EV Digest 6671
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: NdFeB magnets in motors?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Excellent GM Volt video
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Need for Speed (was RE: Silly Tweety!)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: "largish" brushless motors available
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions & FE
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EV APU (genset) emissions & FE
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: "largish" brushless motors available
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) IEEE Spectrum Features Tesla as #1 Top 10 Tech Car
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: ReVolt, Chelsea and Chris and the Power of DC
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Price point needed
by "Richard Krog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by Breesy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Need for Speed (was RE: Silly Tweety!) .. ev is better than i.c.e.
vehicles !
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) how businesses work
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Jacob has Tagged you! :)
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EV reliability and WKTEC showing in Sarasota,Fla tonight,, EVers meet?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Price point needed
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Need for Speed (was RE: Silly Tweety!)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: how businesses work
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Price point needed
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Motor to Axle Options
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Motor to Axle Options
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) 1980 Commuta Car brakes
by Tad Coles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Did you happen to notice the power rating on that generator?
Even using of them, it would have to be about 10 times as powerful in
order to provide mediocre performance.
Using those tecniques it would have to be several times as large and it's
already as big as a wheel.
So theoretically, yes you could build hub motors like that. Practically?
Probably not.
> Hi
> I was interested to read about NdFeB magnets being used to create a
> high power windmill.
> http://www.otherpower.com/wisc06.html
>
> The construction of the hub generator especially!
>
> I'm sure a hub motor (or 4 of them)could be built using this method
> to give us a motor of appropriate size for each wheel in a
> conversion. Is anyone doing this and do any of the motor experts here
> have comment's on the technology?
>
> Please! I am not asking about the weight issue with regard to the
> problem of increased unsprung weight as that has been discussed to
> death already! Only the motor technology.
>
> Thanks
> Tom
>
>
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
> Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at
> http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Still doesnt explain why the Volt "prototype" is
> still basically a cardboard box with no drivetrain.
It is a CAR SHOW CAR! In auto jargon a 'buck.'
Car show concepts are built to look pretty, to dip a toe in the public
pool.
Where GM goes forward is certainly up for discussion, considering where
they have been in the past, but c'mon, faulting them for having a
minimally-motive buck is about like wondering why the stars don't
twinkle on a theatrical backdrop.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Fast EVs get noticed...It's one of our best selling concepts.
Sure is... we stand a better chance wooing the masses by matching or
beating ICE performance than we do by dumbing down ICEs...
Kudos to all that are pushing the limits in the direction of more
wide-spread acceptance!
Efficiency is important, but balancing performance against pure
efficiency is the way to woo the world...
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was always wondering how 20hp AC CNC spindle motors would adapt to EV's
I couldn't find any reasonable on ebay right now, but I have seen them
go for about 500 on ebay. When they say 20hp they are talking continuous.
of this type
130098794499
220085504442
140005665199
A lot are water cooled, Excellent balance and bearings, great torque and
wide rpm range. And there are also a lot of inverters :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you're not trying to do an overnight conversion and you want to save
money, go check eBay. These types of boxes are almost always listed.
You can get almost anything for an EV on eBay for a lot less money if you do
a little research, know what you want, know what is a good price to pay, and
have a little time to wait for one to show up, if it isn't listed right now.
Just my 2 pennies.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Dutko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 11:46 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
I'm looking for a ABS or Polyester 10X11X4 approx high box for my
contactors and relays. Something with a screw top not mote than 5"H.
Does anyone know of a good source? I've looked at Hoffman, Budd,
Hammond. Any others? Other suggestions? I don't want to use metal of
aluminum.
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you believe that GM is going to put out an EV without delaying
tactics, you have another thing coming. They know their income model
is seriously threatened by BEVs, and -even more- by PHEVs. PHEVs would
actually be immediately accepted by people, and they would suddenly
realize they dont -need- to use the gas engine much and start
demanding a BEV. The Volt is nothing more than an effort to get rid of
the bad publicity that was generated by WKTEC, end of statement. If it
was a real effort, they would be retooling their EV1 project since it
is already designed and they would save millions by eating some cake
and using it. Essentially ignoring the EV1 and continuing on the old
'technology is not there yet', continuing to demand that there was no
consumer interest, etc is ridiculous, and a clear indicator of their
falseness in this regard.
When you see that the Rav4 EVs have been going for 100s of thousands
of miles with almost no maintenance, except for suspension, tires,
etc, you realize why they REALLY do not want to put these things on
the streets.
As far as I am concerned. GM deserves nothing from me but contempt,
and when they get their arses handed to them by independents and go
under, I'll raise a toast to days gone by and good riddens.
On 4/16/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Still doesnt explain why the Volt "prototype" is
> still basically a cardboard box with no drivetrain.
It is a CAR SHOW CAR! In auto jargon a 'buck.'
Car show concepts are built to look pretty, to dip a toe in the public
pool.
Where GM goes forward is certainly up for discussion, considering where
they have been in the past, but c'mon, faulting them for having a
minimally-motive buck is about like wondering why the stars don't
twinkle on a theatrical backdrop.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Burning 'new' Biomass is actually net carbon negative, assuming the
leftover bits are turned into feed or fertilizer. At worst it is net
carbon neutral, since all the carbon was trapped recently. The issue
you have to worry about with biomass is how powerful of a GHG the
exhaust is, and if it is neutralized easily by elements in our
ecosystem. Methane is a great example of a powerful but shorter lived
GHG.. CO2 is a weaker but longer lived one.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I think we disagree on what 'fringe' means here, so
> I'll leave that to semantics. To me, 'fringe' is an
> insignificant portion of the population. I wouldn't
> say that is true anymore.
I'll grant that those of us who buy 'green' power are a growing faction.
I'm hoping that our willingness to pay more is noted for future
development AND that our current dollars go more into growing renewable
energy creation.
> It's because of cheap power that they can sell it at
> the prices they do. It takes a bunch of electricity
> to process gasoline. They don't burn oil to make oil,
> as it turns out.
NONE of our options for power storage are power-neutral -- all
technologies require power to extract, process, and deliver, and all
storage systems require energy to be created. There ain't no such thing
as a free lunch (Heinlein's TANSTAAFL).
> > -- I wish EV batteries were as simple and economical
> > as a petroleum tank!
> <snip> The whole business of oil exteriorizes its true
> costs by making itself not liable for the damage it is causing.
> Once you factor in the exteriorized costs, it gets a lot more
> complicated than EVs.
Agreed for the first part... but that second statement feels overly
optimistic. I can't imagine that ANY energy transport/storage mechanism
won't have significant costs, when scaled to worldwide solution. Demand
for oil arguably drives geopolitics -- so, too, will demand for battery
chemistries, rare-earth magnets, heck even steel for the frames.
TANSTAAFL for ANY technology.
> > > Even if we were to produce ALL of the electricity
> > > for our cars from oil, including generator inefficiencies,
> > > the total emissions would drop.
> >Citation, please?
> <snipped excellent back-of-the-envelope math>
* assume 60% efficiency at diesel-powered clean power plant generators
* assume 75% efficiency in electric cars (fast chargers and decent
batts)
* assume 90% efficiency with line losses
> Result is equal efficiency with burning diesel fuel in an auto
> engine, and vastly improved emmisions.
Sounds great, now we just need affordable mass-market cars to realize
it!
Sincere thanks for fleshing out the example, Tim! I frankly didn't
expect an answer...
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
When they say 20hp they are talking continuous.
"20" from an electric is not the same as "20" from an ICE right? If
the electric was on the dyno, what might it be putting down to the
tires?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My two cents on who killed the electric car: Not just GM. Imho, we can include
mis-information from industry, "experts", and lack of affordable/reliable
controllers, chargers, gauges, and tinkerers. The electric vehicle option will
be difficult for many people. Even at VEVA, the Vancouver Electric Vehicle
Association, most of its officers either don't own an electric car, or have
EV's that aren't working, or have EV's that they are going to sell due to
frustration with parts and components. In another example, Bayla at Flora
Health in Burnaby alleged that his company gave up on an electric minivan, that
was made by CANEV, because its Trojan batteries only provided usable range for
a short while. Their female staff (according to Bayla) were scared to drive
Flora's e-minivan because they didn't know how far it would go. At times, even
after a full charge, it lost power after just going around the block. (My group
knows why Flora's batteries didn't work properly.) So, Bayla
says Flora traded in their electric minivan for a Prius hybrid, losing
thousands of dollars on their EV project. This isn't the only EV disaster story
in BC.
However, my group is determined to find every solution to make EV's work
reliably, for everyday use. It took me, with tons of help from friends, two
years to solve the six major hurdles to electric biking. We're determined to
win, in the electric 4-wheel game, too.
Rob Matthies
Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi EVerybody;
If you don't have your own copy of WKtEC?? Ya mean ya DON'T??Fix that
RIGHT NOW! Netflix is selling them, used for $8.47 out their door, shipped!
Just ordered another copy. I like having a few around, ya never
know?Inconvenient Truth is in there, too.
I just got a E mail thing from Net flix, as I'm a member. The TV set is
good for SOMETHING!Watching ad free movies.
Be Scene ya
Bob
Revived Battery EV going up Lions Gate Bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Look Familiar?
(you'll have to sign up for a free registration)
http://spectrum.ieee.org/apr07/inthisissue
The IEEE Vehicular Technology Society will be holding its International VTS
Conference in Anchorage in 2009. I will be on the
Local Arrangements committee to help their EVent go off without a hitch. I
talked to these folks last year shortly after I got my
truck on the road. They admitted there is not much in the way of electric
propulsion floating around their journals. They
invited me to submit an article for their magazine. I haven't had much time
for writing so if ayone wants to put together a
semi-scholarly article on anything to do with EV's let me know off list and
I'll put you in touch with their magazine editor.
This is the IEEE Vehicular Technology Society mind you and not the IEEE
Spectrum magazing which is featuring the Tesla above.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The site is back up after I called them. Over 448000 want it
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph Lado
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 8:13 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: ReVolt, Chelsea and Chris and the Power of DC
For the last week the Vote for the Volt site has not been
functioning. The Chevy Volt is a concept automobile that runs mainly off
of
electricity that it gets off of either by being connected to an ordinary
household outlet or through an on board generator. Because the drive
train is
all electric the fuel to generate the electricity needed to keep the
vehicle
moving can be flexible. It isn't the Volt that I want GM to produce, but
a
flexible fuel vehicle that can use electricity as one of its many fuels.
You
may have read my posts where I talk about the Mufpishvee concept. This
is a
multi-fuel, flexible fuel, plug-in, series hybrid vehicle (MF-FF-PSHV).
By
having a variety of choices in fuels no one fuel can hold us hostage to
what
has occurred with oil, that being that terror, natural disaster,
oversupply,
undersupply, hording etc. can affect the price. We as Americans should
be free
to choose which fuel we want to use to power our vehicles, whether they
be for
environmental, political, strategic or religious reasons, the choice
should be
ours. My hope is that by having very large numbers of people voting for
the
vehicle, maybe GM will realize that there is real demand behind a
product like
this one. Demand typically is the driving force behind production. So,
please
help me once again in sending a message to GM that we want them to
produce fuel
efficient vehicles that can be fueled from a variety of sources. I want
everyone who reads this to go to the Chevy site and vote for the Volt.
<p>
<blockquote>
Click
here to go to the Chevy Volt website When at the site
go to the lower part of the page and to the left. Click on
Vote for Volt Survey.
<P>
If you want to send a message directly to GM you can
follow the link below.
<P>
http://www.chevrolet.com/contactus/getinformation/
<p>
You may want to put something like this:
<P>
"I want buy a vehicle like the Volt that plugs in for
electric charging, but also has unlimited range through a flexible fuel
generator."
<P>
PS. Electric Vehicle activist like me in the Washington,
DC area have put together a demonstration of electric vehicles happening
on
June 2nd and 3rd. This happening is called the Power of DC. It is a
demonstration
of electric maneuverability, rang and look on June 2nd at the Hagerstown
Community College parking lot and an official drag race on Sunday, June
3rd. We
are still looking for more vehicles to participate. The event on Sunday
we are
hoping will be more of a gallery event. So if there are schools out
there that
want to show off their vehicles and not actually race them please go to
the
link below and communicate with the organizer. We would love to see
super
efficient vehicles, solar vehicles and the like on display so that
spectators
can see what alternative vehicles and fuels are all about. We also need
sponsors, donators and advertisers as well. http://www.powerofdc.com/ JL
<P>
PSS. Chelsea Sexton and Chris Paine of the movie Who
Killed the Electric Car? will be speaking at the Northern Virginia
Community
College's Loudon Campus this April 11th. There will be electric vehicles
there
from EVA/DC as well. http://www.nvcc.edu/loudoun/directions/default.htm
JL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, new to the list.
I have an opportunity to buy an electric truck that was converted as a
prototype over 10 years ago. It has been sitting in a garage unused ever
since. I am trying to determine a fair market price. Here are the specs:
Motor: Advanced DC FB1-4001
Controller: Curtis 1231C (500A)
Batteries: 20 new 12V PbA Deka DC31DT (2 parallel strings of 10)
Body: 1994 Ford Ranger short cab, short bed (1,800 miles - spotless and
looks like it came through a time machine)
DC/DC: Curtis 72v/12v (tapping only 6 batteries)
Transmission: ICE manual 5-speed
Brakes: OEM with vacuum pump
On board Charger: Zivan NG-1
Garage charger: Lester 120v/20Amp metal-metal connector
Steering: Switch-enabled electric
Suspension: Additional rear leaf-springs
Tires: Stock
Any thought on a fair price?
Secondly, my State Farm rep claims they cannot insure the vehicle. Does
anyone have experience insuring an EV in Pennsylvania?
Richard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks- I have been looking bit its difficult to find the size I
need, close though.
On Apr 16, 2007, at 7:12 PM, bortel wrote:
If you're not trying to do an overnight conversion and you want to
save
money, go check eBay. These types of boxes are almost always listed.
You can get almost anything for an EV on eBay for a lot less money
if you do
a little research, know what you want, know what is a good price to
pay, and
have a little time to wait for one to show up, if it isn't listed
right now.
Just my 2 pennies.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Dutko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 11:46 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
I'm looking for a ABS or Polyester 10X11X4 approx high box for my
contactors and relays. Something with a screw top not mote than 5"H.
Does anyone know of a good source? I've looked at Hoffman, Budd,
Hammond. Any others? Other suggestions? I don't want to use metal of
aluminum.
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2007/03/gm_charging_ahe_1.html
Timothy Balcer wrote:
If you believe that GM is going to put out an EV without delaying
tactics, you have another thing coming. They know their income model
is seriously threatened by BEVs, and -even more- by PHEVs. PHEVs would
actually be immediately accepted by people, and they would suddenly
realize they dont -need- to use the gas engine much and start
demanding a BEV. The Volt is nothing more than an effort to get rid of
the bad publicity that was generated by WKTEC, end of statement. If it
was a real effort, they would be retooling their EV1 project since it
is already designed and they would save millions by eating some cake
and using it. Essentially ignoring the EV1 and continuing on the old
'technology is not there yet', continuing to demand that there was no
consumer interest, etc is ridiculous, and a clear indicator of their
falseness in this regard.
When you see that the Rav4 EVs have been going for 100s of thousands
of miles with almost no maintenance, except for suspension, tires,
etc, you realize why they REALLY do not want to put these things on
the streets.
As far as I am concerned. GM deserves nothing from me but contempt,
and when they get their arses handed to them by independents and go
under, I'll raise a toast to days gone by and good riddens.
On 4/16/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Still doesnt explain why the Volt "prototype" is
> still basically a cardboard box with no drivetrain.
It is a CAR SHOW CAR! In auto jargon a 'buck.'
Car show concepts are built to look pretty, to dip a toe in the public
pool.
Where GM goes forward is certainly up for discussion, considering where
they have been in the past, but c'mon, faulting them for having a
minimally-motive buck is about like wondering why the stars don't
twinkle on a theatrical backdrop.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
fully agree !
what is not 'promoted' is that ev's can outperform
i.c.e. vehicles without costing a fortune per mile to
run !
i still haven't got any reply to that video clip where
a VW beetle reared up like a horse when it accelerated ..
and that's something that will work for ANY person ..
to convince him that ev's can do things which our
cars just cannot !
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:02 AM
Subject: Need for Speed (was RE: Silly Tweety!)
> > Fast EVs get noticed...It's one of our best selling concepts.
> Sure is... we stand a better chance wooing the masses by matching or
> beating ICE performance than we do by dumbing down ICEs...
>
> Kudos to all that are pushing the limits in the direction of more
> wide-spread acceptance!
>
> Efficiency is important, but balancing performance against pure
> efficiency is the way to woo the world...
>
> Randii
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/761 - Release Date: 4/14/2007
9:36 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Excellent GM Volt video
> ... They know their income model is seriously threatened by BEVs,
> and -even more- by PHEVs.
a very valid conclusion ..
the ice vehicle killed the electric car(s) of the early 1900's
the ev will kill the ice cars today ..
it will be wrong to close down the profitable product lines
and make the 'right' kind of vehicles .. happens all the time ..
i know of one good maker of good fans .. so good that the
fans never went bad .. so no need for replacments or even
servicing or of parts .. they went bust .. product was tooo good
for business
i see another maker who makes awful quality fans .. and
have seen him grow 10 times in last few years .. lifetime
guarantee .. never works .. fans go bad every 3 years ..
was 5 years before .. and people get them repaired
all are happy .. consumers .. since price is 'cheap' .. local
electricians .. since they have windings job every 3 to 5 years ..
bearings need to be changed .. company earns a lot
wierd are the ways of businesses
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
test
>
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2007/04/16 Mon AM 02:34:33 EDT
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Jacob has Tagged you! :)
>
> Sorry, gang. I don't know where this message came from, but it should not
> have been able to pass through the EVDL filters. I've forwarded it to the
> SJSU support staff for analysis.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Here's the reply about it's location at New
College. There will be EV discussions afterward. I'll be
there.
Also comments on EV's below.
Jerry
it will be shown in Palm Court at New College at 9pm this
Tuesday, the 17th. The address of New College is 5800
Bayshore Dr, Sarasota, Fl 34243. Palm Court is on the east
(residential) side of campus. New College's website in
www.ncf.edu and if you go there you can find a map of campus
with palm court shown on it. Hope to see you there, if you
need any more info let me know!
namaste
Amy
On 4/15/07, jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to come see the WKTEC.
What time, where will it be shown?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
>My two cents on who killed the electric car: Not just GM.
>Imho, we can include mis-information from industry,
>"experts", and lack of affordable/reliable controllers,
>chargers, gauges, and tinkerers.
There are a large number of very reliable EV
componants that have been used in industural EV's for a
century that are very suitable for EV's!!! Some Baker
Electrics still running and even have the original batteries
in them, did 100 mile range back in the 1910's so it rather
a stretch that reliable EV parts are not available for
excellent Ev's.
It's really the EV gliders where EV's fail,
conversions needing 2-3x's as large battery pack,
controller, motor, charger, connections, ect that drive up
the cost, number of parts to fail for the same range, speed.
The only real things needed to make EV's sucessful
are good gliders built for, as EV's, to lower EV, vehicle
parts, lifetime costs. And education on the care and feeding
of batteries. Everything else is already here, proven.
For low cost EV parts I'd go to local forklift, DC
motor shops and look for orphaned motors, contactors at very
low costs or even whole forklifts, take what's good and sell
the rest for scrap. A 50 yr old electric motor is just
getting to midlife!!
Jerry Dycus
The electric vehicle
>option will be difficult for many people. Even at VEVA, the
>Vancouver Electric Vehicle Association, most of its
>officers either don't own an electric car, or have EV's
>that aren't working, or have EV's that they are going to
>sell due to frustration with parts and components. In
>another example, Bayla at Flora Health in Burnaby alleged
>that his company gave up on an electric minivan, that was
>made by CANEV, because its Trojan batteries only provided
>usable range for a short while. Their female staff
>(according to Bayla) were scared to drive Flora's e-minivan
>because they didn't know how far it would go. At times,
>even after a full charge, it lost power after just going
>around the block. (My group knows why Flora's batteries
>didn't work properly.) So, Bayla
> says Flora traded in their electric minivan for a Prius
>hybrid, losing thousands of dollars on their EV project.
>This isn't the only EV disaster story in BC.
>
>However, my group is determined to find every solution to
>make EV's work reliably, for everyday use. It took me, with
>tons of help from friends, two years to solve the six major
>hurdles to electric biking. We're determined to win, in the
>electric 4-wheel game, too.
>
>
>Rob Matthies
>
>
>
>Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi EVerybody;
>
> If you don't have your own copy of WKtEC?? Ya mean ya
>DON'T??Fix that RIGHT NOW! Netflix is selling them, used
>for $8.47 out their door, shipped! Just ordered another
>copy. I like having a few around, ya never
>know?Inconvenient Truth is in there, too.
>
> I just got a E mail thing from Net flix, as I'm a
>member. The TV set is good for SOMETHING!Watching ad free
>movies.
>
> Be Scene ya
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Needs a few upgrades - probably worth about $7500, give or take.
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Krog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: Price point needed
Hi, new to the list.
I have an opportunity to buy an electric truck that was converted as a
prototype over 10 years ago. It has been sitting in a garage unused ever
since. I am trying to determine a fair market price. Here are the specs:
Motor: Advanced DC FB1-4001
Controller: Curtis 1231C (500A)
Batteries: 20 new 12V PbA Deka DC31DT (2 parallel strings of 10)
Body: 1994 Ford Ranger short cab, short bed (1,800 miles - spotless and
looks like it came through a time machine)
DC/DC: Curtis 72v/12v (tapping only 6 batteries)
Transmission: ICE manual 5-speed
Brakes: OEM with vacuum pump
On board Charger: Zivan NG-1
Garage charger: Lester 120v/20Amp metal-metal connector
Steering: Switch-enabled electric
Suspension: Additional rear leaf-springs
Tires: Stock
Any thought on a fair price?
Secondly, my State Farm rep claims they cannot insure the vehicle. Does
anyone have experience insuring an EV in Pennsylvania?
Richard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One the great things about Tweety are that it draws attention because it looks
so silly. Then it’s the contrast between its looks and performance that makes
such an impression on people. So, it turns out that its silly looks are a real
benefit in helping EV’s gets noticed.
The other thing we have learned is that you have to concentrate on visual
performance to promote EV's. Stay away from the environment thing. That is a
big turn off for most of the general public. After they are thoroughly blown
away by the performance, they usually will mention the environmental benefit
themselves. It's been our experience that when people witness the performance,
the significance of argued negative points of EVs becomes very diluted.
I had someone ask if Tweety had a V6 engine. I said no, it has an 8 inch.
After a long bewildered look on their face, I finally said, “it’s electric”.
That completely blew them away.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 8:32 PM
Subject: Need for Speed (was RE: Silly Tweety!)
> Fast EVs get noticed...It's one of our best selling concepts.
Sure is... we stand a better chance wooing the masses by matching or
beating ICE performance than we do by dumbing down ICEs...
Kudos to all that are pushing the limits in the direction of more
wide-spread acceptance!
Efficiency is important, but balancing performance against pure
efficiency is the way to woo the world...
Randii
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> ... They know their income model is seriously threatened by BEVs,
> and -even more- by PHEVs.
a very valid conclusion ..
the ice vehicle killed the electric car(s) of the early 1900's
the ev will kill the ice cars today ..
it will be wrong to close down the profitable product lines
and make the 'right' kind of vehicles .. happens all the time ..
i know of one good maker of good fans .. so good that the
fans never went bad .. so no need for replacments or even
servicing or of parts .. they went bust .. product was tooo good
for business
i see another maker who makes awful quality fans .. and
have seen him grow 10 times in last few years .. lifetime
guarantee .. never works .. fans go bad every 3 years ..
was 5 years before .. and people get them repaired
all are happy .. consumers .. since price is 'cheap' .. local
electricians .. since they have windings job every 3 to 5 years ..
bearings need to be changed .. company earns a lot
wierd are the ways of businesses
This is the trouble with anecdotes, though. Harvard Business teaches
many things, and one of them is obsolesence. The object lesson in the
lightbulb company going bankrupt because their product was too good
(here you are talking about fans) is NOT an example of how not to do
business, it is supposed to show you how non diversification can
cripple your business, and that the only way to suceed in a
specialized line is through planned destruction (making crappy
products). That is supposed to be a bad idea, by the way.
There is no reason you can't make a fantastic, durable product and
stay in business. You just have to be LESS GREEDY. :-) The Stock
Market precludes that though, since the mantra is 'grow grow grow' so
if you make durable goods that last, you won't grow quickly, and
therefore you will take a hit in the market. If you diversify they
will say you are not sticking to your 'core competency' and you take a
hit. And so on.
The auto is too expensive and important for us to leave in the hands
of folks that are only interested in profit. Making money is great,
but not at the expense of the good of all. Ultimately, the big
companies are going to to get their behinds handed to them by the BEV
guys if they don't get with the program. I don't think very many
people were fooled by the Volt.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He can talk talk talk all he wants. They crushed the EV1s that were
already working, and that they were already tooled for, and which
people were already driving. They already had a pipeline, they already
had a design. They already had battery technology that they OWNED.
They already had 10s of thousands of people that had signed up for
one.
To reintroduce the EV1 would have cost much, much less than this pie
in the sky thing they are touting.
GM is a freaking monolith. They don't care about US. They don't care
about the environment. They don't care about energy.
They care about PROFIT. Repeat after me. PROFIT.
Everything that comes out of this guy's mouth is PR to maximize
profit. GM has been taking serious hits from WKTEC and they did this
to deflect from that. They are GREENWASHING themselves. They do not
intend on actually doing anything unless they have no other choice.
These are the people who lied to, manipulated, bullied and outright
screamed at the CARB. These are the people who sicked the Bushies on
CA with threats of federal lawsuits. These are the guys who lied when
they say they spent a billion on the EV1 (yeah right.. lets see the
receipts). These are the guys who then turned around and sold the NiMH
patent rights to Chevron, the company that Condi Rice is so in bed
with and which has been ruthless repressing the use of large format
NiMH technology in anything that even smells like an EV.
No. GM is not going to be honest about this. They are not going to be
producing the next great car anytime soon. They are shyte, profit
mongers and as far as I am concerned I'll be laughing as I dance on
their stock ticker as they stop trading when they dissolve into little
pieces.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe, Richard and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Price point needed
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:15:46 -0700
>Needs a few upgrades - probably worth about $7500, give or
>take.
Considering it's dead and once people price out it's
expensive battery pack, it should go for a lot less, about
$3-5k. Other comments below.
You could buy most everything it has you need for
under $5k or much less used. So much over that and you can
build your own better.
>
>Joseph H. Strubhar
>
>Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
>E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Krog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:05 PM
>Subject: Price point needed
>
>
>> Hi, new to the list.
>>
>> I have an opportunity to buy an electric truck that was
>> converted as a prototype over 10 years ago. It has been
>> sitting in a garage unused ever since. I am trying to
>>determine a fair market price. Here are the specs:
>> Motor: Advanced DC FB1-4001
>> Controller: Curtis 1231C (500A)
>> Batteries: 20 new 12V PbA Deka DC31DT (2 parallel strings
>> of 10)
Wrong batts as they are about 3x's as expensive as
golf cart types that will give better range for muchy less
money.
Body: 1994 Ford Ranger short cab, short bed (1,800
>> miles - spotless and looks like it came through a time
>> machine) DC/DC: Curtis 72v/12v (tapping only 6 batteries)
Not good!! Remove it and replace with another of the
whole pack voltage. This and the charger are probably why
this EV failed by unbalancing, overcharging the pack.
>> Transmission: ICE manual 5-speed
>> Brakes: OEM with vacuum pump
Replace with manual brakes.
>> On board Charger: Zivan NG-1
>> Garage charger: Lester 120v/20Amp metal-metal connector
Great for GC batts, deadly for sealed!!
>> Steering: Switch-enabled electric
Replace with manual.
>> Suspension: Additional rear leaf-springs
>> Tires: Stock
>>
>> Any thought on a fair price?
>>
>> Secondly, my State Farm rep claims they cannot insure the
>> vehicle. Does anyone have experience insuring an EV in
>>Pennsylvania?
State Farm insures other EV's so you might want to
check another agent. Progressive insures EV's along with
other companies.
Jerry Dycus
>> Richard
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Solectria gearbox at least initially used the differential from a
Metro/Swift/Sprint/Firefly transmission; I suspect it still does.
Keith
peekay wrote:
any details of how the differential works inside
solectria's AC motor (geared version) ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/acgearbox.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kieth Dude!!!
Long time no hear!
Doing any BLDC design work??
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Motor to Axle Options
> The Solectria gearbox at least initially used the differential from a
> Metro/Swift/Sprint/Firefly transmission; I suspect it still does.
>
> Keith
>
> peekay wrote:
> > any details of how the differential works inside
> > solectria's AC motor (geared version) ?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/acgearbox.shtml
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't have an electric car yet, but I'm considering purchase of a 1980
Commuta Car that needs new batteries and has "leaky brake cylinders."
Alternatively I am considering an electric conversion vehicle. I typically
drive 25-30 miles daily.
I'm told it takes 8 golf cart batteries that cost ~$60 each (6 volt I
assume). Does that sound right? How much range/speed should I expect from
this vehicle with new batteries? At one site I heard range is 33-60 miles
and top speed is 50 mph, but the ranges and top speeds listed on
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/type/CCCC vary considerably.
Do these cars have a stock on board charger? If so, How many hours does it
take to fully charge the batteries with the stock charger?
My impression is that these cars are very unsafe and hazardous if involved
in a wreck. Thoughts?
Any experience out there fixing leaky brake cylinders on Commuta Cars?
Will the car fit on a 4X8 trailer (I think it will)? Does anyone know how
much it weighs (I think ~1400 lb with batteries)?
The vehicle is about 250 miles from where I live so I have not seen it. I've
never bid on a vehicle sight unseen, but considering that I live in Kansas
City and there is a dirth of ready to drive EV's available here I guess I'll
need to do so if I really want an EV. What else should I ask about before
making a sight-unseen offer?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tad Coles
--- End Message ---
