EV Digest 6702
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Off topic too often
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: A123 Hiring
by Marcin Ciosek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lithium Iron phosphate with BMS
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV conversion business model (was: YouTube video)
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Financing a conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: [EV] RE: We're screwed. NIce story ..
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Lithium Iron phosphate with BMS
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric truck project.
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Gear Vendors Overdrive worth it in an EV?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Gear Vendors Overdrive worth it in an EV?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: [EV] RE: We're screwed. NIce story ..
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Linear motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV conversion business model (was: YouTube video)
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: White Zombie at 720 Volts
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Electrical connections
by Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Raptur 600 Hookitup!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Breaking in a new pack
by "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) wanted: small controller
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Let's try to keep the EVDL focused on EVs, please.
amen !
i have been guilty too .. will rectify .. thanks for being
a kind moderator ;-)
..peekay
(i HAVE started getting a few off the list emails .. better that way
to pursue the lines of enquiry on some subjects)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank wrote -
> How can I attach it, and have it liftto access the
> batteries underneath the bed -
> I'm concerned about mounting it on theback, then when
On our website, www.TEVA2.com, on the projects page, scroll down to Mark
Brueggemann's S-10 Bed Lift Details.
Check it out, it might give you just want you want or at least some ideas.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
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I'm on it :D
I'll do anything to get a decent job in real industry that is willing to use
my education, knowledge and experience at battery field.
Thanks for a tip..
Marcin
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--- Begin Message ---
Yup, I see a lot of companies mentioning similar prices for the high
energy style. That is why I am hopeful the hi-power will also come done
sharply and soon. It is also why I am keeping an Eye on those few
companies that do both hi-energy and hi-power.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Like I said, once we figured it out, it was sweet. No
motor idle. From a stop, it was just like direct
drive with 1st gear ratio. Instant torque. Wheel
spin if you wanted it. Completely controllable.
Was an old GM hydromatic 3 speed from junk yard, out
of a Cutlas, I think. Used a modified induction
motor. A lot of mods to mechanical motor mount. Had
a higher ratio chain and sprocket made for motor
shaft. Were able to run motor to 10,000 RPM. Redid
the valve body and eliminated auto shift so driver
just pushed lever to shift when he wanted without
lifting right foot.
Kept burning band clutch on the 2nd gear set. Finally
figured out that regen was the problem. Reverse
torque on the band was like pushing a rope even though
rotation was correct. Went to regen in 3rd only and
never rebuilt the thing after that. And there was a
100 other little issues to work out.
We just used it on the race track, but the concept was
valid and could have gone to the street.
Jeff
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Major wrote:
>
> > one years ago without the torque converter and had
> to
> > do a lot of extra work because there was an
> internal
> > pump you lose without the idling motor. We went
> to an
> > external pump, but it took a lot of trial and
> error to
> > get it right. Once there it was sweet.
>
> What was it like with no converter? When you
> applied the throttle,
> did it act like normal or lag or lurch? Was it
> streetable/tolerable?
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
While I was home on vaca in Florida, I too was wondering exactly how to
finance a business in converting electric cars. My uncle has a master's in
business and would help me but I didn't get into the subject with him (yet).
Consider this: The first thing you have to do is target a customer base.
That's more complex than it sounds. Who would you try to sell electric cars
to? I've already seen the "niche" conversion people that swap out Porsche
and Ferrari drive trains for $80-$100k. They cater towards the socially
conscious wealthy. I don't think we need anymore of those.
Target the middle class driving masses? Maybe that's not such a good idea
yet. They can still afford their Ford Excursions and Yukons and afford to
fuel them, they just complain about it. I haven't met many middle class
people willing to deal with the range limitation or give up driving around
their "Texas Cadillacs". At least, not on the East Coast.
I had an idea about targeting lower-middle class income people. Why? Because
current gas prices really do present a budget problem for them right now.
Because people like this often buy "beater" ICE's that are the dirtiest in
our fleet, break down often resulting in expensive repairs. Assuming they
could afford a "budget" EV conversion, this demographic would profit the
most from ownership in terms of reduced fuel and maintenance costs. It's
just getting them into one that's the challenge.
Now, what do I mean by "budget" EV? I mean used but clean, structurally
sound, 10-20 year old cars that are lacking in frills like A/C, CD player,
power windows etc. I'm talking about the kind of vehicles we are building
right here....Beetles, Metros, older Rangers and S-10's, Escorts etc. And
yes, converting the buyer's own donor chassis (subject to my company's
safety inspection) would be an option.
Consider: Electro Automotive's basic kit is $5k.
KTA kits suitable for highway capable cars are $5k and up.
CAN EV is a little pricey at $9k.
Let's say I make one of them my supplier and get some kind of bulk purchase
discount (5%?), OR I go the harder route and secure all of my supplies
myself individually from the various companies and get bulk discounts from
them -maybe- reducing costs further, (8%?) That's $4500-$4100 for a kit.
$1200 for batteries.
So let's say a married guy with 1.5 kids drives up to my shop in his old
compact pickup with a dying ICE engine. His wife drives the "nicer" car to
work every day. He sits down with my "sales associate" to determine his
driving requirements. It turns out that his commute is 17 miles, mixed
driving, one way. He'll check with his boss about charging up at work and
we'll assume for now that he can. We inspect his truck and the frame and
body are straight. Transmission is in fair shape. Body has minimal rust. We
can convert him for $5700, not including labor.
I'm no business major. In the theoretical situation above, I run into some
variables I can't account for:
1. Labor. I have no idea how to quantify this. At first I believe I'll have
0-1 employees.
2. Overhead. I've no idea what my shop rent will cost. I already have a
large array of tools (including my own air tools and compressor) but I'm
sure I'll need a few more.
3. Profit. Some percentage of profit is required to provide for growth.
Let's just say a very gross, rough estimate to convert his vehicle is $8-9k.
That's within many people's grasp. Financing is definitely an issue. I'm not
going to finance anyone but there has to be a way to get some kind of loan
through a bank.
I dunno...maybe the best way to go about this is to be an "auto recycler",
converting cars that people own vs. buying donors, converting them and
selling them.
What do you guys think?
Rich A.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(The original subject seems inappropriate for this discussion so I changed
it. I suspect the topic is off-topic for this group. If so, David will let
us know.)
Ryan> I was thinking more along the lines of a person provides the
Ryan> vehicle to be converted, and the needed components
Ryan> installed(motor/controller/charger/batteries) and the monthly
Ryan> payments to pay off the conversion items.
Ryan> Can some sort of small loan be taken out from a bank to purchase
Ryan> the needed conversion items?
Ryan> Buy a new car for ~$16,000 or create an electric for ~$8,000? I
Ryan> walk in the bank and say "I need a loan for $8,000" and they say
Ryan> "what for"? What's the valid reason that will land the loan?
I don't think the bank will care too much what you plan to do with the
money. All they want is that the loan be secured with a valuable enough
asset so they can get their money back should you default. Heck, if you
need a loan for less than $10,000 you might be able to swing it with a
credit card. ;-) 401k plans often allow you to borrow money against them.
Since you're borrowing from yourself, you have the advantage that the
interest you pay also goes to you. Then of course there are home equity
loans.
Ryan> What would the monthly payment be on a small bank loan?
Your question is underconstrained. There are enough variables (loan amount,
term, interest rate) that there isn't one correct answer. Here's a loan
rate calculator:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/popcalc2.asp
Punch in some numbers.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
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--- Begin Message ---
>> As gas gets more expensive, I hope that some people ( the smart ones,
>> at least) will give up their 6000# SUVs, and maybe think about living
>> less than 100 miles from where they work. People may also make some
>> kind of effort to carpool, even if it isn't as convenient.
Eduardo> I moved closer when I starded spending US$100 a week on gas. I
Eduardo> used to drive 60 miles a day. I now live 5 miles from work. I
Eduardo> still drive only because I need to go visit clients. If I am
Eduardo> certain I'll be in my desk all day I take the bus or a taxi.
Where I live (Chicago area), people are still moving further out from the
city because house prices are "too high" closer in. They never seem to
factor in the cost of their longer commute. Of course, neither do the banks
making the loans on their houses.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:34:40 -0400, "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wait a sec....
>
> if they mean $2/AH for the base 50AH pack, thats $100 per cell. So
> you're talking base cost of about $9k/15kWh, plus shipping.
>
> Now that is very interesting :) that's $0.60 Wh and the total weight
> and space is pretty low.
>
> --T
Plus Shipping from China?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> From: "Elia Tarasoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I've got a 1993 Ford Explorer I can use. (it's almost dead :)
> The only problem besides the extreme weight is that its an automatic.
>
could replace with standard and go clutchless , so no peddle is needed , this
part is easy
> I was thinking I could take out the transmission altogether.
>
you'll need a bigger motor and controller along with at least $350 worth of
contactors , so the tranny can save you 2k or more .
> The performance I want isn't that much (until I get more
> time/money/experience for EV):
then get a standard tranny
> - 100 km/h max speed
1k 156 zilla wll do this
> - 60-80 km range
> - spend less than $10000 CAD
>
golf cart batteries will do this and the zilla could handle 26 of them
> Is this possible?
Yes
> I think I could do it, since I have lots of room for batteries.
I have 40 golf cart batteries in my pu and its smaller than the ranger .
> There's also a few shops in town which specialize in industrial strength AC
> motors.
Stick with what everbody else is doing , the motor is less that %20 of the
costs ,so saving on this will cost you big in the proformance end .
> (So very much cheaper than ones I've seen advertized as specific to EV.)
> The hardest part I think would be to convert battery power to something the
> motor can use.
yes you'll spend alot there ,
>
> I'd prefer to not use a kit, since that'd up the cost significantly. :/
>
Ya the kits are for people who want to " get her done " and have supper nice
job when there finnished ,,, :-) , If you can weld than making the battery
boxes is not a problem and you can have as many batteries as you like .
Steve Clunn www.grassrootsev.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
I have contacted them at one time way back in 1985, for use as a under drive
for my 7000 lb EV which has a 5.57:1 axle. I normally start out in 1st gear
which gives me 19.5:1 overall ratio which I can accelerated keeping or
passing some ICE's while keeping the motor amps at or below 300 amps.
The problem with Gear Vender units, that you need to bring up the rpm to
about 500 rpm so it will start to work. This means you either will have to
start out at the axle ratio (with no transmission) and when you get to 500
rpm, then you can engaged the over drive unit.
This will work fine as a overdrive for a EV, but will not work for me as a
underdrive trying to start out at 1 rpm. They may have something now that
can lock these gears up at a lower rpm.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:38 PM
Subject: Gear Vendors Overdrive worth it in an EV?
> >From what I can tell, it's direct drive(1:1) until the 12 volt
> solenoid is activated drawing 2 amps and then it uses planetary gears
> and some sort of automatic style clutch(I surmise) to enable a .78:1
> overdrive ratio.
>
> This could be installed in the place of the TH400 tail shaft housing
> on the TransWarP 9. Would it even be worth it, useful, or beneficial?
>
> Let's say for example White Zombie had one of these installed. At
> some point going down the track, the device could be activated. Would
> this reduce the 1/4 ET any? Best guess as to how much if so?
>
> http://www.gearvendors.com/installation.html
>
>
> Manual, automatic, GV. I'm looking at about the same price for any of
> the three. Direct drive is nice from a simplicity, cost savings, and
> reduced maintenance(no clutch), and reduced weight point of view.
>
> The automatic(with and without converter) has a whole lot of unknowns.
>
> Choices...
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike and Ryan,
After the 3 speed hydomatic, we went to direct drive
with the Gear Vendors unit. Worked well. Kinda like
driving a 5 speed using 4th and 5th gear only. I
missed the tire burning 1st gear from the 3 spd. But
the 2 spd approach does work. I think the ratio
difference is too narrow. Sometimes it is hard to
tell when you have made the shift.
It uses a friction cone clutch hydraulically actuated
by the 12 volt solenoid valve. Seemed like a high
quality machine. Wish it had come with a .6 to 1
ratio. Also we found you cannot drive it in reverse
in OD, so installed automatic downshift in case of
spinout or forgetful driver. It did handle regen in
both gears.
Jeff
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Way coooool!
> Keep the 4.11's for launch, electric shift to
> parallel, then mechanical shift (electrically) to
> 3rd with a 3.21 final drive ratio.
> Only $2400 for the price code A that fits the TH400
> :-) Plus 35 lbs though:-(
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:39 PM
> > To: EVDL
> > Subject: Gear Vendors Overdrive worth it in an EV?
> >
> >
> > >From what I can tell, it's direct drive(1:1)
> until the 12 volt
> > solenoid is activated drawing 2 amps and then it
> uses planetary gears
> > and some sort of automatic style clutch(I surmise)
> to enable a .78:1
> > overdrive ratio.
> >
> > This could be installed in the place of the TH400
> tail shaft housing
> > on the TransWarP 9. Would it even be worth it,
> useful, or beneficial?
> >
> > Let's say for example White Zombie had one of
> these installed. At
> > some point going down the track, the device could
> be activated. Would
> > this reduce the 1/4 ET any? Best guess as to how
> much if so?
> >
> > http://www.gearvendors.com/installation.html
> >
> >
> > Manual, automatic, GV. I'm looking at about the
> same price for any of
> > the three. Direct drive is nice from a
> simplicity, cost savings, and
> > reduced maintenance(no clutch), and reduced weight
> point of view.
> >
> > The automatic(with and without converter) has a
> whole lot of unknowns.
> >
> > Choices...
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I am sure glad I got that diesel golf before I moved 35 miles from the city.
--T
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--- Begin Message ---
Timothy Balcer wrote:
I wonder if you could 'mix in' ferritic elements to some fluids to
pump them this way, and have them pulled out magnetically while the
fluid was on a gravity downfall (or some other method to break the
pumping chain)? You could make 'rotor pipes' even, not having to have
any of the rotor touching the medium.
You could have loose ball bearings, coated with something to resist
corrosion in the working fluid (water etc.). It would not be hard to
arrange a toroidal path for them to circle in, pushing the fluid as they
go around. An external stator makes them move.
However, I think you'd be better off with a conventional pump impeller
with a magnet in it, with some kind of support bearing. When we used
this type of pump at Kodak (March Pump comes to mind), the main issue
was with that bearing in the liquid. But water is a lot nicer than
photographic chemicals!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Timothy Balcer wrote:
Realizing that linear motors are not as efficient, pound for pound, as
rotory ones...
There is no reason a linear motor can't be just as efficient as a rotary
one. The usual problems are that linear motors aren't *designed* for
efficiency; they're designed for some special purpose application where
linear motion is desired (rail gun, maglev train, conveyor belt).
I wondered.. the problem of saturation... could it be mitigated if
you setup a double action rotory linear array (like an airplane engine)
with, say, 3+ 'pistons' connected to a crankshaft?
Say the 'piston' was a magnetically borne long, permanent magnet, and
was some significant distance away from the shaft itself, and the
whole thing was computer controlled.
It sounds like you're thinking of using solenoids or electromagnets as a
replacement for pistons. This works poorly because the solenoid spends
so much of its time not doing anything useful. Push... wait wait wait...
pull... wait wait wait...
The closest thing to a piston engine in magnetic motors is a switched
reluctance motor. Do some research on them for ideas.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marty Hewes wrote:
I'm starting with a 1978 Jeep CJ-7 frame... fiberglass body...
2 wheel drive. I'm planning on using a 3 speed auto trans
(Turbo 350, no overdrive) without a converter for rotational
mass and weight reduction.
The simplest thing is of course to keep the torque converter. If this
transmission is available with a locking torque converter, that will
pretty much eliminate any losses.
Without a torque converter, an automatic shifts pretty harshly. A friend
converted a Toyota automatic. He removed the torque converter, and just
let the traction motor spin the input shaft and its pump. The result was
that the motor would spin up for half a second until the pump built up
pressure, and then the transmission would engage with a lurch. There was
another substantial lurch each time it shifted. The shifts were pretty
harsh and objectionable. It was best to just leave it in 2nd gear all
the time so it didn't shift so much.
There may be ways to re-valve the transmission to soften its shifting.
It would take some research and experimenting.
The successful EV conversions with automatics that I've heard of either
kept the torque converter, or added an external oil pump for the
transmission.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's actually a lot more involved, depending on how serious you want
to get with the numbers before you launch.
First of all, buying direct from a manufacturer you'll get better than
8% off retail, but you have to be a registered business with $1million
liability insurance and an EIN that is going to resell the part. In
that case, you'll get them for straight wholesale, with bulk discounts
on a sliding scale. Probably you'll have to start out paying cash, and
then over time you'll get terms, which will help a lot if you can plan
your conversions out properly.. you wouldn't have to put the cash out
of your pocket before you did the job.
You also have to factor in plant costs. Rent and maintenance costs.
Remodeling costs. Retooling and tool replacement costs. Upgrade costs.
Basically fixed and capital costs just to stay running, including
utility bills, insurance, loan payments, rental payments, taxes, and
other overhead. Rent is a BIG one, and here is where you have to
balance cost with location and utility.
If you are going to employ people that opens another can. If you do
W2, then you have to hire a payroll service, and you have to decide
how you are going to offer health care. You'll also have to come up
with an employee handbook that they sign off on when you hire them
(that covers your butt for insurance purposes). You'll have to be
careful to meet OSHA requirements as well, for ventilation, materials
handling and safety.
Deciding on wage level is location specific. If you are in outland, KY
you'll pay less than New York, NY. How -much- you pay an individual is
a subjective thing.. your judgment here is the guide, considering you
won't have an army of bean counters to figure out wage levels.
Then... you have to pay -yourself- a wage. Your profits are not your
wage, regardless of how many small businesses break this rule. Don't
ever take down profits personally.. ever. Bad mojo. If things are
going really, really well you could pay yourself a bonus, but by the
numbers is best otherwise you get into very murky ground with the
taxman.
After you have figured all of this out, then you figure out your
maximum capacity for doing business. How many conversions can you do a
week? That is your initial cash flow number. You take your total
expenses and divide that into per week costs, and then you'll have a
break even number on a particular conversion.. in other words, you'll
have the minimum amount you can make per conversion and not be in the
red.
So, if you really really want to do this, I would go after it the
other way around first. The equipment costs are immaterial until you
know what your expenses will be and you determine how much you have to
make in profit in order to stay in the black. THEN you will have
numbers you can use to plan your conversion kits. Personally, I would
also plan on 50% business being my normal amount.. that is how many
can I do per week / 2. You won't be at 100% all the time, so you'll
have to save up money to pay yourself during the lean months.
Obviously there is even more to this.. I would go to the SBA and get
all of their materials. Also check out SCORE and find a mentor who has
been in the 'car fixing' business, which is a decent analog to this.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: White Zombie at 720 Volts
> Imagine for a moment if the 2,000 amp Zilla model had 1200 volt
> internals and the Zombie had it's two strings of 30 in one string of
> 60.
>
> Would there be a performance increase at 720 volts instead of 360?
> Hmmmm? Steel Railroad wheels on it, and a trip East to try Zoombie on
the Long Island Rail Road? They run 700 volts on their 3rd rails! Traction
COULD be an issue, I fear? Getting this by the Train Dispatchers during rush
hour could be tricky<g>!Or trolley poles, a trip to SF, Seattle, Vancouver,
where 600-700 volts DC is just left hanging around for the taking, over the
streets, for the trakless trollies!
Ohm's law in your favor running higher voltages, to a point, though?
600-700 volts DC CAN be nasty stuff!!When I worked in the RR shop and they
would tow a dead MU car in with a flashed over DC traction circuit; You
scraped out the burnt , melted debris and started from scratch! If it didn't
set the whole car merrily on fire!
All kidding aside. You need the punch with 40 ton trolley cars and 20
ton busses, 10 car subway trains, 400 tons, WITHOUT me and my bike aboard!
When you get much heavier on RR's you go Hy voltage AC on the lines, and
transformers to get it down to a reasonable traction voltage, 'round a
thousand, to turn the wheels, AC or DC. Eceptions to EVery rule; Chicago,
North Shore and Milwaukee RR ran 600 volt DC on a 90 mile Chi-Milw. run. The
Electro Liner used to clip that off in 2 hours with many stops! Regulary ran
90 MPH, with Trolley poles and 600 volts! Got great EV grins on this
one!!Other Chicagoland RR's went to 1500 volts DC. The still running South
Shore Line,Illinois Central. I THINK PDX's Max trains are 750 VDC? Works
nice, you KNOW they have good power, going up town by the freeway!
Would be interesting , lets say, that we could get 5 volt or more
Unobtanium cells, and voltage could be anything we like? Would we settle for
a Rav-4 300 or so, or go louder? No. 8 traction cables would be nice,
though?Especially with todaze copper prices!Somebody, like Toyota would
handle all this with elegent finesse, or Tesla, our rising star.You would
hadta grin when ya disconnected a 50 amp Anderson grey plug to your MAIN
traction pack! Trux and busses might go for 600-1000 volts?
Ah! Wishful thinking. Sigh
My two volts worth
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys,
It's me again. Before I get down to the conversion for my bike, I need
to figure out how I should do the wirings first, but I've forgotten most
of what the electricals look like. Haven't had a chance to open up a
bike in 4 years.
Any can show me a picture of how the DC/DC converter, batteries,
controller, ignition, fuses and lights are all connected?
-Henry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roy an" EVetrybody that sent me the prints;
Hooked EVerything up as directed, the other night. NOTHING! I have 3 DCP
controllers and NONE of them came to life. So I must be doing something
wrong? Duh! How can you TEST them on the bench, to be sure they are working
BEFORE putting them in a car? I Found my wiring diagram AFTER posting. It
was UNDER the Rapture sitting on my garage shelf. I had put it there in a
demented attempt at organizing the place!
Other thoughts: IF the throttle plunger isn't FULLY returned in the
housing would THAT cause the controller to just do NOTHING?I mean, wouldn't
the fan start and go off and the line switch pull in, EVen if it wouldn't
power up?
Hooking up a DCP Rapter isn't rocket science.....is it?What ELSE can I
look for? Tony Ascrizzi? I need you!Tony hooked up the last one in about 5
minutes. Sigh!
No Jetta EV Grin...Yet!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Raptur 600 Hookitup!
>
> >You guyz with a DCP Rapture controllers?
> ?Can't seem to find my how -to hookup diagram.
>
> Hi Bob
>
> I found a great diagram here-
> http://www.timnolan.com/etruck/Wiring/ETruck_frame.htm
>
> Linked to from this page-
> http://www.timnolan.com/etruck/Wiring/Wiring.htm
>
> Good Luck!
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
> Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A recent entry talked about breaking in a new battery pack. Since my
conversion won't be up and running for a couple of months, I thought it a
good idea to wait on the battery order (16 x US-125's) until just before
they are needed.
Based upon the "break-in" recommendations, I wonder if it might be a good
idea to get the pack now and rig up some sort of "soft break-in" setup, such
as an electrical heater that won't tax the pack too much.
Would running them through several easy charge/discharge cycles be a good
idea to get them broken in for road use? Any suggestions, recommendations or
experience?
/Roger Daisley, Pullman, WA
Ps: See you at the Wenatchee "PowerUp."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/25/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Timothy Balcer wrote:
> I wonder if you could 'mix in' ferritic elements to some fluids to
> pump them this way, and have them pulled out magnetically while the
> fluid was on a gravity downfall (or some other method to break the
> pumping chain)? You could make 'rotor pipes' even, not having to have
> any of the rotor touching the medium.
You could have loose ball bearings, coated with something to resist
corrosion in the working fluid (water etc.). It would not be hard to
arrange a toroidal path for them to circle in, pushing the fluid as they
go around. An external stator makes them move.
However, I think you'd be better off with a conventional pump impeller
with a magnet in it, with some kind of support bearing.
Well sure it would be -better- in terms of efficiency, but not as
cool! :-) Now my wierd science nerves are tweaked and I am thinking
about ferritic core beads with plastic arm vanes for fluid flow
impulsion... ;)
When we used
this type of pump at Kodak (March Pump comes to mind), the main issue
was with that bearing in the liquid. But water is a lot nicer than
photographic chemicals!
Oof. Tell em about it. I used to develop B&W photographs for myself.
And that wasn't near as bad as the stuff for color!
umm... and EVs use pumps! See? We're not completely off topic.....
*duck*
--Timothy
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
You've probably seen the electric go-cart I'm working on. I just took
it all apart down to the frame yesterday, it needs some finishing,
sand blasting, and painting. It'll look pretty nice when done.
What I'm wondering is if someone has a 48v controller I can buy off of
them? I spent a lot of time getting the mechanics built but I didn't
spend much time on the controller yet. The problem is that I'm likely
leaving school soon and I don't know if I'll be in any place where I
can even keep this thing, so it would be fun to actually be able to
drive it around!
Thanks for any leads.
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey,
I started this and never thought I would get the great ideas everyone
has put out. To relate this to EV's and motors, firstly, are there any
brushless ev motors? Is the electronics that difficult on a large scale?
I mean, they are so simple for a small fan or such. In relation to my
topic, I would have the coils outside the pump and the magnetic rotor
inside with no physical connection through the pump wall (plexiglass
cover for looks). And about the electromagnetic pumps. Fantastic idea.
Could pump ferromagnetic liquid. That stuff is really cool. I have heard
of liquid cooled ev motors but how does this work? Is water used? Or a
dielectric oil? Could a ferromagnet fluid circulate through or around
the motor using the elctromagnetic forces like a pump? Also, some really
interesting stuff is being done to use this fluid in frictionless
bearings? I know this is trying really stretching it to keep it EV
related, but it's such cool tech. it seems like we could find a
practical use for it. There are few forums that I can think of with such
a collection of intelligent people. Not to make anyones head swell, Just
a thought.
Thanks,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Timothy Balcer
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 11:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
On 4/25/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Timothy Balcer wrote:
> > I wonder if you could 'mix in' ferritic elements to some fluids to
> > pump them this way, and have them pulled out magnetically while the
> > fluid was on a gravity downfall (or some other method to break the
> > pumping chain)? You could make 'rotor pipes' even, not having to
have
> > any of the rotor touching the medium.
>
> You could have loose ball bearings, coated with something to resist
> corrosion in the working fluid (water etc.). It would not be hard to
> arrange a toroidal path for them to circle in, pushing the fluid as
they
> go around. An external stator makes them move.
>
> However, I think you'd be better off with a conventional pump impeller
> with a magnet in it, with some kind of support bearing.
Well sure it would be -better- in terms of efficiency, but not as
cool! :-) Now my wierd science nerves are tweaked and I am thinking
about ferritic core beads with plastic arm vanes for fluid flow
impulsion... ;)
>When we used
> this type of pump at Kodak (March Pump comes to mind), the main issue
> was with that bearing in the liquid. But water is a lot nicer than
> photographic chemicals!
Oof. Tell em about it. I used to develop B&W photographs for myself.
And that wasn't near as bad as the stuff for color!
umm... and EVs use pumps! See? We're not completely off topic.....
*duck*
--Timothy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know what you're saying and of course don't like being blinded too.
I agree with you - if the lights illuminate the road according to the
standard but far brighter to be seen by others,
they should not have been allowed, or should be modified to direct
less light toward you while maintaining the same illumination.
I don't quite believe that DOT is not aware of this and just
didn't bother to change standard when started importing cars
with HIDs, that would be too shortsighted, but may be Lee is right.
But if it's DOT's ignorance, then this is whom you should really hate,
not the drivers (who also don't like to be blinded by the lights as
their own, but what they can do about it?)
DOT is the only body that have power and authority to change the
situation. Why blame normal people who wants and choose to drive nice
cars which happen to come with these lights?
I.m afraid you just have to get use to the situation as more and more
mid class cars get this kind of lights as well.
Back in my school days I had "brilliant" idea - to make wind shield
AND front lens glass polarized at 45 degree, say top left to bottom
right. Your own lights illuminate the road as before, but any oncoming
lights get cancelled out by your wind shield filter which will be at
90' against it. 'Course marker lights won't have this and always visible
with separately controlled brightness. Problem solved.
I should apply for the patent (as I wanted 30 years ago :-) ) and
ask DOT to enforce retrofitting millions of existing cars with after
market stick-on polarizing filters (on top of mandating all the world
manufacturers to start polarizing their car glass...)
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
joe wrote:
Yeah, victor - I agree on the gun issue, but not on the lights!!!!!
There are some out there (not all of them on SUV's, either - most of
them that bother me are on smaller cars!) that ought to be banned!
Whether they ar xenon or not, I don't know - all I know is they are
dangerous to oncoming drivers. And that is NOT just my opinion!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
Sorry guys, INHO you are wrong, very wrong. But it's just MHO.
No one will argue that better lit road is worse than worse lit one.
Brighter your light - better you can see.
IF light is adjusted properly, you can't be blinded by it,
xenon or not. If it's high sitting SUV, light must be pointing
steeper down to illuminate *identical*, standard per DOT stretch
of a road. If these SUV's owners don't five a damn about anyone
else and maintain their light's alignment it's not xenon's
technology problem. Hate the guy, not his lights.
May be you also don't like engineers who designed it?
A gun has never killed anyone. It's always a person, you know.
Victor
Bob Rice wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Winlow"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: LED headlight bulbs?
Michael,
You might consider HID (High Intensity Discharge) headlamp bulb
replacement
kits (AKA 'Xenon'). They cut the power used by the headlights in half
and
produce a much better (brighter and more suited to human eyes)
lighting
effect.
Who says that??!!! I HATE them, because they half-blind me! Maybe
they are
just mis-aligned, but I wish they would be BANNED!
Right on, Joe!! I don't understand WHY they aren't. Usually on a
obnoxious SUV, rides 3 feet off your bumper 20 MORE over the speed
limit.
Godamn lights are SO high that they blast your mirror to the point
you twist
it away!
Maybe a Landing light setup YOU could turn on? Locomotive
headlights? to
BLAST the guy back a bit? Except YOU are making a road hazard WORSE!
These
guyz are enough of a hazard when they CAN see! The'll be diddling
with their
radio, talking on the cell fone, reading a book/paper! I have scene
this!
So to put these lights on YOUR vehicle you only make it worse out
there.
Hell! You don't go that fast you need them, in an EV!
My two lumins worth
Bob>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack,
I had a 1962 VW with the factory ragtop. It was a lot of fun. I was
into the air-cooled motors at the time. The ragtop cost a few more
dollars when the car was redone, painted inside and out, and the carpet
replaced. The thin pile carpet went across the floor, up the rear, and
was sewn into the underside of the ragtop. The rear bench seat was
removed. The VW bug has a large following, and fiberglass fenders,
hoods, etc... are available. I liked the looks of the one piece front
end that would tilt up to give access to the front trunk area. Mine was
a Baja bug. The torsion bar rear suspension is somewhat easy to adjust
for ride height with a little experience, and you can weld in an
adjuster for the front end if you need it higher or lower. It may have
the front end done as the ad says 2" lowered all around. Or the front
tube could have been cut and welded permanently to give the 2" lowered
height.
Good luck.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Light EV, controller/motor?
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/318248369.html
I've been REALLY REALLY tempted to get this car and either make it
half-width, or maybe just put a couple rear wheels close together inside
the back (no fenders in back). The chopped top is already cool.
Was thinking of asking the seller if he'll do the half mod for me, as I
don't have room for another car, but I'll guess he just wants it gone.
Jack
Timothy Balcer wrote:
> On 4/25/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> > Is this going to based around an RQRiley plan?
>> No, though I really like his designs -- I'm just confident about
getting
>> a good result from the fiberglass over foam construction. I know
'glass
>> well enough, but coming up with a symmetrical foam underlayment seems
>> difficult.
>
>
> oof. I hear you there.. I might be ordering a set of TriMuter plans
> just to see how he specifies the measurements. If its lofting, then I
> can handle that no sweat.
>
>>
>> > Just curious as to what sort of three wheeler you
>> > are going to build. Tadpole or trike?
>> Taildragger/tadpole/2f1r. Two seats, three wheels, and no doors,
>> windows, or roof.
>>
>> > Neat project idea! :)
>> Thanks! :D
>
>
> You could use the TriMagnum idea .. using a motorcycle back end and a
> car front end, welded together and braced.
>
>>
>> > The ADC is obviously the first choice because of
>> > price/power ratio...
>> Especially for a first-timer, trying to prove out feasibility.
>>
>> > ... but if you wanted to spring a bit more cash you could get the
>> larger
>> > LEMCO motor, save a bit of weight, have more efficiency, and get
>> Regen.
>> I'd be willing to stretch that far, if the motor were perfect....
Would
>> the LEM-170 be the best fit of LEMCO offerings? I'm looking around
right
>> now on the net for other DC efficiency ratings...
>>
>> LEMCO's light weight looks good, but all of their graphs just show
>> limited-range RPM windows. http://www.lemcoltd.com/lem_170.htm Will
this
>> work full-range in EV use?
>
>
> Good question. If you look at the torque curves that evparts supplies
> for the big one, it -does- seem to have the juice to get you there
> though, upwards of 16hp. This one:
>
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt5115/008-200-60V.gif
>
> That's @ 60v, the top end. And it looks to be able to go to 4000RPM
> no problem.. which is plenty of RPM for highway speeds. Just tailor
> the tire, gears and chain to match your expectations :) Its rated for
> 100A continous, and looking at the various Torque graphs, that means
> you should be able to maintain highway speeds no problem, given light
> weight and aerodynamic forms.
>
> BUT.. I don't have any direct experience with these guys. You may want
> to ask the evparts folks (*wave*) about the LEMCO's suitability for
> your project. There may be some hidden bugaboo I am not seeing. Also,
> you'll be paying $1200 more for it than the ADC one, so you'll have to
> decide if that is worth regen and about 30lbs of weight.
>
> --T
>
>
--- End Message ---
