EV Digest 6687
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV in Forbidden Planet?
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 'largish' brushless motors available
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: "largish" brushless motors available
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Suspension and weight distribution
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: CLUTCH BUTTON SWITCH
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
by Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Excellent GM Volt video, and other stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: "A123 propably out of buisness in a few years"
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: A123 connections
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Charging across USA Was Re: Bronco II EV prospects
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: "A123 propably out of buisness in a few years"
by Marcin Ciosek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) A123Systems, probably out of Biz in a few years
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: PNW Converting to Electric Lawn Mower
by "Stand Culp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A123 connections
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: [EV] RE: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: CLUTCH BUTTON SWITCH ON S-10?? Re: new S-10e?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: An Electravan Shame story. Happy ending!
by "Mark K. Mellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: A123Systems, probably out of Biz in a few years
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) BYU Electric Talk
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DC-DC convertor
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You know, I had to throw in some real-world pessimism on how the EV
would pay out over the next 10 yrs.
One, a lot of cars don't make it to 10 yrs. Might get in an accident
and get it all smashed up, or it gets stolen or stripped. OK right now
no thief would knowingly try to steal an EV today but we're talking
widespread use. There's some economic benefit to having a more
disposable car.
Now knowing how freakin greedy car thieves are, they'll cause $3000
damage to rip out a stereo that pawns for $100. Every few weeks some
dumbass gets in the news for electrocuting himself trying to take down
power lines for their recycling value. With widespread EV use, I do see
a problem. If nickel is $23/lb, that's way more than copper or aluminum
and the recycling value should be pretty darn high. You don't need to
find a buyer for scrap metal like you would for a complete battery.
The danger of stripping seems pretty apparent to me. I mean nobody
steals your engine if you leave your car on the curb in a bad
neighborhood. It takes too long and putting it in a new car is an
extensive job too so there aren't that many buyers. If there's a motor
which is worth $500 on the scrap market and takes 10 min to remove
between disabling the security system, pop the hood, unbolt the batt
terminals and unbolt the motor, that thing could be gone in a flash.
Batts too. This is more profitable than stealing airbags and stereos.
I mean not getting it stripped over 10 yrs of parking at the airport,
Wal-Mart, apartment, etc might be a trick.
Don't tell me that if you had an EV and drooled at the idea of doubling
your range with more NiMH packs, and see NiMH powered EVs unattended all
over the place every day that this evil thought wouldn't at least cross
your mind. "Oooh I know that model, just think, 7 min with a socket set
and I could be gone with the entire pack. No wait, I'd just cut the
holddowns and be gone in 5 min." I assume nobody here would actually do
it, but there'd be somebody who would be capable of it.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Then of course, you get the nickel back when you recycle the battery
at its end of life. A dead nicad or nimh battery is pretty valuable
just for its scrap metal!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I recently revisited this 1950s Sci Fi. Is the utility driven at high
>> speed by Robbie supposed to be an EV? This movie has some interesting
>> concepts for those who have not seen it before. David
>>
>>
>> Yeah! Great movie! I'm guessing that the battery issue had been solved
>>
> in their depiction of the future? Great little EV's running loose there
> in the movie. The Krell Power House was big enough to handle ALL the EV's
> on their planet!
>
> Just give Robbie a A123 cell and ask him for several hundred more!!
> Bob
Sure, EVs work great in SF. Back here on Earth, you can see the cable that
tows the vehicle across the stage, however. <vbg> You gotta love that
corny old SF stuff.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
There are already induction motors that use the iron core itself as
their rotor "windings" to save money. The rotor is just a solid slug of
iron.
I thought the ones with solid iron rotors were "Reluctance motors" not
"Inductance motors"
There are several names. If the solid iron core is "hard", i.e.
magnetizable, then it is a hysteresis motor. This is a cheap form of
synchronous motor that doesn't have any expensive magnets.
If it's a soft iron core that won't magnetize, then you get an
inefficient induction motor. It has higher slip than usual, but more
starting torque and lower starting current. A good example is the reel
motor on the Teac tape deck I mentioned; it runs at essentially stall
most of the time, and is just generating torque to keep the tape wound
up on the take-up reel. But during fast forward or rewind, it runs at
near synchronous speed. It's a nice simple system with no belts or gears
-- but not not very efficient.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
joe wrote:
I still doubt that diecast will work in a rotor - I'll have to see it to
believe it, Lee!
I *guarantee* it will work!
If you want proof, take apart any old induction motor you have lying
around. Replace the rotor with a solid slug of iron. It will still run
-- just at lower speed and efficiency.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not familiar with the spring geometry or type on your truck, but
increasing the spring rate is definitely the right way to go. Lift blocks
are primary for increasing the gap between the body and the ground, for
four-wheeling and the like. Lift bags will be more expensive than added
leaf segments, and extra leaves will never leak air or require a compressor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:23 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
John wrote:
> riding very low. Looking back at my project notebook, the rear end
> has dropped about 4 inches and the front is about 1 inch higher. Am I
> likely to be able to "fix" this situation with a trip to a suspension
> shop?
One option is a very common product known as an "ADD-A-LEAF". You can
get 2"-3" from inserting this stiff leaf in the bottom of your leaf
spring pack.
http://www.gorancho.com/flash/docs/2005_addleaf_levload.pdf
With some shopping around, you can find them at a fair price(example
product/price(different app))
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250105113747
Check it out:
http://www.performancepartswholesale.com/part_name/add_a_leaf_kit~parts.html
What about a lift block kit if you still need more height after that
added leaf? AutoZone for example sells these kits cheap on their
shelves.
(example)
http://www.jackit.com/blocks/blocks.htm
What is the current distance between your axle and the rubber bump
stop on your frame?
Is your axle currently under or over your leaf springs?
With some more searching, I'm sure aftermarket lift springs (4" - 6+"
over stock) could be found at not too much expense.
Do you have one of these shops in your city?
http://www.4wheelparts.com/
See if they could hook you up with some lift springs for the back.
One more option might even be so called "lift shackles".
Here is an add on product for a 1500lb increase in load carrying capacity:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HEL%2D1515&N=
700+4294925130+400349+4294843208+115&autoview=sku
Also, your trip to the suspension shop will always work too as they
can either mod or rebuild your leaf pack for proper load/ride height.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Apr 2007 at 6:39, robert mat wrote:
> What does (or did) this [clutch upper limit] button do?
Check the factory wiring diagram.
It could be an input to the original ICE's ECU (Engine Control Unit) to tell
it that you've depressed the clutch pedal and thus some different emission
control strategy is called for, such as cutting off all fuel to the
injectors.
As a couple others point out, it could also be a cruise control release or
starter enabling switch.
In an EV conversion you can probably use if for anything you want, but check
the wiring diagram first to be sure.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only reference i made to this article was the Starter motor/
Generator he used from airplanes etc. that is a fact that those are made
to be run constantly. So if people feel the need to explore more about
this then go threw the archives.
____________________________________________________________________
Danny Miller wrote:
Actually since he says the generator produces 29.5V, I think he's
saying he's running 2 sets of 2 batts in parallel. A 24V system.
Possible to go fast? In theory... but not in practice. The current
required is impractical.
I don't see anywhere where the article says he claims 75 mpg based on
partial battery use. Perhaps they misquoted him, but it's saying 75
mpg indefinitely on gasoline the way I read it. Nor does it say he
claims the generator is supposed to spend longer charging while
stopped than driving.
Wanna contact the author? Check the date. That guy's article is from
1979! (I find it amusing that they refer to a gal of gas as "four
quarts of the expensive liquid"... 1979...)
I think there's plenty enough hard reasons to discredit the
capabilities he claims. There's hard data here on what an EV can do,
he's done nothing that would improve upon it other than the claim of
regenerative braking and this 24V or 48V system can't possibly live up
to what people are doing now. I'm not going to bother asking how he
could be saying it if it isn't true. Heck, Tilley has far more
"documentation" on his accomplishments in the Tilley EV.
Danny
childreypa wrote:
I found that article too because this is kinda close to what I plan to
do sometime in the future. I agree with you Danny, this would never
work. It would take about a 20 hp engine to produce enough power to move
a typical car at highway speeds. But I think he might be misunderstood
in the article.
I can think
of and have the article still be somewhat credible. I'd like to ask that
guy some questions. Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Excellent GM Volt video
> On 18 Apr 2007 at 11:35, Timothy Balcer wrote:
>
> > And an ACTUAL just around the corner is the issue of using chromium in
> > an electrode with lithium chemistry. This is being worked on and once
> > that gets figured out we'll have 500mile+ range out of a lithium pack,
> > as well as bulk charging in minutes.
>
> I hate to sound like a cynic (except that I am ;-), but in 40 years of
> following the EV "movement" (such as it is), I've heard this song many,
many
> times before. The Perfect Battery is >always< just around the corner. I
> guess that somebody keeps moving the corner, 'cause we never seem to turn
> it.
>
> As Lee Hart says, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Quit dreaming.
Get
> out there and build your EV. NOW. Don't wait for the infamous
Unobtainium
> batteries. They may show up next year or they may never show up, but in
the
> meantime you'll be driving electric.
Hi EVerybody;
> Another Old Fart heard from, here!Still have some old Pop. Sci. Mags
from YEARS ago. The Better Battery is here, able to charge from any wall
outlet in ten minutes, Yada Yada Yada.
But we have GOOD shit we only fantisised about 30 years ago; Zilla
controllers, Warp motors, PFC WhatEVer chargers, to mention the biggies AND
The EV List! THAT'S the Big one here as nobody has to build an EV on their
own, reinventing as they go. Now they can Pop the question " How do I" and
we all dive in and TRY to help out.....As that ad says, in the
end;"Priceless" Monster charge or something like that? Not much of a TV
watcher, I DO remember the Vonage"People do Stupid things" Cutting down the
tree across his car,one! And that great, silly theme song.Would put it as
backround to the White Zoombie blowing away a Musty-Stang or sone other gas
car!
Jetta is ALMOST ready to run, FINALLY! Got the batteries in the trunk
area, last nite. Boy! I need those on order coil springs ordered from Coil
Spring Specialities!! Looks like a Low Rider! No WONDER! With 600 plus lbs
back there!Gunna mount up the line switch, a Scram, fuze in the trunk, to
conform to NEDRA's reg, and, believe it or not, CT's too!A simple bell crank
to pop the fuse out when yanked from outside. Rapture controller is mounted
up now and I think I can stuff my PFC in too? The underhood area is getting
pretty crowded!I guess I COULD put stuff in the trunk, too. But I like ALL
the works in the underhood area!Ran my power cable ALREADY from my custom
mounted male plug under the gas cap filler, where my " Boycott OPEC, Use
Electric Fuel"Sticker is now. I'll have a BIG Anderson plug under the hood
for FAST charging, from a dunp pack or the famous "Little Blue Box"
across-the-line half wave rectom-fire setup. When I plug THAT in, my
comoputer won't go on line, due to the fearsome power factor thing!PFC's are
GREAT!
EVer the eternal optimist I went to the DMV to get my plates, and
register the car. When the car HAS a CT title, you're cool! Sign it over,
PAY up front and get my old Rabbit plates back. You have to turn in a valid
plate if you cancel your insurance, It was still good to DEC. They are used
to being on an electric, anyhow!They are unique as they are the last of the
Sticker plates, meaning the registration sticker is actually ON the plate,
easy to steal, in inner city 'hoods. After YEARS of stolen or clipped plates
CT joined the rest of the world and ya stick your current registration
sticker inside on the windshield, harder to steal!Oh I'll go on thursday
afternoon, not so many people? WRONG! place looked like a refugee camp!"Hey!
You're the Electric Car guy!'Hard to hide at my size<g>!A lively
diss-cussion among the huddled masses at DMV. Lottsa surprisingly good
inputs! People HAVE Scene WKtEC! The American Sheeple are waking up! Well,
325 a gal gas does wonders!
So, get out there with your conversion! People are showing the
interest!It's an easier sell, nowadaze!
> Right on David!
Any day now! Gotta cobble a footpeddle to plunger thing to be able to
control the controller!Todaze's project!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert mat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: "A123 propably out of buisness in a few years"
> Here's my two cents: Like Ralph Nader alluded to in
> the movie, "Who Killed The Electric Car", the
> corporations will never let us have a good battery.
> The big corporations had been circling the lithium
> startups like vultures right from the start. We HAVE
> TO work with lead acid.
> Hi All;
Bob's right on, here! Be interesting how Tesla will handle this? THEY
have the bux? Maybe? to pull this off?They could make their OWN batteries,
IF the patent thing doesn't strangle them, too. Then, IF they pull it off
,General Murders will follow Baldwin Locomotive Works and The J.G. Brill
Co.into history! they, Brill, built trolley cars for years!
My two tokens worth
Bob
>
> --- Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > This got me worried about A123Systems' future when I
> > read it:
> >
> >
> http://www.a123systems.com/html/news/articles/010307_cobasys.html
> >
> > Since we all know how well Cobasys are using their
> > NiMH patents for
> > EVs. Corporate takeover and (virtual) patent
> > shelving seems more likely.
> >
> > I sincerely hope my concerns prove to be unfounded..
> >
> > -Ian
> >
> > On 21/04/2007, at 10:30 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> > > I have wondered about them for another reason.
> > Being more of a
> > > facilitator than an actual manufacturer, they are
> > chargeing quite a
> > > primium for their "value added" or are being
> > forced to buy at too high
> > > of a cost. I already have quotes for similar cells
> > at about 1/2 the
> > > price for around june. We shall see if it is hype
> > or if it is real.
> > >
> > > The point is that there can be a backlash from
> > buisnesses buying their
> > > cells if they take too long to lower their prices.
> > If the wait
> > > until or
> > > can't lower their prices until after someone else
> > comes out with
> > > cells
> > > at a better value, and purchasers switch, there is
> > a good chance those
> > > customers will be very hard to win back.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Photo link: Using the world's first licensed
> Revived Battery electric pickup truck
> for everyday errandshttp://my-ev-diary.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"A123 cells need cooling"
I think the thermal management is more to equalize temperature to
minimize imbalances and to warm them for cold weather chargeing to make
them last longer. Maybe for hill climbing?
At an internal resistance of 10milliohm I think at even 70A continuous
we are only talking about 49W.
If we have a pack with 24 in parallel to get the Ah we need, we are only
gonna see 17A per cell on 400A draws (my battery limit set point)
This is 2.89Watts of heat per cell,70watts/layer and 280W/12V-55ah
module. And that is if we draw 400amps continuous.
If I did that for 30 seconds even with my 4000lb ev, I would be speeding.
Am I crazy to think an internal air stirring fan and and external
heatsink would be sufficient for a 12V55ah module?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Bronco II EV prospects
> We recently made a seven day trip around Arizona towing a travel
> trailer. I had the same idea, lots of RV parks spread around, some 60
> miles apart, some further, some closer. Lots of electrical outlets.
> Now for the coast to coast electric vehicle / RV park recharging rally.
> Bring your best electric vehicle, your charger, your laptop (wireless
> internet at the campground?), your tent, etc....
>
> Alan
> Hi EVerybody;
Sounds like a fun trip" Pilgrimage to Portland Races" run? A time thing
for some of us, but for us retired folks it would be fun!You could bum power
from welding shops, garages, larger bizes that have 240 volt lines, too.
Pluggin' along
Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Miller, John
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:59 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Bronco II EV prospects
>
> Wouldn't it be great to drive cross country in an EV stopping at RV
> parks every night and recharging for the next day's drive!
>
> John
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
don't worry about Tesla and FePO4 patents. They source company has everything
under control.
The thing about introducing EV cars is to build them in amount that can not be
see by big ugly companies as a threat.
Keep up.
Marcin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI-
I've done this on several vehicles.
Give me a call 206 255 8459
FT.
> [Original Message]
> From: Darin - at - metrompg.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 4/21/2007 6:50:47 AM
> Subject: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
>
> Hi all -
>
> Thinking ahead a few steps (okay, many steps) for the old ForkenSwift,
> I'm wondering how possible / feasible it is to construct a bypass around
> the golf cart Curtis.
>
> Some 48v "nitrous" would be nice. Being able to just out-accelerate a
> 12 year old kid on a bicycle is OK. But I want to raise the stakes and
> see if the car could beat a 14 year old. :-D
>
> We've got half a dozen contactors left over from the forklift control
> panel, plus the pot box also has a high pedal micro switch which isn't
> being used for anything at the moment (it was originally for the
> forklift's EV-1 controller bypass circuit).
>
> What issues do we need to be aware of so we don't wreck the Cursit? Is
> it as easy as disconnecting pack -ve to the controller and connecting it
> directly to the motor "F1" as in our schematic here:
>
> http://forkenswift.com/offsite/schematic-forkenswift-current.gif
>
> Any & all feedback welcome.
>
> thanks.
> Darin
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quote
"A123 Systems is privately held, not publicly traded. Corporate
takeovers only happen with publicly traded companies."
Yes, but... what if they were just offered a $$Bazzillion Dollars for
theier privately held company. Some one once said every one has their
Price...
It would be too bad.
Perhaps Mr. Ovashinski (sp) should go over and talk with them, and
relay what happened to HIM and his company and batteries. Perhaps they
would have enough back-bone to resist a $$ Bazzzillion Dollars.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Guess what? The Dewalt pack uses springs but the springs that come in
contact with the cells are used for the BMS in the pack. A spring
comes in contact with the negative end of each cell. That probably
doesn't quite cut it though for what you were mentioning.
The cells themselves are tab welded in series together.
The A123 cells are flat top and bottom. But the casing comes up over
the top and bottom of each cell so if you were to stack them there
would be a bit of dead space between the cells unless you used a
washer type thing between the cells. It wouldn't have to be thick. We
are only talking a millimeter or so.
On some NiMH bicycle battery packs, I've seen the cells placed end to
end like a flashlight. Then the cells, (usually 5 stacked cells) are
shrink wrapped together and that group of five is tab welded to the
next group of five.
You could probably try that.
I know the R/C folks are doing all kinds of stuff with the A123
batteries but they don't need the amount of cells we need.
I did find a charger that will charge 10 A123 cells at a time. It's
called the Xtrema and is designed to charge the A123s. You can set
the charger to charge from 1 to 10 cells. It's $189.00 and has RS232
and I believe USB 2.0 ports so you can monitor the charge on your PC.
Chip
On Apr 21, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: April 21, 2007 12:48:08 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: A123 connections
On Thu, April 19, 2007 2:31 pm, Osmo S. wrote:
These cells are usually connected by soldering or welding, but how
about just using the good old spring technique, common in many
smaller
battery-powered devices (flashlights etc)? Or why not just press
the cell
ends against each other? That way you could easily remove single bad
cells from the pack.
Osmo
The only reasons I can think of are cost, corrosion and extra
resistance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 01:35:54PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> HI-
> I've done this on several vehicles.
> Give me a call 206 255 8459
why dont you post it to the list?I am doing almost the same conversion as
Darin and would like to know.
thanks.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://ev.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
robert mat writes:
>
> I have a GM Sierra S-15. There is a button switch on
> the clutch pedal, which you can see only if you look
> up, into the dashboard area. What does (or did) this
> button do?
Robert,
My Geo Prizm has a similar switch that prevents the starter
from running unless the clutch is pressed. I use it for the
"Start input" on the Zilla controller.
Ralph
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On Apr 17, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Tinkers Workshop tried to move/sell an Electravan that they knew
little
about.
Someone has promised to pickup the Electravan & the motor & tranny
that goes
with it & put it in running order. If it doesn't happen I'll let
EVeryone
know but I think this person knows the value of this vehicle. Lets
wish him
good luck. Lawrence Rhodes...
Hi, this is my first post on the EV list, though I've been lurking
for a while now. I am the person who picked up the Tinker's Workshop
Electravan 750. My son Luke and I loaded it onto the towing dolly at
about noon today and we are on our way home to suburban LA with it.
We also bought the transmission and GE motor that came out of the
vehicle.
We will post some photos of time T0 of our electric vehicle timeline
when we get home.
BTW, it has a Mare Island Naval Shipyard property tag riveted to the
drivers side door post. I was stationed at Mare Island several times
in my naval career, so that is something special.
Thanks to the many folks who have posted to the list over the last
year or so for helping to make this journey seem do-able, and to
Lawrence Rhodes for bringing this particular vehicle to my attention,
and finally,
Thanks for all your good wishes,
...Mark
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Michael writes:
Worst case scenario, I could see turning off the power to the controller, so
> that it's not even turned on during the bypass operation. This could
> be done with another relay that has normally closed contacts, and when
> he bypass contactor is energized, that relay could also be energized,
> which would turn off the controller.
One potential snag there is if the controller has a "high pedal lockout"
function (I think that's what it's called), which prevents the
controller from operating if it's powered up when the pedal is not in
the low position.
If that were the case (I believe my golf cart controller has that
feature) you'd have to fully release the pedal before switching the
controller power back on. If you just slowly backed off the pedal,
releasing the high pedal switch and opening the bypass circuit, you'd
now have no juice at all flowing to the motor even though the go pedal
remains nearly fully depressed.
That scenario would need some kind of workaround.
Darin
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From: Steven Lough
> Yes, but... what if they were just offered a $$Bazzillion Dollars
> for their privately held company. Some one once said everyone has
> their Price...
I used to work for Eastman Kodak. When George Eastman was running the company,
he watched for any new product or patent to be announced. Then he packed two
suitcases and went for a visit. One suitcase had his clothes and personal
effects, and the other was full of money. He kept upping the offer until the
person said "Yes".
Failing that, he went to the person's wife. Or father. Or boss. Or to the bank
with the mortgage on his house. One way or another, he always bought him out.
Eventually, the Justice Department prosecuted him for restraint of trade.
Eastman's argument was, "What's the problem? I'm happy. He's happy. His idea is
being used in production, so the public's happy. And so, Eastman got away with
it for long enough to monopolize the photographic industry.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
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Perry Carter of the BYU Electric Team will be speaking at Totems, 538 S.
Redwood, Salt Lake City, Utah on Wednesday May 2, 2007, 7 p.m..
The BYU Electric team has built and raced an electric formula car, and a super
capacitor drag race EV1. Rumor has it they might be working on a land speed car.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Beware if your pack voltage falls between 96-120V. It's a voltage black
hole that few DC/DCs cover (too high for 96V units, too low for 120V or
144V units). I'm still searching for a suitable DC/DC for a 114V nominal
pack...
IOTA DLS-45 (Rated 108-132VAC input) barely keeps up WITHOUT lights or
heater fan running.
Zivan NG1-DC (Rated 108-168V battery pack input, 600W output) is OK as
long as I don't run the heater fan or drive farther than 15 miles with the
lights on.
When choosing a "non-EV" designed or AC/DC converter, keep the following
in mind:
1) Some AC/DC units don't work on DC. Some have input diodes that may
overheat when used with a DC input.
2) DC input = 1.4 * AC input. A unit with 90-265VAC input should operate
well from 126-371VDC.
3) Make sure the unit doesn't turn OFF if its output current limit is
exceeded. Constant current, foldback limiting, straight line limiting, and
hiccup are all OK. At least the converter will try to turn back on once
the overload is gone.
4) Over voltage protection - shouldn't be much of a concern (anyone,
anyone?)
The IOTA would be great with a pack that doesn't sag below 150V, but it
works OK at 120V. As input voltage drops, available output current also
goes down. IOTAs can be found on eBay for <$100.
For a car I'd use at least a 300W DC/DC. 130W (10A) for headlights on hi
and 200W+ (15A) for a heater fan on high. Running the fan at a lower
setting leaves plenty of juice for the radio, blower fan, vacuum pump, etc.
-Adrian
.
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John, Michael and All,
I hope you didn't put all 24 batteries in the bed, and if you did, it's
just temporary! I only have six floodies under the hood of the truck, and
it's still not enough weight to keep the front tires from breaking loose
under hard decelerating. Also, I would recommend putting the remaining
batteries under the bed for better handling, which you might already be
planning. As far as air shocks, I wouldn't recommend them either for a
permanent solution, as there mounts aren't designed to carry the weight,
and it changes the suspension geometry. Also, air shocks have a harsh ride
and when they blow out, which they will eventually do, it will be at the
worst possible time! Either add a leaf (or two), or change out the coils.
And speaking of changing out the coils, our RX-7 was converted by someone
else with too many floodies in the rear and air shocks. When one of the
shocks blew out last year I replaced them with stock shocks and changed the
coil springs. I had an old '69 Bronco and the front coils were only
slightly larger inside, so they fit over the RX-7 coil mounts nicely. I
simply cut them to the same length as the stock springs after removing
them, and there larger thickness maintained the same ride height as the air
shocks! Now I can put on wider tires and not worry about a fender eating
them when the air shock blows. And Michael, you know how to tell the
difference between a redneck and a progressive redneck(tm) like myself? A
progressive redneck drives an eelectric pickup truck!
Hope this helps,
Suck Amps...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I'm looking at adding "Air Shocks" to my EV. You can adjust the air pressure
<snip>
>John O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
>
>I loaded all my batteries in the back of my pick-up conversion
>(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/791 ) and I see that the rear end is
>riding very low. Looking back at my project notebook, the rear end
>has dropped about 4 inches and the front is about 1 inch higher. Am I
>likely to be able to "fix" this situation with a trip to a suspension
>shop?
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At 08:49 AM 21/04/07 -0400, Darin wrote:
Hi all -
Thinking ahead a few steps (okay, many steps) for the old ForkenSwift, I'm
wondering how possible / feasible it is to construct a bypass around the
golf cart Curtis.
G'day Darin, All
Quote from the Curtis 1204x/1205x/1209/1221 user manual (available as
download from the Curtis web site):
=======================
A bypass contactor can be used with controllers that have the optional
bypass contactor optput feature. The bypass option is available on 12V and
24-36V controllers. (NOTE: A bypass contactor should not be used with
controllers that do not have this feature, as the controller could be
damaged when the system comes out of bypass mode.)
The bypass contactor must be able to carry and to interrupt the maximum
motor current. A coil suppression diode should not be used on this
contactor. Refer the controller specifications in Appendix C to determine
the contact current requirement of the bypass contactor. The maximum
allowed coil current for this contactor is 1 amp.
=======================
OK, Transalation:
Curtis are concerned about inductive spikes from the wiring of the bypass
contactors damaging the controller, so they don't make controllers with a
bypass control higher than 36V.
They also want to be sure that when the bypass contactor switches off, it
does so with a "snap" action (that's the "no diode").
When the contactor lets go you need to be sure that the motor current is
less than the maximum motor current that the controller can handle, or it
will blow the controller diodes.
They also want to be sure that the contactor rating can handle the current
and voltage, and let you know that the coil driver will burn up above 1 amp.
So, my take on it is that you can bypass the M- to B-, but keep the leads
as short as practical. It may be best to take the B- and M- to the
contactor, then short leads to the controller. You can turn the contactor
on at any time, provided that you are not exceeding the contact ratings,
and you will loose any current limiting. Once the contactor is on, battery
amps are equal to motor amps. When you turn the contactor off, whatever
motor amps are flowing will be re-routed through the freewheeling diodes of
the controller, so the motor amps must be less than those diodes can handle
or they will blow.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
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