EV Digest 6703
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) DOD question - new/old debate
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Raptur 600 Hookitup!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) financing an EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: DC-DC converter
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Controller Schematics that are descent?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: financing an EV
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Controller Schematics that are descent?
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Gear Vendors Overdrive worth it in an EV?
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Video on you tube
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Video on you tube
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Linear motors
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC-DC converter
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by "Brian Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Catapillar Drive? WAS Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DC-DC converter
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Catapillar Drive? WAS Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: OT: Generator and UPS
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Catapillar Drive? WAS Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Linear motors
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Catapillar Drive? WAS Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) corvette conversion
by Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Catapillar Drive? WAS Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I don't quite believe that DOT is not aware of this and just
didn't bother to change standard when started importing cars
with HIDs, that would be too shortsighted, but may be Lee is right.
I suspect that the DOT wrote the regulations before anything except
plain old tungsten bulbs existed. They didn't think about changes in
lighting technology.
Also, DOT only pays attention to large manufacturers. They pretty much
ignore what gets sold at your local NAPA. Most of the serious offenders
are do-it-yourselfers adding some untested noncompliant lights, or
people incorrectly adjusting the headlights themselves, or overloading
the back of the car so the headlights are aimed too high.
Back in my school days I had "brilliant" idea - to make windshield
AND front lens glass polarized at 45 degree, say top left to bottom
right. Your own lights illuminate the road as before, but any oncoming
lights get cancelled out by your windshield filter which will be at
90' against it. 'Course marker lights won't have this and always visible
with separately controlled brightness. Problem solved.
I should apply for the patent (as I wanted 30 years ago :-) ) and
ask DOT to enforce retrofitting millions of existing cars with after
market stick-on polarizing filters (on top of mandating all the world
manufacturers to start polarizing their car glass...)
Great minds think alike, Victor! Edwin Land (who started Polaroid)
patented this idea in the 1940's. It works great! But he couldn't get
the auto companies to even consider it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Richard Acuti wrote:
Is the 80% DOD rule for 128 volts or 156 volts?
You've reached 80% DOD (Depth Of Discharge) when the voltage falls to
1.75v *under load*. How many amphours that is depends on the load
current. A battery at 80% DOD with a 100 amp load is only about 50% DOD
with a 25 amp load; you could connect a lighter load and get another 30%
out of it.
This brings me to the point of discussion with the software guy I work
with on EVision - SOC indication. A while ago we discussed it (and the
way e-meter does it) and I want to get the grasp of most useful
algorithm to indicate something that makes no sense - that is state
of charge of a battery with [generally] unknown (e.g. future) driving
pattern.
In your example - I draw 100A and if my SOC meter shows me 80%, it's
of course only for this kind of driving. No one would like a fuel gauge
pointer which jumps from half full to empty as soon as one stomps on the
throttle and spring back when they ease on the pedal, but this is how
SOC works by definition. If my battery sit at 50% SOC at some arbitrary
load and I decide to drag race I should not believe this SOC - my
battery is really empty *for that type of driving* since the voltage
of many cells will get below 1.75V. But it's not really empty! So my SOC
meter is lying because it has no knowledge about my intent to drive.
So key question is: what my SOC meter should display me?
The word "Depends"? :-D
Simple scenario: my wife wants to borrow the EV to go somewhere
and asks if she can make it there - SOC shows 50% (as it was driven
at 50A consumption last time before parked). Unless it's
obviously short distance the answer is - no one knows. Depends
how aggressively she will drive. How useful is that gauge??
With 50% SOC displayed, she gets on freeway, reach 70 mph and
suddenly it shows 12% and plunging down really fast. Nice...
So far EVision estimates SOC (and remaining range) based on past
history averaged for some time - we default to 4 minutes but make
this time user-definable. Less time - better response but more
jumping around and less "accuracy". More time - smoother response
but more "uncertainty".
Any better suggestions before finalizing beta units?
E-meter owners - is this how SOC is displayed to you? I don't
own e-meter, but even if I did, I don't know the alg behind
their Peukert calc correction. How would you suggest taking into
account future driving uncertainty? As I said, past history
is already taken there - about the best I could come up with,
but as in example below it may be totally unacceptable for
general driver. Yes, it's acceptable for techies like us,
we learn our gauges and typically don't change routine
driving style (as if we do, we know how and to what degree to
correct SOC gauge in anticipation they WILL lie).
Welcome to express opinion, but I'm atthe point where I don't
need English words unless they are formalizable to C words.
For now I need to throw a number on 3 digit display.
In the above situation what SOC *number* would you prefer
to see? Again, 3 digits are available I need to make most
use of them.
I explained the situation to my wife and she said "you know,
I better take my [ICE] Scion...
So, anyone with a number?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
childreypa wrote:
I started this and never thought I would get the great ideas everyone
has put out.
Yes; many of these things are being done, and are even hot R&D topics at
the edge of the state of the art.
are there any brushless EV motors?
Certainly! All EV AC induction motors are brushless. There are also lots
of "brushless DC" motors (which are really AC synchronous motors). All
the recent hybrid cars use them (Toyota Prius, Honda Civic, etc.).
Pretty much all the solar raycers use them. They are expensive, but work
very well.
Is the electronics that difficult on a large scale?
Small brushless DC motors like you find in a small fan are pretty cheap
and simple. The consequence is low efficiency and a poor power-to-weight
ratio. These are not problems in a little fan, but they are in a big car.
I would have the coils outside the pump and the magnetic rotor
inside with no physical connection through the pump wall
Yes, that's how it's done!
And about the electromagnetic pumps. Fantastic idea.
Could pump ferromagnetic liquid. That stuff is really cool.
A common use for ferrofluids is for magnetic bearings. A permanent
magnet is all it takes to keep the oil in the bearing. You lubricate the
shaft, *and* have a perfect seal that won't leak.
I have heard of liquid cooled EV motors but how does this work?
Most are pretty crude; just water passages in the outside stator iron.
Higher tech systems have hollow shafts with seals so they can circulate
coolant in the rotating parts as well. Sometimes they even use copper
pipe for the windings, and pump the coolant through it.
Is water used? Or a dielectric oil?
Both, as well as other liquids. For instance, your refrigerator's motor
is submerged in (and cooled by) the freon refrigerant.
If the liquid is conductive (water), they don't usually let it touch
live parts (it flows through grounded parts or insulated tubes).
Could a ferromagnetic fluid circulate through or around the motor
using the elctromagnetic forces like a pump?
Yes. Build any type of motor that allows an iron rotor, and the
ferrofluid can substitute for that rotor.
If you use an electrically conductive liquid instead, then you build any
type of motor that has an ironless rotor, that depends on conduction to run.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, I have turned on my Raptor with the pedal depressed. Still turns on.
I can tell you what is hooked up to what on my Raptor 600. not in front of
me, but I can walk over to the car later today if you want.
It must have to do with the stuff screwed into the green bar?
Into the green bar I have:
12 volt source pos and neg,
the throttle 2 wires,
Have a telephone connection to the 3 light led display shows green, yellow
red. Should be green for good
I think the switch line goes to it too.
Lastly, I think there is a fused line coming off the top lug (top is the
way mine is hooked up that goes to......)
call me if you want to know. My memory is blanking
I can email you a pdf of the instruction manual.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I financed mine. I purchased an already converted Chevy S10 from
the seller. Financed $5,000 of the purchase, check was written directly to
the seller by State Farm Loans.
I did have to prove that the 84 S10 was in fact worth $5,000 by indicating
it was an electric vehicle.
Now, State Farm only writes the check to the name of the vehicle seller.
You could sell the vehicle to a trustworthy friend, then get a loan to
purchase the vehicle from the friend for $5-10,000. and get your friend to
reimburse you the money?
It seems too easy that maybe it isn't possible.
The problem is that the state will rip you off for the taxes unless you
state you only purchased the car for $100.
Well, good luck this is all off topic other than getting you started in an
EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adrian DeLeon wrote:
With a higher voltage pack it's definitely in the inexpensive/cheap
category. Keep it dry... The 270,000 hour MTBF ain't bad, and you could
blow up quite a few before you hit $1,500 for an "EV DC/DC".
Got to love this attitude!
Little problem is it's kind of OK for yourself, but if you make
an EV for others, you can't offer that. That's what real DC-DCs
are for.
At the dealership:
"This BMW is really nice but it's got Chinese junk engine in it.
Don't worry though, with 15k miles you can put on each engine
before it fail, you can go through quite a few of them before
you hit the cost of real BMW engine!"
So, happy blowing stuff! Let us know when you'll get tired of it.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Look around here
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1483
You can find a bunch. Also, the library would have
books on the subject like electric machinery, electric
drives, inverter controls, etc.
Jeff
--- Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anybody have Controller schematics that are
> descent? Or schematics
> for a inverter for AC motors??
>
> Thanx Chris
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well this is a way for the customer to do it.. but as the seller you
could just do a deal with State Farm directly, for example, and have
an already approved pricing structure and loan amounts. Then, you
offer that as a 'loan package' to a customer, who has to go through
State Farm's approval process. Not difficult, just time consuming and
process intensive.
On 4/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The way I financed mine. I purchased an already converted Chevy S10 from
the seller. Financed $5,000 of the purchase, check was written directly to
the seller by State Farm Loans.
I did have to prove that the 84 S10 was in fact worth $5,000 by indicating
it was an electric vehicle.
Now, State Farm only writes the check to the name of the vehicle seller.
You could sell the vehicle to a trustworthy friend, then get a loan to
purchase the vehicle from the friend for $5-10,000. and get your friend to
reimburse you the money?
It seems too easy that maybe it isn't possible.
The problem is that the state will rip you off for the taxes unless you
state you only purchased the car for $100.
Well, good luck this is all off topic other than getting you started in an
EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a Curtis schematic and relevant background:
<http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/index.html>
--- Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anybody have Controller schematics that are
> descent? Or schematics
> for a inverter for AC motors??
>
> Thanx Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to toss on, it's too bad homopolar motors are so inefficient. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homopolar_motor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This seems to be a problem of trying to measure a differential
quantity with a linear method.
With batteries, there is a total AH rating based on discharge rate,
no? Someone probably knows the curve at various levels of C. So, to
make a proper 'Energy Remaining' gauge, you need to take into account
the time varying rate of AH drawn for a particular battery pack. That
is to say, you need to count how many amps are being drawn per unit
time (say, every 1/10 of a second), then use a reference curve to
produce the relevant display. Watts should work as well. You could
simplify it by setting some arbitrarily small 'energy unit' which is
something that is the smallest amount of amps per 1/10 of a second
that could reasonably be drawn from the pack (like, perhaps U = 1W/s
per battery or whatever), then use the curve value at that energy
drain level as a multiplier on that base unit. So your reference
would U-total be something like C/100 in Watt or Amp seconds, and then
you would scale up with the curve. The tool would always be remaining
watt seconds as referenced to C/100 and then modified by actual drain.
Since the curve is nonlinear, you'd just have to extrapolate using
manufacturer or tested values at varying levels of C, then join those
test points with a reasonably smooth curve, and you should be ok.
You could add a mcguffin, if you have the data to do so, and that
would be to record Amp seconds vs C in draw over time and voltage
drop, which might be able to give you degraded battery performance, as
they lose capacity, automagically.
Or, you could just include the facility to manually adjust the C/100
value downwards as the pack aged.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As an addendum, if it is reasonable to associate resting voltage with
SOC, you could have the unit reset itself after charging, and
initialize when the car is started. Is that reasonable?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The problem with Gear Vender units, that you need to bring up the
> rpm to about 500 rpm so it will start to work. This means you
> either will have to start out at the axle ratio (with no
> transmission) and when you get to 500 rpm, then you can engaged
> the over drive unit.
Advance Adapters has an auxiliary gear box that bolts in front of the
standard Chevy, Ford and Land Cruiser transmissions that may do what you
need: the Ranger Torque Splitter. It is available in either 27% OD or
17% UD and is pretty stout.
http://72.20.96.178/commerce/ccc1235-ranger-torque-splitter.htm
They have some nice parts! http://www.advanceadapters.com/
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/25/07, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of a person provides the vehicle
to be converted, and the needed components
installed(motor/controller/charger/batteries) and the monthly payments
to pay off the conversion items.
Can some sort of small loan be taken out from a bank to purchase the
needed conversion items?
Buy a new car for ~$16,000 or create an electric for ~$8,000? I walk
in the bank and say "I need a loan for $8,000" and they say "what
for"? What's the valid reason that will land the loan?
What would the monthly payment be on a small bank loan?
If gas hits $4/gal this summer(hurricane/war/refinery/terror), I think
more will be interested in the possibility of owning and driving an
EV.
My silent high performance EV will be much more residential area
friendly vs's ~1,400hp unmuffled turbo charged V8.. It's hard to idle
that out of the neighborhood quietly..
You can get a loan on a completed electric car, no problem. You just
have to show comparables to prove its worth what you are paying for
it.
Getting a personal loan on a conversion you are going to do yourself
would be dicey, unless you had collateral or a 401k you could use to
back it up, or absolutely excellent credit and didn't need the money
anyway. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry... as a business, you CAN get loans to cover capital expenses
and inventory costs short term, but not long term. If you've done a
few conversions and proven yourself you can probably get lenders to
give out a traditional auto loan package based on the customer's
credit. The issue is that every conversion you do will be unique, and
so every time you'll have to show it is worth the money being paid for
it.
The easiest way is probably to get an order from a customer, take a
down payment, build the thing then 'sell' it to them as a complete car
sans the down payment. That way it's a normal car sale and the only
weirdness is the fact that it is electric.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Realizing that linear motors are not as efficient, pound for pound, as
> rotory ones, I wondered.. the problem of saturation... could it be
> mitigated if you setup a double action rotory linear array (like an
> airplane engine) with, say, 3+ 'pistons' connected to a crankshaft?
> Say the 'piston' was a magnetically borne long, permanent magnet, and
> was some significant distance away from the shaft itself, and the
> whole thing was computer controlled.
>
How about a configuration like an old steam engine. Have a linear motor replace
the steam actuated
piston. It just goes back and forth to make the wheel go round and round. Might
not be efficient,
but it would be unique. It would be great for a parade vehicle to pull floats
or trailers.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So, happy blowing stuff! Let us know when you'll get tired of it.
>
Speaking of blowing things up, I just got a nice switch mode power supply I'm
going to try out for
my DC-DC and I want to make sure I'm hooking it up right. The unit is rated for
115 - 230 VAC, 300
VDC. My pack is nominally around 212v. The dc-dc has the usual input
connections, L1, L2, and
ground. Do I just hook up my pack to L1 and L2? Do I want to ground the unit to
the chassis?
Sorry for the obvious questions, just need some obvious answers. Also, is there
a problem with
using a relay to power the DC-DC only when running? Have the relay make the
connection with the
ignition key on? (I have a separate trickle charger to top off the house
battery while the main
pack is charging.)
Thanks
Dave Cover
PS Status of the project: I'll finish rebuilding the brakes this weekend. I
have the new air
shocks installed in the rear. I've made permanent mounts for the tow bar. I
just need to make
another battery box lid and hook up the ventilation. Should be registered
before PODC. I doubt
I'll have it on the road before Bob though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you can afford the complexity a gps could greatly improve the
accuracy of the load prediction for the trip. Routing gps use the
speed limits and number of traffic lights to calculate the fastest
route for you. This data could also be used to better estimate the
power requirements during the rest of your trip.
It might be a pain to enter your destination into the gps before going
for a drive but it is better than running out of power.
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neat idea but...
Polarization works by blocking the light with the wrong polarization.
This will decrease the transmission of unpolarized light and will appear
as a significantly tinted windshield. This is a problem when trying to
see at night. The filter on the headlight will also reduce headlight
output.
You wouldn't use a diagonal polarization. Glare, say headlights off a
wet road, is largely polarized in one direction. That's why polarized
sunglasses can eliminate it. You'd want to maintain that effect for sure.
I'm not sure but I believe some reflections of your headlights may
maintain their original polarization, which your windshield will try to
block. I think the retroreflective street markings and street signs
might do that.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Back in my school days I had "brilliant" idea - to make windshield
AND front lens glass polarized at 45 degree, say top left to bottom
right. Your own lights illuminate the road as before, but any oncoming
lights get cancelled out by your windshield filter which will be at
90' against it. 'Course marker lights won't have this and always visible
with separately controlled brightness. Problem solved.
Great minds think alike, Victor! Edwin Land (who started Polaroid)
patented this idea in the 1940's. It works great! But he couldn't get
the auto companies to even consider it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
Chop an' slash a bit;Sorry Lee!
> Yes. Build any type of motor that allows an iron rotor, and the
> ferrofluid can substitute for that rotor.
>
> If you use an electrically conductive liquid instead, then you build any
> type of motor that has an ironless rotor, that depends on conduction to
run.
>
> -- Hi EVerybody;
Then we COULD have a "Catapiller Drive" as depicted in "Hunt For Red
October, movie? I think THAT was the sub movie where the Russian sub stole
away silently on Catapiller power, a way to blast water out the pipe in the
stern of the sub. No prop or noisy reduction gear!Or is this still in the
Flux Capaciter rehelm?
My two wet watts worth
Bob
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: DC-DC converter
> --- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > So, happy blowing stuff! Let us know when you'll get tired of it.
> >
>
> Speaking of blowing things up, I just got a nice switch mode power supply
I'm going to try out for
> my DC-DC and I want to make sure I'm hooking it up right. The unit is
rated for 115 - 230 VAC, 300
> VDC. My pack is nominally around 212v. The dc-dc has the usual input
connections, L1, L2, and
> ground. Do I just hook up my pack to L1 and L2? Do I want to ground the
unit to the chassis?
>
> Sorry for the obvious questions, just need some obvious answers. Also, is
there a problem with
> using a relay to power the DC-DC only when running? Have the relay make
the connection with the
> ignition key on? (I have a separate trickle charger to top off the house
battery while the main
> pack is charging.)
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
> PS Status of the project: I'll finish rebuilding the brakes this weekend.
I have the new air
> shocks installed in the rear. I've made permanent mounts for the tow bar.
I just need to make
> another battery box lid and hook up the ventilation. Should be registered
before PODC. I doubt
> I'll have it on the road before Bob though.
>
I don't know here. UNESS I get my @#$%^ Rapture sorted out, in 2
daze??Boy! is my ass draggin' the CAR I mean, Hope those new coil springs
show up, soon?A Low Rider Jetta.Feh!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You wouldn't need to have polarized windshield. You can wear 45'
polarized glasses (filters). Same effect.
This discussion is cool, but academic, let's drop it.
Victor
Danny Miller wrote:
You wouldn't use a diagonal polarization. Glare, say headlights off a
wet road, is largely polarized in one direction. That's why polarized
sunglasses can eliminate it. You'd want to maintain that effect for sure.
...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Then we COULD have a "Catapiller Drive" as depicted in "Hunt For Red
October, movie? I think THAT was the sub movie where the Russian sub stole
away silently on Catapiller power, a way to blast water out the pipe in the
stern of the sub. No prop or noisy reduction gear!Or is this still in the
Flux Capaciter rehelm?
My two wet watts worth
Sure you could, but the electrical cost would be ENORMOUS :)
Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there already is a Top Sekret
model just like it roaming about.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
I should apply for the patent (as I wanted 30 years ago :-) ) and
ask DOT to enforce retrofitting millions of existing cars with after
market stick-on polarizing filters (on top of mandating all the world
manufacturers to start polarizing their car glass...)
Great minds think alike, Victor! Edwin Land (who started Polaroid)
patented this idea in the 1940's. It works great!
Damn! I'm 70 years late [snapping finger]...
But he couldn't get
the auto companies to even consider it.
I won't try either :-)
But I must tell that if I will see suitable HID lights
for ACRX, I'll get them, of course making sure they
don't ever interfere with on-coming traffic.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela,
Most likely your gensets produce modified square wave output rather than
sine. So voltmeters read normal but "area under curve" fort this wave
shape is less than that of a sine, so your UPSes don't quite see 120V
while voltmeter does. In general, any non-sine wave voltage will result
in different readings depending on if your voltmeter is true RMS or
just divides rectified peak by 1.41 (which is OK only for sine wave).
Victor
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hello:
Just a short question for you folks: We had a power outage today due to a
bad thunderstorm. The emergency generator went on and it would have been
no problem, but the UPS systems for our computers went crazy.
The generator is rated at 25KW, the two UPS systems are small two computer
units. Voltage measured at the outlet was 122-124 V at 59.8-61.0 Hz.
However, the UPSs didn't accept that as 'good' voltages and went into
battery mode. For a few minutes in between, they switched to 'normal'
mode but sure enough, after just 2 or 3 minutes, they went back to 'beep'
.. 'beep' .. 'beep'.
As soon as power was restored and the generator shut itself off, both UPSs
were happily sitching back to 'all ok'.
I am puzzled as everything else worked just fine, TV, other electronics,
only the UPSs had a problem. Any ideas?
Michaela
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I recall research on doing this using superconductors. Aha, I found a
wikipedia article on it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_1
So it's been done
On 4/26/07, Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Then we COULD have a "Catapiller Drive" as depicted in "Hunt For Red
> October, movie? I think THAT was the sub movie where the Russian sub stole
> away silently on Catapiller power, a way to blast water out the pipe in the
> stern of the sub. No prop or noisy reduction gear!Or is this still in the
> Flux Capaciter rehelm?
>
> My two wet watts worth
Sure you could, but the electrical cost would be ENORMOUS :)
Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there already is a Top Sekret
model just like it roaming about.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How about a configuration like an old steam engine. Have a linear motor
> replace the steam actuated
> piston. It just goes back and forth to make the wheel go round and round.
> Might not be efficient,
> but it would be unique. It would be great for a parade vehicle to pull
> floats or trailers.
Seems to me that, for a parade etc., it would be a whole lot easier to
just use normal electric motor and a fake cyclinder.
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--- Begin Message ---
> Then we COULD have a "Catapiller Drive" as depicted in "Hunt For
> Red October, movie? I think THAT was the sub movie where the Russian sub
> stole away silently on Catapiller power, a way to blast water out the
> pipe in the stern of the sub. No prop or noisy reduction gear!
Hmm, as I recall the catapillar drive was NOT silent, it just made an
unfamiliar noise that the techs and computers weren't trained to listen
for.
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--- Begin Message ---
Seems to me the best way would be to have TWO readings, perhaps side by
side bar graphs.
One indicates remaining capacity at average current levels, and the other
indicates remaining capacity at the existing current draw.
> Lee Hart wrote:
>> Richard Acuti wrote:
>>> Is the 80% DOD rule for 128 volts or 156 volts?
>>
>> You've reached 80% DOD (Depth Of Discharge) when the voltage falls to
>> 1.75v *under load*. How many amphours that is depends on the load
>> current. A battery at 80% DOD with a 100 amp load is only about 50% DOD
>> with a 25 amp load; you could connect a lighter load and get another 30%
>> out of it.
>
> This brings me to the point of discussion with the software guy I work
> with on EVision - SOC indication. A while ago we discussed it (and the
> way e-meter does it) and I want to get the grasp of most useful
> algorithm to indicate something that makes no sense - that is state
> of charge of a battery with [generally] unknown (e.g. future) driving
> pattern.
>
> In your example - I draw 100A and if my SOC meter shows me 80%, it's
> of course only for this kind of driving. No one would like a fuel gauge
> pointer which jumps from half full to empty as soon as one stomps on the
> throttle and spring back when they ease on the pedal, but this is how
> SOC works by definition. If my battery sit at 50% SOC at some arbitrary
> load and I decide to drag race I should not believe this SOC - my
> battery is really empty *for that type of driving* since the voltage
> of many cells will get below 1.75V. But it's not really empty! So my SOC
> meter is lying because it has no knowledge about my intent to drive.
>
> So key question is: what my SOC meter should display me?
>
> The word "Depends"? :-D
>
> Simple scenario: my wife wants to borrow the EV to go somewhere
> and asks if she can make it there - SOC shows 50% (as it was driven
> at 50A consumption last time before parked). Unless it's
> obviously short distance the answer is - no one knows. Depends
> how aggressively she will drive. How useful is that gauge??
>
> With 50% SOC displayed, she gets on freeway, reach 70 mph and
> suddenly it shows 12% and plunging down really fast. Nice...
>
> So far EVision estimates SOC (and remaining range) based on past
> history averaged for some time - we default to 4 minutes but make
> this time user-definable. Less time - better response but more
> jumping around and less "accuracy". More time - smoother response
> but more "uncertainty".
>
> Any better suggestions before finalizing beta units?
>
> E-meter owners - is this how SOC is displayed to you? I don't
> own e-meter, but even if I did, I don't know the alg behind
> their Peukert calc correction. How would you suggest taking into
> account future driving uncertainty? As I said, past history
> is already taken there - about the best I could come up with,
> but as in example below it may be totally unacceptable for
> general driver. Yes, it's acceptable for techies like us,
> we learn our gauges and typically don't change routine
> driving style (as if we do, we know how and to what degree to
> correct SOC gauge in anticipation they WILL lie).
>
> Welcome to express opinion, but I'm atthe point where I don't
> need English words unless they are formalizable to C words.
>
> For now I need to throw a number on 3 digit display.
> In the above situation what SOC *number* would you prefer
> to see? Again, 3 digits are available I need to make most
> use of them.
>
> I explained the situation to my wife and she said "you know,
> I better take my [ICE] Scion...
>
> So, anyone with a number?
>
> Victor
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Just put down a deposit on a 1981 donor corvette, so now I need to
get busy. I didn't receive any feedback on the questions concerning
the Solectria AC55 motor/controller, or electroauto.com.
Any/all comments appreciated, either via the list, or by private
email. I would like to place an order within a week or 2 at most.
---
tia,
Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Also, DOT only pays attention to large manufacturers. They pretty much
> ignore what gets sold at your local NAPA. Most of the serious offenders
> are do-it-yourselfers adding some untested noncompliant lights, or
> people incorrectly adjusting the headlights themselves, or overloading
> the back of the car so the headlights are aimed too high.
Or installing lights in the road vehicle that clearly state "Intended for
OFF-ROAD use only"
I think this thread started with someone intending to save power by
switching to LEDs?
If so, then it's a waste of time. Even plain old headlight technology
uses so little power that even cutting it in half (which LEDs won't even
come close too) won't have any measurable impact on your range.
Think about it, a standard set of head lights draws about 120 watts per
hour. So if you drove for an entire hour, at night, in a typical EV, you
will loose less than 1/2 mile of range.
Switching to LEDs might get you an extra couple hundred yards, and that's
ONLY if you drive right to the limit. How many people do that?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
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--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 26, 2007, at 9:32 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
E-meter owners - is this how SOC is displayed to you? I don't
own e-meter, but even if I did, I don't know the alg behind
their Peukert calc correction. How would you suggest taking into
account future driving uncertainty? As I said, past history
is already taken there - about the best I could come up with,
but as in example below it may be totally unacceptable for
general driver. Yes, it's acceptable for techies like us,
we learn our gauges and typically don't change routine
driving style (as if we do, we know how and to what degree to
correct SOC gauge in anticipation they WILL lie)
The e-meter uses the 20 hour battery capacity and the Peukert's
exponent to calculate the batteries Peukert's capacity (the capacity
at a 1 amp discharge rate in theory.) As you drive it raises the amps
you are using at any point (several times a second anyway) by the
Peukert's exponent, converts that to amp hours (for instance, if the
e-meter sampled only once per second it would divide the adjusted
amps by 3600 to get amp hours), and subtracts that from the Peukert's
capacity. This system results in a battery "fuel" gauge that doesn't
go back up when you remove the load. It also results in a fuel gauge
that considers your past driving (on that charge) to be an indicator
of your future driving on that charge.
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--- Begin Message ---
The Soviet submarine in "Hunt for Red October" probably had a
magnetohydrodynamic
(MHD for short) drive system. Prototypes of MHD submarine drives have been
built but are too inefficient and too slow for a practical submarine. Read
about it at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: Catapillar Drive? WAS Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
Chop an' slash a bit;Sorry Lee!
Yes. Build any type of motor that allows an iron rotor, and the
ferrofluid can substitute for that rotor.
If you use an electrically conductive liquid instead, then you build any
type of motor that has an ironless rotor, that depends on conduction to
run.
-- Hi EVerybody;
Then we COULD have a "Catapiller Drive" as depicted in "Hunt For Red
October, movie? I think THAT was the sub movie where the Russian sub stole
away silently on Catapiller power, a way to blast water out the pipe in
the
stern of the sub. No prop or noisy reduction gear!Or is this still in the
Flux Capaciter rehelm?
My two wet watts worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
