EV Digest 6683
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Silly Tweety!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Lithium batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Beefing-up the DCDC on CivicWithACord!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What is up with the rash of illegal message formats recently?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: darn press!
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lithium batteries- now economies of scale
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Drove Scion E-Box
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Silly Tweety!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) lowest GMvolt age
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Suspension and weight distribution
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) "A123 propably out of buisness in a few years"
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) new S-10e?
by "S. Love" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
by Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Silly Tweety!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) LED headlight bulbs?
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: new S-10e?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Ken, what do you mean by slow like a golf cart? I take offense to that
:-) Check out this You Tube of our shop golf cart running 120 volts on a
bone stock 36 volt, 3.5 HP motor with a 900 amp controller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSRAdt4LhFs
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Silly Tweety!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Silly Tweety!
On 16 Apr 2007 at 17:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It just keeps getting better and better ...
Except for your poor batteries. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
Yes, everything is a compromise. There is a price for everything.
It’s just a matter of deciding what is important to put your efforts
into. We are certainly aware of the toll “racing” takes on the
batteries, etc. But, our goal is to demonstrate that EV’s are not golf
carts and they do in fact have respectable performance. So, we are
paying for that message – and grinning while doing it! Even so, we are
not completely insane. We set the Zilla to 350 battery amps max. And
it rarely sees all of that.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release Date: 4/19/2007
5:32 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> > Case in point: The Firefly battery. Carbon Nano
> > foam has made it possible to create a lot more energy density than
> > previously thought possible in lead acid.
>
> No; this is just marketing hype at work. The basic equation is
>
> <-charge
> PbO2 + Pb + 2H2SO4 = 2PbSO4 + 2H2O
> discharge->
>
> From this, and the weight of the reactants, the theoretical capacity
> limit is 83.472 amphours per kilogram.
>
> A plain old 6v golf cart battery weighs about 63 lbs, or 21
> lbs = 9.525 kg per cell. It delivers about 240 amphours at
> the 20-hour rate. That's 240ah/9.525kg = 25.2 amphours per
> kilogram. That's 30% of the theoretical maximum.
Perhaps this is what you are referring to as marketing hype, but a
'problem' that the Firefly technology is attempting to address is that
much of the weight in a plain old golf cart battery is *not* active
material. That is, the structure of the plates is heavy lead alloy, but
is not actually part of the active materials. Likewise the paste on the
plates might be a certain thickness for practical manufacturing reasons,
but only some of it may be in contact with the electrolyte and therefore
active. Anything that decreases the weight of the *inactive* components
will increase the energy density of the overall battery, so the
marketing claim can be true even if the active materials have no
different energy density than any other lead-acid battery.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I hope that your 1.3A draw is due to your controller
> also running,
> not the DC/DC alone.
You are correct. A good point, though I omitted it.
BTW, your post was quite helpful!
Your website says it is a 144V
> conversion, so
> 1.3A is about 190 Watts. For having everything in
> your car running,
> that seems OK, though it should never draw so much
> when only the
> DC/DC is on and the battery is full.
>
> It is easy to see how much goes in and out of the
> battery -
> disconnect it and re-connect via a shunt so you can
> easily measure
> the current (this could be a permanent setup if you
> wish to keep
> an eye on the aux battery as well).
> To get an idea on how the aux battery survives days
> when you are
> not using the car, you can measure the standby
> current when the
> car is off, all doors closed and so on, then measure
> the amps
> drawn from the battery. If good, it should be in the
> range of
> 10 mA but I have heard many controllers keep drawing
> around
> 100mA and my controller tops even that, so I need to
> disconnect the
> aux battery or charge it when I don't drive a week.
> You can now also calculate if your driving will be
> able to top off
> the aux battery or not, for example:
> 100 mA x 24h x 7d = 17Ah drawn when car is off for a
> week.
> 10A x 1/2h x 5d = 25 Ah capability to add while
> driving 15 min
> to work when your car uses 20A and the DC/DC can
> supply 30A.
> In this case it is necessary to choose a rather high
> DC/DC
> output voltage (like 14.2V) to make sure the aux
> battery is
> charging at max current because there is little
> surplus, if
> you have a week of only 3 working days or a
> vacation, the
> aux battery does down.
> When your car is on much longer, the DC/DC voltage
> should be
> lower to avoid cooking your battery in summer.
>
> I currently use a 4A DC/DC in the form of a Toshiba
> laptop brick
> to keep my battery topped up, it is connected to the
> 312V pack
> but it can also run from 144V as it has a 90-260V AC
> input.
> When the aux battery is full, the brick will only
> consume 1W
> when unloaded - less than 10mA from your pack, so
> you can leave
> it permanently on.
> BTW, this brick is 15V 4A which I run through a
> diode to drop
> the voltage to 14V.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
>
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Bob Bath
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:35 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Beefing-up the DCDC on CivicWithACord!
>
> As you heard, I had some hassles with the car over
> winter. Turns out that
> they were traced to a bad aux.
> battery.
> Well, looking at the HV pack current draw, I've
> determined that:
> I draw 1.3A from it when the aux. batt. has a full
> charge. Ie, if the aux
> batt. has a full charge, it will that much via the
> DCDC to recharge the aux.
> batt.
> After a night of not using the car, I can start it
> in the morning and it
> will have a 2.6A-3.2A pull on the HV pack via the
> DCDC converter.
> This difference can be attributed to two things: the
> car stereo (which is
> precious little) and the E-meter.
> Likely it was this constant drain that did in the
> aux. battery. Hence a
> post by listers who talk about leaving their DCDC on
> constantly, IIRC.
>
> My DCDC is currently a 350W model by DCP. It has
> the advantage of offering
> a bipolar supply which is required by the e-meter.
> There is a new startup called Belktronix that makes
> a 600W DCDC. If I move
> up to the higher wattage Belktronix model, it would
> top off the aux. battery
> much faster as I drive. My car would also slurp
> into the aux. battery less
> deeply on those winter occasions when I'm using the
> rear defroster, blower,
> stereo, headlights, and wipers (yes, it does
> actually happen).
> I'll grant that I could add a circuit which would
> keep the car on until the
> aux. battery is topped off.
> (I currently am leaving the car on once in awhile
> when I get home to reduce
> the toll it takes on the aux.
> battery, but what a pain)!
>
> In addition, Belktronix manufactures a dedicated
> bipolar supply for the
> e-meter. Currently, turning the DCDC off also
> disables several records the
> e-meter
> keeps: (deepest Ahs cycled, total cycles, etc.)
> which is kind of a bummer.
> I've paid for those features, and currently don't
> get to use them!
>
> So I ordered the new DCDC, and have been told it
> shipped today. The
> Belktronix supply for the e-meter consumes only 7W,
> and hopefully will leave
> the aux.
> battery in a higher state of charge than it
> currently is, although it may
> only be slurping 7W from the aux.
> battery right now...
>
> Eventually I'll put the DCP DCDC up for sale on
> E-bay.
>
> In the meantime, I'm-a- grinnin' & driving every
> day!
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well
> as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter> Is the list miss-marking these, or are we having a terminal case
Peter> of folks not following the rules?
I think something probably changed about the way the list sends out the bits
of message it does send. I use a somewhat atypical mail reader (VM inside
XEmacs). I started noticing these warnings a couple days ago. Not paying
much attention, I simply assumed that the system deleted the entire message
content (scrubbed an HTML only message, for example), leaving just the
warning, and accordingly I deleted those messages.
In looking a bit closer, I'm pretty sure the listproc software is hosing up
multipart/alternative messages. Such messages come with a content-type of
multipart/alternative that tells my mail reader it will find multiple parts
and guarantees (and this is critical) that each alternative is logically
equivalent. That way I can deliver a text/plain an text/html version.
Simple mail readers like mine will display the text/plain version. More
sophisticated readers like Firefox can (and probably will) choose to display
the text/html version. In any case, the content-type header tells the mail
reader to only display one of the alternatives.
In the message I'm looking at, the alternative with the useful message
content has a content-type of text/plain with a charset of ISO-8859-1 (that
is, ISO Latin-1 or Western European). The other alternative (the one with
the wanring) has a content-type of text/plain with a charset of US-ASCII.
VM chooses to display that. Unfortunately, that alternative is clearly
*not* logically equivalent to the first alternative, but VM displays it
because the charset is US-ASCII (I'm in the U-S-of-A, after all.)
So, long story short, check with SJSU to see if they "upgraded" listproc in
the past few days. The list is clearly distributing invalid mail messages.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, Dave hit it on the head. Lots of people think that starter motors
are kickass because of the torque and cheap availability, but they're
not designed for continuous duty and cannot be modified in any practical
way that I know of. They'll start overheating in only tens of seconds
of starting load duty. With a lesser load, I assume they're pretty
inefficient.
I think some of the Battlebots guys used starter motors, they may need
the torque and a round doesn't last all that long. Even still, I got
the impression that mainly only newbie builders used them. There motors
used in electric wheelchairs are pretty beefy and fairly efficient. The
motors used in electric scooters I assume are also good for the job, but
these are expensive.
Do you have an estimate on how many HP your job needs?
Danny
Dave Wilker wrote:
I wouldn't use a starter motor. They are not made to run for more than
a few seconds at a time, and will burn up. If you can find an old
automotive generator, that would make a better power plant, in my
opinion.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stand Culp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
I am looking for both an automotive starter motor, and a deep cycle 12V
battery to power the mower.
I checked out prices for the motor thru wrecking yards in the
Portland Ore
area and found a good deal, and was pondering where I can get an
inexpensive
deep cycle bat that'd be adequate to the job and thinking someone on the
list (and in the Portland/Vancouver area) might have BOTH that I could
scrounge. Sooooooo, if you are converting and have a 12V starter
motor and
or a deep cycle that isn't up to par for a vehicle pack but might
work for
my conversion project, please let me know.
I was gonna go to the wrecking yard today, but after this LIST
brainstorm,
I'll go ahead and take care of some other chores today and check the
email
for any hits, and if nuthin turns up on here can hit the auto salvage
tomorrow or monday of next week.
Does anyone have any genius ideas on a small charger unit for a
single deep
cycle bat?
TIA
I picked up my donor '92 S-10 (ext cab) a few days ago, and would use
the
starter motor from it, but I"m gonna be using the truck for landscaping
projects around here during the spring while I research whose kit or
components to go with on the ElecTruck#1
Also I'll be looking for a few tools before the ET1 project gets going:
small hoist, MIG or suchlike welder (my oxy-acet rig hasn't been used
in a
decade and at the least I'm gonna need new hoses and the regulators gone
thru - and they're probably not worth the effort.)
Thanks again, Stand
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug,
How many miles do you typically get out of your battery brushers? I've just
been using old T-shirts and they're typically toast after one round of battery
brushing which would mean I'm only getting 500 miles out of my existing
brushers :-O
On the other hand I tend to rotate my armature every day and it doesn't seem to
affect its reliability any. Doesn't even take any extra time. The batteries
don't like it too much though. Every time I get done rotating the armature
their voltage seems to be quite a bit lower than before. Do you think I'm not
brushing the batteries enough?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:31 pm
Subject: Re: darn press!
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Quoting Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > "His upkeep consists of a $20 battery brusher every 80,000
> miles, new
> > batteries every three years and water for the battery cases
> every season."
> >
> > Battery brusher? =)
>
> Battery brushers are used to apply the water to the battery cases,
> which you
> need to do every season.
>
> You should make it part of your regular seasonal maintenance. I
> make sure to
> use my battery brusher on my battery cases every time I rotate my
> motor'sarmature.
>
> :)
>
> >
> > mike golub wrote:
> > > http://newsminer.com/2007/04/19/6555/
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, I tried... but they still mess up the facts...
> > >
> > > enjoy!
> > >
> > > Michael Golub
> > > Fairbanks, AK
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
looonnnnggg not very OT answer, defensible OT only because it relates to the car companies and which might survive in a
BEV business....
Lee Hart wrote:
john fisher wrote:
Well when someone can figure out why a toaster oven costs the same as
a hard drive, please explain it to all of us.
I did! :-)
List the materials. Weigh them. Add up the cost of the materials. You'll
find that since both are mass produced in very large quantities, both
essentially cost what their raw materials dictate. R&D is negligible
because it's averaged over millions of units. Labor is negligible
because they are made by automation (or at slave wages).
well they certainly DO cost the same, and are made in similar places at similar quantities, and similar weights, so it
sounds like you are right. But the organizational difficulty of making hard drives and toasters is totally different.
If your thesis is correct, a toaster manufacturer should be able to learn to make a hard drive and a hard drive OEM a
toaster. Because of the human organization needed, one is possible and the other unthinkable. Conglomerates making both
don't count.
However what I think it might mean is that there is a market culture, and companies tend to react within that culture,
rather than reacting according to the culture of other markets. It would be irrational from the CEO's POV to make a
toaster oven *much* better than the competition, and to change the styling every year, let alone cut the cost. Indeed
its hard to say what *better* is in such a business. In the hard drive business "better" is clearly defined, and
competition is vicious, product cycles in months, really high-end engineering is central to the market success of your
product. In short you really must succeed at a stratospheric level of technical difficulty, and continually cut costs at
the same time. Not many HD manufacturers are still standing, but oh boy what a product they make!
So if you think I have a point, its extremely unlikely that a car company will start behaving like a computer company,
or a toaster company like a hard drive company, simply because their human culture is different. Change the culture
radically, I am thinking of WWII, and sewing machine companies turn out machine guns, and entire ships get built in a week.
Trying to get back OT, the car companies with the best R&D and market culture will adapt to the changes of BEVs better
than those others. I don't think the engineering differences in the powertrain are nearly as important as the turn to
light weight and composites, because the composites affect the assembly line more. But maybe this is just saying the
mammals will survive the dinosaurs.
If you were offered jobs at Exide and A123 which would you take?
A123 would be more fun, ...
Exide would be boring, ...
exactly and boring rust-belt companies are not much valued in today's world. If going to work for Bethlehem Steel or
Zenith was a dumb idea for an engineer 20 years ago, then surely its more likely that bright kids will go for the sexy
companies today, when there is no expectation of company loyalty or safe pensions.
FWIW anyway
JF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a opportunity to take the AC Propulsion E-Box for a test ride
today, happened to be parked in my neighborhood. What a fun car to
drive! With three adults and going up a hill it really took off! Wish
I could buy one it would be a great work vehicle.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the link, I didn't know about them. Maybe I am getting old,
but i think that is a reseller not a distributer.
In my personal opinion, just calling a company a distributer is not
enough, You actually have to buy in quantity and "distribute" at a price
that is more than cost and less than I can get them single quantity from
the company itself. (We could use a few more distributers in this country)
--- End Message ---
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* This post contains a forbidden message format *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
I loaded all my batteries in the back of my pick-up conversion
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/791 ) and I see that the rear end is
riding very low. Looking back at my project notebook, the rear end
has dropped about 4 inches and the front is about 1 inch higher. Am I
likely to be able to "fix" this situation with a trip to a suspension
shop?
John
Hopefully making an inaugural EV trip this weekend
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have wondered about them for another reason. Being more of a
facilitator than an actual manufacturer, they are chargeing quite a
primium for their "value added" or are being forced to buy at too high
of a cost. I already have quotes for similar cells at about 1/2 the
price for around june. We shall see if it is hype or if it is real.
The point is that there can be a backlash from buisnesses buying their
cells if they take too long to lower their prices. If the wait until or
can't lower their prices until after someone else comes out with cells
at a better value, and purchasers switch, there is a good chance those
customers will be very hard to win back.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know about the nice and shiny brand new S-10e that passed me on 101n
(headed towards San Francisco) this afternoon?
I caught up to it, and it has "electric" badges on the side and tailgate,
but sped away at a much faster velocity than I wanted to go...
beautifully silent.
I am still amazed at the acceleration!, From consistent freeway speeds it
took off as if I wasn't even moving. Absolutely incredible! much better
performance than any of the original S-10ev's I have driven. I wonder how
the range holds up..
Does anyone know if these are being produced again?
either from GM, as OEM or professionally done, like the Solectra or U.S.
Electricar?
My wife thinks it may be a one-off for something to do with earthday this
weekend,
I would love more information on one..
Thanks
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know that David who built the 75mpg hybrid
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternative-Energy/1979-07-01/An-Amazing-75-MPG-Hybrid-Electic-Car.aspx
used a airplane starter because it is made to run constantly without
burning up and it is also a generator.
Dave Wilker wrote:
I wouldn't use a starter motor. They are not made to run for more than
a few seconds at a time, and will burn up. If you can find an old
automotive generator, that would make a better power plant, in my
opinion.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stand Culp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
I am looking for both an automotive starter motor, and a deep cycle 12V
battery to power the mower.
I checked out prices for the motor thru wrecking yards in the
Portland Ore
area and found a good deal, and was pondering where I can get an
inexpensive
deep cycle bat that'd be adequate to the job and thinking someone on the
list (and in the Portland/Vancouver area) might have BOTH that I could
scrounge. Sooooooo, if you are converting and have a 12V starter
motor and
or a deep cycle that isn't up to par for a vehicle pack but might
work for
my conversion project, please let me know.
I was gonna go to the wrecking yard today, but after this LIST
brainstorm,
I'll go ahead and take care of some other chores today and check the
email
for any hits, and if nuthin turns up on here can hit the auto salvage
tomorrow or monday of next week.
Does anyone have any genius ideas on a small charger unit for a
single deep
cycle bat?
TIA
I picked up my donor '92 S-10 (ext cab) a few days ago, and would use
the
starter motor from it, but I"m gonna be using the truck for landscaping
projects around here during the spring while I research whose kit or
components to go with on the ElecTruck#1
Also I'll be looking for a few tools before the ET1 project gets going:
small hoist, MIG or suchlike welder (my oxy-acet rig hasn't been used
in a
decade and at the least I'm gonna need new hoses and the regulators gone
thru - and they're probably not worth the effort.)
Thanks again, Stand
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Roderick wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSRAdt4LhFs
Surprising how well it hooks up! Maybe put a controller bypass on it?
That would be funny to take it out on the interstate and be passing
people at ~80 with it.
Borrow that yellow 13" motor and put 348 volts of something to it...
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On 19 Apr 2007 at 3:23, Lee Hart wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > An A123 cell delivers about 3v at 2ah = 6wh. Even at $2 each, that's 33
> > cents per watthour. A plain old flooded lead-acid delivers 6v at 150ah =
> > 900wh for $75, or 8 cents per watthour, or 4 times the price.
>
> To clarify... the A123 cells is 4 times more expensive per watthour than the
> lead-acid battery.
The A123 is 3 times >more< expensive, or 4 times >as< expensive.
Isn't English an invigorating language? ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Exactly! Those are made to run continuously, and can be had relatively
cheaply.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
I know that David who built the 75mpg hybrid
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternative-Energy/1979-07-01/An-Amazing-75-MPG-Hybrid-Electic-Car.aspx
used a airplane starter because it is made to run constantly without
burning up and it is also a generator.
Dave Wilker wrote:
I wouldn't use a starter motor. They are not made to run for more than a
few seconds at a time, and will burn up. If you can find an old
automotive generator, that would make a better power plant, in my
opinion.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stand Culp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
I am looking for both an automotive starter motor, and a deep cycle 12V
battery to power the mower.
I checked out prices for the motor thru wrecking yards in the Portland
Ore
area and found a good deal, and was pondering where I can get an
inexpensive
deep cycle bat that'd be adequate to the job and thinking someone on the
list (and in the Portland/Vancouver area) might have BOTH that I could
scrounge. Sooooooo, if you are converting and have a 12V starter motor
and
or a deep cycle that isn't up to par for a vehicle pack but might work
for
my conversion project, please let me know.
I was gonna go to the wrecking yard today, but after this LIST
brainstorm,
I'll go ahead and take care of some other chores today and check the
email
for any hits, and if nuthin turns up on here can hit the auto salvage
tomorrow or monday of next week.
Does anyone have any genius ideas on a small charger unit for a single
deep
cycle bat?
TIA
I picked up my donor '92 S-10 (ext cab) a few days ago, and would use
the
starter motor from it, but I"m gonna be using the truck for landscaping
projects around here during the spring while I research whose kit or
components to go with on the ElecTruck#1
Also I'll be looking for a few tools before the ET1 project gets going:
small hoist, MIG or suchlike welder (my oxy-acet rig hasn't been used in
a
decade and at the least I'm gonna need new hoses and the regulators gone
thru - and they're probably not worth the effort.)
Thanks again, Stand
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Does anyone know if these are being produced again?
Check this out:
http://www.evbones.com/fleet1.jpg
http://www.evbones.com/
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