EV Digest 6692
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Sep-ex motor, was: Re: wrapping up the regen discussion
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: DC-DC converter
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Weight of Bed S-10
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) So did someone on the list buy the 93 Eagle EV's on E-Bay this afternoon?
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) UNSUBSCRIBE
by "Bruce Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Killacycle motor damage findings
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) My battery charger made up of 9 small battery chargers
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Man I miss my emeter.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Yaris Bumper Steel Strength?
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV in Forbidden Planet?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Issues involved in a controller bypass? (ForkenSwift)
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Man I miss my emeter.
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: DC-DC converter
by Rodney A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Going Over The Limit
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: My battery charger made up of 9 small battery chargers
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) KillaCycle Adjustable Brush Timing
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Electric Motor on Ebay
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: KillaCycle Adjustable Brush Timing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: My battery charger made up of 9 small battery chargers
by "Richard Krog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: KillaCycle Adjustable Brush Timing
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: DC-DC converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Man I miss my emeter.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Michael, thanks for posting that.
I think it goes without saying that a mechanical safety disconnect
should be part of any bypass system (if it's not already part of a
non-bypassed system).
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.rodmanandcoinc.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=1307321%7C1307323&PRID=1492961
torich1 wrote:
Where can these Rodman drills be bouther besides going to their trade
shows????
I discovered them at a tool show, and so haven't had to look for them
anywhere else. Can you contact them via their website and ask? It's hard
to imagine they only sell at trade shows.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 18, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Field control alone is only good for about a 4:1 speed range. If
you wind a motor for 1500 rpm at full field, you'd only get about
6000 rpm at 1/4 field. Is that fast enough for you?
The rpm range is fine. For the most part the useful rpm range with an
ICE isn't greater. (actually, 1500 rpm to 6000 rpm useful range with
a 800 rpm idle is generic description of a non-sport passenger car
with a small 4 cylinder engine)
The other problem is that torque is proportional to field current;
at 1/4 field you only have 1/4 the torque. You can make up for this
to some extent with higher armature current, but that causes other
problems (lower efficiency, more brush arcing).
A field controlled motor like this is basically a constant-
horsepower drive. If it's a 10hp motor, you can get that 10hp over
the entire speed range, 1500-6000 rpm. This works if that's all the
HP you need.
Please let me know if I understand this correctly...
To use a shunt motor I would need to use a larger motor for the same
effective power. If a 20 HP series motor is large enough I may need a
25 HP sep-ex one for similar performance (although with different
power bands)?
The sep-ex motor tries to act as a constant power source even while
the field strength is changed. But as the field is weakened the
armature current goes up (until the rpm goes up) so since the
armature voltage is constant the HP increases. Like a series motor
you can only ramp up the current so high and/or long before heating
becomes a problem. What size motor would be suitable for around 400
amps over a range of field strengths? I'm guessing that would give an
average power level similar to 500 amp peak series controller like a
Curtis.
IIt seems to me that way to drive a field controlled sep-ex EV is to
release the clutch without touching the throttle. Then you start
pushing the throttle progressively to accelerate. Releasing the
throttle has the same unusual feeling. If it was just dropped
suddenly from high speed the result is *aggressive* regen braking. Of
course if you want to coast you can drop the throttle as you release
the clutch. My initial plan for the Datsun 411 was an ADC 9 inch
motor with a used Curtis 1221b I have on hand (and a water cooled
heat sink - possible future controller upgrades :-)
[snip]
Well, here are a couple thoughts.
I have two Westinghouse motor-generators, one marked 7.5hp and one
15hp, though they are identical. Both consist of a 240/480vac 60hz
3-phase induction motor directly coupled to a 240vdc DC motor/
generator that has both series and shunt fields. Nominal speed is
3500 rpm. They were used for emergency power at an industrial
plant. When AC was available, the induction motor ran, and the DC
machine was used as a generator with field control to charge a
240vdc bank of batteries. When AC power was lost, the DC machine
was run as a motor, and the AC machine was used as an induction
generator to supply 240/480vac 3-phase power.
Contact me off-list if you'd like to buy one of these to
experiment. I'd separate the DC motor/generator, and use it as your
shunt traction motor. It's specifically designed for high voltage
DC motor and generator operation, and has interpoles.
Good offer, but I don't think a 15 HP motor would be large enough. I
was thinking that even an 8 in ADC might not be "thermally
compatible" with running out most of my range at freeway speeds in a
EV that will likely weigh around 2700 lb.
Second, you can have an existing series motor rewound with a shunt
field. I'd suggest an old forklift motor, as they seem to have more
room for field windings. I'd use a 4-pole motor, and replace 2 of
the pole windings with your shunt field; that way, you can run it
as a series motor, or a shunt generator for regen.
What about additional windings (compensation windings) required for a
motor to handle such widely different armature and field strengths? I
thought this was a stumbling block for higher voltage sep-ex motors
(EV voltage sep-ex motors.)
Paul
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 23, 2007, at 11:28 AM, Adrian DeLeon wrote:
It barely keeps the 12V battery charged. The lack of current is due
to the low input voltage, not the 45A output limit. With 100V
input, the DLS-45 won't deliver 45A. It's very obvious at night
when I put my foot down on the pedal - lights dim, fans slow down,
etc. As soon as my foot comes up, the lights get brighter.
Eventually the Zilla will toss a "SLI low voltage warning" at me...
The IOTA is rated down to 108VAC (151VDC), so it's running in
"brownout" mode with my 114V pack. The Zivan NG1-DC is rated to
108VDC, but it does the same thing. I can watch my 12V system go
from 14V to 12V as my pack voltags drops from 120V to 100V while
accelerating. If I don't drive during the day (or if it rains for a
week) I have to manually charge the 12V battery every other day.
Thank you for this information. I will likely be using an Iota as a
DC>DC since the Todd converters are no longer available.
Does the Iota just drop out until the voltage rises or is it just an
output reduction? If an output reduction have you come up with an
idea about how much the output is reduced at 100v?
Perhaps I'll need a pair of 55 amp units...
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
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The price went too high for me, and I have no more
room for another car. But, I am curious as to if
anyone on the list bought one of them. I'm
particularily interested in any update on the one with
solar assist. If you don't mind sharing (bragging),
let me know.
Thanks,
Steve
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--- Begin Message ---
UNSUBSCRIBE Bruce Williams
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Sorry I haven't been around much lately, been busier
than a two peckered goat in a field of nannies 8^o
Anyway I got a motor in from Bill today and was
pleasantly pleased to see that all 8 springs were
intact 8^) Although Bill and crew did manage to
completely fry the 10 mill Nomex gaurds, the springs
are there 8^) and is why we see smoke (burning Nomex)
and not plasma on the video. I'll order in some
really thick card stock Nomex that'll be tougher to
burn through.
I did find that the armature rubbed against the pole
shoes though. I'm really surprised being this was the
new motor we just ordered and the pole shoes were
never removed. Makes me wonder if the shaft is
flexing just a tad from the torque? I saw this on the
Siamese8 after the Woodburn flashover and not quite
sure what to think of it just yet. What ever the
reason the airgap is just a little too tight on this
one.
I also noticed that this one arced on a "new" holder
compared to the other three I've seen that arced just
on the one (what I call the taditional holder I've
seen.
I got it in late today so just had time to open it up
so I've still got to wash it all up for a better look,
just thought I'd throw up a small report on what I
found. All and all I'm pretty happy with what I see,
and I got to glean some new data to chew on.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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I have now all but given up on my old battery charger
- BC-20. The thing is a beast - barely better than a
variac. Maybe worse. It seems that minor imbalance
(differences in my battereis) are a big issue for it.
And, it is killing my battey pack. One battery
already got toasted, so I pulled that battery and the
charger out. Maybe this is pretty much a big issue
for any battery charging system that doesn't have
balancers. Either way, I can't keep killing my
batteries, so it has to go.
So, I am going back to the individual chargers on each
battery. I now have fourteen 6/12 V, 2/4/6 A, Smart
"Speed Chargers" I only paid $10 each for them so I
hope some of them work. I need 9 to fully charge the
pack. They are all store returns, but most of them
look to never have been used. So far so good.
Now, I know (at least I think) I cannot just hook one
on each battery, plug them all in and expect it to
work. Instead, I expect I would see lots of sparks
and 9 chargers going in the trash can.
I expect this, so I bought isolation transformers. 9
for the main pack and 1 for the aux battery. Total 10
chargers, 10 transformers. Trouble is they are heavy.
I don't mind carrying around the 10 chargers. They
aren't that much more weight than the BC-20. But, all
those transformers add up to a lot of weight.
So, do I really need them? Is there a better way?
Can I use some diodes in line with the chargers to
keep them from blowing up on me? Or, am I stick with
the transformers.
If I'm stuck with the transformers, I'll probably have
to keep them off board and have 10 extensions cords
coming off the car (1 per charger). Nothing like 10
cords to plug in your car.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve
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I am being forced to drive my gasser for a while until the batteries get
sorted out on the EV. Today was a long trip and I wanted to get some
usefull data as this trip is one of my goals for next year.(not with lead)
But the gas gauge is mostly useless. It read full with 40 miles on the
odometer and 3/4 tank after 33 miles and about 2000 ft of climbing.
Now that I am back home it still reads 3/4 of a tank. I wanted to see
how much fuel mileage difference climbing verses descending so I could
get a good power estimate for the EV in case my goal has to be modified
to chargeing at the top of the hill. (this car does about
18city/21highway{28 if I work at it on the flats})
Hey you ev'ers in hilly areas. I figure that on any out and back trip
the hills sort-of cancel and the mileage should be constant. Have you
found this to be true? (not counting regen which should help make it true)
I am still playing with numbers, trying to come up with what would be
the best combination of cells for modules.
already I have 6-8 configuration.
9.6V 12.8V 19.2V
hipower 26650 92Ah 69ah 46ah ~24lb module
(switchable) >1000A max cont.
hipower 18650 67.2 50ah 33.6ah ~19lb module
(switchable) >1000A max cont.
mix 26650 116Ah 85ah 54ah ~24lb module
480A max cont.
mix 18650 79.8ah 58.8 37.8 ~19lb module
336A max cont.
I have heard it said that 800lbs lead = ~1 gallon of gas. this trip was
about 3.3gallons or 2400lbs of lead. (climbing with 2400lbs would
greatly effect this test)
My orbitals are 40lb each so 20*12=240V and 34ah = 8160wh (do I take
this 1 hour rate and multiply by .8 or has that already been taken into
account?)
8160*3 = 24480 which is 24 *24(mixed 26650's) or 576lbs of li-ion???
which seems to jive with what people are saying about 1/4 the weight.
gulp, even at $10/cell, that is 28K.
Maybe a A123 power and kokam energy hybrid pack?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: LED headlight bulbs?
Michael,
You might consider HID (High Intensity Discharge) headlamp bulb
replacement
kits (AKA 'Xenon'). They cut the power used by the headlights in half and
produce a much better (brighter and more suited to human eyes) lighting
effect.
Who says that??!!! I HATE them, because they half-blind me! Maybe they are
just mis-aligned, but I wish they would be BANNED!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Apr 2007 at 19:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'll try to do this at this time verbally and will try to send a scanned
> drawing of my revision on Monday as follow-up.
You can view this drawing at :
http://www.evdl.org/docs/e-nitrous.pdf
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
You know, they aren't the only game in town...
Have a look here to start with:
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=2408
I swear, I could loose my shirt to that website!
Trot, the tool-happy, fox...
On 4/23/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.rodmanandcoinc.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=1307321%7C1307323&PRID=1492961
torich1 wrote:
> Where can these Rodman drills be bouther besides going to their trade
> shows????
I discovered them at a tool show, and so haven't had to look for them
anywhere else. Can you contact them via their website and ask? It's hard
to imagine they only sell at trade shows.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The vehicles in the infamous Total Recall are electric. What else would you
use in a domed city?
The bodies were based on RQ Riley designs, IIRC.
The sound effect for the EVs came from an EV I used to own, which I bought
used from a member of EVAOSC many years ago. The studio sent a sound truck
out to record the car at his home. They really liked the "geary" sound from
its transmission. If you listen closely in the film, you can even hear a
bit of "Curtis whine." ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Apr 2007 at 13:32, Tim Humphrey wrote:
> I would like a copy of that please.
You can grab it here : http://www.evdl.org/docs/e-nitrous.pdf
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
You can view this drawing at :
http://www.evdl.org/docs/e-nitrous.pdf
Thanks for posting that, David.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff, sorry if I'm missing something, but most of us
do our calculations in watt-hours per mile.
I forget what type of rig you have, but my aerodynamic
Civic does 225 wH/mi. on average. That is, on my
downhill stretches, I'm more toward 200 or less, and
on the uphills, more toward 250 or 300.
Your title indicates you have no e-meter with which to
gauge power expenditure.
Wish I could be of more help...
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am being forced to drive my gasser for a while
> until the batteries get
> sorted out on the EV. Today was a long trip and I
> wanted to get some
> usefull data as this trip is one of my goals for
> next year.(not with lead)
>
> But the gas gauge is mostly useless. It read full
> with 40 miles on the
> odometer and 3/4 tank after 33 miles and about 2000
> ft of climbing.
> Now that I am back home it still reads 3/4 of a
> tank. I wanted to see
> how much fuel mileage difference climbing verses
> descending so I could
> get a good power estimate for the EV in case my goal
> has to be modified
> to chargeing at the top of the hill. (this car does
> about
> 18city/21highway{28 if I work at it on the flats})
>
> Hey you ev'ers in hilly areas. I figure that on any
> out and back trip
> the hills sort-of cancel and the mileage should be
> constant. Have you
> found this to be true? (not counting regen which
> should help make it true)
>
> I am still playing with numbers, trying to come up
> with what would be
> the best combination of cells for modules.
> already I have 6-8 configuration.
>
> 9.6V 12.8V
> 19.2V
> hipower 26650 92Ah 69ah
> 46ah ~24lb module
> (switchable) >1000A max cont.
> hipower 18650 67.2 50ah
> 33.6ah ~19lb module
> (switchable) >1000A max cont.
> mix 26650 116Ah 85ah
> 54ah ~24lb module
> 480A max cont.
> mix 18650 79.8ah 58.8
> 37.8 ~19lb module
> 336A max cont.
>
> I have heard it said that 800lbs lead = ~1 gallon of
> gas. this trip was
> about 3.3gallons or 2400lbs of lead. (climbing with
> 2400lbs would
> greatly effect this test)
> My orbitals are 40lb each so 20*12=240V and 34ah =
> 8160wh (do I take
> this 1 hour rate and multiply by .8 or has that
> already been taken into
> account?)
> 8160*3 = 24480 which is 24 *24(mixed 26650's) or
> 576lbs of li-ion???
> which seems to jive with what people are saying
> about 1/4 the weight.
>
> gulp, even at $10/cell, that is 28K.
>
> Maybe a A123 power and kokam energy hybrid pack?
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
What if you have a 300 V pack though? I am not aware
of a DC-DC convertor
that can deal with that input voltage?
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adrian DeLeon
Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2007 4:29 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC-DC converter
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:51:50 -0700, Mark Dutko
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When you say "barely keeps up" do you mean 45 amps
is not enough? Why
> not get the DLS 75? I will be using two DLS 220 55
amp each.
It barely keeps the 12V battery charged. The lack of
current is due to the
low input voltage, not the 45A output limit. With 100V
input, the DLS-45
won't deliver 45A. It's very obvious at night when I
put my foot down on
the pedal - lights dim, fans slow down, etc. As soon
as my foot comes up,
the lights get brighter. Eventually the Zilla will
toss a "SLI low voltage
warning" at me...
The IOTA is rated down to 108VAC (151VDC), so it's
running in "brownout"
mode with my 114V pack. The Zivan NG1-DC is rated to
108VDC, but it does
the same thing. I can watch my 12V system go from 14V
to 12V as my pack
voltags drops from 120V to 100V while accelerating. If
I don't drive
during the day (or if it rains for a week) I have to
manually charge the
12V battery every other day.
The Zivan performs much better than the IOTA, but I
still need to find a
better unit. What I've found so far:
Vicor MegaMod - 3 VI-200 units in parallel, mounted in
a 2.58in x 7.3in x
0.62in case. 110VDC input option covers 66V-160V at
450W. $437 and I would
need to mount a heatsink/fan. The applications
engineer wasn't thrilled
with leaving the 12V battery in place. Said it would
only trickly charge
with the 13.8V output. But if everything works right
the 12V battery will
only get used when sitting in the parking lot
listening to the radio (or
if the DC/DC fails or overloads).
Absopulse RWY280. It's a rebadged unit from another
company - made for
railway use. Rugged, fully enclosed, 57V-168V input,
280W output, 200,000
hour MTBF @ 45C (1,000,000 typical!) Don't know the
price.
Polyamp PU300. 13.8V output @ 300W, but $1,500!
???
MeanWell's SD350 would work well, but a voltage or
current overload turns
the output OFF and power must be cycled to get it
working again :( It
would be a steal at just over $200.
Adrian
> IOTA DLS-45 (Rated 108-132VAC input) barely keeps up
WITHOUT lights or
> heater fan running.
> Zivan NG1-DC (Rated 108-168V battery pack input,
600W output) is OK as
> long as I don't run the heater fan or drive farther
than 15 miles with
> the lights on.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
"xenon" does not mean HID.
Xenon is a halogen element on the periodic table, it is often used in
halogen bulbs and thus the term may be used for ordinary halogen bulbs
and headlights.
HID is a xenon-filled capsule that forms an arc between two electrodes,
much like a xenon strobe or camera flash but continuous.
HID is extremely efficient, more so than halogen bulbs, LEDs, and even
flourescent tubes.
HID headlights are extremely bright but generally legal since the law
specified the electrical power the headlights consume, not the output.
HIDs cannot be started and stopped at will like a halogen bulb, it must
go through a starting cycle that takes a minute or so, even if it's
still warm from being run only moments ago. This prevents it from being
switched on and off like a normal high beam.
Some aftermarket modifications that put a HID capsule in place of a
replaceable conventional bulb have been accused of having a bad spread
that exposes oncoming drivers to too much stray light. They might be right.
Danny
w" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: LED headlight bulbs?
Michael,
You might consider HID (High Intensity Discharge) headlamp bulb
replacement
kits (AKA 'Xenon'). They cut the power used by the headlights in
half and
produce a much better (brighter and more suited to human eyes) lighting
effect.
Who says that??!!! I HATE them, because they half-blind me! Maybe they
are just mis-aligned, but I wish they would be BANNED!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering what experience folks have had with strengthening
things other than springs to handle additional weight in smaller cars,
such as anti sway bars and such to prevent wrack, or outright frame
strengthening through creative welding. Is there any rule of thumb for
that, in terms of the GVW, or is it strictly a case by case analysis?
--T
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--- Begin Message ---
It's unlikely that you will need the transformers, most of the chargers of
this type that I have seen are isolated so you can just hook one up to each
battery. You can test for isolation by doing a continuity test between the
spades on the wall plugin and the outputs on the charger.
damon
From: Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: My battery charger made up of 9 small battery chargers
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:56:35 -0700 (PDT)
I have now all but given up on my old battery charger
- BC-20. The thing is a beast - barely better than a
variac. Maybe worse. It seems that minor imbalance
(differences in my battereis) are a big issue for it.
And, it is killing my battey pack. One battery
already got toasted, so I pulled that battery and the
charger out. Maybe this is pretty much a big issue
for any battery charging system that doesn't have
balancers. Either way, I can't keep killing my
batteries, so it has to go.
So, I am going back to the individual chargers on each
battery. I now have fourteen 6/12 V, 2/4/6 A, Smart
"Speed Chargers" I only paid $10 each for them so I
hope some of them work. I need 9 to fully charge the
pack. They are all store returns, but most of them
look to never have been used. So far so good.
Now, I know (at least I think) I cannot just hook one
on each battery, plug them all in and expect it to
work. Instead, I expect I would see lots of sparks
and 9 chargers going in the trash can.
I expect this, so I bought isolation transformers. 9
for the main pack and 1 for the aux battery. Total 10
chargers, 10 transformers. Trouble is they are heavy.
I don't mind carrying around the 10 chargers. They
aren't that much more weight than the BC-20. But, all
those transformers add up to a lot of weight.
So, do I really need them? Is there a better way?
Can I use some diodes in line with the chargers to
keep them from blowing up on me? Or, am I stick with
the transformers.
If I'm stuck with the transformers, I'll probably have
to keep them off board and have 10 extensions cords
coming off the car (1 per charger). Nothing like 10
cords to plug in your car.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve
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--- Begin Message ---
Hopefully, we can push a few more amps and volts into the motors (and
have them survive) if we advance the timing a bit as we go down the track.
I put a few pictures up on the website of the nifty parts that Derek
made on his uber-nice CNC milling machine.
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/page/2
Everything fits together correctly and moves smoothly so far. If it
all works on the track, we will make the bike go just a bit faster. :-)
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those who may be interested, I stumbled over this on Ebay tonight:
GE 5 hp DC electric motor 190-200 volts dc class P
Item number: 260109446250
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good luck and hope this gets you into the 7's! :)
> Hopefully, we can push a few more amps and volts into the motors (and
> have them survive) if we advance the timing a bit as we go down the track.
>
> I put a few pictures up on the website of the nifty parts that Derek
> made on his uber-nice CNC milling machine.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/page/2
>
> Everything fits together correctly and moves smoothly so far. If it
> all works on the track, we will make the bike go just a bit faster. :-)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had the same thoughts as Steve, but these diagrams support Damon's
statement. Definitely test first:
http://www.batterytender.com/connecting.php#7
http://www.otherpower.com/images/charger_diag.jpg
The first link has a great explanation why series/parallel can pose
unexpected charging challenges.
Richard
On 4/24/07, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It's unlikely that you will need the transformers, most of the chargers of
this type that I have seen are isolated so you can just hook one up to
each
battery. You can test for isolation by doing a continuity test between
the
spades on the wall plugin and the outputs on the charger.
damon
>Now, I know (at least I think) I cannot just hook one
>on each battery, plug them all in and expect it to
>work. Instead, I expect I would see lots of sparks
>and 9 chargers going in the trash can.
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--- Begin Message ---
Sounds exciting. How are you going to tune for optimal brushing timing as a
function of RPM and current?
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:28:01 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Adjustable Brush Timing
Hopefully, we can push a few more amps and volts into the motors (and
have them survive) if we advance the timing a bit as we go down the track.
I put a few pictures up on the website of the nifty parts that Derek
made on his uber-nice CNC milling machine.
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/page/2
Everything fits together correctly and moves smoothly so far. If it
all works on the track, we will make the bike go just a bit faster. :-)
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
But a IOTA that is designed for 230V input (European voltage) and you
will have a unit that expects around 300V DC on its input after rectifier.
Usually the components are good up to 400V DC so even charging should
not damage it (if you have a setup that runs the DC/DC during charging)
Hth,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rodney A
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 8:25 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: DC-DC converter
What if you have a 300 V pack though? I am not aware of a DC-DC convertor
that can deal with that input voltage?
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adrian DeLeon
Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2007 4:29 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC-DC converter
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:51:50 -0700, Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When you say "barely keeps up" do you mean 45 amps
is not enough? Why
> not get the DLS 75? I will be using two DLS 220 55
amp each.
It barely keeps the 12V battery charged. The lack of current is due to the
low input voltage, not the 45A output limit. With 100V input, the DLS-45
won't deliver 45A. It's very obvious at night when I put my foot down on the
pedal - lights dim, fans slow down, etc. As soon as my foot comes up, the
lights get brighter. Eventually the Zilla will toss a "SLI low voltage
warning" at me...
The IOTA is rated down to 108VAC (151VDC), so it's running in "brownout"
mode with my 114V pack. The Zivan NG1-DC is rated to 108VDC, but it does the
same thing. I can watch my 12V system go from 14V to 12V as my pack voltags
drops from 120V to 100V while accelerating. If I don't drive during the day
(or if it rains for a week) I have to manually charge the 12V battery every
other day.
The Zivan performs much better than the IOTA, but I still need to find a
better unit. What I've found so far:
Vicor MegaMod - 3 VI-200 units in parallel, mounted in a 2.58in x 7.3in x
0.62in case. 110VDC input option covers 66V-160V at 450W. $437 and I would
need to mount a heatsink/fan. The applications engineer wasn't thrilled with
leaving the 12V battery in place. Said it would only trickly charge with the
13.8V output. But if everything works right the 12V battery will only get
used when sitting in the parking lot listening to the radio (or if the DC/DC
fails or overloads).
Absopulse RWY280. It's a rebadged unit from another company - made for
railway use. Rugged, fully enclosed, 57V-168V input, 280W output, 200,000
hour MTBF @ 45C (1,000,000 typical!) Don't know the price.
Polyamp PU300. 13.8V output @ 300W, but $1,500!
???
MeanWell's SD350 would work well, but a voltage or current overload turns
the output OFF and power must be cycled to get it working again :( It would
be a steal at just over $200.
Adrian
> IOTA DLS-45 (Rated 108-132VAC input) barely keeps up
WITHOUT lights or
> heater fan running.
> Zivan NG1-DC (Rated 108-168V battery pack input,
600W output) is OK as
> long as I don't run the heater fan or drive farther
than 15 miles with
> the lights on.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
It is OT, but since you try to design your EV using this data, here we go -
To accurately measure gas consumption:
- go to a nearby gas station and fill your tank till it is full, pump clicks
off.
- drive the route you want to measure
- (preferably go to the same gas station pump and) refill your tank.
If the temp did not change too much between first and second refill
and you manage to get the pump to click off at the same fill level,
then you have a pretty accurate measurement of gas volume that
you burned on this trip.
I agree that the gas gauge is more a guess gauge.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:59 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Man I miss my emeter.
I am being forced to drive my gasser for a while until the batteries get
sorted out on the EV. Today was a long trip and I wanted to get some usefull
data as this trip is one of my goals for next year.(not with lead)
But the gas gauge is mostly useless. It read full with 40 miles on the
odometer and 3/4 tank after 33 miles and about 2000 ft of climbing.
Now that I am back home it still reads 3/4 of a tank. I wanted to see how
much fuel mileage difference climbing verses descending so I could get a
good power estimate for the EV in case my goal has to be modified to
chargeing at the top of the hill. (this car does about
18city/21highway{28 if I work at it on the flats})
Hey you ev'ers in hilly areas. I figure that on any out and back trip the
hills sort-of cancel and the mileage should be constant. Have you found this
to be true? (not counting regen which should help make it true)
I am still playing with numbers, trying to come up with what would be the
best combination of cells for modules.
already I have 6-8 configuration.
9.6V 12.8V 19.2V
hipower 26650 92Ah 69ah 46ah ~24lb module
(switchable) >1000A max cont.
hipower 18650 67.2 50ah 33.6ah ~19lb module
(switchable) >1000A max cont.
mix 26650 116Ah 85ah 54ah ~24lb module
480A max cont.
mix 18650 79.8ah 58.8 37.8 ~19lb module
336A max cont.
I have heard it said that 800lbs lead = ~1 gallon of gas. this trip was
about 3.3gallons or 2400lbs of lead. (climbing with 2400lbs would greatly
effect this test) My orbitals are 40lb each so 20*12=240V and 34ah = 8160wh
(do I take this 1 hour rate and multiply by .8 or has that already been
taken into
account?)
8160*3 = 24480 which is 24 *24(mixed 26650's) or 576lbs of li-ion???
which seems to jive with what people are saying about 1/4 the weight.
gulp, even at $10/cell, that is 28K.
Maybe a A123 power and kokam energy hybrid pack?
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