EV Digest 6697
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Zivan acting up
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: DOD question and heat issues
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Electric Boats :Trailerable
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV digest 6695
by Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Fairbanks response, letter to editor
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric Boats :Trailerable
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Electric Boats :Trailerable
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Boats
by "James Allgood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DC-DC converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DOD question and heat issues
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Video on you tube
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Lithium Iron phosphate with BMS
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Happened twice,
My Zivan NG-3 goes through Red and yellow phase. In the green (Float)
phase, the light blinks and the cooling fan continues to run.
Instead of the expected Float voltage of 172 V at 0.2 Amps, the Zivan is at
169.5 V and 0.8 Amps
This happened on 2 occasions. (the first occasion occured for 4 hours
without reaching 172)
Battery fluid level is good. No unexpected voltage sags or range loss while
driving.
Presently I'm testing the Zivan without the temperature Probe
I'll also call Greg
Any thoughts,
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Richard,
According to my battery chart, the following data for a 6 volt battery is:
Charge No Load Specific 75 amp
Voltage Gravity load
100% 6.37 1.277 5.95
90 6.31 1.250 5.88
80 6.25 1.238 5.81
70 6.19 1.217 5.75
60 6.12 1.195 5.68
50 6.05 1.172 5.62
40 5.98 1.148 5.55
30 5.91 1.124 5.48
20 5.83 1.098 5.41
10 5.75 1.073 5.35
Note: 20% State of Charge is the same as 80% Depth of Discharge
As you can see, the State of Charge is base on the full charge voltage of
the battery and is not proportional to the full charge. A 50% DOD is 6.05
volts and not 6.37 x 0.50 = 3.185 V or even 3 volts of a 6 volt battery.
Your 16 batteries at 80% DOD would be about 16 x 5.83 V = 93.28 V at no load
or 86.56 V at a 75 amp load.
On my dash, I have a low voltage warning light that comes on at 5.5 volts
per battery and it will shut down the controller at 5.35 V per battery at a
75 amp load.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:33 AM
Subject: DOD question and heat issues
> I am having a brain cramp trying to remember the way depth of discharge
> works. Help me out here:
>
> I have 8 volt batteries. I run a total of 16 batteries which in theory is
> 128 volts. We all know that each cell, fresh off the charger is about 2.45
> volts. (at least according to my manufacturer's tech support) so 64 cells
> X
> 2.4v = 156.8 volts total which is what my Zivan is programmed for. So
> here's
> my question:
>
> Is the 80% DOD rule for 128 volts or 156 volts? Or is it perhaps the
> "resting" voltage of around 150 volts once the battery has been off the
> charger for a while? 80% of these 3 values would be: 102.4 volts, 124
> volts,
> and 120 volts. I'm trying to figure out when I'm on "empty". I've yet to
> drive this car to the point where my Mark I "butt-o-meter" felt any
> significant loss of performance. My longest drive has been 36 miles, 17 of
> which was at highway speed. When I finally pulled in to the house, I was
> at
> 120 volts and was only then starting to notice some loss of pep.
>
> Second issue:
>
> I've had a couple of days now where the temps have hit the 80's. The Zivan
> NG3 is mounted in one of the 2 allowable positions (horizontal) in the
> trunk
> of my Beetle. I've found that now my 12 ga. extension cord is much warmer
> and the charge time is much longer. Last night I just figured out that the
> charger is recirculating air in the trunk until it gets hotter and hotter
> so
> it's losing efficiency. I opened the trunk to take advantage of the cooler
> night air. Do any of you Southerners have any strategies for coping with
> the
> heat? I'm building an E-Beetle for my uncle in south Florida and I'll need
> a
> solution for this as well as for my own car.
>
> The motor and controller are getting pretty warm too due to a lack of air
> flow when driving. The builder lived in Alaska where this isn't really a
> problem. He sealed up the engine bay good and tight with a belly pan and a
> rain guard to block the Beetle's rear engine vents to keep the
> motor/controller dry. I already have a solution for that though. I'm going
> to cut 3 small circular holes in the belly pan and install dryer vents to
> scoop and exhaust air while driving. They have flaps so I can close them
> during the rain and winter.
>
> Thanks in advance for the help,
>
> Rich A.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I like Rod's link references for pontoon boats that are trailerable <17'
long. The mono-sail boat huls suggested by Jerry etc 25-30' are too long to
trailer and too narrow to hold people. I assume they are more efficient
than a tampoon boat but that's the only one that looks practical and the
electric boats I've ridden on in Florida (Ocala & Silver Springs). I'm not
sure what the efficiency hit is though from going to a pontoon style vs a
sailboat type hull but I've got to be able to tow it behind my Ford ranger.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Electric Boats
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:44:25 +0530
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
i believe lynch motor's old webpage had a link to the world record
set by a german lady in a powerboat using only battery and lynch motor
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Boats
> We used to have a few regulars on the EVDL who were into racing electric
> boats. I remember some pretty hair-raising stories! This was probably
at
> least 10 years ago. You might try the old Crest archives to see if any
of
> their messages are still hanging round.
>
> http://crest.org/discussion/ev/
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> approx. 3300 lbs. curb weight,
>
> The weight has always perplexed me as I always assumed they built it
> using fiberglass to reduce weight. Considering the body and the
> frame, of the two; which one weighs more? Any numbers on either?
Probably both contribute. Doors are metal framed, and lots of other
metal in the subframe. It is more like a fiberglass "skinned" car.
The suspension/drivetrain portion of the frame is quite heavy,
components are sized for racing. It has LARGE rotors/dual piston
calipers (great for breaking with heavy battery load!) Large A arms,
beefy trailing arms & link rods, etc. Most of these will serve me well
in a battery laden car.
I can shed some additional weight by replacing the 2 factory seats
(motors, etc) with fiberglass racing versions.
>
> Do you want more range or more performance? What's your favorite
> aspect of an AC system vs's a DC one?
My initial research says that AC is more efficient for "heavy"
vehicles. I need performance to the extent that I can cruise up steep
hills at the speed of prevailing traffic. Beyond that I want range.
> The frame is also a heavy ladder bar design. The luxury items
> fitted to most Corvettes also weighed quite a bit, but you ended up
> with a very solid feeling luxurious personal transportation device.
Solid frame == good for holding batteries.
As above, seats will go (be replaced). Once I start digging around I
suspect I will find a lot of other weighty things to scrap. I will be
removing a 26 gallon gas tank, massive exhaust system, large spare
tire, heavy automatic transmission, power steering, AC, heater, etc.
--
Steve
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric car
April 19, 2007
To the editor:
Thank you very much for your story on the electric car
work of Michael Golub.
In a town of gas guzzling trucks bigger than your
cabin (that idle or are plugged in too often
), this
was a welcome story.
Further, in a town with horrendous air quality, this
is a step in the right direction.
If only the borough and/or state would offer up some
serious funding to jump start this travel solution.
Politicians read: Lets not beg oil companies for more
pipelines, but seek other options!
Walk, bike and abandon your car!
Matthew Jones
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm planning a small, simple 3-wheeler EV (half-on or smaller, see
below), and I'm at a point where I need to plan budget, and that means
picking a motor (series) and controller -- I'm pretty committed to AGMs
for high output and low weight. FWIW, I'm willing to pay a fair price
for motor and controller -- no need to dumpster-dive, but no need to
over-spend. My usage is basic commute, 30 miles round trip --
highway-capable preferred but not absolutely necessary. The plan is to
slide under 1000 pounds (<400 chassis, <100 body, <400 batteries, <150
motor, and precious little else), fantasy target is actually 800.
Eight 12V Optima D34 Yellow Top batteries total ~352 pounds. I'm
planning 96V, but I might be able to get by with a 72-volt pack. I know
that Jerry made the E-Woody work with a 48V pack, and I'm shooting for a
similar weight, but I imagine that I'm more aggressive with the
accelerator. (http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/ tells me that YT D34s
are 12V, 55 AH, 120 reserve minutes; 10x6.8x7.8" <Height includes 1"
terminals>; 43.8 lbs; $174.95 each, includes shipping) Low weight trumps
cost per watt, but I'll miss the ability to equalize. I plan to use a
bank of individal chargers to keep from gassing about a grand worth of
AGMs.
A potential point of complication is that I'm going to start with
chain-drive and no transmission... I'm not sure if I can get the
acceleration and range of speed I desire, but I will try.
I'm open to suggestions on appropriate motors (and vendors!)... I'm
thinking a 6.7" should scoot fairly well in such a lightweight rig, but
have a hard time breaking my bigger-is-better hot-rod habit, and am also
looking at 8" motors. I'm entirely baffled as to how big a controller I
need... I've studied the EV Album and there's IMHO a lack of consensus
for what is needed and what would just be nice to have.
Comments?
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too am an avid watersiier, so have an interest here.
Here's a link, not much help to "us" but shows it's possible.
http://www.boesch-boats.ch/en/boats/560/sundeck_electric_power.html
I recall years ago that there wasa device similar to an RC boat that would pull
a skiier. It wasn't very large, about 1/3 the size of a jetski. The controls
were in the ski handle. It was a one man water skiing operation. Have you seen
it?
How about a jonboat type hull, aren't those pretty efficient?
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:37:59 -0500, "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I like Rod's link references for pontoon boats that are trailerable <17'
> long. The mono-sail boat huls suggested by Jerry etc 25-30' are too long
> to
> trailer and too narrow to hold people. I assume they are more efficient
> than a tampoon boat but that's the only one that looks practical and the
> electric boats I've ridden on in Florida (Ocala & Silver Springs). I'm
> not
> sure what the efficiency hit is though from going to a pontoon style vs a
> sailboat type hull but I've got to be able to tow it behind my Ford
> ranger.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
>>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Electric Boats
>>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:44:25 +0530
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain;
>> charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>i believe lynch motor's old webpage had a link to the world record
>>set by a german lady in a powerboat using only battery and lynch motor
>>
>>..peekay
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>>Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:38 PM
>>Subject: Re: Electric Boats
>>
>>
>> > We used to have a few regulars on the EVDL who were into racing
> electric
>> > boats. I remember some pretty hair-raising stories! This was
> probably
>>at
>> > least 10 years ago. You might try the old Crest archives to see if
> any
>>of
>> > their messages are still hanging round.
>> >
>> > http://crest.org/discussion/ev/
>> >
>> >
>> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> > EV List Administrator
>> >
>> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
> http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > However, I would go one step further and suggest that the reason
glare
> > from headlights (of all types) has become such an annoyance is that
> > nowadays, so many vehicles have the option, built-in, to adjust the
> > angle of their headlamps at the flick of a switch.
> I've seen this on cars in Europe. However, I've never seen it in a
car in
> the US. As much as we are gadget geeks over here, the only reason I
can
> think of for there absence is that it's not legal.
Let's hope that it recognizes and requires personal responsibility from
the driver, and that the drivers provide it.
I'm all for having such doo-dads and luxuries as OPTIONS, but changing
the REQUIREMENTS just adds more complication and expense to
transportation that is already IMHO over-burdened. Crash-testing, ABS,
airbags, and more have undoubtedly made the roads safer for everyone,
but these safety mandates have artificially raised barriers to entry for
new automakers/importers... talk to Jerry and Lee about this!
I have improved lighting on 3 out of 4 of the ICE fleet, and plan
better-than-stock lighting for the EV, as well. I run DOT-approved
replacement housings, and 30/100 watt halogen inserts... on low, they
are very similar to stock brightness, with sharper distribution
patterns, and on high, they reach long and bright, still with sharp
cutoff. It takes a responsible driver to toggle their application, but I
appreciate the option.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks good.
I like where they state that the battery bank is "1 12v 78A/h, with
cover"...from the picture it looks like they have at least a dozen
batteries, perhaps 24, which makes more sense as the motor is a 50kw, 252v
3phAC motor.
-MT
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:05 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Electric Boats :Trailerable
I too am an avid watersiier, so have an interest here.
Here's a link, not much help to "us" but shows it's possible.
http://www.boesch-boats.ch/en/boats/560/sundeck_electric_power.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We used to have a Duffy when we lived on the water.
http://www.duffyboats.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Boats
Jim Rudholm's 26ft. picnic launch "Sneakeasy". 48v 12-20m.range,
10.8knots top speed. Seen here:
http://www.psnw.com/~jmrudholm/sneakeasy.html
tks
Lock Hughes
alive, and kicking, in Toronto
human-electric hybrid ped
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
i was curious since I'm a water skier what lind of hulls are the most
efficient (go the fastest) when converting to electric, say 48V, 8ea
6V
Trojan's. Most of the set-ups in Ocalla Florida and Silver Springs
were
pontoon boats at 48V for the park service and tourists. I would
probably
have to give up water skiing though but at 5mpg that may be worth
doing. I
saw some with Ray Electric Outboards (Advance DC & Curtis control)
and one
solar tampoon boat with twin large 1hp trolling motors on the back
"The
Chabunagunamog". They all apppeared to do fairly slow, I'm thinking
about
6-12 knots for about 6 hours run time. What is the best electric
boat
recepe'?
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email
the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at
http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might want to take a good look at what some of the motorcycles are
doing, as you are in their class as much as anything. My motorcycle has a
6.7 inch ADC with a sprocket and chain, so a single gear ratio. It
accelerates and pulls hills reasonably well (about the same as most small
cars) and has a top speed of 60 MPH using an Alltrax 48 volt controller with
54 volts worth of NiCad BB600s. That's about 175 lbs of batteries. This
gives me a solid 15 mile range, with a few more miles in reserve if I really
push it.
So if I were you and concerned about cost I would be looking at picking up a
6.7 inch ADC motor or equivialent and an Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp controller.
That should give you the best bang for your buck and good performance.
However, 6 D34 Optimas are not going to give you 30 miles worth of range, so
you will need to either go to the larger size Optimas, run more then a
single string of the D34s, or go with a higher capacity flooded battery.
BTW, I happen to have a spare 6.7 inch ADC motor I wouldn't mind selling to
help fund my new EV project. I believe it is one of the Tropica motors as
the nameplate gives a 72 volt rating. If anyone is interested contact me
off list. I also have a 48 volt 275 amp Curtis controller that can be used
with it.
Damon
From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Light EV, controller/motor?
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:52:38 -0700
I'm planning a small, simple 3-wheeler EV (half-on or smaller, see
below), and I'm at a point where I need to plan budget, and that means
picking a motor (series) and controller -- I'm pretty committed to AGMs
for high output and low weight. FWIW, I'm willing to pay a fair price
for motor and controller -- no need to dumpster-dive, but no need to
over-spend. My usage is basic commute, 30 miles round trip --
highway-capable preferred but not absolutely necessary. The plan is to
slide under 1000 pounds (<400 chassis, <100 body, <400 batteries, <150
motor, and precious little else), fantasy target is actually 800.
Eight 12V Optima D34 Yellow Top batteries total ~352 pounds. I'm
planning 96V, but I might be able to get by with a 72-volt pack. I know
that Jerry made the E-Woody work with a 48V pack, and I'm shooting for a
similar weight, but I imagine that I'm more aggressive with the
accelerator. (http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/ tells me that YT D34s
are 12V, 55 AH, 120 reserve minutes; 10x6.8x7.8" <Height includes 1"
terminals>; 43.8 lbs; $174.95 each, includes shipping) Low weight trumps
cost per watt, but I'll miss the ability to equalize. I plan to use a
bank of individal chargers to keep from gassing about a grand worth of
AGMs.
A potential point of complication is that I'm going to start with
chain-drive and no transmission... I'm not sure if I can get the
acceleration and range of speed I desire, but I will try.
I'm open to suggestions on appropriate motors (and vendors!)... I'm
thinking a 6.7" should scoot fairly well in such a lightweight rig, but
have a hard time breaking my bigger-is-better hot-rod habit, and am also
looking at 8" motors. I'm entirely baffled as to how big a controller I
need... I've studied the EV Album and there's IMHO a lack of consensus
for what is needed and what would just be nice to have.
Comments?
Randii
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been playing with a DC/DC... the caps are rated at 200 volts
but there are 2 in series and they are part of a voltage doubler
circuit which they engage for 120vac and don't for 240vac.
That is a very common design.
the 300v car charges to 375v.
The capacitors in series will have a 400vdc maximum voltage rating which
is barely enough. Note that the voltage rating goes down as they age or
when they are hot, so you don't have much safety margin!
The problem I'm haveing with them is that even though they say under
voltage protected I've brunned one out charging a dead battery.
Undervoltage protection means it can handle too low an *input* voltage
gracefully. Without undervoltage protection, the supply draws more input
current as the input voltage goes down, in an effort to maintain full
output. The supply overheats and destroys itself.
With undervoltage protection, reducing the input voltage reduces the
output current that it will supply. This keeps it from overheating and
failing; however, you also get less output current which may cause other
problems.
When you connect a deeply discharged battery, the DC/DC is forced to
operate in current limit. Some of these generic power supplies don't
have current limit; they will either die or totally shut down if overloaded.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
childreypa wrote:
Hey all,
This is only relevant because its about motors. I have water cooled my
computer, and now the weak link in my system is the pump. Yes I could
buy one specifically for this application but im looking at atleast 40
bucks. What I want to do is make a brushless disk "pancake motor"
similar to a windmill generator. The disk would be make of plexi glass
inside a water tight plexi glass compartment. It would have n impeller
on it. The coils would actuallt be outside the water chamber so there
would be no holes or water tight bearings needed. I suppose this would
be an induction motor, which means it can only be run on AC right? Can a
brushless disk motor be run on DC?
They already make magnetically coupled pumps. They are used for
corrosive fluids, or when you want very long life (no seals to leak).
There are three basic styles. Both normally use AC motors (to avoid
brushes and get longer life). The first is a conventional motor of any
kind, with a large donut-shaped magnet on the shaft. The pump is
attached to it. The body of the pump is plastic, and the magnet inside
is coupled to the impeller. The spinning donut magnet on the outside
spins the inside magnet to make it work. Having the magnetic force
radial means there is low force on the bearings inside the pump. The
best designs "float" the rotor in the working fluid, so there is no
contact and the bearings last "forever".
The other style replaces the rotor of the motor with the pump and magnet
assembly, forming a synchronous motor. Sometimes the rotor is a solid
lump of iron, or even an induction motor rotor, which start better. This
type costs more and tends to add motor heat to the fluid being pumped.
They are smaller, but due to the necessarily larger air gap, they are
less efficient.
The third type is rare, but interesting. If the fluid itself happens to
be conductive or magnetic, then a conventional motor stator will move
the fluid itself. A thought experiment; remove the core from a normal
induction motor, and dunk it underwater. The water inside the hole where
the rotor was will spin around! But for this to be practical, the fluid
has to be very conductive (mercury, molten solder, sulfuric acid, etc.)
or magnetic (like a ferrofluid; oil with a colloidal suspension of iron
particles in it). Given that you don't need much flow or much pressure
to cool your computer, you may be able to get this to work well enough
with salt water.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Acuti wrote:
Is the 80% DOD rule for 128 volts or 156 volts?
You've reached 80% DOD (Depth Of Discharge) when the voltage falls to
1.75v *under load*. How many amphours that is depends on the load
current. A battery at 80% DOD with a 100 amp load is only about 50% DOD
with a 25 amp load; you could connect a lighter load and get another 30%
out of it.
When you measure a battery's *no-load* voltage after it has been sitting
a long time (like overnight), you are measuring the *absolute* state of
charge, not relative to any particular load.
I'm trying to figure out when I'm on "empty"... When I finally pulled
in to the house, I was at 120 volts and was only then starting to
notice some loss of pep.
The voltage immediately after arriving home is meaningless (except in a
gross sense, to tell if you've reversed any cells or destroyed any
batteries).
What matters is the voltage *under load* as you drove into the driveway.
If it was still over 1.75v/cell, they ain't dead yet! :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
That third type is really interesting. I wonder... I think salt water
would be to corrosive, even with an additive. Do you know of any decent
heat transfer fluids this would work for? Or maybe an additive?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
childreypa wrote:
> Hey all,
> This is only relevant because its about motors. I have water cooled my
> computer, and now the weak link in my system is the pump. Yes I could
> buy one specifically for this application but im looking at atleast 40
> bucks. What I want to do is make a brushless disk "pancake motor"
> similar to a windmill generator. The disk would be make of plexi glass
> inside a water tight plexi glass compartment. It would have n impeller
> on it. The coils would actuallt be outside the water chamber so there
> would be no holes or water tight bearings needed. I suppose this would
> be an induction motor, which means it can only be run on AC right? Can
a
> brushless disk motor be run on DC?
They already make magnetically coupled pumps. They are used for
corrosive fluids, or when you want very long life (no seals to leak).
There are three basic styles. Both normally use AC motors (to avoid
brushes and get longer life). The first is a conventional motor of any
kind, with a large donut-shaped magnet on the shaft. The pump is
attached to it. The body of the pump is plastic, and the magnet inside
is coupled to the impeller. The spinning donut magnet on the outside
spins the inside magnet to make it work. Having the magnetic force
radial means there is low force on the bearings inside the pump. The
best designs "float" the rotor in the working fluid, so there is no
contact and the bearings last "forever".
The other style replaces the rotor of the motor with the pump and magnet
assembly, forming a synchronous motor. Sometimes the rotor is a solid
lump of iron, or even an induction motor rotor, which start better. This
type costs more and tends to add motor heat to the fluid being pumped.
They are smaller, but due to the necessarily larger air gap, they are
less efficient.
The third type is rare, but interesting. If the fluid itself happens to
be conductive or magnetic, then a conventional motor stator will move
the fluid itself. A thought experiment; remove the core from a normal
induction motor, and dunk it underwater. The water inside the hole where
the rotor was will spin around! But for this to be practical, the fluid
has to be very conductive (mercury, molten solder, sulfuric acid, etc.)
or magnetic (like a ferrofluid; oil with a colloidal suspension of iron
particles in it). Given that you don't need much flow or much pressure
to cool your computer, you may be able to get this to work well enough
with salt water.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Normally, making water conductive means adding ions - which is why Lee
mentioned sulfuric acid. As you can infer, adding ions makes it
corrosive. I don't think there's any additive you can put in it to
make it conductive but non-corrosive. Running salt water through your
computer just sounds like a bad idea anyway.
This is pretty much off topic and I'm guessing David Roden is about to
click the "send" button..
--
Martin K
On 4/25/07, childreypa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That third type is really interesting. I wonder... I think salt water
would be to corrosive, even with an additive. Do you know of any decent
heat transfer fluids this would work for? Or maybe an additive?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out this little piece I put up on you tube.
Gadget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhywPK7Vz0
visit my websites at
reverendgadget.com,
leftcoastelectric.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm converting a 1986 Mazda (extended
cab) pickup to electric.
I want to use the stock bed (it is pretty
light).
How can I attach it, and have it lift
to access the batteries underneath the bed -
I'm concerned about mounting it on the
back, then when it swings up, the bottom/front of the bed (in front of
the wheel-well/outer skin) hitting the back of the cab.
I'm thinking that it'll need to slide
back a little, but I don't know what kind of mounting hardware would provide
that functionality.
I've seen a few pictures of trucks with
'standard' beds lifted, but wasn't able to see any details about how the
bed was mounted to avoid the clearance problem.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/25/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm planning a small, simple 3-wheeler EV (half-on or smaller, see
below), and I'm at a point where I need to plan budget, and that means
picking a motor (series) and controller -- I'm pretty committed to AGMs
for high output and low weight. FWIW, I'm willing to pay a fair price
for motor and controller -- no need to dumpster-dive, but no need to
over-spend. My usage is basic commute, 30 miles round trip --
highway-capable preferred but not absolutely necessary. The plan is to
slide under 1000 pounds (<400 chassis, <100 body, <400 batteries, <150
motor, and precious little else), fantasy target is actually 800.
Is this going to based around an RQRiley plan? Just curious as to what
sort of three wheeler you are going to build. Tadpole or trike?
<snip>
Neat project idea! :) The ADC is obviously the first choice because of
price/power ratio, but if you wanted to spring a bit more cash you
could get the larger LEMCO motor, save a bit of weight, have more
efficiency, and get Regen.
--T
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--- Begin Message ---
http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html
They supposedly have a kit that you
can buy, that includes all kinds of things -
I'm sure you could tailor the kit (don't
include this, don't include that, etc) - so that you could use your own
items (motor, controller, etc).
The BugE is only designed to go about
40mph, but living in Charlotte madhouse traffic (not freeway!) - I need
something that can go up to at least 55mph...
Thus, when I finish my truck, and build
my own BugE....
From an email I received from the Blue
Sky folks, they expect folks to tweak their design;
I like the 3-wheeled design over a 2-wheeled
(motorcycle) design (shall I go into the reasons?)
I broke my leg once on a motorcycle,
I'm lazy, I don't want to have to pick
it up when/if I lay it down,
I don't want 'body damage' in the event
I lay it down,
I like the BugE's canopy...
I don't know how helpful these folks
will be, but I found their link on a PBS thing about "alternative
energy/Car of the future" vehicles that PBS plans to do sometime this
fall.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/my.html
Has anyone built an electric Doran or
an electric Tri-Magnum?
http://www.rqriley.com/doran.html
http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html
I like the idea of a larger (2-passenger)
vehicle...
Also, don't forget the folks at rqriley.com
They're working the plans for a hybrid/diesel...
http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm
Ed Cooley
Work 704-427-0973
Wachovia Corporation
Enterprise Messaging
"damon henry"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
04/25/2007 11:37
|
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu |
|
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To
| ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
|
|
cc
|
|
|
Subject
| RE: Light EV, controller/motor? |
|
You might want to take a good look at what some of
the motorcycles are
doing, as you are in their class as much as anything. My motorcycle
has a
6.7 inch ADC with a sprocket and chain, so a single gear ratio. It
accelerates and pulls hills reasonably well (about the same as most small
cars) and has a top speed of 60 MPH using an Alltrax 48 volt controller
with
54 volts worth of NiCad BB600s. That's about 175 lbs of batteries.
This
gives me a solid 15 mile range, with a few more miles in reserve if I really
push it.
So if I were you and concerned about cost I would be looking at picking
up a
6.7 inch ADC motor or equivialent and an Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp controller.
That should give you the best bang for your buck and good performance.
However, 6 D34 Optimas are not going to give you 30 miles worth of range,
so
you will need to either go to the larger size Optimas, run more then a
single string of the D34s, or go with a higher capacity flooded battery.
BTW, I happen to have a spare 6.7 inch ADC motor I wouldn't mind selling
to
help fund my new EV project. I believe it is one of the Tropica motors
as
the nameplate gives a 72 volt rating. If anyone is interested contact
me
off list. I also have a 48 volt 275 amp Curtis controller that can
be used
with it.
Damon
>From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: Light EV, controller/motor?
>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:52:38 -0700
>
>I'm planning a small, simple 3-wheeler EV (half-on or smaller, see
>below), and I'm at a point where I need to plan budget, and that means
>picking a motor (series) and controller -- I'm pretty committed to
AGMs
>for high output and low weight. FWIW, I'm willing to pay a fair price
>for motor and controller -- no need to dumpster-dive, but no need to
>over-spend. My usage is basic commute, 30 miles round trip --
>highway-capable preferred but not absolutely necessary. The plan is
to
>slide under 1000 pounds (<400 chassis, <100 body, <400 batteries,
<150
>motor, and precious little else), fantasy target is actually 800.
>
>Eight 12V Optima D34 Yellow Top batteries total ~352 pounds. I'm
>planning 96V, but I might be able to get by with a 72-volt pack. I
know
>that Jerry made the E-Woody work with a 48V pack, and I'm shooting
for a
>similar weight, but I imagine that I'm more aggressive with the
>accelerator. (http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/ tells me that YT
D34s
>are 12V, 55 AH, 120 reserve minutes; 10x6.8x7.8" <Height includes
1"
>terminals>; 43.8 lbs; $174.95 each, includes shipping) Low weight
trumps
>cost per watt, but I'll miss the ability to equalize. I plan to use
a
>bank of individal chargers to keep from gassing about a grand worth
of
>AGMs.
>
>A potential point of complication is that I'm going to start with
>chain-drive and no transmission... I'm not sure if I can get the
>acceleration and range of speed I desire, but I will try.
>
>I'm open to suggestions on appropriate motors (and vendors!)... I'm
>thinking a 6.7" should scoot fairly well in such a lightweight
rig, but
>have a hard time breaking my bigger-is-better hot-rod habit, and am
also
>looking at 8" motors. I'm entirely baffled as to how big a controller
I
>need... I've studied the EV Album and there's IMHO a lack of consensus
>for what is needed and what would just be nice to have.
>
>Comments?
>
>Randii
>
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url="">
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a link to one I found
http://hihontek.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008824321726/Homepage.htm
On 4/24/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Could you share the name of the company?
On 4/24/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> yes, about 3.2Volts worth ;-) sorry, couldn't resist.
>
> It is hard to find the discharge information (the chinese company that
> makes these sells them direct also, better data sheets). The charts show
> a max of about 1C on the 50ah .5C on the 100ah
> So they might be good for an energy only pack hybridized with something
> else for power.
>
> I worry more that they state only 400cycles.
>
> At work I have info from a company with 50ah and 100ah LiFePO4 at around
> $2/ah and 1500 cycle and a little better amperage capacity. 50ah avail
> now 100ah in june.
> the next 6 monthes in the lifepo4 arena looks to be very interesting.
>
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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