EV Digest 6698
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fort Pierce's 9th EV rally
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Zivan placement answer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors .. 3rd type of motor for
conductive/magnetic fluid
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: We're screwed. NIce story ..
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fixin my Blue Meanie envy
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Zivan acting up
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Brian Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Zivan acting up
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Video on you tube
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors .. 3rd type of motor for
conductive/magnetic
fluid
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Fixin my Blue Meanie envy
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Fixin my Blue Meanie envy
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Fixin my Blue Meanie envy
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) We're Not Screwed
by Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This saterday I'll be having Fort Pierce's 9th EV rally car show . Direstions
can be found at www.grassrootsev.com on the events page. We will be having a
distance contest that can be entered any time before 11 and will have 3 classes
, 1 hour , 2 hour and 3 hour .. , Show and shine starts at 11 and ends at 4 ,
That at 4 we will head next door to the tractor supply store to do a mini auto
cross , or handling contest , and conclude the event there. See you there ./
Steve Clunn for more info 772 971 0533
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--- Begin Message ---
I forget who asked,
I can tell what one other and I have done with our Zivan.
S10 driver from New Mexico has it behind his S10 seat as well as I.
I prop mine forward during recharge and if a hot day I crack the windows.
The unit does get warm. It still functions through last summer.
Granted, the cabin is probably the worst place to put the Zivan due to the
greenhouse effect of heat build up due to windows.
It might be a little better under the hood.
Ben
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The third type is rare, but interesting. If the fluid itself happens to
> be conductive or magnetic, then a conventional motor stator will move
> the fluid itself. A thought experiment; remove the core from a normal
> induction motor, and dunk it underwater. The water inside the hole where
> the rotor was will spin around! But for this to be practical, the fluid
> has to be very conductive (mercury, molten solder, sulfuric acid, etc.)
> or magnetic (like a ferrofluid; oil with a colloidal suspension of iron
> particles in it).
this is very fascinating .. but for an altogether different reason
sure is 'rare' .. never came across any such motor though i did
get an email about inside painted tin can with the bottom circumference
scratched .. applying current to the can and a hanging wire will
make salt water go round and round .. creating vortex
is there really such a motor being sold commercially ?
if yes, for what purpose ?
..peekay
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--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
Has anyone built an electric Doran or an electric Tri-Magnum?
http://www.rqriley.com/doran.html
http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html
I like the idea of a larger (2-passenger) vehicle...
For some reason I like the TriMuter better than the Tri Magnum, although I
realize it is 'less safe' since it is a trike design. I am still thinking
about making one, although changing the styling.. it's on my list of
'possibilities'. :) The thing is there is not a whole heck of a lot of space
for battery. You need maximum wh/l with those or you only get 40 miles or so
(there is an electric Doran in the EVAlbum) Definitely an argument for LiPo,
but they are just so darned pricey.
Also, don't forget the folks at rqriley.com
They're working the plans for a hybrid/diesel...
http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm
Definitely! I'm on the notification list for that. It looks really
interesting. I'd probably end up putting battery where the ICE is though!
--T
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--- Begin Message ---
Ed,
The attached link has some pictures if you scroll down. You can get
some ideas on how to mount, where to hinge, etc. In the case of a
standard bed, the hinge would have to be low to keep the box from
hitting the cab, or the box mounted a little to the rear, which may look
bad. This picture shows some type of a compound hinge that works and
clears the bumper as well. http://www.stealthdumptrucks.com/
<http://www.stealthdumptrucks.com/>
Your box is not heavy, and I have seen a kit on E-bay for a Polaris that
looked interesting. However, the Polaris kit does not show enough
detail in the picture to see what is being purchased. Item number
290107346201 on E-bay is an example.
However you set it up, when you work on the truck with the bed raised,
do not trust the lift alone. Build in some type of safety bar that can
be moved into place to support the bed in case of a hydraulic line
failure, or some other problem.
Alan
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:45 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
I'm converting a 1986 Mazda (extended cab) pickup to electric.
I want to use the stock bed (it is pretty light).
How can I attach it, and have it lift to access the batteries underneath
the bed -
I'm concerned about mounting it on the back, then when it swings up, the
bottom/front of the bed (in front of the wheel-well/outer skin) hitting
the back of the cab.
I'm thinking that it'll need to slide back a little, but I don't know
what kind of mounting hardware would provide that functionality.
I've seen a few pictures of trucks with 'standard' beds lifted, but
wasn't able to see any details about how the bed was mounted to avoid
the clearance problem.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: We're screwed. NIce story ..
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:21:02 -0700
Actually the real question is what they will do when gas
costs over $10 per gallon.
As long as it is 'only' $4 (will be this summer) or $5 per gal
(I am quite sure we will be used to that before summer 08 ends)
then people can still manage by shaving a little off their
unnecessary trips, spend a bit more of the household budget
on gas - but see it go over $10 (I expect we will get close
to that in the summer of 2010) and many will no longer be
able to afford their commute when they drive 70 miles or more
each way in a 14 MPG vehicle (numbers from just one of my
colleages, who recently found out that offered Prius with
carpool lane stickers have $4000 higher value than without
in California; he also finds that every Prius he calls after
is already sold before he picks up the phone to inquire.)
Since his commute consumes now 10 gallons/day, he pays
$680 per month for gas to commute. ($3.25 per gal regular gas)
so 'only' a few days each month his work goes towards paying
for gas. Once it hits $10/gal he will be working half his time
just to pay for the gas to commute... That won't last long.
But that means that a lot of people can't afford their homes
and distance to work any more.
So a large-scale change in housing is required (living closer
to work).
Even if battery technology would not be progressing at all in
the few years it will take to get to this point, then the
choice between $1 per mile in gas cost or $0.03 per mile in
electricity ($0.12 with battery depreciation) will not be
a hard choice at all.
One dollar per mile for gas cost sounds a bit high to me, Cor.
Even at $10.00/gallon, you would need a car that gets 10 MPG to drive the
cost that high. There are lots of good cars that get 40MPG (even cheap ones
like my Echo), so you would end up at 25 cents/mile. I can't think of many
good reasons to commute long distances in a 10 MPG vehicle with a single
occupant.
As gas gets more expensive, I hope that some people ( the smart ones, at
least) will give up their 6000# SUVs, and maybe think about living less than
100 miles from where they work. People may also make some kind of effort
to carpool, even if it isn't as convenient.
For these reasons, I see increased gas prices as a good thing. I have no
sympathy for anyone who uses 10 gallons of gas a day to commute.
Phil
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK admit it. If you have ever ridden in John Waylands Blue Meanie you
walked away from the experience wishing that car was yours didn't you?
Well, I am finally doing something about my own Blue Meanie envy. My son
Mike and I are building an EV Datsun truck. After fiddling with a bunch of
different ideas in my head, I think I finally have a game plan in mind, so
any input is welcome.
The first item of business is to make the truck nice. The body is fairly
straight, but it needs some minor work and paint, I also need to pull the
bed and get the frame all prettied up. Fortunately when I contacted an old
friend who does car restores and custom builds for people the answers
were... Yes I am familiar with those trucks, I own one right now that I am
turning into a show truck and have owned several in the past. Yes, I have
shop space, I have a big ole shop out by the fairgrounds. How much $$$,
well that depends, did you want me to do the work or do you and the boy want
to come out and work along side me... The conversation couldn't have went
better, and he is coming by tonight to have an initial look.
The way I see it, once the truck is taken care of this becomes a long term
project and the electrics can evolve over time. How many years has John had
Blue Meanie and how many different configurations has it lived through.
So here is what I have finally settled on for my first incarnation. Like
every backyard EV project, I have weighed a variety of factors... budget,
parts I have on hand, safety, and what I know how to work with.
The motor is going to be the 6.7 inch ADC we just built with Jim Husted.
It's a little on the small side, but I believe it will be adequate. It has
8 big beefy brushes and we pressed in a nice fat new shaft. Also Jim is
fabbing us a brush ring with a cooling port so we can force air through it
if necessary. I have already contacted Rod Hower to get an idea about what
kind of blowers would be available, and he showed me some models that look
like just what we will need.
I have been toying with the idea of a contactor controller. I even have all
the parts sitting in my garage to build a pretty beefy rectactor, but I just
can't bring myself to do it; primarily because it is my son that is going to
be driving it so I'd rather provide him the smooth adjustable speed of a
modern PWM controller. So for now I think I am going to start with a 72
volt 450 amp Alltrax controller.
As far as controllers go, what I really want is what everbody really
wants... a Zilla, but the wait is just too long. So for now I will go with
what seems to be the most afforadable controller that I believe will give me
adequate performance. Another reason for this choice is because this
controller would make a nice upgrade for my motorcycle if we ever to end up
throwing in a Zilla. I believe that 72 volts at 450 amps will give us
reasonable performance, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if this is enough to
out accelerate and out speed the current gas engine. If it's been a while
since you drove one of these old Datsuns, you might be surprised at how much
more powerful vehicles have become.
How about a pot box? The easy answer is the Curtis, but everyone hates
those things because they are unreliable. I followed closely the recent
thread about throttle position sensors on modern cars. These seem ideal
since they are designed to live under the hood, but I'm not smart enough to
figure out which one I should get. I don't even care about finding one at a
junk yard. I'll pay for a brand new one, if someone can point me in the
direction of one that will register the proper 0 - 5K ohms range the
controller is going to be looking for.
For batteries, I have a little over 200 BB600s on hand. I will probably
start with 2 72+ volt strings which I think should provide a solid 20 miles
range and weigh about 400 lbs.
For charging I will probably pick up two more of the Shumacher SE 1072
chargers. I'll have to test the one I have on a 72 volt string of BB600s
and see how I like it. It works well on the 54 volt string in my
motorcycle.
I'm think of skipping the DC to DC, but building a higher voltage BB600
house battery. I'll slip in a few extra cells which should give me nice
bright lights until the NiCads poop out. I'm betting though that the
traction pack will poop out long before the house battery.
For safety, I want a main fuse, a reliable main contactor, and a Heinemann
circuit breaker. After all, it's tough to replace a son.
I have on hand an SW-180 contactor out of a forklift, and 4 big open frame
GE contactors with contacts about the size of nickels, but the sticker on
them says 200 amps. Should I get something beefier for a main contactor, or
does one of these sound like enough? I am only planning 72 volts and 450
amps. I will be leaving in the clutch as a last line of saftey.
That's the basics. I'm hoping to have it all done in time to participate
(as a spectator) in the Wayland Invitational in July. Since there is two of
us working on it, and one of us has lots of free time on his hands, I think
it should be doable.
If you are in the Portland area, and interested in being part of the birth
of a new EV get in touch. We can use all the help we can get.
For the first time in a long time, I do not have a 2nd Thursday of the month
conflict, so I may even start attending the OEVA meetings again.
feel free to comment
Damon
Oh, and just so everyone is clear on this. This is MY truck. Mike gets to
help build it and use it like it is his own over the next couple of years,
but it is MY truck. Got it :-)
_________________________________________________________________
Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year.
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--- Begin Message ---
> http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html
I really like their concept, but have something else stuck in my mind's
eye that I just can't seem to wash out. :p I think I can DIY myself and
slide in under cost, with better speed abilities.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well first of all, get thee hence to American Science and Surplus!
They have so many motors and such for cheap, you'll have trouble
picking one out.
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=18&category=172
Look for the 'Mabuchi motor'. for $3.50 you can't go wrong.
Or here
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=18&category=169
for cheap, C-Frame 110V AC motors.
You can make a very inexpensive pump without an impeller. Lookup
'Tesla Pump' online for details.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Watching the Zivan closer, the voltage rises to 191 Volts in Yellow mode
and hasn't raised higher. (for a 156 Volt T-125 pack)
It used to rise to 205 Volts (or thereabouts) before going to float. THe
only thing that has changed in the last day is the weather staying
consistently warmer.
is this a temperature compensation issue?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY
Happened twice,
My Zivan NG-3 goes through Red and yellow phase. In the green (Float)
phase, the light blinks and the cooling fan continues to run.
Instead of the expected Float voltage of 172 V at 0.2 Amps, the Zivan is at
169.5 V and 0.8 Amps
This happened on 2 occasions. (the first occasion occured for 4 hours
without reaching 172)
Battery fluid level is good. No unexpected voltage sags or range loss while
driving.
Presently I'm testing the Zivan without the temperature Probe
I'll also call Greg
Any thoughts,
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might want to talk with Keith Vansickle who is building a high
speed variant of the BugE. Search the list for "lightning bug" from
April 23 for more details.
Brian
On 4/25/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html
I really like their concept, but have something else stuck in my mind's
eye that I just can't seem to wash out. :p I think I can DIY myself and
slide in under cost, with better speed abilities.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy Burleson wrote:
I'm all for having such doo-dads and luxuries as OPTIONS, but
changing the REQUIREMENTS just adds more complication and expense
to transportation that is already IMHO over-burdened.
Everything depends on how the regulations are written.
Badly written regulations are common. Many are written by unimaginative
bureaucrats that don't understand the technology. The worst of them are
actually written by companies or lobbyists to help their sales, and
given to legislators (with generous campaign contributions) to become
"the law".
A bad regulation specifies *how* you have to meet the standard. It
assumes the status quo; today's materials and construction methods. It
doesn't give performance standards.
A good standard specifies the *result* or *performance* that they are
trying to achieve, but not the method to achieve it. This leaves the
door open to new and creative solutions. Ideally, the spec is concisely
worded, so measuring whether or not you meet it is easy and straightforward.
This type of performance standard is easier for either a large or small
manufacturer to comply with.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
childreypa wrote:
That third type is really interesting. I wonder... I think salt water
would be to corrosive, even with an additive. Do you know of any decent
heat transfer fluids this would work for? Or maybe an additive?
Mercury works great, if you don't have any leaks :-)
I think there's hope for using a ferrofluid (oil with iron particles in it).
It would be interesting to see a "pump" with no moving parts except the
fluid itself.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Watching the Zivan closer, the voltage rises to 191 Volts in
> Yellow mode and hasn't raised higher. (for a 156 Volt T-125 pack)
>
> It used to rise to 205 Volts (or thereabouts) before going to
> float. THe only thing that has changed in the last day is the
> weather staying consistently warmer.
>
> is this a temperature compensation issue?
It's been awhile since I used a Zivan; what is the yellow mode, the
first (constant current) step, or the seconds (constant voltage) step?
191V is 2.45V/cell, which is about right for temperatures around 26-27C
(80F).
205V is 1.63V/cell, which is about right for temperatures 36C *cooler*;
are your batteries 36C (64-65F) warmer than they were a few days ago?
It certainly sounds like temperature compensation (at least the voltage
change is in the right direction for warmer temperatures), but obviously
it can only be so if you had the temperature sensor attahced for both
charge cycles (I thought you mentioned you were testing without the
sensor...).
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Very nice!
On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Check out this little piece I put up on you tube.
Gadget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhywPK7Vz0
visit my websites at
reverendgadget.com,
leftcoastelectric.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I remember Texas used to require headlight aim to be checked at
inspection time. There was this optical rig.
They rescinded that requirement, like back in the 80's. I saw the
documentation on the department's reasoning. Turns out they surveyed
inspection stations and found that an abnormally high number of cars
coming in were failed for headlight aim, which they can charge to fix on
the spot. Covert testing showed a majority of cars brought in with
perfect aim were being failed.
Huh. There were apparently "good old days" where government was
sensitive to people being scammed and did something about it. And IIRC
the cost to adjust the headlight was like $8, pretty trivial by today's
standard of "getting scammed". Bet if that decision was made today,
they'd make a "headlight adjustment fee" a mandatory part of the
inspection whether you needed it or not- just to be fair.
Actually you can get blinded because somebody loaded the trunk with
camping gear. The car will tilt back a few degrees. We loaded the crap
out of a sedan once and people on the highway were flashing their
brights at me to tell me to dim my brights- but they weren't even on.
Danny
Martin Winlow wrote:
Crikey! Sorry I suggested it in the first place.
Personally, I think Victor has the right angle on this subject.
However, I would go one step further and suggest that the reason glare from
headlights (of all types) has become such an annoyance is that nowadays, so
many vehicles have the option, built-in, to adjust the angle of their
headlamps at the flick of a switch. So if your vehicle is heavily loaded
(esp. in the back, which causes the lamp beam angle to rise) you can lower
the beams so they don't cause dazzle to the road-user(s) in front.
The problem is, of course, people being people, they either can't be
bothered to adjust their beams, don't know about it in the first place or
don't know where the switch is (rentals?).
I use, as a rule of thumb, that your dipped beams shouldn't get over the top
of the boot lid of the vehicle in front. That way it should not be possible
for your head lights to cause problems.
What's the answer? Self levelling lamps. I gather they are out there but
as ever, it will be a while before they become mainstream let alone
standard.
Last point - in the UK causing unnecessary dazzle or glare from your lamps
(front or rear) is a specific traffic offence. Unfortunately the Gov has
been paring down the number of traffic police to point of being extinct. The
local police are far to busy dealing with domestic incidents and such to
bother with enforcing any but the most serious traffic legislation. As a
consequence, it has been estimated that up to 20% of drivers in some parts
of London are uninsured and have no drivers licence!
Hey, ho!
MW
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: 24 April 2007 12:50
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: LED headlight bulbs?
Michael,
You might consider HID (High Intensity Discharge) headlamp bulb
replacement
kits (AKA 'Xenon'). They cut the power used by the headlights in half
and
produce a much better (brighter and more suited to human eyes) lighting
effect.
Who says that??!!! I HATE them, because they half-blind me! Maybe they are
just mis-aligned, but I wish they would be BANNED!
Right on, Joe!! I don't understand WHY they aren't. Usually on a
obnoxious SUV, rides 3 feet off your bumper 20 MORE over the speed limit.
Godamn lights are SO high that they blast your mirror to the point you twist
it away!
Maybe a Landing light setup YOU could turn on? Locomotive headlights? to
BLAST the guy back a bit? Except YOU are making a road hazard WORSE! These
guyz are enough of a hazard when they CAN see! The'll be diddling with their
radio, talking on the cell fone, reading a book/paper! I have scene this!
So to put these lights on YOUR vehicle you only make it worse out there.
Hell! You don't go that fast you need them, in an EV!
My two lumins worth
Bob>
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--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
is there really such a motor being sold commercially ?
if yes, for what purpose ?
I've seen mercury motors as laboratory demonstrations, and sometimes
used in the lab for vacuum pumps where the flowing mercury carries
bubbles of air out of a sealed chamber. There are also versions for wave
soldering machines that use them to pump the molten solder.
I read about an oil pump for industrial equipment that used ferrofluid.
I don't know if it was a commercial product, or just someone "fishing"
for a market for their invention.
There are some small scientific and medical devices that pump various
fluids that have a high salt content.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon-
The Alltrax throttle sensor config is programmable. It even has a setting
for an ITS (inductive throttle sensor). I'm using an EZ-GO ITS, which works
fine, but it's about $90 for the inductive sensor plus the magnetic core.
Far West Golf on Columbia Blvd in Portland has them. Totally
non-contacting, the sensor will never wear out.
I'm sure you can configure the Alltrax for a standard throttle pot hooked up
to 5v, either 0-5v or 5-0v config.
-Myles
-Damon asked:
How about a pot box? The easy answer is the Curtis, but everyone hates
those things because they are unreliable. I followed closely the recent
thread about throttle position sensors on modern cars. These seem ideal
since they are designed to live under the hood, but I'm not smart enough to
figure out which one I should get. I don't even care about finding one at a
junk yard. I'll pay for a brand new one, if someone can point me in the
direction of one that will register the proper 0 - 5K ohms range the
controller is going to be looking for.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Is this going to based around an RQRiley plan?
No, though I really like his designs -- I'm just confident about getting
a good result from the fiberglass over foam construction. I know 'glass
well enough, but coming up with a symmetrical foam underlayment seems
difficult.
> Just curious as to what sort of three wheeler you
> are going to build. Tadpole or trike?
Taildragger/tadpole/2f1r. Two seats, three wheels, and no doors,
windows, or roof.
> Neat project idea! :)
Thanks! :D
> The ADC is obviously the first choice because of
> price/power ratio...
Especially for a first-timer, trying to prove out feasibility.
> ... but if you wanted to spring a bit more cash you could get the
larger
> LEMCO motor, save a bit of weight, have more efficiency, and get
Regen.
I'd be willing to stretch that far, if the motor were perfect.... Would
the LEM-170 be the best fit of LEMCO offerings? I'm looking around right
now on the net for other DC efficiency ratings...
LEMCO's light weight looks good, but all of their graphs just show
limited-range RPM windows. http://www.lemcoltd.com/lem_170.htm Will this
work full-range in EV use?
Randii
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Newbie here, humbly begging knowledge so as not to make expensive mistakes.
I'm starting with a 1978 Jeep CJ-7 frame (new replacement), fiberglass body
and 2 wheel drive. Right now, with the frame, springs, axles and body I'm
at 1550 lbs. I'm expecting it to come in around 2000 without batteries and
motor (a stock, all steel CJ-7 4 wheel drive with an iron 6 cylinder was
about 2650). GVWR on a CJ-7 with the heavy duty option is around 4300, so
weight capacity should be no problem. I'm planning on using a 3 speed auto
trans (Turbo 350, no overdrive) without a converter for rotational mass and
weight reduction. First gear is around 2.5 to 1. The rear end in a Jeep
can easily be changed to almost anything. Frontal area is pretty small (old
Jeeps are narrow), but cd stinks.
Goal is 26 mile range minimum, 45 miles would be nice, around the suburbs.
0-60 time around 8 seconds when I'm in a hurry. Significant highway use
unlikely, very limited use over 50 MPH. Elevation changes here in northeast
Illinois are limited to about 30 feet within battery range, unless I go
climbing garbage dump ski hills, so climbing grades isn't a biggie.
As I'm trying to learn from this, let me list my logic, please critique me.
Pleeze?
Size the motor for the expected steady state requirements, maybe 30 HP for
occasional highway speeds (being a little generous). Maybe ADC or WarP 9"
at 120 volts? Or should I go 8" and save the weight? I'm assuming a larger
motor would primarily get me more sustained top speed capability more than
anything, which I don't need.
Set the rear end gearing for 3500 RPM @ 65MPH for a 9" or 4000 RPM @ 65MPH
for an 8"? I'm guessing (haven't done the math yet) that's around 3.93 to
4.56 axle gearing, common Jeep stuff.
Choose a controller to achieve desired acceleration (maybe the Curtis 550A
120 volt model)? I'm guessing this could come up short of the desired
acceleration, but I'd rather not pay for a 1K amp+ controller if I can help
it.
Batteries? Suggestions needed. Would 15 8 volt batteries, resulting in a
vehicle weight of around 3250, get me the performance I'm looking for? What
would 24 6 volt batteries get me, besides a 4000 lb vehicle, and maybe
require the 9" motor just to move it?
Now, has anybody messed with bypassing the controller with a contacter with
a current limiting resistance for a sort of a "passing gear" effect? I
figure beyond 500 amps, I don't need fine control, more like a Nitrous blast
effect, to teach the Mustang owners a thing or two about electrics :).
I've been seeing fairly radical differences in acceleration numbers for cars
with similar motors and battery voltages, and I'm trying to avoid
dissapointment. Are some people a bit slower because they are using 400 amp
controllers, and/or insufficient gear reduction (torque multiplication) to
move all those batteries, or am I just dreaming that sporty car performance
can be had with anything less than dual motors and a 2k amp controller?
Thanks in advance,
Marty
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That sounds like a possible option, however, I don't think it will work with
a Zilla if/when I upgrade someday, which would put me right back in the same
spot. Still, I would rather spend $90 on something totally reliable then
the same amount on something so many seem to have had problems with.
How does this work? Is it something you hook a standard throttle cable to?
I googled and found a few pictures, but could not clearly see how it is
used.
damon
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Fixin my Blue Meanie envy
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:52:27 -0700
Damon-
The Alltrax throttle sensor config is programmable. It even has a setting
for an ITS (inductive throttle sensor). I'm using an EZ-GO ITS, which
works
fine, but it's about $90 for the inductive sensor plus the magnetic core.
Far West Golf on Columbia Blvd in Portland has them. Totally
non-contacting, the sensor will never wear out.
I'm sure you can configure the Alltrax for a standard throttle pot hooked
up
to 5v, either 0-5v or 5-0v config.
-Myles
-Damon asked:
How about a pot box? The easy answer is the Curtis, but everyone hates
those things because they are unreliable. I followed closely the recent
thread about throttle position sensors on modern cars. These seem ideal
since they are designed to live under the hood, but I'm not smart enough to
figure out which one I should get. I don't even care about finding one at
a
junk yard. I'll pay for a brand new one, if someone can point me in the
direction of one that will register the proper 0 - 5K ohms range the
controller is going to be looking for.
_________________________________________________________________
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I think there are on some high end models.
I saw notes of a new regulation in USA that if you have HIDs or any
headlight over a certain amount of lumens, you have to either have one
of those tiny headlight wipers or a sprayer to clean them built in.
Dirt on the headlight was apparently diverting light outside the
intended beam pattern (glare).
Curious that they chose the expensive solution available only on
high-end cars, rather than simply allowing people to clean them which
probably is far more effective than a sprayer. You could say that
people aren't cleaning them like they should, that may be true but
putting on a mechanical cleaner doesn't necessarily mean they'll use it
either.
Danny
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
However, I would go one step further and suggest that the reason glare
from
headlights (of all types) has become such an annoyance is that nowadays,
so
many vehicles have the option, built-in, to adjust the angle of their
headlamps at the flick of a switch.
I've seen this on cars in Europe. However, I've never seen it in a car in
the US. As much as we are gadget geeks over here, the only reason I can
think of for there absence is that it's not legal.
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The coil assembly gets bolted to a base.
The ferromagnetic powder slug must be connected to your throttle any which
way makes sense. You can even make your own slug. I used a cutoff bolt for
awhile, but found that the max duty cycle wasn't adequate.
In my case, I screwed the moving ferromagnetic slug into a wooden dowel,
which is attached to my throttle. I'm sure there're a million ways to make
this work.
Having said all this, it's a lot more work than adapting an automotive TPS
or a curtis throttle pot.
-Myles
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:15 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Fixin my Blue Meanie envy
That sounds like a possible option, however, I don't think it will work with
a Zilla if/when I upgrade someday, which would put me right back in the same
spot. Still, I would rather spend $90 on something totally reliable then
the same amount on something so many seem to have had problems with.
How does this work? Is it something you hook a standard throttle cable to?
I googled and found a few pictures, but could not clearly see how it is
used.
damon
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On 4/25/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is this going to based around an RQRiley plan?
No, though I really like his designs -- I'm just confident about getting
a good result from the fiberglass over foam construction. I know 'glass
well enough, but coming up with a symmetrical foam underlayment seems
difficult.
oof. I hear you there.. I might be ordering a set of TriMuter plans
just to see how he specifies the measurements. If its lofting, then I
can handle that no sweat.
> Just curious as to what sort of three wheeler you
> are going to build. Tadpole or trike?
Taildragger/tadpole/2f1r. Two seats, three wheels, and no doors,
windows, or roof.
> Neat project idea! :)
Thanks! :D
You could use the TriMagnum idea .. using a motorcycle back end and a
car front end, welded together and braced.
> The ADC is obviously the first choice because of
> price/power ratio...
Especially for a first-timer, trying to prove out feasibility.
> ... but if you wanted to spring a bit more cash you could get the
larger
> LEMCO motor, save a bit of weight, have more efficiency, and get
Regen.
I'd be willing to stretch that far, if the motor were perfect.... Would
the LEM-170 be the best fit of LEMCO offerings? I'm looking around right
now on the net for other DC efficiency ratings...
LEMCO's light weight looks good, but all of their graphs just show
limited-range RPM windows. http://www.lemcoltd.com/lem_170.htm Will this
work full-range in EV use?
Good question. If you look at the torque curves that evparts supplies
for the big one, it -does- seem to have the juice to get you there
though, upwards of 16hp. This one:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt5115/008-200-60V.gif
That's @ 60v, the top end. And it looks to be able to go to 4000RPM
no problem.. which is plenty of RPM for highway speeds. Just tailor
the tire, gears and chain to match your expectations :) Its rated for
100A continous, and looking at the various Torque graphs, that means
you should be able to maintain highway speeds no problem, given light
weight and aerodynamic forms.
BUT.. I don't have any direct experience with these guys. You may want
to ask the evparts folks (*wave*) about the LEMCO's suitability for
your project. There may be some hidden bugaboo I am not seeing. Also,
you'll be paying $1200 more for it than the ADC one, so you'll have to
decide if that is worth regen and about 30lbs of weight.
--T
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We're not screwed-we're right where we need to be. There's just work to
do.
The EV Racing group here has made some great progress in giving EV's
some well-deserved positive publicity, but when someone reads Car and
Driver and says "Cool! Where can I get one?, all we have for an
answer right now is Lookie what WE can do!
Big Corporations, who hold the necessary infrastructure (EV1 as proof),
aren't going to answer the question Where can I get one? right now.
Additionally, the jury is still out on energy sources and
cost-competitive high performance energy storage as well.
If a product or technology hatches from the protective shell of R&D
before it's ready, it's chances for survival in the marketplace are
reduced. A huge cross section of this society has been conditioned to
buy things that give them instant gratification (not hard to do with
EV's). If the product falls short of that raised expectation in a
short period of time, the public mindset associates a magnified
negativity with it.
Electric propulsion systems are a very mature technology, with ongoing
improvements and updates like any technology. The knowledge base
exists within this forum to establish standards by which ice to plug-in
conversions could be performed. Hopefully the proverbial "missing link"
of affordable high performance energy storage will enter and remain in
the open marketplace to catalyze the proliferation of EV's.
Information travels at the speed of light and weighs nothing. The point
I am trying to make, is that as an alternative to mass production, how
about the organized establishment and distribution of technical
conversion standards (kits?), then have a network of allied conversion
shops that adhere to those standards? Less hulks in the junk yard,
less new cars from the dealer (Aww, poor GM. They'll have to do
something about that now, won't they?). Another great thing about
conversions is that you already have a licensable street legal frame,
and as long as it meets emissions standards (oh, now that's tough for
electric) and can sustain the speed limit on the highway, the state
shouldn't care how it's powered, as long as you keep the nuclear
reactor well hidden :-).
Does an organized alliance of independent shops (conversions or custom
builds) sound like a viable solution to any of you? Right now it would
likely make only a small dent in the consumer automotive market, but
when gas spikes, those few who are free of it will be envied by those
who aren't. People who don't listen to environmental concerns WILL
listen to the sound of dollars disappearing from their wallet. They
won't be able to ignore the satisfaction expressed by EV owners either.
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