EV Digest 6690
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Xtrema Charger/Wattmeter was Re: A123 connections
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Xtrema Charger/Wattmeter was Re: A123 connections
by Marcin Ciosek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zilla troubleshooting
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Weight of Bed S-10
by "Stand Culp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Prius and Camry and EVs
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Suspension and weight distribution
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: CLUTCH BUTTON SWITCH ON S-10??
by "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) (no subject)
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EV GRIN was Re: Zilla troubleshooting
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) All this talk about controller bypass
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) first drive
by Bruce Williford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: first drive
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Lee's BMS?
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Prius and Camry and EVs (was: Re: Excellent GM Volt video)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Prius and Camry and EVs (was: Re: Excellent GM Volt video)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Prius and Camry and EVs
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Lee's BMS?
by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 500,000 Votes by Earth Day
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland. My wire is 600V, double shielded 4/0. If I use a 2"
conduit for the two cables could I also put one lead for the PFC 30
charger to the other pack end in there as well since it would only be
used during charging and the other cable would not be passing
current? I know that reduces my volume ratio but since the alternate
usage would it be fine? It would be a smaller size of course..
Mark
On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:34 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Mark,
A cable is de-rated by 20 percent if you use three cables per
conduit at 60
percent fill. It is best to keep the conduit or wireway at about
60 percent
fill.
In my ev at one time, I ran two 4/0 cable feeders under the car
with Carlon
PVC conduit. You can form offsets and bends with a heat lamp. You
can even
bend a 90 degrees if you use those plumbers test plugs at each end,
which
will keep the conduit from flattening out.
In my next mod, I ran a wireway through the center of the EV which
is at the
bottom of the center console, that is hinge and removable covers.
I run all my power cables, control cables, and low voltage cables
in this
compartment with no problems. The control and low voltage wires
has to be
insulated for the same voltage of the power cables and is double
shield.
The maximum number of 4/0 wires, is one in a 1-1/2 inch or three in
a 2 inch
conduit. The welding type conductor has a jacket that that does
not slip
very easy in a conduit, so two in a 2 inch conduit works fine, if
you do not
have more than four 90 degree bends.
These is two types of welding wire insulation, one is a thicker
type that
is design to be pull across a floor and is about 1 inch in
diameter. The
other is a little thinner at about 3/4 inch diameter for chassis or
conduit
work. Make sure you get the type of conductor that is rated for your
voltage. Normally there is the low voltage cable that is use for a
welder
leader, and a medium 300 and 600 volt rating type.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: De-rating cable when enclosed
I'm using 4/0 cable on my conversion with a pack of 8 orbitals in the
front of the car and 10 in the back, Zilla 1K. I want to run my
cables in the tunnel under the car and I was wondering what is the
best way to protect the cable? I have seen some put their cable in
the metal/plastic flex (Sabrina Saab)and was wondering if the cable
would ever get warm and be de-rated due to the tight enclosure. Is
the welding cable resistant enough to just wrap with plastic loom or
should I use some enclosed line? The metal flex conduit weight adds
up so I was thinking something else may be adequate.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In making all my bracket attachments this weekend I needed to drill a
couple 3/8" holes in my steel bumper which is quite thin (way under
1/8" thick. Well I have drilled many holes in this car but for some
reason the steel in the bumper would not budge, I used new titanium
and cobalt bits and they did nothing. It ended up that I had to
remove the bumper and put it in the drill press and still it was a
pain and ended up all but starting a fire. What is this thing made of
Boron Steel? I almost got out the plasma cutter. It's not a Volvo...
M
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did find a charger that will charge 10 A123 cells at a time. It's
> called the Xtrema and is designed to charge the A123s. You can set
> the charger to charge from 1 to 10 cells. It's $189.00 and has RS232
> and I believe USB 2.0 ports so you can monitor the charge on your PC.
Interesting Chip! Thanks for the mention... Charge tech for LiFePO4,
getting into personal electrics territory:
http://www.tmenet.com/xtrema.htm
tks again
Lock
alive, and kicking, in Toronto
human-electric hybrid ped
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guess what? The Dewalt pack uses springs but the springs that come in
>
> contact with the cells are used for the BMS in the pack. A spring
> comes in contact with the negative end of each cell. That probably
> doesn't quite cut it though for what you were mentioning.
>
> The cells themselves are tab welded in series together.
>
> The A123 cells are flat top and bottom. But the casing comes up over
>
> the top and bottom of each cell so if you were to stack them there
> would be a bit of dead space between the cells unless you used a
> washer type thing between the cells. It wouldn't have to be thick. We
>
> are only talking a millimeter or so.
>
> On some NiMH bicycle battery packs, I've seen the cells placed end to
>
> end like a flashlight. Then the cells, (usually 5 stacked cells) are
>
> shrink wrapped together and that group of five is tab welded to the
> next group of five.
>
> You could probably try that.
>
> I know the R/C folks are doing all kinds of stuff with the A123
> batteries but they don't need the amount of cells we need.
>
> I did find a charger that will charge 10 A123 cells at a time. It's
> called the Xtrema and is designed to charge the A123s. You can set
> the charger to charge from 1 to 10 cells. It's $189.00 and has RS232
>
> and I believe USB 2.0 ports so you can monitor the charge on your PC.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: April 21, 2007 12:48:08 PM EDT
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: A123 connections
> >
> >
> > On Thu, April 19, 2007 2:31 pm, Osmo S. wrote:
> >> These cells are usually connected by soldering or welding, but how
> >> about just using the good old spring technique, common in many
> >> smaller
> >> battery-powered devices (flashlights etc)? Or why not just press
> >> the cell
> >> ends against each other? That way you could easily remove single
> bad
> >> cells from the pack.
> >> Osmo
> >
> > The only reasons I can think of are cost, corrosion and extra
> > resistance.
>
>
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the
boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, that will work. The de-rating is calculated for three power carrying
conductors.
One thing to add, is that you can come up in the rear with a conduit fitting
call a LB which is a 90 degree pull box with a removable cover. I use that
fitting by drilling a hole in the bottom of my pickup box and run a conduit
nipple into the battery charger compartment.
At the other end, I could make a long gentle bend that went up along the
fire wall or use another LB. Make sure water does not get in to it.
Do not block or put conduit duct putty to seal the ends. You want air flow
through these conduits.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
> Thanks Roland. My wire is 600V, double shielded 4/0. If I use a 2"
> conduit for the two cables could I also put one lead for the PFC 30
> charger to the other pack end in there as well since it would only be
> used during charging and the other cable would not be passing
> current? I know that reduces my volume ratio but since the alternate
> usage would it be fine? It would be a smaller size of course..
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:34 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Hello Mark,
> >
> > A cable is de-rated by 20 percent if you use three cables per
> > conduit at 60
> > percent fill. It is best to keep the conduit or wireway at about
> > 60 percent
> > fill.
> >
> > In my ev at one time, I ran two 4/0 cable feeders under the car
> > with Carlon
> > PVC conduit. You can form offsets and bends with a heat lamp. You
> > can even
> > bend a 90 degrees if you use those plumbers test plugs at each end,
> > which
> > will keep the conduit from flattening out.
> >
> > In my next mod, I ran a wireway through the center of the EV which
> > is at the
> > bottom of the center console, that is hinge and removable covers.
> >
> > I run all my power cables, control cables, and low voltage cables
> > in this
> > compartment with no problems. The control and low voltage wires
> > has to be
> > insulated for the same voltage of the power cables and is double
> > shield.
> >
> > The maximum number of 4/0 wires, is one in a 1-1/2 inch or three in
> > a 2 inch
> > conduit. The welding type conductor has a jacket that that does
> > not slip
> > very easy in a conduit, so two in a 2 inch conduit works fine, if
> > you do not
> > have more than four 90 degree bends.
> >
> > These is two types of welding wire insulation, one is a thicker
> > type that
> > is design to be pull across a floor and is about 1 inch in
> > diameter. The
> > other is a little thinner at about 3/4 inch diameter for chassis or
> > conduit
> > work. Make sure you get the type of conductor that is rated for your
> > voltage. Normally there is the low voltage cable that is use for a
> > welder
> > leader, and a medium 300 and 600 volt rating type.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:40 AM
> > Subject: De-rating cable when enclosed
> >
> >
> >> I'm using 4/0 cable on my conversion with a pack of 8 orbitals in the
> >> front of the car and 10 in the back, Zilla 1K. I want to run my
> >> cables in the tunnel under the car and I was wondering what is the
> >> best way to protect the cable? I have seen some put their cable in
> >> the metal/plastic flex (Sabrina Saab)and was wondering if the cable
> >> would ever get warm and be de-rated due to the tight enclosure. Is
> >> the welding cable resistant enough to just wrap with plastic loom or
> >> should I use some enclosed line? The metal flex conduit weight adds
> >> up so I was thinking something else may be adequate.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
About charger I recommend Pulsar charger:
http://www.elprog.com.pl/english/
which is more flexible - works with all types of batteries and can do charging
and discharging, tests etc.
The price is very reasonable, you just need to look for dealer in your
country.
Marcin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perfect- Thanks for the help. I have a convenient tunnel where the
exhaust used to be.
Mark
On Apr 22, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Roland Wiench wrote:
Yes, that will work. The de-rating is calculated for three power
carrying
conductors.
One thing to add, is that you can come up in the rear with a
conduit fitting
call a LB which is a 90 degree pull box with a removable cover. I
use that
fitting by drilling a hole in the bottom of my pickup box and run a
conduit
nipple into the battery charger compartment.
At the other end, I could make a long gentle bend that went up
along the
fire wall or use another LB. Make sure water does not get in to it.
Do not block or put conduit duct putty to seal the ends. You want
air flow
through these conduits.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
Thanks Roland. My wire is 600V, double shielded 4/0. If I use a 2"
conduit for the two cables could I also put one lead for the PFC 30
charger to the other pack end in there as well since it would only be
used during charging and the other cable would not be passing
current? I know that reduces my volume ratio but since the alternate
usage would it be fine? It would be a smaller size of course..
Mark
On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:34 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Mark,
A cable is de-rated by 20 percent if you use three cables per
conduit at 60
percent fill. It is best to keep the conduit or wireway at about
60 percent
fill.
In my ev at one time, I ran two 4/0 cable feeders under the car
with Carlon
PVC conduit. You can form offsets and bends with a heat lamp. You
can even
bend a 90 degrees if you use those plumbers test plugs at each end,
which
will keep the conduit from flattening out.
In my next mod, I ran a wireway through the center of the EV which
is at the
bottom of the center console, that is hinge and removable covers.
I run all my power cables, control cables, and low voltage cables
in this
compartment with no problems. The control and low voltage wires
has to be
insulated for the same voltage of the power cables and is double
shield.
The maximum number of 4/0 wires, is one in a 1-1/2 inch or three in
a 2 inch
conduit. The welding type conductor has a jacket that that does
not slip
very easy in a conduit, so two in a 2 inch conduit works fine, if
you do not
have more than four 90 degree bends.
These is two types of welding wire insulation, one is a thicker
type that
is design to be pull across a floor and is about 1 inch in
diameter. The
other is a little thinner at about 3/4 inch diameter for chassis or
conduit
work. Make sure you get the type of conductor that is rated for
your
voltage. Normally there is the low voltage cable that is use for a
welder
leader, and a medium 300 and 600 volt rating type.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: De-rating cable when enclosed
I'm using 4/0 cable on my conversion with a pack of 8 orbitals
in the
front of the car and 10 in the back, Zilla 1K. I want to run my
cables in the tunnel under the car and I was wondering what is the
best way to protect the cable? I have seen some put their cable in
the metal/plastic flex (Sabrina Saab)and was wondering if the cable
would ever get warm and be de-rated due to the tight enclosure. Is
the welding cable resistant enough to just wrap with plastic
loom or
should I use some enclosed line? The metal flex conduit weight adds
up so I was thinking something else may be adequate.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had the same problems when I used an old matress bed
frame as angle iron. It took forever to drill.
I would think the bumper was heat treated.
I think the best way to get a hole in there would be
with the torch.
--- Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In making all my bracket attachments this weekend I
> needed to drill a
> couple 3/8" holes in my steel bumper which is quite
> thin (way under
> 1/8" thick. Well I have drilled many holes in this
> car but for some
> reason the steel in the bumper would not budge, I
> used new titanium
> and cobalt bits and they did nothing. It ended up
> that I had to
> remove the bumper and put it in the drill press and
> still it was a
> pain and ended up all but starting a fire. What is
> this thing made of
> Boron Steel? I almost got out the plasma cutter.
> It's not a Volvo...
>
> M
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a similar problem with mine at first. In the end
I felt dumb over the final fix. Get a test light, not
volt meter and check everything going in to the
hairball. I had originally hooked the crank wire from
my ignition switch to the hairball, but that turned
out to only be a sensing wire. If everything is hooked
up right and you put 12 volts to the "on" input then
tap 12 volts to the crank input the controller should
turn on.
Also, don't jump power to the contactor coil,
especially if the wire is still hooked to the
hairball. I did this and it blows out the contactor
drive circuit and I had to send the hairball back to
Otmar for a repair. This will also cause the same code
your getting.
Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC
AZ Alt fuel license plate "ZEROGAS"
Glendale, AZ
I have all my basic wiring completed but the truck
won't go.
My hairball is giving me the 1312 error code (waiting
for start).
This is after I have held the key in the start
position for about 15
seconds. Going to the palm terminal program it shows
that I also had
a 1231 code (propulsion pack open, no contactor drop,
and controller
is not responding)
I have checked the following
- The keyed 12 volts to the hairball line has 12 v
when key is on.
- The wire going into the start input of the hairball
is getting 12
volts when the key is in the start position.
- I read traction pack voltage measuring from the
battery side of the
contactor and battery - on the Zilla
- The hairball case is connected to the chassie ground
input and the
chassie ground
- The original cat 5 cable from Otmar is connected
between hairball
and zilla
However, the output from the hairball to the contactor
coil is not
getting 12 volts (which explains why the contactor
doesn't drop)
Any thoughts on where my problem might be or what else
I should check?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yo-theList,
Is anyone familiar with the weight specs breakdown on an extended cab
S-10 pickup (1992) ?
In the interest of shaving weight off during conversion (and seeing as
the mechanical stuff is more my forte) I'm planning on fabricating a
replacement for the steel box behind the cab. The bed is 6' long and
55" wide (interior measurements.)
TIA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess I am weird, I love the look of the prius,(and I am an old muscle
car guy) The back reminds me of the old CRX.(but the front reminds me
of the old shuttlecraft, closet trekky, go figure)
I took a look at a 2007 prius and was impressed with the well thought
out interior with the critical information at the base of the windshield
instead of forcing me to look away so long.
The only thing I think looks funny are the tiny wheels. It is hard to
get a good ride with small wheels but if you increase the weight with
larger wheels on a lighter vehicle, the ride will get worse.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Mark Dutko
> I needed to drill a couple 3/8" holes in my steel bumper...
> Well I have drilled many holes in this car but for some
> reason the steel in the bumper would not budge. I used new
> titanium and cobalt bits and they did nothing.
I use these Rodman multipurpose drill bits for the really tough jobs. They will
literally drill a hole in a hardened steel file!
http://www.rodmanandcoinc.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=1307321%7C1307323&PRID=1492961
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I only have six floodies under the hood of the truck, and
> it's still not enough weight to keep the front tires from
> breaking loose under hard decelerating.
This may be easier to resolve with brake rebalance than by moving the
weight around. I've had good success with inline brake proportioning
valves -- cheap and simple.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
#2. NO. On my S-10 pushing in the clutch does not disengage the cruise
control. Learned that one the hard way..... Only lost the fan
belt.........
Darin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: CLUTCH BUTTON SWITCH ON S-10??
There are two possibilities that come to mind, assuming this is/was an ICE
vehicle.
1. The switch prevents starting the ICE unless the clutch is depressed.
This is so you can't start the engine in gear and run into something. Kind
of like the neutral safety switch in an automatic.
2. The switch disengages the cruise control when the clutch is depressed.
On an EV, such a switch is sometimes used to drop out the main contactor
when the clutch is depressed to prevent over revving the motor when you
shift gears. With a series wound DC motor, it is easy to over rev it with no
load.
From: robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: CLUTCH BUTTON SWITCH ON S-10?? Re: new S-10e?
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
I have a GM Sierra S-15. There is a button switch on
the clutch pedal, which you can see only if you look
up, into the dashboard area. What does (or did) this
button do?
_________________________________________________________________
MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter to win today.
http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
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11:56 AM
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mark, Steve, Roland and Dave.
I rechecked my connections and had a successful inaugural spin up and
down the driveway.
I think the problem was with the precharge terminals of the hairball
(assuming they are the hariball connections that go to the the high
voltage connections on the contactor)
I disconnected them and when I reconnected I was able to get the
contactor to close.
I've still got a bunch of work to do before I can consider it a
actual working vehicle but it moved.
My wife took a video with our still photo digicam, I am looking into
putting it on youtube because some family and friends that have heard
me talking about this project may doubt it actually moved.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've done this at both 48 V and 96 V on light weight <
2000 lb cars.
My 2 cents is, don't try it with a pack voltage over
60 V. It you have a 120 V car, break the pack and put
it in parallel. Run the car at 60 V and use the
bypass. You will almost always be in bypass. If you
have a 4 speed trans, you will get 4 full power
speeds. Probably somewhere between 50 and 65 MPH in
4th gear if you use 60 V. At 48 V, you can get 40 -
45 MPH on a light car with bypass. Assuming cheap
fork lift motor. That's my experience at least.
Changing the timing on the brushes and your gear
ratios will have an effect. I am assuming a very
small and light car with battereis sufficient to
handle 500 + Amp drain. I think my 48 V car pulled
600 A on acceleration with the bypass.
Not the best solution, but inexpensive.
Same with contactor controllers. If you are driving
on the street, I wouldn't use one over 30 V with
resistor, 30 V no resistor, 60 V no resistor. Even 72
V scares me unless you are on an open track.
When I bypassed 96 V across my 9" ADC using Deka group
24 AGM batts ... well all I can say is that I was very
very scared and immediately made sure that would never
happen again.
Hope this helps.
Steve
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ooooooooooooweeeeee! Wired the Ghia up, triple checked everything,
clear ahead and behind, key on, depress throttle and off it went. With
no windshield, tail lights, insurance or registration I took it easy as
I cruised around the neighborhood a few times. No smoke, sparks or
stalls. Lots of neighbors in awe (maybe just bemused tolerance) as I
rolled past. Now I understand the Ev grin. Happy Earth day to all and
to all a good night.
Bruce
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm,
It may be very adviseable to get insurance before a next testdrive.
No matter how tempting - a mistake is easily made and a breakdown
of a critical part (like a brake) can cause a lot of damage, which
you would regret if you did not arrange the insurance....
Other that that - congratulations on your newly acquired grin!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Williford
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 7:41 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: first drive
Ooooooooooooweeeeee! Wired the Ghia up, triple checked everything, clear
ahead and behind, key on, depress throttle and off it went. With no
windshield, tail lights, insurance or registration I took it easy as I
cruised around the neighborhood a few times. No smoke, sparks or stalls.
Lots of neighbors in awe (maybe just bemused tolerance) as I rolled past.
Now I understand the Ev grin. Happy Earth day to all and to all a good
night.
Bruce
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
to us who haven´t followed this thread, I think it would really help
if there were a site that would describe what these different options
are all about, prices and the address where you can send you order.
I´m happy to make that site if you or someone else sends me the text
and maybe pictures.
Osmo
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti
22.4.2007 kello 21.08:
Ok so what about the other board and parts , I'm getting 2
relay boards and 3 controlle boards , I'd like to get the
controller boards with all the parts if there are enough people
willing to do that. On the out puts of the controlle board , do we
have a a,b c d ,,,, and a 1,2,3,4, that we combine like a1 a2 a3
and b1 b2 b3 ect so as to get controll of many relays . How may
a,b c d ,,, and 1,2,3 , do we get , . As you can see I haven't done
anything with the stamp so this will be a learning time from me ..
Steve Clunn
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--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 22, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Would you like it better if it looked like this?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoID/6070119.001/
pageview/photo/photo/1/page/1/lang/eng/country/jcf/toyota/spy-image-
next-gen-toyota-prius
Actually, I like the looks of the current-gen Prius just fine. I
didn't like it because of the distracting dashboard widgetry, poor
visibility, and the poor ride. I won't like it better until those
things are fixed.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Roger Stockton wrote:
Doug Weathers wrote:
How many Prius drivers are making a
statement and putting up with less car for more money because it
*looks* like a hybrid?
The first thing that is odd about this statement is that you appear to
be suggesting that the Camry is *cheaper* than the Prius, which is
certainly not the case around here.
I was not sufficiently clear, sorry about that.
The hybrid Camry hasn't had much time to build up a sales history,
whereas the Prius has been around for a number of years now. I don't
think we have enough data to say anything meaningful about the Camry.
I was comparing the Prius to a non-hybrid ordinary car. Would you
agree that the Prius is less car for more money than, say, a Subaru
Impreza hatchback (which is the ICE I'm currently driving)? That's the
comparison I was trying to make.
Also, looks aside, there are 2
other reasons that peoploe might choose the Prius over the Camry: cargo
space (the Prius is a hatchback, with a fair cargo capacity, however,
the Camry loses about half its trunk to the hybrid battery and also
loses the fold-down rear seats);
Agreed, with a minor correction: the hybrid Camry's rear seats *do*
fold down, but there's only a small passthrough between the trunk and
the cabin. You'd be able to carry half a dozen six (possibly eight)
foot 2/4s, or maybe some skis, but not much else.
The poor cargo capacity is probably the thing I like least about the
Camry. I love my Subaru hatchback.
and, fuel economy (it is reasonable to
assume that people who buy a hybrid do so because of the better fuel
economy/lower emissions, and the Prius outperforms the Camry in this
regard).
Agreed. Many other cars, also.
To restate: based on my single test drive and subsequent negative
opinion of the Prius, my thesis is that the Prius is less car for more
money than many conventional cars, and that therefore, the large number
of people who have purchased them may have done so to make a public
statement to the effect that good fuel economy is more important than
ride quality. IMO this would be a good thing, because it might mean
there's a market for EVs that don't compare well to conventional cars
based on range. If an EV is visually distinctive, perhaps the same
demographic will purchase it to make a similar statement.
Exercise for the reader: does the Sparrow/NMG support this thesis?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, please forgive the interruption. These cars are not EVs. They get
all their energy from gasoline. There are many better forums for discussing
them, including several Yahoo Groups. Please either discuss them on those
forums, or in private email.
If you want to talk about how to CONVERT a Prius or Camry hybrid to plug-in
operation, or true BEV, now that's an appropriate topic for the EVDL. Have
at it!
Thanks for your understanding.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would appear to be this, which I didn't see originally either:
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
On Apr 22, 2007, at 8:53 PM, Osmo S. wrote:
Hi Steve,
to us who haven´t followed this thread, I think it would really
help if there were a site that would describe what these different
options are all about, prices and the address where you can send
you order.
I´m happy to make that site if you or someone else sends me the
text and maybe pictures.
Osmo
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti
22.4.2007 kello 21.08:
Ok so what about the other board and parts , I'm getting 2
relay boards and 3 controlle boards , I'd like to get the
controller boards with all the parts if there are enough people
willing to do that. On the out puts of the controlle board , do
we have a a,b c d ,,,, and a 1,2,3,4, that we combine like a1 a2
a3 and b1 b2 b3 ect so as to get controll of many relays . How
may a,b c d ,,, and 1,2,3 , do we get , . As you can see I haven't
done anything with the stamp so this will be a learning time from
me ..
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used the link Joesph posted for the Volt Vote Poll
http://www.gmsurveys2.com/se.ashx?s=7C7FD94F76D8CE27
and it worked fine for me.
I hope the poll is still active, and still tabulating
votes (I hope GM did not pull the plug on what they
clearly do not want to make).
If so, the Chevy Volt Survey result page after voting
listed below, state the vote count did not meet Joesph's
goal, but the YES to no ratio is so high, it can not be
ignored ... even by GM.
-[As of 4/23/07 0230 PST]
Would you like to see GM build the Chevrolet Volt?:
Response 20% 40% 60% 80% 100%
Frequency Count
Yes 99.5 451320
No 0.5 2256
Valid Responses 453576
If GM builds the Chevrolet Volt, would you consider buying one?:
Response 20% 40% 60% 80% 100%
Frequency Count
Yes 99.4 449858
No 0.6 2685
Valid Responses 452543
[...]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
> From: Mark Dutko
> > I needed to drill a couple 3/8" holes in my steel bumper...
> > Well I have drilled many holes in this car but for some
> > reason the steel in the bumper would not budge. I used new
> > titanium and cobalt bits and they did nothing.
I Know THAT feeling! I have burned up seemingly dozens of Crapsman,
and Harbor Fright "Drills"Just TRYING to cut through simple angle steel
shapes!All these are from Cheepo sets. Avoid those at Truly Valueless
hardware store,Wal*Fart, and the like! Go for the 5 bx a piece USA made
stuff! Grit an' bear it! It will make ya happier to actually be able to
drill a holea quarter or five sisteenth size in less than a morning, time
wise! One set SO bad I killed a few drills TRYING to drill a few holes in
the Jettas's SHEETMETAL! You think I was drilling holes in a Panzer
tank!Grumble. I guess (Duh!) ya get what you pay for!?Small drills are like
toothpicks and toilet paper? Use once an' throw away!
> > I use these Rodman multipurpose drill bits for the really tough jobs.
They will literally drill a hole in a hardened steel file!
> I'll chuck, I mean check it out!
>
http://www.rodmanandcoinc.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=1307321%7C1307323&PRID=1492961
>
> --
> "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
> doing it." -- Chinese proverb
> --12 Chinese drills later<g>!!
Seeya
Bob
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
> I had the same problems when I used an old matress bed
> frame as angle iron. It took forever to drill.
> BINGO!That's the stuff I use for my battery frames and support stuff.
Hell! Whynot? It's free at the dump EVery weak! Bedframes are like wire
hangers? They reproduce in dark corners, closets and cellars(Easy Coast
thing)??People throw them away, just pick them up at the Dump.Mess up a
rack, just throw in the scrap pile! No guilts!See other rant, I mean post.
> I would think the bumper was heat treated.
>
> I think the best way to get a hole in there would be
> with the torch?
> Yeah! ? Fora quarter inch hole? Like swatting flies with a pile
driver<g>!Or using nuclear weapons.
Working in the RR shop, and trying to drill a few holes in the shiny
Stainless Steel carbody?!Same deal, shreeking burning bits!Trains should be
pretty crashworthy?!
>
Seeya, my two bits worth!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
> Perfect- Thanks for the help. I have a convenient tunnel where the
> exhaust used to be.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Yes, that will work. The de-rating is calculated for three power
> > carrying
> > conductors.
> >
> > One thing to add, is that you can come up in the rear with a
> > conduit fitting
> > call a LB which is a 90 degree pull box with a removable cover. I
> > use that
> > fitting by drilling a hole in the bottom of my pickup box and run a
> > conduit
> > nipple into the battery charger compartment.
> >
> > At the other end, I could make a long gentle bend that went up
> > along the
> > fire wall or use another LB. Make sure water does not get in to it.
> >
> > Do not block or put conduit duct putty to seal the ends. You want
> > air flow
> > through these conduits.
> > Hi EVerybody;
I have just run my cables along the inside of the tunnel down the
center of the car, peotected from being the lowest part of things. At West
Marine or other Marine places they sell nylon cable support loop hanger type
brackets a 5/8 size hole will hold 2# cable, (try, see other posts<g>)drill
and short #10 self tapping mettel screws, run the cables together, well
they don't HAVE to. I'm a few inches apart. They won't have drainage issues,
like conduit. And if they run hot? You have OTHER issues to address!
I HAD clunky metal conduit in my first Sentra I got rid of as it was
full of water and crap, and was mounted so it "Ran Aground" first, in a
clearence issue, in it's first life!You want to make SURE yur cables are
protected!!!! From the good willed lunk at the tire place when he jacks your
car, too! LIFTS not steals!
My two cables worth --an' +
Bob
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: De-rating cable when enclosed
> >
> >
> >> Thanks Roland. My wire is 600V, double shielded 4/0. If I use a 2"
> >> conduit for the two cables could I also put one lead for the PFC 30
> >> charger to the other pack end in there as well since it would only be
> >> used during charging and the other cable would not be passing
> >> current? I know that reduces my volume ratio but since the alternate
> >> usage would it be fine? It would be a smaller size of course..
> >> That's Locomotive traction motor lead size!!! You WON'T have heating
issues! For sure.Well, maybe pulling coal trains with a 120 volt
system<g>!Lokies run 600-700 volts on them!But you can never have TOO much
cable, to a point? Handling that stuff must be a bear?Wrestling with TM
leads in the RR shop was a PITA!
IN training
Bob
--- End Message ---
