using water to remove the dirt that was forced into the pipe. This
disturbs the surrounding soil even less.
Of course, when a kid finds the outlet and sticks a fork in it, you
will go to jail.
-Mike
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Ooops,
That was supposed to go to John Lussmyer.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery Monitors?
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 21:43:19 +0000
Hi John,
Do you still have those NiCad battery monitors available? I lost the link
to them.
thanks
damon
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They are specially constructed to minimize rolling resistance. The sidewalls of
the tires do not deform as much as a standard tire making less of a flat spot
where it meets the road and minimizing the energy needed to roll it along the
ground. There are a few LRR options out there, but they are difficult to find
because there are no numbers readily available for all tires.
http://www.greenseal.org/resources/reports/CGR_tire_rollingresistance.pdf
I get more speed with them because they are a larger overall diameter.
J Mac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What is it about these Bridgestones that would make such a difference in
both range & speed?
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To:
>CC: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>Subject: I need advice/ Making a GEM go farther and faster. Date: Wed, 10
>May 2006 10:08:47 -0700
>
>It might be possible to shoehorn in 12 US batteries. They make about 5
>different versions of the 6v battery with 5 different weights from 59
>pounds to 70 pounds.. If you put on some B381 Bridgestones that might also
>make a difference. I suspect a very big jump in range with those tires.
>Adapters would be required. Just a couple of thoughts. You would get a
>huge jump with 6v batteries. The 12v batteries weigh around 500 pounds &
>the 6v batteries weigh about 700 pounds and would probably double your
>range. I'm sure you could find a way to fit in more batteries & with the
>combination of LRR tires it would go a bit faster and climb hills better
>which you would need for the added battery weight. Has anyone done this?
>The new GEM 6 passenger usese 9 8v batteries. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
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Since I see a lot of plexi battery covers; I just wanted to let you
know about this particular drill bit if you didn't already know of it:
http://browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=635
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On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 05:21:32PM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
> Mike Ellis wrote:
> > Of course, when a kid finds the outlet and sticks a fork in it, you
> > will go to jail.
>
> Naturally, the outlet would have a GFCI. Basically, nothing happens if
> little Igor sticks a fork in it.
I though that GFCI only tripped on imbalances.
Isn't it true that if you form a path from hot to neutral, then the GFCI won't
trip? Igor would need to stick the fork from hot to ground to trip it right?
> Outdoor AC outlets are *everywhere* around here. Every home, store, and
> garage has them.
I've noticed this too.
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Nick Austin wrote:
> Isn't it true that if you form a path from hot to neutral,
> then the GFCI won't trip?
Right...
> Igor would need to stick the
> fork from hot to ground to trip it right?
Nope. Any breaker will trip if Igor shorts the hot and neutral with a
fork; the GFCI protected outlet will also be rendered dead if Igor
creates a conductive path between hot or neutral and anywhere else that
the ordinary breaker doesn't protect against.
Roger.
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What I am going to do to recharge,
once I have a charger in my truck
(I'll explain that part later) is to install a
NEMA 6-20 duplex outlet with springloaded covers
on the house.
There is alreay a 5-15 duplex, so to avoid drawing attention
to a non-standard outlet, I simply make it look like the ones
already there, only make it capable of delivering almost 3x
as much power (240V 20A iso 120V 15A).
The only difference with the 5-15 outlet will be that one
pin won't go in, because it is turned by 90 deg, but nothing
else will be out of the ordinary.
Yes, I'll make sure it has GFCI on the 240V, so both legs will
switch off when either has a ground current.
Most likely I'll also have this outlet on a timer, so it is
powered only from midnight to 7 AM, with manual override.
My truck will get a cord, like a mouse with a tail - BIG mouse!
and I'll attach the cord to the bed, so it will normally lie in
the bed and it can be pulled out and plugged into the house
when I park in the driveway.
At work I have no available outlets, so I'll need to work with
the guy that does the maintenance to see if I can tap into one
of the yard lights or throw an extension cord off of the roof
(plus a timer to only have it powered from 9-5).
I'll have to pay for anything that is installed, as the company
is in the business of selling products, not electricity.
My charger will accept 85V AC - 200V AC (when the pack is low)
so I'll have a little step-down transformer between the cord
and the charger to make 200V from 240V.
I'll also make a NEMA 5-15 to 6-20 converter, so my cord can
also be plugged into a 110V outlet for opportunity charging.
(And a 10-30/50 and a 14-30/50 in case I encounter those)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:22 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: my own outlet
Mike Ellis wrote:
> Of course, when a kid finds the outlet and sticks a fork in it, you
> will go to jail.
You've been watching too much TV :-)
Naturally, the outlet would have a GFCI. Basically, nothing happens if
little Igor sticks a fork in it. He'd have to go home and stick his fork
in any of the dozens of outlets there that do *not* have a GFCI!
Outdoor AC outlets are *everywhere* around here. Every home, store, and
garage has them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Sounds good. i'll Email you direct so we can hook up. I would love to
compare notes.
TED,
Olympia, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
Ted,
Seeing that we live close to each other what's the possibility of
getting together on the weekend to compare charging systems. I live in
Tenino.
Kickgas
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ted C.
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
The person who owned the Porsche before me had a similar setup to what
your
talking about. The car had a bohn charger (Bad Boy Charger) in it. When
that
would get to the end of the charging cycle he would switch it over to an
single charger that would cycle though all the batteries using a relay
bank
he built for this purpose. Instead of LEDs like yours, he had a laptop
connected to a radio shack meter with an RS232 port. When the relays
would
cycle each battery it would take voltage measurements and log them on a
program he wrote. It worked pretty good for the most part. He told me he
over charged the pack a couple of times when something would go wrong
and
left it on the bad boy charger a little to long. So he removed the bohn
charger and relay bank/charger setup. Then installed two of the 4 bank
chargers. I got the car and complete it with the third 4 bank charger
and a
new battery pack. It is now "set it and forget it"
Ted,
Olympia, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
I have taken a slightly different approach using a charger per battery.
I have implemented a charger per battery in addition to the bulk
charger
on my E FIERO.
The bulk charger monitors each battery and shuts itself down when the
pack is 90% recharged. The small switchers are on as long as the
vehicle
is plugged in. The individual chargers are set to 13.8V and balance
the
pack. Each charger is fused with a 250V rated fuse and has a LED
indicator that shows when the battery is above 13.4V. This will
indicate
if any charger has failed.
The only potential problem is if a battery fails by going open under
bulk charge then the charger connected to it will go poof, snap,
crackle, & pop as it sees full pack voltage on its 12V output. So far
the system has worked without a problem.
I have left the individual chargers plugged in for over 24 hours.
After 3-4 hours the total current being supplied to all 19 chargers is
less than 1/2 amp. & all the batteries are within 5mv of each other.
KICKGAS
Pat Sweeney
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:05 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
On 5/11/06, Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The only thing that has concerned me about my setup is if for some
reason I
get an open in my pack. I could get an voltage potential up 150volts+
trying
to go though one of the chargers. I have been meaning to contact the
maker
of the charger to find out what is the highest voltage the charger
could see
on any one charger. With a high enough volt one could let the magic
smoke
out that makes it work.
If you get an open circuit cell while driving, you will have a reverse
polarity potential across that charger. The charger should be
protected against reverse polarity: sometimes just a diode across the
output and a fuse in series. If it doesn't have this protection (or
it's not sufficient to protect against the higher voltage and greater
fault energy), you could add it externally.
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Hi
Just wondering if someone can help me with this.
I was asked by a friend to compare just how efficient
a EV is compared to a ice vehicle. The real question
was just how many mpg would a ice have to get to be
as efficient as an EV. He was concerned more with
a medium length commute on the highway.
Feel free to jump in and correct me here so I get
this right ;-] I've thought about this a few ways
but am not sure which is the best way. I'll just mumble
out loud here and you can see if I am going the right way.
Lets say it is a 50 mile distance one way. Lets say the
speed limit is 50mph. Would you get the cost per mile of
the EV based on just the cost of the recharge? So if it
took say 50kw at 5 cents per then the cost was $2.50 or
5 cents per mile. Ok now lets say gas is $3 per gallon.
To get a cost per mile of 5 cents then 300/5=60 the ice
needs to get 60mpg.
I have no idea if the numbers I used are even close so if
you know yours please share em.
Dave
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TdS Report #15: Team Profile: Woodstock and Moritz
Environmentalists often bemoan the distortions that "the marketplace" inject
into the value of natural resources. But sometimes the marketplace can be made
to work for you in your desire to be "green". Such is the message that Ken
Wells and the team from Saint Mark's School have attached to their two entries
in the Tour de Sol.
Woodstock is a Ford Ranger 4x4 converted to electric drive by the St Mark's
EV club. It has a 300 Watt solar panel over the truck bed to charge the
batteries with "free" solar energy, but it would take a very, very long time to
fill the batteries that way. So they plug it in. But when they do they also
charge from solar panels and wind power, but without owning other solar panels
or a wind generator. Instead they buy their green power from a green supplier
through the grid.
"The pollution of generating electricity comes from the source of the power you
buy," Ken explains, "and we buy green power. We are using this truck to tell
the public how they can buy green power too." St. Marks buys its recharging
power from Conservation Services Group. "They have a product called
ClimateSAVE that is 95% Kansas wind and 5% Evergreen solar. Evergreen places
50 kiloWatt solar panel arrays on top of BJ's stores; there is one 6 miles from
here."
Moritz is a TDI Volkswagen Jetta running B100 biodiesel. "We display these two
vehicles side-by-side to illustrate our theme: The Hybrid Driveway. If you can
only have one car, a hybrid is a good idea. But if you separate the electric
from the fuel drive you can capitalize on each's distinct advantages. Last
year Woodstock got 92 miles per gallon equivalent, with no greenhouse gas
emission. The biodiesel car gets over 700 miles per tank of fuel. It's
lifetime average as a biodiesel is about 45 miles per gallon, with the
performance you expect from a turbo. On biofuels, Moritz is about as clean as
a Toyota Prius."
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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