EV Digest 5530
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers (Update)
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers (Update)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Power of DC RE: DC EVrace
by "James Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 1988 Chevy Sprint EV for Sale
by "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Starting again...AGM question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: battery suggestions
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hubmotor anatomy
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) clutch or clutchless
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers (Update)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: SAFT NiCds
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers (Update)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: SAFT NiCds
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers (Update)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
With some trepidation I say this, might you be able to grind away the
motor case and shaft enough for clearance?
Random thought number 2: Maybe you could hook up the motor output
shaft to the tranny input shaft with a CV or U joint, and tip the
motor away for enough clearance.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don:
> Once again you have completely missed the point. The original poster was
> complaining about suppliers not meeting his needs. Why? Because there
> are
> only a few suppliers to the EV HOBBY industry. These are mom-and-pop
> shops.
>
>
First it's HER needs ;) But you couldn't have know that one.
Second: I wasn't complaining. I was pointing at what I believe are 'new'
business ideas. I was indicating my willingness to pay $$$ for new
products. I don't see EVing as a hobby. I drive an EV not because it is
cool, but because it makes sense for me and our business.
I am among those who don't want (or don't have the time) to browse the
web, searching overstock/surplus/junkyards for stuff that may or may not
somehow 'go' into the ev. I buy parts that make sense for me. And we add
them to the vehicles. That's all.
So if EVing is a hobby for you - that's fine. I use my trucks every day
for business and pleasure. And I am missing a few items that would make
sense for me and maybe for a few others.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I myself love the space alien green Insight! The color fits
the car perfectly. It has also inspired me to paint my
Triumph GT6 green, but a much darker green.
Has Gary Graunke finished his Insight conversion yet? I
haven't heard anything about that car for a while.
Apparantly, he was going to put a pack of Thundersky Li Ions
and a Siemens AC drive system in it, and achieve 230 miles
highway range and 130 mph top speed from that combination.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With some trepidation I say this, might you be able to grind away the
motor case and shaft enough for clearance?
That was actually my very first thought when mulling over this problem
in the garage today. (My grinder gets a lot of use!)
But it looked like too much material on both sides would need to be
removed for this to work. (My itchy grinder-trigger-finger was
disappointed.)
Random thought number 2: Maybe you could hook up the motor output
shaft to the tranny input shaft with a CV or U joint, and tip the
motor away for enough clearance.
That's interesting! And I just happen to have several half shafts with
CV joints left over from the "spare" car. I will just have to see if
the extra length of a coupling like this would permit the combination to
still fit in the engine bay.
Thanks David.
- Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the savior of the electric vehicle or the american auto industry
in america will be the move towards open standards like the ones that
helped create the explosion in the pc arena.
We, the EV'ers have the power to build such an industry from the ground
up. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob and all.
I'll be in the area Saturday. Not sure what mama want's to do. It's her
vacation too.
Was thinking about going to the tractor/truck pulls at the Dragway on
Saturday nite. How about swapping out those drag radials for some tractor
lugs Bob? Guess RWD would be best.
Darin
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
> HI all,
>
> Anyone be in Saturday night and be up for Dinner ?
>
> Hope to stay at the Microtel Hotel on RT40.
>
> Bob Salem
>
> PS Dave Erb and will be with me.
>
> > We're getting fired up for the 6th Annual NEDRA Power of DC drag race
> > June 4 at Mason Dixon Dragway in Hagerstown, Maryland. Racing starts
> > at 12:00 noon and ends about 5:00
> >
> > Racers so far include:
> >
> > 1) Bob Salem and Dave Erb with Bob's electric Rabbit Truck
> > 2) Matt Graham's 240SX
> > 3) Shawn Waggoner's Orange Crush and another bike
> > 4) Darin Gilbert's Pirahna Motorcycle
> > 5) Shawn Lawless will be bringing the Electropolitan and maybe
> > another racing vehicle.
> > 6) West Virginia University with their Formula One electric racer
> > 7) My electric Ford Escort
> > 8) Charlie Garlow's electric S-10 truck
> > 9) Chris Zak's electric Prizm
> > 10) Joeseph Lado's Destiny 2000 electric Fiero
> > 11) Bryan Murtha's electric Rav-4
> > 12) Great Mills High School electric MR-2
> > 13) Great Mill High School electric dragster
> > 14) Central Shenendoah Valley Regional Governor's School electric 240-Z
> > 15) Central Shenendoah Valley Regional Governor's School electric
> > Porsche
> > 16) Valerie Myer's Corbin Sparrow
> > 17) Aggravated Battery dragster is probable, but we are not sure.
> > 18) Bob Rice's Rabbit EV will be there in spirit. But Bob will
> > definitly be there.
> >
> > 2006 Power of DC Sponsors:
> >
> > Baltimore Clean Cities Campaign
> > Battery Warehouse
> > Cafe Electric
> > Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
> > KTA Services
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> > Manzanita Micro
> > Maryland Energy Administration
> > Megawatt Motorworks
> > QuickCable
> > Suncoast Electric Vehicle Outfitters
> > Virginia Solar Council
> >
> > For the race Jim Husted of Hi-Torque Electric built a beautiful motor
> > that will be raffled off among the registered racers.
> >
> > We will have the EVA/DC Solar Slot Car Track set up for the kids.
> >
> > Besides the out of town racers among those coming out to visit will
> > be Bob Rice, Mark Hanson, Peter Echoff (sp?) and Dave Stensland. If I
> > left anyone out just let me know.
> >
> > Everyone is welcome to come out and race or check things out.
> >
> > We'll do another last minute announcement shortly before the race.
> >
> > See Ya June 4th!
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA Power of DC
> > http://www.powerofdc.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought of this also, but you would need 2 u-joints, so that the motor and
input shaft would be parallel, otherwise you would get an eccentric effect,
the input shaft speeding up and slowing down during each rotation.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how
was the play?"
Dave <(^¿^)>
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
Random thought number 2: Maybe you could hook up the motor output
shaft to the tranny input shaft with a CV or U joint, and tip the
motor away for enough clearance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Man!!
I really want to be at Hagerstown next weekend.
Unfortunately, I'm at one of those moments in life where everything just seems
to be going the wrong way....
Here's my chance to change directions. I *MAY* be able to make Hagerstown,
(with a running JR even) but I need some motivation.
I have quite a few military surplus, unused, never been opened, Hawker
G12V26AH10EPX batteries. I'd like $30.00 each for them, if I can sell at least
20, I'll bring them to Hagerstown. When I arrive there these boxes will be
opened, because I will not bring a battery that is obviously dead and I need to
open the box to verify it's open cell voltage. But I can assure you they are
right now, factory sealed. They are ~5 yrs old. Matter of fact......
...
...
I just opened one, it was built on the 320th day of 2001 and open cell voltage
reads 12.28 I'll charge this one up and cycle it a few times and try to get a
read as to if it still has it's 26ah capacity.
.... I do know that it will melt a 12ga wire ;-)
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: 5/26/2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
Bob and all.
I'll be in the area Saturday. Not sure what mama want's to do. It's
her
vacation too.
Was thinking about going to the tractor/truck pulls at the Dragway on
Saturday nite. How about swapping out those drag radials for some
tractor
lugs Bob? Guess RWD would be best.
Darin
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
> HI all,
>
> Anyone be in Saturday night and be up for Dinner ?
>
> Hope to stay at the Microtel Hotel on RT40.
>
> Bob Salem
>
> PS Dave Erb and will be with me.
>
> > We're getting fired up for the 6th Annual NEDRA Power of DC drag
race
> > June 4 at Mason Dixon Dragway in Hagerstown, Maryland. Racing starts
> > at 12:00 noon and ends about 5:00
> >
> > Racers so far include:
> >
> > 1) Bob Salem and Dave Erb with Bob's electric Rabbit Truck
> > 2) Matt Graham's 240SX
> > 3) Shawn Waggoner's Orange Crush and another bike
> > 4) Darin Gilbert's Pirahna Motorcycle
> > 5) Shawn Lawless will be bringing the Electropolitan and maybe
> > another racing vehicle.
> > 6) West Virginia University with their Formula One electric racer
> > 7) My electric Ford Escort
> > 8) Charlie Garlow's electric S-10 truck
> > 9) Chris Zak's electric Prizm
> > 10) Joeseph Lado's Destiny 2000 electric Fiero
> > 11) Bryan Murtha's electric Rav-4
> > 12) Great Mills High School electric MR-2
> > 13) Great Mill High School electric dragster
> > 14) Central Shenendoah Valley Regional Governor's School electric
240-Z
> > 15) Central Shenendoah Valley Regional Governor's School electric
> > Porsche
> > 16) Valerie Myer's Corbin Sparrow
> > 17) Aggravated Battery dragster is probable, but we are not sure.
> > 18) Bob Rice's Rabbit EV will be there in spirit. But Bob will
> > definitly be there.
> >
> > 2006 Power of DC Sponsors:
> >
> > Baltimore Clean Cities Campaign
> > Battery Warehouse
> > Cafe Electric
> > Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
> > KTA Services
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> > Manzanita Micro
> > Maryland Energy Administration
> > Megawatt Motorworks
> > QuickCable
> > Suncoast Electric Vehicle Outfitters
> > Virginia Solar Council
> >
> > For the race Jim Husted of Hi-Torque Electric built a beautiful
motor
> > that will be raffled off among the registered racers.
> >
> > We will have the EVA/DC Solar Slot Car Track set up for the kids.
> >
> > Besides the out of town racers among those coming out to visit will
> > be Bob Rice, Mark Hanson, Peter Echoff (sp?) and Dave Stensland. If
I
> > left anyone out just let me know.
> >
> > Everyone is welcome to come out and race or check things out.
> >
> > We'll do another last minute announcement shortly before the race.
> >
> > See Ya June 4th!
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA Power of DC
> > http://www.powerofdc.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date:
5/24/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
So far the progress consists of having obtained a used 36/48V forklift
Is this (like my Cat forklift) a 36V control system by tapping the
batteries, with 48V applied to the motor? If so you may be able to up
the motor volts, keep the 36V on the control circuit...
I should have clarified: its components are rated for either 36 or 48V,
but it doesn't operate on both voltages.
Could, but if you lock off one axle, the diff pinion gears will be going
"flat out" instead of just moving with the turns - I think the diff life
would be very short, but I know that at lower power this method has been
used for windmill waterpumps and all sorts of DIY agricultural
contraptions. It may be worth doing in order to get on the road - if you
have something strong enough to lock off the non-drive side to.
Someone else suggested "locking" the diff pinion gears. He said it's a
not uncommon modification in rally racing (I suppose either by welding
the pinions, or by using a solid "spool" type replacement), which gives
drivers the ability to keep going if they break one axle. In my case, I
could just omit the other axle.
I have to admit I really didn't know how an open-type (or any type)
differential worked until I ran into this problem today. For anyone
else wondering, there's a decent Flash animation of one in operation on
the How Stuff Works site: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential3.htm
You have several options with the smaller motor - a new shaft, a new end
plate to take a bigger bearing and have a shaft extension put on the
outside of the shaft, a splined shaft stub ...
More options than I was unaware of - thanks for that info.
Is there another transaxle from a similar model that has greater offset?
This car was actually available with 4 different engines, yet they all
mated to the same transaxle housing! (Although with different guts -
ratios and final drives).
Thanks a lot for your ideas, James.
- Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure where I'll be staying but I'll be driving from Toronto, Ontario
with EVJer down to Maryland Friday and back Monday if anyone along 79 or 81
wants to catch a ride there or back let me know? Would be nice to have
company on the ride back.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:06 PM 26/05/06 -0400, Darin wrote:
<snip>
Is there another transaxle from a similar model that has greater offset?
This car was actually available with 4 different engines, yet they all
mated to the same transaxle housing! (Although with different guts -
ratios and final drives).
Look for another vehicle from the same manufacturer that is the next size
bigger - this is what my Charade engine/gearbox into Mira is doing. The
Charade comes in all sorts of variants, up to ricer-racer types, so I
should be able to get a nice strong gearbox if/when I'm ready to do a Mira
EV. But I have never been "into" Suzuki vehicles, so I don't know if the
Metro even HAS a "big brother", and if it does wether the driveshaft
splines will fit.
Another thought is a different brand of transaxle - Toyota/Nissan/etc that
has greater offset and adapting the driveshafts. Depends on what you can
find, what is available locally to you and what skill resources are
available to you too.
Thanks a lot for your ideas, James.
You are welcome.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
This is something I've been thinking about for a while, I finally decided I
am going to do it. I'm going to sell the AC Drive Chevy Sprint that I bought
from Otmar back in October of 2004. I think it's better that someone else
who'll use it more than I do should have it. I also don't have the time to
finish it up the way it should be done.
This has a Brusa AMC 300 Drive with a GT-20 12KW motor. It'll surprise you
how well it goes for having such a small drive.
I have a longer description and lots of photos at:
http://www.kg7bz.net/Sprint.html
I'll let it go for the $4000 that I paid and I have added a PFC-20, 12
Rudman MKII regulators and an E-Meter.
I've also posted a listing on the EV Tradin' Post.
August Johnson
Lakeside, AZ
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
Good that you are selling WATTABMR, as I found out that
my time is really very limited (and the BMW that I bought
to convert is still in daily use).
My battery of choice has been the UB121100, which is
supposed to be a group 30 battery.
It weighs 70 lbs (my measurement)
and is 12V 110Ah (at 20h discharge) while the
specs say 80Ah in 1h discharge and I got close to that
value when testing it.
Cold cranking amps are 720 so it can sustain a decent
discharge, although I never draw more than 200A from it
in my 312V AC system.
My main reason to buy it though is that it was extremely
cheap for an AGM battery, as it is in use in high volume
in industry. So I got a deal for $85 per battery after
combining my order and two other EV'ers.
Let me know if you have more questions,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of michael bearden
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc:
Subject: Starting again...AGM question
Sent: 5/25/2006 9:59 PM
Importance: Normal
Arrghhh! The trials of the EV'er...I finally put WATTABMR on the
Tradin'Post last week, 30 months after the accident that ended its EV
life...I had been collecting Bradleys and Bradley parts with the
intention of using all the EV stuff from the BMW to make what I called
"an electric Porsche eater". But then I had the good fortune to call
Brian Hall just when he started thinking about selling the electric
Porsche, so I sold off all of the Bradley stuff, and Cor was going to
take WATTABMR to make another 300 series electric BMW. I had the
pleasure of driving a real conversation starter (which lived up to its
license plate-QUICKEV!) for over a year, until the unfortunate Porsche
Flambe that kicked off Mother's Day in our country neighborhood. (One of
my good ole boy neighbors rolled in with his big diesel pick-up in the
afternoon, looked at the mess, and said, "Michael, I'm hurt that you
would have a Barbecue and not invite me...") Now, I still have the
Gogomobil, but it is more like a really cute EV neighborhood car than
what I like driving (and EV-angelizing with=it looks like clowns should
jump out when it stops), so I am going South of SF tomorrow to look at a
lien sale BMW, and am looking at building another heavier (but still
quick) EV.
All of that is to lead up to the question: What has happened with Group
31 AGMs while I have been away from the list working my way through my
stock of 33 Optima YTs? When I first designed WATTTABMR, I planned on
using the Optima Grp 31 that was supposed to be out that year...then the
Defense Dept. bought the whole output of the production, and I ended up
getting a bunch of the Delphi 8v AGMs that were removed from the first
generation of EV Rangers by Ford.
24 of those made a 192v pack that weighed right at a thousand pounds,
and gave good Zip and range with excellent balance front to back. I got
nearly 20 months of service out of Delphis (by constantly changing out
the weakest batteries) with the EV as my go to work car. As the Delphis
began to fail, there were no more to be found (Right, Lawrence?) so I
bought a project down in Santa Cruz to get the 33 new Optimas that he had.
32 of them as a buddy-pair pack with the 600 amp T-Rex turned my
formerly peppy EV into a lead sled...great range, but not too quick. I
changed to the 1K T-Rex, which helped, but what I needed was a 60 pound
AGM, not an 86 pound (2 YT's). T-boning the pick-up that turned left in
front of me ended that round of EV grinning...and now the Porsche is
gone. The EV is dead, Long Live the EV!! Which means here I am again,
configuring another EV, which is the question that lead to this long
story. Is anything out there now in the 60 pound/Group 31 size that
people are using for street EVs? It is the only thing that I can see
making a configuration like this one work well enough to be fun to
drive, and have decent range.
Thanks, EV Amigos-I would never have been able to start building and
driving EVs without your experience, knowledge, and willingness to share
what works.
Michael B.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And I'm also confused. Where did Taper Locks come in? The subject is battery
suggestions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: battery suggestions
> I'm confused -- what does this have to do with taper locks?
>
> Michael Perry wrote:
> > I just pulled the McNair batts from my new Chinese (McCullough)
lawnmower.
> > Interesting that they were DOA, w/ apparently no warranty.
> >
> > I could use some advice as to what to put back in. These are
RB-FM-12V-18Ah.
> > For now, I've mounted a pair of my (very old) Hawkers in place, but it'd
be
> > nice to go back up to 18Ah, from the current 12. (Interesting batts,
those
> > Hawkers. Over 6 years old and never missed a lick.)
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What brand is the motor and where was it made?
My thought... if the glue pushed the magnets closer to the rotor, or weren't
exactly aligned, you'll get this stepping effect. Perhaps even one (or more)
of the magnets are thicker?
All of my Chinese hub motors have a stepping effect when turned at slow
speed. At lower RPM, they have a significant "hum", "purr" or vibration. It
tends to mellow out as RPMs increase.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:48 AM
Subject: Hubmotor anatomy
> All:
>
> I am trying to understand the behavior of my brushed PM hubmotor. I have
TWO
> "sister" hub motors, of 700W nominal capacity.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you "Slenderize" the half-shaft/axel? Take it to a driveshaft specialist
and have a new one made from a lower diameter oiece of tubing. Of course,
thias only works if it is the tubing that is contacting the case, and not
the CV joints.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how
was the play?"
Dave <(^¿^)>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
Hi all -
Today we ran into our first big stumbling block on the Joe Sixpack
low-budget NEV/LSV Geo Metro-based project.
So far the progress consists of having obtained a used 36/48V forklift and
stripped its drive & pump motors, controller, contactors, potbox, cables,
etc. Next we bought two near-death Suzukiclone 2-dr hatchbacks (one
Metro, one Swift), and consolidated the good parts into the least rusty
car. I learned how to torch braze and fixed a few holes in the floor, and
my mechanic gave the work thumbs up and the car breezed through inspection
in ICE form last week.
The drivetrain has since been removed, transaxle separated from the ICE
... and we just discovered the 12 inch diameter forklift drive motor that
we were hoping to use is about half an inch too big: there won't be enough
clearance for the halfshaft axle that goes from the transaxle, alongside
the "back" of the motor, to the wheel.
Brainstorming, several options came to mind:
- Could we offset the drive motor from the transaxle input shaft and
connect the two with gears, a short chain, or cogged belt?
- Could we omit an axle and modify the differential for one-wheel drive?
(Likely revealing my ignorance of how diff's work here.)
- We *could* use one of the forklift's smaller (8 inch) hydraulic pump
motors, but they have internally splined shafts, which will require
replacement/modification to be useful.
We would prefer to use the main drive motor if possible, since it's
matched to the controller, having a field weakening circuit. Also it was
serviced a few years ago.
Any suggestions, comments and tall tales would be welcome!
- Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darin,
Do you plan on shifting while moving? If you make it a one gear wonder a
offset motor is a possibility.
If you remove the requirement of shifting while rolling you can drop the
clutch and flywheel. This leaves you with two dual bearing drive shafts (one
on the motor and one on the transmission) that you can mount a set of
gears/sprockets/pulleys on to allow you offset. BUT... there still is a big
issue with mounting. Since your shafts are no longer lined up you may have
major issues securing the motor to the transmission (the mount has to
withstand the full torque of the motor) also you need enough clearance in
the bell housing to mount 2 gears/sprockets/pulleys and be able to service
it. For that fact alone I think it limits your choices to chain or gears.
The tricky part is choosing the correct type of gear / chain that can
withstand the force the motor will put on it.
Now with that said I think this would void your low budget requirement. It
would require some machining and depending on the shop rates in your area it
can become expensive fast.
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:19:25 -0700
Can you "Slenderize" the half-shaft/axel? Take it to a driveshaft
specialist and have a new one made from a lower diameter oiece of tubing.
Of course, thias only works if it is the tubing that is contacting the
case, and not the CV joints.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how
was the play?"
Dave <(^¿^)>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Darin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
Hi all -
Today we ran into our first big stumbling block on the Joe Sixpack
low-budget NEV/LSV Geo Metro-based project.
So far the progress consists of having obtained a used 36/48V forklift and
stripped its drive & pump motors, controller, contactors, potbox, cables,
etc. Next we bought two near-death Suzukiclone 2-dr hatchbacks (one
Metro, one Swift), and consolidated the good parts into the least rusty
car. I learned how to torch braze and fixed a few holes in the floor, and
my mechanic gave the work thumbs up and the car breezed through inspection
in ICE form last week.
The drivetrain has since been removed, transaxle separated from the ICE
... and we just discovered the 12 inch diameter forklift drive motor that
we were hoping to use is about half an inch too big: there won't be enough
clearance for the halfshaft axle that goes from the transaxle, alongside
the "back" of the motor, to the wheel.
Brainstorming, several options came to mind:
- Could we offset the drive motor from the transaxle input shaft and
connect the two with gears, a short chain, or cogged belt?
- Could we omit an axle and modify the differential for one-wheel drive?
(Likely revealing my ignorance of how diff's work here.)
- We *could* use one of the forklift's smaller (8 inch) hydraulic pump
motors, but they have internally splined shafts, which will require
replacement/modification to be useful.
We would prefer to use the main drive motor if possible, since it's
matched to the controller, having a field weakening circuit. Also it was
serviced a few years ago.
Any suggestions, comments and tall tales would be welcome!
- Darin
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The joe sixpack car thread reminded me about a Doug Smiths fiero at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/143. He is using a clutchless design in his
car. Unfortunaly it does not go on to state if he actualy shifts when
rolling or if its a one gear wonder once it gets going.
Has anyone else tried a no clutch desing with rolling shifts??
In theory this has a chance of working. Step off the gas then shift... But,
The extra spinning mass of the electric motor might do "bad things(tm)" to
the syncros.
thoughts?
Later,
Wire
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--- Begin Message ---
On 25 May 2006 at 23:52, Michaela Merz wrote:
> A replacement a/c system that runs either of the second shaft of my motor or
> directly from batteries.
>
> Offers received: 0
Did you contact the company I suggested, Glacier Bay? It appears to me that
they make a system that runs on DC. Won't they sell you one? Is it more
money than you're willing to pay?
http://www.glacierbay.com/
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Philippe - I made an adaptor on the lathe and have topped up my cells
now. I did a full charge first. I guess my problem is resetting the zero
point on the Energy meter. Its a shame PSA did not make some of the
servicing resets and charge initiation sequences available by a "coded"
pressing of certain switches instead of ELIT.
Thankyou for your advice.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: SAFT NiCds
yes they are... but the servicing counter parameter was not set correctly
!
Some mechanics used the same funnel for oil servicing too, or filling the
water without prior servicing charge or too much time after having
unpluged
and other things like this...
This mistakes killed tons of batteries :^(
Mcanics don't have EV skills and reflex, they knows how to dismount/mount
an
ICE eyes closed but can't imagine even a perfectly cleaned from oil funnel
must not be used to make watering on an flooded batterie
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: SAFT NiCds
Hi Philippe,
>battery death was from not enough watering which is a customer or
mecanics
>mistake.
How could this happen?
Isn't there some kind of counter in the vehicle
which says "water me now!" ?
Then the mechanic just has to pour the distilled
water in one end and wait for it to pour out of
the other end of the chain, right?
I've done this a couple of times on our car so far
and I figure even a gas car mechanic could do it!
;)
Check out http://www.npcsolar.com/ev.html
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.npcimaging.com Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
Solectria EV owner. "Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
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--- Begin Message ---
On 5/26/06, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did you actually enquire with any suppliers directly?
>
> The problem is that your requirements are highly specific to your
> particular vehicle, of which there is only one example. For example
> you asked for tail-shaft regen. This is possible to do with a
> modified alternator. But as a kit? Forget it! How would any kit be
> able to cater to no-two-the-same conversion EVs? Different motors,
> different pack voltages, different space limitations, different wiring
> layouts, different control preferences..
I was asking for a kit. A generator/alternator, a pulley for the advanced
dc shaft and the necessary electronics. Some parts are specific (like the
voltage), others are not.
To be fair, Roland suggested a solution of sorts using off-the-shelf
parts. You said you didn't want to do that as you are not a mechanic.
How is this different from an alternator "kit" which would inevitably
also require you to make up brackets, do wiring, etc.?
> For air-conditioning it should be easier, but you are asking in the
> wrong place. Did you try going to a local plant air-conditioning
> place and tell them what you wanted? I'm pretty sure someone pointed
> out a bolt-in 12V solution already.
>
> For an APU tailored to your specific pack voltage, power and space
> requirements - I doubt there's anything available off the shelf - but
> why should there be for a market of one person? So your choices are
> to build one out of a gen-set (and possibly a powerful charger), or
> offer to pay someone else to do it for you.
>
> Same thing for a gas-gauge driver. A trivial thing to arrange using a
> PIC, but you'll need to either get it custom made or do it yourself!
So - we just need only one EV supplier then. Heck, we don't need even
that. Why not built all the controllers ourselves or rip it out of a fork
lift.
I don't know where you get that idea. All I'm saying is that for
niche applications you can't expect to find perfect solutions that are
ready made on the shelf (especially if you're not willing to trawl
through surplus suppliers and find stuff that might be adapted).
However, as I said, I'm fairly sure that if you actually contacted a
few companies and showed that you are serious about commissioning them
to do the work for you, they would.
> It's just not the same situation as the budding PC industry (or C64
> industry or whatever). There you had common hardware and a potential
> userbase in the thousands at least. A more realistic comparison would
> be if everyone had built their own computers by hand, all with
> slightly different hardware architectures and memory layouts, even if
> using common components and doing the same job.
That was execatly how the computer industry started as 'real' computers
were expensive.
Yes, and were you able to buy a RAM expansion card or even a power
supply that would just plug straight in to *any* of the kit built or
one-off computers, and expect it to work? No - You had to adapt
things, or make them up from components. Or pay someone else to.
Exactly the same situation here.
Regards
Evan
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--- Begin Message ---
What year Metro is it? Could you pad out the rear tranny mount at the
firewall, and redrill the holes on the tranny bracket that attaches to the
front tranny mount? This would move the tranny forward and change the angle
of the half-shaft and maybe give you the clearance that you need.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter Shabino
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 12:16 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
Darin,
Do you plan on shifting while moving? If you make it a one gear wonder a
offset motor is a possibility.
If you remove the requirement of shifting while rolling you can drop the
clutch and flywheel. This leaves you with two dual bearing drive shafts (one
on the motor and one on the transmission) that you can mount a set of
gears/sprockets/pulleys on to allow you offset. BUT... there still is a big
issue with mounting. Since your shafts are no longer lined up you may have
major issues securing the motor to the transmission (the mount has to
withstand the full torque of the motor) also you need enough clearance in
the bell housing to mount 2 gears/sprockets/pulleys and be able to service
it. For that fact alone I think it limits your choices to chain or gears.
The tricky part is choosing the correct type of gear / chain that can
withstand the force the motor will put on it.
Now with that said I think this would void your low budget requirement. It
would require some machining and depending on the shop rates in your area it
can become expensive fast.
>From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
>Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:19:25 -0700
>
>Can you "Slenderize" the half-shaft/axel? Take it to a driveshaft
>specialist and have a new one made from a lower diameter oiece of tubing.
>Of course, thias only works if it is the tubing that is contacting the
>case, and not the CV joints.
>
>"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how
>was the play?"
>
>Dave <(^¿^)>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Darin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:30 AM
>Subject: Joe Sixpack Metro NEV - first stumbling block
>
>
>>Hi all -
>>
>>Today we ran into our first big stumbling block on the Joe Sixpack
>>low-budget NEV/LSV Geo Metro-based project.
>>
>>So far the progress consists of having obtained a used 36/48V forklift and
>>stripped its drive & pump motors, controller, contactors, potbox, cables,
>>etc. Next we bought two near-death Suzukiclone 2-dr hatchbacks (one
>>Metro, one Swift), and consolidated the good parts into the least rusty
>>car. I learned how to torch braze and fixed a few holes in the floor, and
>>my mechanic gave the work thumbs up and the car breezed through inspection
>>in ICE form last week.
>>
>>The drivetrain has since been removed, transaxle separated from the ICE
>>... and we just discovered the 12 inch diameter forklift drive motor that
>>we were hoping to use is about half an inch too big: there won't be enough
>>clearance for the halfshaft axle that goes from the transaxle, alongside
>>the "back" of the motor, to the wheel.
>>
>>Brainstorming, several options came to mind:
>>
>>- Could we offset the drive motor from the transaxle input shaft and
>>connect the two with gears, a short chain, or cogged belt?
>>
>>- Could we omit an axle and modify the differential for one-wheel drive?
>>(Likely revealing my ignorance of how diff's work here.)
>>
>>- We *could* use one of the forklift's smaller (8 inch) hydraulic pump
>>motors, but they have internally splined shafts, which will require
>>replacement/modification to be useful.
>>
>>We would prefer to use the main drive motor if possible, since it's
>>matched to the controller, having a field weakening circuit. Also it was
>>serviced a few years ago.
>>
>>Any suggestions, comments and tall tales would be welcome!
>>
>>- Darin
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/27/06, John Luck Home <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Philippe - I made an adaptor on the lathe and have topped up my cells
now. I did a full charge first.
You should have done a maintenance charge first. Your cells are now
likely to overflow and lose electrolyte.
I guess my problem is resetting the zero
point on the Energy meter.
No, you need to zero the accumulated AH counter.
Its a shame PSA did not make some of the
servicing resets and charge initiation sequences available by a "coded"
pressing of certain switches instead of ELIT.
Evlite will be available from next week.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
Did you contact the company I suggested, Glacier Bay? It appears to me that
they make a system that runs on DC. Won't they sell you one? Is it more
money than you're willing to pay?
http://www.glacierbay.com/
$2495.00 for a 12 Volt 5000 BTU air conditioner? OUCH! This doesn't
look like a good solution for most EVs, too bulky, to expensive, and
not powerful enough.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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