EV Digest 6673
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) "Power-UP" less than a month away... May 14-15
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DC Systems 1200 Overheating
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) What Parts Weigh
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: wrapping up the regen discussion
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 1980 Commuta Car brakes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: DC Systems 1200 Overheating
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What Parts Weigh
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: how businesses work
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What Parts Weigh
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) RE: What Parts Weigh
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: What Parts Weigh
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 71 VW Micro Bus
by Lucile Beatty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) fuse size
by Bruce Williford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What Parts Weigh
by Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: fuse size
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: fuse size
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: What Parts Weigh
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Zilla question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: What Parts Weigh
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: fuse size
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: adding new battery to old(er) pack
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Zilla question part 2
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: What Parts Weigh
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Zilla question
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Zilla question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: fuse size
by Bruce Williford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: how businesses work
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: NEMA 4 boxes for contactors
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/17/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Volt is nothing more than an effort to get rid of the bad
> publicity that was generated by WKTEC, end of statement.
I disagree, but I understand where you are coming from. I'm not drinking
their Kool-aid, but I'm also not spreading doom, gloom, and FUD to
enhance the chance of it failing. Seems like a recipe for a
self-fulfilling prophecy, driven by the potential consumers themselves!
Randii, I'm not spreading anything but what actually happened. FUD is,
by its nature, a distortion of the facts in order to sow fear. I
didn't do that. I am simply reporting what they did, in fact, do. And
not even all of it.
As far as I am concerned, GM is on my contempt list, end of story.
They sit there with Coke and a few other gems whom I've stopped buying
products from, and whom I talk to my friends about in VERY honest
terms.
Why is it always considered FUD and gloom 'n doom when someone B^&%ch
slaps a big company? Do people really have that much compassion for a
corporation?
They totally, completely, intentionally screwed us, and our children.
End of story. There is no coming back from that as far as I am
concerned.
They're likelier to get their arses handled by their own unrealistic
business commitments to Big Labor, but I expect that the folks who claim
that their EV efforts are going to fail will also claim that their own
strident voice was what brought GM down.
Their EV efforts are not going to fail, mate. GM isn't going to HAVE
an EV effort. That's the whole point. They have missed the boat
completely. The BEV market is going to explode in a few years time,
and by 2020 we will be seeing 100k+/year EVs sold by major
manufacturers like Tesla and Phoenix. By that time we will see Lithium
technology that will give us better than 400 miles per charge, and
roadside charge times in the minutes instead of hours. In the
meantime, GM will still be struggling with the spectre of the EV1
disaster that they initiated. And they don't actually believe that
people actually, really -want- EVs. Neither does Ford, for that
matter. They believe that it is a 'vocal fringe' that can cause them
PR damage, but will not significantly affect sales unless they don't
do counterspin.. hence.. The Volt.
Oh and by the way I disagree with you about so called 'big labor', but
thats another discussion :)
Me, I'll support anyone who brings a mass-marketable, mass-producable,
PHEV or BEV to market at modest cost. Heck, I'd own one today if I could
find one that met my wife's carrying capacity requirements. Until that
happens, I'm on track to build my own lightweight runabout since I can't
find what I seek (thought the Bug-E is pretty close!)
I will buy an EV from a company that shows it is actually commited to
the technology and the promise of EV transport. Like Tesla, Phoenix,
VentureOne, etc. MAYBE Toyota if they ever get their heads out of
their arses and make a PHEV that gets 50 miles on a charge without
ICE, and doesn't look like an erector set toy. But I'll never buy a GM
product again.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For thouse in Wa, Or, Id, Mt, and No.Cal...
"Power-UP Electrifying Transportation" a 2 day Summit in Wenatchee
Convention Cednter - Wenatchee WA. will be a BIG DEAL !
and the Prius which folks from SEVA converted is the Star of the Show...
Details and Registration at:
http://www.plugincenter.com/index.php?page_id=248
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 1200 has an auxiliary fan in it already. Hope
yours does too. The fan will often want to stay on
after I'm done driving.
The point is that I'll need to leave the car on for
a few minutes so that the transistors cool.
I'd call up Peter and see from him what he
suggests, or when you say you've asked for advice, it
has been from him?
Probably a no brainer, but do you have your
controller mounted horizontally?
My rig is pulling 150 constant with no problems,
and I'm at about 3K lbs., give or take 200. Weight?
Wish I could help more...
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello everybody:
>
> Come summer, I always have the problem with an
> overheating DCP-1200
> controller. I asked for some advise before, but
> haven't found any solution
> yet. Here's my problem:
>
> With outside temps. >= 80 degrees, I can't pull more
> then about 150
> battery amps through the controller for any time >=
> 10 minutes without the
> red control LED coming on. The fan works just fine,
> I even installed a
> auxiliary blower so that the controller gets fresh
> air from below the car,
> but it doesn't make a difference. The other day the
> red led came on but,
> since I had to make it home, I reduced amps to about
> 75 A and limped home,
> I let the truck sit in the driveway with power on,
> fans blowing, but even
> after 1/2 hour, the overheat light was solid red.
>
> I took the controller out of the truck today -
> thinking that maybe a wasp
> had built a home-site in it, but nothing. Some dust,
> but nothing serious.
>
> So - what else might be the problem? Any suggestions
> are welcome.
>
> Michaela
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm shopping around looking for a car to convert to an EV.
I'm looking at the cars listed "Curb Weight" vs GVWR so I have an idea of
how many lbs of batteries will fit.
But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank (25lbs?)
Does anyone have numbers from their own conversions they could post?
Just trying to figure out what to look for in a car that I want to convert.
Some vehicles are 2,800lbs curb and have a GVWR thats 1,200lbs more.
Others are only 1,900lbs, but their GVWR is only 600lbs more.
Thank you :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 16, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
Yes, this is about as crude a method as you can get. I used this
method on my first EV, with a 36v battery pack and aircraft 30v 500a
starter/generator. Field control alone ran it from about 2000-8000
rpm. You had to start the motor with the clutch depressed, and use the
clutch to get going smoothly. Torque at high rpm was also pretty
feeble, so it wouldn't go over about 40 mph.
This could be great if I could find a suitable sep-ex motor. I'd like
to run about 120 volts or a little more worth of AGM batteries, have an
acceptable "idle speed" (2000 rpm would be fine but 1500 rpm would be
better), and eliminate the voltage steps (apply the full 120 or so
volts to the armature for the idle.)
The throttle would have a very different "feel" but regen would be
included for free. I'd want to put a shunt in there with a circuit to
detect more than mild regen (more than foot off throttle in an ICE car)
to light the brake lights. A little more "stuff" to make sure the
armature couldn't be powered without the field powered first and
perhaps a little something to provide an all off mode when appropriate
(when idling isn't needed.)
Another EV with a series wound DC motor is easy. A higher voltage basic
shunt control EV would be cool and offer me some new challenges in my
'66 Datsun project. I have no idea where to even look to find the
appropriate motor (more efficient and higher voltage than an easily
available aircraft motor/generator.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tad Coles wrote:
I'm considering purchase of a 1980 Comuta Car that needs new batteries
and has "leaky brake cylinders." I typically drive 25-30 miles daily.
I drove a ComutaVan for 7 years, which is the (slightly) bigger brother
of the ComutaCar. You won't have any problem going 25-30 miles a day
with the ComutaCar. Mine (with 12 batteries) would go 40-50 miles on a
charge.
I'm told it takes 8 golf cart batteries that cost ~$60 each (6 volt I
assume). Does that sound right?
Yes. Though battery cost is more like $75 each at the moment. You can
get cheap ones at Sam's Club, or good ones from a US Battery or Trojan
dealer for a bit more.
top speed is 50 mph...
That's an exaggeration; I'd say 45 mph is the absolute top, and even
that would require a long time and every little detail being perfect.
Do these cars have a stock on board charger?
Mine came only with an off-board charger (a big Lester) which would
fully charge the pack in 8-12 hours. I don't think there was a "stock"
charger -- just whatever was available at the moment.
My impression is that these cars are very unsafe and hazardous if involved
in a wreck. Thoughts?
The ComutaCar has all the mandated safety equipment, as well as a full
roll cage and huge "safety" bumpers. It actually passed the government
crash tests in 1980, so it was about as safe as any other car of the
day. Standards have certainly become much tighter since.
I'd say the weak points were the brakes, steering, and suspension. They
used trailer parts, which are pretty crude. This makes them very cheap
to fix, however. The ride was like an old Jeep -- very rough and bouncy.
These vehicles are fine as an NEV for under-35 mph speeds (but not
legally limited like NEVs). But handling gets very squirrelly at highway
speeds. My ComutaVan had a lengthened wheelbase which helped, but was
still poor.
Any experience out there fixing leaky brake cylinders on Commuta Cars?
I'd replace the crappy trailer brakes with something out of a more
modern normal car.
PS: It's "Comuta" with one "M".
Will the car fit on a 4X8 trailer (I think it will)?
No; it's bigger than that. It's about 55" wide x 120" long x 60" high.
Does anyone know how much it weighs (I think ~1400 lb with batteries)?
About right.
The vehicle is about 250 miles from where I live so I have not seen it.
What else should I ask about before making a sight-unseen offer?
If it's been left outdoors, the plastic body will be severely cracked
and degraded by the sun. That's fixable; they are nearly flat panels
that were heat-formed and pop-riveted to the frame.
You'll probably have to take almost everything apart, clean,
relubricate, and reassemble it. But that's unusually easy -- these
things are about as sophisticated as a Ford model T.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
john fisher wrote:
is fiberglas OK? It would be a good solution for me, maybe others...
There are UL listed fiberglass NEMA cases; they certainly can be used
for electrical parts. UL would have tested the electrical insulating and
fire retardant characteristics.
However, you still need to be sure you aren't trying to dissipate too
much heat inside a closed box.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
Come summer, I always have the problem with an overheating DCP-1200
controller. I asked for some advise before, but haven't found any solution
The header/connector between the power stage and the control board on
DCP controllers seems prone to corrosion which can cause either bad temp
readings, or under performance. Every troubled DCP I've seen so far was
that connector.
Mark
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
john fisher wrote:
is fiberglas OK? It would be a good solution for me, maybe others...
There are UL listed fiberglass NEMA cases; they certainly can be used
for electrical parts. UL would have tested the electrical insulating and
fire retardant characteristics.
thats good. could be useful in future... Its easy to make fiberglas boxes for anyone dubious about the technology. Just
use the epoxy instead of vinylester.
However, you still need to be sure you aren't trying to dissipate too
much heat inside a closed box.
right - holes, fans, heat sinks and so forth.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
>> stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank
>> (25lbs?)
Repeat after me: Google is my friend. ;-)
I would guess that 200lbs would be the low end for an engine. Here's a page
with a bunch of weights:
http://www.241computers.com/ford/ContentExpress20-30-38.html
Also, don't forget the weight of the gas itself. A quick Google search
suggests a range from 6 to 8 pounds per gallon, so a full 15-gallon tank
would be 90-120 pounds.
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contactors generate heat that would be too hot for a 12X12 box? I'm
not suggesting a dc/dc in a sealed box..
On Apr 17, 2007, at 5:31 PM, john fisher wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
john fisher wrote:
is fiberglas OK? It would be a good solution for me, maybe others...
There are UL listed fiberglass NEMA cases; they certainly can be
used for electrical parts. UL would have tested the electrical
insulating and fire retardant characteristics.
thats good. could be useful in future... Its easy to make fiberglas
boxes for anyone dubious about the technology. Just use the epoxy
instead of vinylester.
However, you still need to be sure you aren't trying to dissipate
too much heat inside a closed box.
right - holes, fans, heat sinks and so forth.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:10 AM 4/17/2007, peekay wrote:
he didn't want to give up his hold easily either ! today linux does
all that other systems do .. and many more things that other systems
just cannot do
Sorry, I disagree here. As long as you don't count Useability or
Documentation, it's pretty good.
From the average end-user perspective who is NOT a Unix Guru - it's
still close to sucks.
the problem of right things NOT happening because of the
way businesses work is still not solved .. so i see open source
designing of ev's happening rather soon !
The only way to bring prices down is mass-production. That just
won't happen with an "Open Source" EV. Anyone who can afford the $$$
to build a factory is likely to also hire engineers and designers to
get it "right", not just "pretty good".
Then it comes back to return on investment - and how much risk
somebody wants to take with millions of $.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lol, google is my friend, just not when one is being too specific. ;)
What do people use to check the actual weight of their vehicle?
I'm trying to figure out also why the curb weights for some 4drs are
lighter then 2drs of the same model? :P
>
> >> But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
> >> stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank
> >> (25lbs?)
>
> Repeat after me: Google is my friend. ;-)
>
> I would guess that 200lbs would be the low end for an engine. Here's a
> page
> with a bunch of weights:
>
> http://www.241computers.com/ford/ContentExpress20-30-38.html
>
> Also, don't forget the weight of the gas itself. A quick Google search
> suggests a range from 6 to 8 pounds per gallon, so a full 15-gallon tank
> would be 90-120 pounds.
>
> Skip
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are a few weights ( measured) from the ICE parts taken out of my Toyota
Echo:
Engine (1.5 liter, not including flywheel) : 146 lbs
Exhaust system ( conplete, including hanging hardware) : 33 lbs
Fuel tank ( incl 12 gal gas) : 88 #
This is a small car ( original curb wt 2040 lbs) with lightweight
components. Obviously. it depends a lot on what you are converting.
Phil
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: What Parts Weigh
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
I'm shopping around looking for a car to convert to an EV.
I'm looking at the cars listed "Curb Weight" vs GVWR so I have an idea of
how many lbs of batteries will fit.
But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank (25lbs?)
Does anyone have numbers from their own conversions they could post?
Just trying to figure out what to look for in a car that I want to convert.
Some vehicles are 2,800lbs curb and have a GVWR thats 1,200lbs more.
Others are only 1,900lbs, but their GVWR is only 600lbs more.
Thank you :)
_________________________________________________________________
Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year.
Start Today!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a scale that is from a landscaping-supply
company. They see me getting bark & rock often enough
that they had no issue with me getting a weight on my
Civic.
peace,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Lol, google is my friend, just not when one is being
> too specific. ;)
>
> What do people use to check the actual weight of
> their vehicle?
>
> I'm trying to figure out also why the curb weights
> for some 4drs are
> lighter then 2drs of the same model? :P
>
>
> >
> > >> But I'm unable to find numbers in general
> how much people lose by
> > >> stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust
> (50lbs?) and Gas tank
> > >> (25lbs?)
> >
> > Repeat after me: Google is my friend. ;-)
> >
> > I would guess that 200lbs would be the low end for
> an engine. Here's a
> > page
> > with a bunch of weights:
> >
> >
>
http://www.241computers.com/ford/ContentExpress20-30-38.html
> >
> > Also, don't forget the weight of the gas itself.
> A quick Google search
> > suggests a range from 6 to 8 pounds per gallon, so
> a full 15-gallon tank
> > would be 90-120 pounds.
> >
> > Skip
> >
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have experience with a conversion on a 71 VW Micro Bus - If so what
is your advise.
Thanks
Cile
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been lurking on the list for a couple of years while slowly
converting a '68 VW Ghia. Nine inch ADC, Curtis 1231C, 120 volts of
Trojan T-875's and enough bondo under its bra to be named Karmann
Electra (I promise to do better than that). It has been around the
block a few times, ala Forkenswift, running on a used, spewing 36v
pack on the back seat, cables routed through the window and an on/off
switch. Too fun!
I am now crimping cables, triple checking low voltage wiring, taping
up my wrenches and installing batteries. In hopes of not melting down
on my first real run what size fuse would you boys and girls recommend
to put in line with the battery pack?
Bruce in Fresno, Ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-04-17 at 16:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
> stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank (25lbs?)
>
> Does anyone have numbers from their own conversions they could post?
Try
http://www.geocities.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/EV/log/log.htm
It's a '66 Mustang--he kept track of the weights of most of the stuff he
took out of it. It's buried in the log, not summarized in a table or
anything.
--Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Bruce Williford
> Nine inch ADC, Curtis 1231C, 120 volts of Trojan T-875's...
> what size fuse would you boys and girls recommend to put in
> line with the battery pack?
A fuse is a protection device. You choose it according to what you want to
protect.
The batteries and motor are pretty tough. You can use a large fairly high
current slow-blow fuse, and it will still blow before the motor or batteries.
For example, I'm using a 400 amp slow-blow in each of my battery boxes. It will
carry 800 amps for about 1 minute.
An electronic controller like your Curtis is far more susceptible to damage. To
protect it, you need a *fast*-blow fuse, sized for a current *less* than the
maximum rated controller current. For example, I have a 300 amp fast-blow
semiconductor fuse in the B+ input to my Curtis 1231C.
You might think that since the controller is rated for 500 amps, this 300 amp
fuse would blow if I ever "floored it". Not so; the Curtis won't draw 500 amps
for more than 1 second or so, and then only if the motor is exactly at the
right RPM where it draws 500 amps at full pack voltage. So I've never blown
this fuse.
But if there is a fault and the controller loses control of the battery
current, this fuse will blow within a few seconds. That's still not fast enough
to prevent all damage, but it will limit the damage so the controller will
still be repairable.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fusetron type FRN-R is a good type, slow blow, rated 125vdc (FRS is rated
250vdc) Optimum current rating is about 300amps in my opinion. You don't
want nuisance failure on heavy acceleration, but you do want to prevent a
catastrophic melt down.
Check item 160107046806 on ebay right now. It is a FRN-R-225. You can make
your own fuse block by drilling the spades of the fuse and bolting it to
your cables.
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:49:57 -0700, Bruce Williford wrote
> I have been lurking on the list for a couple of years while slowly
> converting a '68 VW Ghia. Nine inch ADC, Curtis 1231C, 120 volts of
> Trojan T-875's and enough bondo under its bra to be named Karmann
> Electra (I promise to do better than that). It has been around the
> block a few times, ala Forkenswift, running on a used, spewing 36v
> pack on the back seat, cables routed through the window and an
> on/off switch. Too fun!
>
> I am now crimping cables, triple checking low voltage wiring,
> taping up my wrenches and installing batteries. In hopes of not
> melting down on my first real run what size fuse would you boys and
> girls recommend to put in line with the battery pack?
>
> Bruce in Fresno, Ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have actually been looking for a car to do a daily commute, so a 2dr
would be fine, but so many have low GVWR's.
(looking to put a lot of lead in, want a min of 40mi freeway range)
(30mi commute, mostly highway)
> Here are a few weights ( measured) from the ICE parts taken out of my
> Toyota
> Echo:
>
>
> Engine (1.5 liter, not including flywheel) : 146 lbs
>
> Exhaust system ( conplete, including hanging hardware) : 33 lbs
>
> Fuel tank ( incl 12 gal gas) : 88 #
>
> This is a small car ( original curb wt 2040 lbs) with lightweight
> components. Obviously. it depends a lot on what you are converting.
>
> Phil
>
>
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>Subject: What Parts Weigh
>>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>I'm shopping around looking for a car to convert to an EV.
>>I'm looking at the cars listed "Curb Weight" vs GVWR so I have an idea of
>>how many lbs of batteries will fit.
>>
>>But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
>>stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank (25lbs?)
>>
>>Does anyone have numbers from their own conversions they could post?
>>
>>Just trying to figure out what to look for in a car that I want to
>> convert.
>>Some vehicles are 2,800lbs curb and have a GVWR thats 1,200lbs more.
>>Others are only 1,900lbs, but their GVWR is only 600lbs more.
>>
>>Thank you :)
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year.
> Start Today!
> http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm actually wiring up my conversion and I have a question for those
familiar with Zilla setups. The cat 5 cable for connecting the Zilla
to the the hairball that came from Otmar is a bit on the short side.
Can I replace it with a custom cut length of cat 5 installing that
"black thing" from the original cable on the new cable.
What is that black thing anyway?
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
wow, thats really nice reading actually. gives a good idea of how much
time it can take to do things.
Thank you!
> On Tue, 2007-04-17 at 16:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>> But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
>> stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank (25lbs?)
>>
>> Does anyone have numbers from their own conversions they could post?
>
> Try
>
> http://www.geocities.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/EV/log/log.htm
>
> It's a '66 Mustang--he kept track of the weights of most of the stuff he
> took out of it. It's buried in the log, not summarized in a table or
> anything.
>
> --Steve
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> However, you still need to be sure you aren't trying to dissipate
>> too much heat inside a closed box.
Mark Dutko wrote:
Contactors generate heat that would be too hot for a 12X12 box?
I'm not suggesting a dc/dc in a sealed box.
Look at the specs for your contactors. See how much heat you can expect
their coils and contacts to produce.
Let's say you have two Albright SW200 contactors in that box. The data
sheet says the 12v continuous-duty coil dissipates 18 watts, and the
contacts have a 40mv drop at 100 amps (4 watts). Two of them dissipate
18+18+4+4 = 44 watts.
So, the question you have to answer is "how hot does it get inside that
box with 44 watts of heat being produced continuously"? You could
calculate it if you had all the numbers, but they are hard to get. So,
do a test: Stick 44 watts worth of resistors or light bulbs in the box,
and *measure* the temperature inside.
If there are literally no holes, and it's a plastic or fiberglass box,
you'll be amazed at how warm it can get inside!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bruce,
For a non-race EV, use a medium rated fuse of 400 to 500 amp rated at 250
VDC, if you are driving only on flat grades and keeping your acceleration at
a normal rate.
A Bussman 400 amp Semi Conductor bolt in fuse rated at 250 VDC or a
Littlefuse 500 amp 250 VDC fuse you can get at www.evparts.com.
My driving for the first 20 years with my EV was driving up a very steep 2
mile hill with speeds up to 60 mph with a high amp cobalt cells, I had to
use a Bussman 400 amp Limitron bolt in fuse that will only blow with a short
circuit, but can take a over current of 600 amps for about a minute and 6000
amps for a 0.1 second.
I was still running this Limitron fuse another 10 years and change it to a
Semi-Conductor fuse when I install a Warp 9 motor and driving at a maximum
of 250 battery amps with this motor.
To mount these fuses, you can build your own fuse holder. Go to a motor
shop and pick up some insulator board about 1/2 inch thick, some hard
insulator tubing, to make four standoff mounts for the board, and two
standoffs that will mount on top of the board that will have 3/8 brass bolts
going through the bottom of the board, through the stand offs and through
the fuses and cable terminals.
I tap the mounting board, so the bolts can screw in tight from the bottom
leaving about 2 inches of bolt thread protruding up. Make sure the head of
the bolts have clearance from the surface that the mounting board is mounted
to.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Williford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: fuse size
> I have been lurking on the list for a couple of years while slowly
> converting a '68 VW Ghia. Nine inch ADC, Curtis 1231C, 120 volts of
> Trojan T-875's and enough bondo under its bra to be named Karmann
> Electra (I promise to do better than that). It has been around the
> block a few times, ala Forkenswift, running on a used, spewing 36v
> pack on the back seat, cables routed through the window and an on/off
> switch. Too fun!
>
> I am now crimping cables, triple checking low voltage wiring, taping
> up my wrenches and installing batteries. In hopes of not melting down
> on my first real run what size fuse would you boys and girls recommend
> to put in line with the battery pack?
>
> Bruce in Fresno, Ca
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: adding new battery to old(er) pack
> Appologies if this ended up getting posted twice...
>
> Tomorrow I will be replacing my battery with the melted post with a new
> battery. The pack is around 8-9 months old, and has been sitting for a
> month uncharged. Is there anything special I need to do when I add in the
> new battery? Anything special to do for a pack that's been sitting this
> long?
>
> thanks - De
> Hi Deano;
Yes! Be nice to your batteries; Start slow, don't use lottsa amps. Just
go around the block a few times. Come back. charge it up again, go out
again, same deal. Think you are awaking something. Well, you are. You're
battery was sleeping, and will wake up easily IF you golightly for awile>
You don't like to be awakened in a panic mode, much nicer with a little
classical music?That new battery wants to break in, too. Of course you
should START with everybody charged up to begin with. Don't do any deep
cycles for a few weeks.Don't be afraid to drive the car about, just do
shallow cycles til everything wakes up.
I "Broke in" my T 145's years ago, in that way. Drove around town for a
few weaks til I thought they were ready for my regular abuse. They would
deal out the amps for a 60-70 mile run, on a charge.They lasted over 20k, so
they must have been happy?
My two cells worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone tried communicating with a hairball using a Palm Treo 650?
I have an old IIIxe that should work but I already carry the treo
around with me so it would be nice to use it instead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a good article on weight and balance. Gives weights of parts for a
Pinto and a Fiat 128.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/balance.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:48 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: What Parts Weigh
>
>
> wow, thats really nice reading actually. gives a good idea of how much
> time it can take to do things.
>
> Thank you!
>
> > On Tue, 2007-04-17 at 16:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> But I'm unable to find numbers in general how much people lose by
> >> stripping out the engine (200lbs?) exaust (50lbs?) and Gas tank (25lbs?)
> >>
> >> Does anyone have numbers from their own conversions they could post?
> >
> > Try
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/EV/log/log.htm
> >
> > It's a '66 Mustang--he kept track of the weights of most of the stuff he
> > took out of it. It's buried in the log, not summarized in a table or
> > anything.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That black thing is a ferite bead that aids in the supression of noice that is
induced in the conductors by stray cyclic and
transient magnetic fields. I would say that if you have the right tools to
make the connector and if you get the pinnout the
same, then you should be OK as long as you do not make it way too long. I'd
wait though for Otmar or someone who knows the
workings of the Comm bus to comment on what the maximum distance should be. If
I were to guess it would be the shorter the
better. The cable must carry precisley timed events that could be delayed or
distorted by too long of a run.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of John O'Connor
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:48 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Zilla question
>
>
> I'm actually wiring up my conversion and I have a question for those
> familiar with Zilla setups. The cat 5 cable for connecting the Zilla
> to the the hairball that came from Otmar is a bit on the short side.
>
> Can I replace it with a custom cut length of cat 5 installing that
> "black thing" from the original cable on the new cable.
>
> What is that black thing anyway?
>
> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
It may be best to pick up a cat 5 cable extension and just plug it into the
existing cable.
The black thing is either inductive core or ferrite beads that slip over the
cable increase the impedance of the cable, much like an RF choke, and
primarily at high frequencies. Its dissipate high-frequency parasitic
signals and undesirable frequencies on DC circuits.
You can not just slip on any inductive cores on a this cable. There is 77
types of ferrite core permeability for the correct frequency.
Also if the length of this cable is very long, than you may need to add more
cores or the same value. You may have to install a shield over the
extension and grounded it at one end only.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:48 PM
Subject: Zilla question
> I'm actually wiring up my conversion and I have a question for those
> familiar with Zilla setups. The cat 5 cable for connecting the Zilla
> to the the hairball that came from Otmar is a bit on the short side.
>
> Can I replace it with a custom cut length of cat 5 installing that
> "black thing" from the original cable on the new cable.
>
> What is that black thing anyway?
>
> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gentlemen,
Thanks for the information, ideas, sources and education about the fuse
(and over the last couple of years on a host of other topics). I will
be sure to let EVeryone Know how things shape up in the next couple of
weeks.
Bruce
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Open Source" design of EVs is taking place right now, and not in some
unspecified future. It remains to be seen whether these designs will be
profitable or will not. Discussion of the efficacy of Free Software / Open
Source software is off topic for the EVDL but I invite anyone who would like
to argue about it to email me off list : I'm a non-guru who's been using
GNU/Linux for 10 years.
On 4/17/07, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 08:10 AM 4/17/2007, peekay wrote:
>he didn't want to give up his hold easily either ! today linux does
>all that other systems do .. and many more things that other systems
>just cannot do
Sorry, I disagree here. As long as you don't count Useability or
Documentation, it's pretty good.
From the average end-user perspective who is NOT a Unix Guru - it's
still close to sucks.
>the problem of right things NOT happening because of the
>way businesses work is still not solved .. so i see open source
>designing of ev's happening rather soon !
The only way to bring prices down is mass-production. That just
won't happen with an "Open Source" EV. Anyone who can afford the $$$
to build a factory is likely to also hire engineers and designers to
get it "right", not just "pretty good".
Then it comes back to return on investment - and how much risk
somebody wants to take with millions of $.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Canadian EV uses boxes made by Ipex (Scepter brand [no, not
"Sceptre"]). I found some in my local electrical supply store. Very
nicely made. Hard to find online, though. Described as "NEMA", but
don't know the level. Mine has a rubber gasket under the screwed-down
lid and looks to be fairly watertight. Until I start drilling holes
in it for cables and such, of course.
Here's the manufacturer's website, after it Got Small:
<http://tinyurl.com/2evpw4>
Mine is labeled 6x6x4, but is actually closer to 7x7x5 on the outside
(5 inches high when its got its little feet installed). They also make
a 12x12x4, which might work for you. Try searching for "scepter
jb12x12x4" or "sceptre jb12124" or similar.
Electrol has them listed on their web site:
<http://www.electrolsupply.com/masterparts6.html>
I suppose I can take some pictures if you want more info.
HTH,
Doug
On Apr 16, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Mark Dutko wrote:
I'm looking for a ABS or Polyester 10X11X4 approx high box for my
contactors and relays. Something with a screw top not mote than 5"H.
Does anyone know of a good source? I've looked at Hoffman, Budd,
Hammond. Any others? Other suggestions? I don't want to use metal of
aluminum.
Thanks,
Mark
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
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