EV Digest 6713
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) HARD TIME ON CURTIS WARRANTY CLAIM? (WAS Re: Newest Curtis controllers
OK to buy now for 120V EV? Or, go with Zilla controller?)
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric Aircraft
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Newest Curtis controllers OK to buy now for 120V EV? Or, go with Zilla
controller?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Can my car be a UPS for my house?
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Can my car be a UPS for my house?
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: corvette conversion
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Newest Curtis controllers OK to buy now for 120V EV? Or, go
with Zilla controller?
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric Aircraft
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Quick question on running two motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EV Experience with Battery Desulfation?
by Tim Kutscha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: corvette conversion
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Quick question on running two motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Experience with Battery Desulfation?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Experience with Battery Desulfation?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.
by Mike Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) (no subject)
by Jason Franzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just spoke with Spencer Baird, who owned an S-10 EV
and now has a small car EV with Curtis controllers. On
his S-10 conversion by Canev, Baird sez that his truck
was converted to 144V DC around 2000, and he had TWO
Curtis controllers die "in their sleep" within a
month. Said he had a hard time getting them replaced
under warranty, and Curtis repaired them (he can't
remember whether he had to pay.)
Now, his ontrollers failed, didn't blow up, or burn
up, while the truck wasn't used. Reason for this?
His Curtis controllers weren't the "whistling" model,
so can we assume that Baird had an older model that
was prone to failure?
He had the 144V model.
Also said his truck drew up to 435A or so, according
to a sophisticated digital ammeter. The Tofino area is
flat, too.
Can anybody provide details of their RECENT (2006, or
2007) experiences with a Curtis warranty claim?
(Otmar's is posted in the Cafe Electric website.)
Interestingly, Baird's new electric small car is 96V.
Is it fair to say that, at 96V, the Curtis controller
is robust?
BTW, I haven't confirmed any of Baird's allegations
about the Curtis controllers.
--- robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There were posts on several forums about "lots" of
> Curtis controller failures on electric vehicles,
> which
> leads me to the following questions, in respect to a
> 120V EV:
>
> - What is the waiting time for a Godzilla (Otmar)
> controller?
>
> - Are the newest Curtis 120V (72V-120V) 400A
> controllers better built now, so they don't blow up
> at
> low speeds? How about the 120V-144V model, 550A
> model,
> is that a "solid" controller? Are the newer models
> the
> ones that make the low-speed whine-whistle-buzz
> sounds?
>
> - Our "non-whistling" (12+ year old model)120V 400A
> Curtis failed at low speed, while moving from a
> stop,
> reversing. Should it be equipped with a precharge
> circuit, to prevent this from happening? (This
> controller failure doesn't appear to be in the power
> section; it may be in the controls section.) Is a
> failure likely to happen again, after we repair it?
>
> - What is the bullet-proof 120V controller for an
> S-15
> EV, in your experience?
>
> Thanks in advance for all suggestions.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Photo link: Using the world's first licensed
> Revived Battery electric pickup truck
> for everyday errandshttp://my-ev-diary.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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>
>
Photo link: Using the world's first licensed
Revived Battery electric pickup truck
for everyday errandshttp://my-ev-diary.blogspot.com/
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah a motor with a 65 hp continuous rating is no lightweight either. A
1 hr flight time is not all that practical for say a Long EZ either.
You need that much flight time for reserve if you even want to leave
your airport.
The electric PPG or an electric glider launch has merit. You only need
enough to get to an altitude with thermals so you can cut power and soar
for as long as thermals persist.
There's a company called EEStor which has promised to make a barium
titaniate capacitor (not a battery) so powerful that it would be the
drive shaft equivalent of almost 5 gal of gasoline feeding an engine.
Several hundred lbs but still unbelievably useful and practical. Unlike
a battery, a capacitor likely never wears out and has few limits on how
fast it can be charged or discharged. Now there have been plenty of
tech fraud claims of this caliber, however, EEStor has done some
remarkable capacitor advances in the past, though nothing of this
magnitude has been proven. The world's waiting to see if they pan out.
Danny
Bill Dube wrote:
746 Watts/HP x 65 HP is about 50,000 watts.
There are marvelous batteries out there, but there are no miracle
batteries.
I gave an example of one of the very most efficient airplanes (the
Long EZ designed by Burt Rutan) that would make an hour long flight on
the very best possible available rechargeable batteries. Making the
project larger or smaller won't alter the physics. You might make a
two or three hour flight going about the same distance, but at a
slower speed.
Carrying the extra weight of batteries in a car does not make a huge
impact on the distance the car will travel because rolling resistance
(the amount of HP required to keep the car rolling, not including aero
drag) is small. The equivalent on an airplane is "induced drag". It
takes a lot more HP on an airplane to hold a pound up than is does to
make a car roll.
The typical "bounty" for weight on a commercial airplane is about $100
per pound. That is, you will gladly increase the cost of the airplane
$100 to get rid of a pound. this is because the airplane will burn
many times more than $100 worth of fuel to keep that pound up in the
air over its service life. It is also a pound less cargo it can carry
for revenue on each trip.
Run the airplane on biodiesel instead.
Bill Dube'
At 01:26 PM 4/29/2007, you wrote:
It's an Ultralight aircraft called a PPG. Very high lift and low
weight. I am only using motors in the 8-15hp range. Check out
youtube http://youtube.com/watch?v=s3pgGDQIgjM and
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iVN_qEtBqjg to see a flying prototype.
What about the new LiPo batterys? Do they not out preform Li-Ion
Batteries? Could you explain "746x65 ~ 50 kW?"
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Aircraft
Focus on the batteries and put aside any drive system design efforts
at first.
A very small two-seat airplane needs about 65 HP. This is 746x65 ~ 50
kW.
You would like to fly for about an hour, so this is about a 50 kW-hr
pack.
The very highest energy $tate-of-the-art Li-Ion cell$ (that will turn
into flamethrowers given the opportunity,) approach 200 W-hr/kg. Your
50 kW-hr pack will weigh at least 250 kg = 550 lbs.
Now you understand why there are not any electric airplanes.
You could possibly do this with a LongEZ by giving up the passenger
seat.
Bill Dube'
At 11:01 AM 4/29/2007, you wrote:
>I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the great things you guys are
>building. You guys really seem to know what you are doing. I am
>building an electric aircraft and am hoping someone might help me
>figure a few things out. I have three motor options I think will
>work for my prototype. The Briggs+Stratton Etek brushless, the Perm
>PMG-132 w/bushes, and the Lemco Lem-200 w/brushes.
>
>Because the Etek is brushless is it quieter? Is it more energy
>efficient? Does anyone know the efficiency % of the new brushless Etek?
>Which motor will drain the batteries the quickest. One that runs on
>72volts and 110Amps or one using 48volts and 165amps?
>
>The motor will only need to run at full power for the first >2mins.
After that it will mostly run at percentages around 65% to >80% and
occasionally at 0 to descend and full power to climb.
>
>Are there any battery packs available commercially that weigh less
>then 50 lbs that could power such a set up for at least >30min?
LiPo? A123? Could someone show me how to calculate how much >battery
power I will need? Can I run these batteries all the way >down or do
I need to recharge before they are completely >drained. Thanks for
the help and great message board. -Mike
>________________________________________________________________________
>Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about one of these?
http://www.belktronix.com/dcmotorctrl.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here in Oregon, there is a company that recycles flor. lamps.ook around you
for one that doesit in your neighborhood.
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
All of these responses seemed quite useful.
The elephant in the room, with respect to CFLs, would seem to be
Mercury. So, I have already piled up a couple, for example, which are
no longer working and which wait in a box, along with some NiCad
batteries, for me to figure out what to do about disposing of them.
I think if the Mercury weren't there, and given the confirming views
we see to get that CFLs do very well with respect to Lumens Per Watt,
then CFLs would seem to be presently a good way to go to save energy
in the home and office. Also significant, I think, is their superior
lifetime to Incandescents. This may not help save Watt-Hours
directly, but would seem to save tangible and intangible resources, in
avoiding replacement hassle.
I have never tried, or looked into, HIDs, Halogen, Xenon, etc. So,
I'm still having a bit of a hard time figuring out if any of them
could be of assistance in helping me save energy in my home. In
purchasing a lamp the other day at home depot for example, I didn't
want to get away from the standard socket and toward a MR-16 (or
whatever it was) socket that seemed at the time Halogen-specific
because the Halogen bulbs always seem to have such a high Wattage
rating that I didn't think I could make it work. From what you say,
perhaps this socket is not Halogen-specific.
My understanding of LEDs is that a lot of work has gone on with
respect to color (bringing white LEDs to market) so I'm a bit
surprised that LEDs can't be found which would do a better job in
headlights and not cause the eyesight problems mentioned by one
poster. Surely carmakers could source an LED headlamp that is further
away from the blue-ish part of the spectrum? LEDs are also said to
last a long time, but the first one I got burned out within the first
half-second of my turning it on... and then I had it replaced.... a
healthy reminder that the technology is a bit earlier-stage than the
CFC tech for the home.
It is interesting to learn that LEDs, even if I grouped a whole bunch
of them together, are not quite as good as I thought on a
Lumens-per-watt basis. This was not intuitive, because at 3 watts for
a bulb, even if it is dim, I imagine that grouping four of them
together might come in "OK" versus a 13 Watt CFC. The answer I guess
was that my estimate didn't quite capture the dimness-calculation with
sufficient exactness.
It was very interesting to read David's points about the differences
between Candellas and Lumens, and how car headlight needs differ from
home illumination needs. Makes more sense now.
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:39:39 -0700, John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Actually there has been quite a lot of progress lately in white LEDs. A
new chemistry is out there. I am trying an MR16 12V LED in my dimmable
track lights. Its color temp is too high (!) this means the halogen
lights look yellow ( see Ed. Land and color theory for an explanation of
subjective whiteness). Its usable light, what you guys are calling
Lumens, is about half to a third of the 40W halogens' at 3W. (before you
drag out the millicandelas to argue, just try one. It doesn't waste any
light on back-scatter and so is perfect for spots and floods) Its so
efficient you can put your finger on the lens and its hard to tell its
on by temperature alone. Prices are dropping fast. Of course it doesn't
dim. Service life is effectively equal to the life of the house itself,
or so they claim.
so I suggest you try one for yourself and see how it works in your
fixtures. CFs make an unattractive light quality ( I have many - typ FL
problems with flicker and spectrum ) and don't actually last as long as
advertised for me.
*EV content:* You'd need a huge reflector and lens to make an LED
headlight, and it would cost as much as an HID anyway. Try the bicycle
and off-road motorcycle catalogs for small, efficient and easily mounted
HID lights. Expect a high cost.
LED links: shop around! costs vary wildly!
http://www.superbrightleds.com/
http://www.amazon.com/s/103-9057299-1847827?ie=UTF8&search-alias=garden&field-brandtextbin=Cyron%20Light-bulb
http://www.ledlight.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=5
http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx
http://www.ledbulbs.com/
http://www.theledlight.com/120-VAC-LEDbulbs.html
https://www.shop.donsgreenstore.com/splashPage.hg
JF
David Roden wrote:
On 27 Apr 2007 at 6:07, murdoch wrote:
I have bought and tested one $40 LED bulb and verified their extreme
energy savings (though their color and brightness leave a lot to be
desired, at first glance).
Exactly. Household LED lighting saves energy - by being dim.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, this is easy for a small amount of power if you have a DC/DC
converter. Just plug an inverter into the cig. lighter and run whatever off
it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Can my car be a UPS for my house?
Mike Sandman wrote:
i am finding a few articles by googling--looks like others are thinking
about this too. i would be interested in any information dealing with an
EV being used as a UPS for a house?
You need an inverter that can run off your battery supply, that's the big
problem. I was thinking about this the other day as I replaced battery
packs in my office's Symmetra UPS units (APC). I think they run on 120
volt packs, so you might be able to rig one straight into a 120 volt EV's
T105 battery pack.
With up to 6K VA of power at 240 volts, that's not too bad.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You should always shut ioff the amin in a power outage situation anyway - it
saves anything electronic what the power comes back on, as it can surge or
go on and off several times.
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: Can my car be a UPS for my house?
Danny> To power the house, the house would need a "transfer switch".
Danny> That's what unhooks the grid's connection and switches to the
Danny> generator supply.
Presuming the cutover isn't automatic wouldn't shutting off your main
circuit breaker isolate things properly (assuming your EV taps into the
system somewhere on the house side of the main breaker)?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve and All,
Not sure about any new regulations regarding "fuel-cell safety", but in '02
I had to take the eelectric truck to one of two "state" testing stations in
Fort Collins or Broomfield, and the inspection was a no-brainer. It was a
nightmare prior to finally giving in and going to the state inspector, as
Longmont sent me to the e-test station with a VIN verification form that
had fuel type on it, but after paying $ at the e-test station the ladies of
power said that they couldn't use that form any longer (they DID give me a
new temporary tag because mine expired that day). The story I heard later
was that the kids that worked at the testing stations would check off
eelectric when their friend's gasser wouldn't pass (and there is more to my
story if we meet in person)... Anyway, I argued with the gals about
breaking in a new battery pack, etc., and asked why the Highway Patrol
couldn't perform the inspection (they did VIN verifications years ago), but
they wouldn't budge and suggested I trailer the truck (easy for them to
say). I ended up driving the EV to Broomfield because I was able to bulk
charge with my on-board Zivan and off-board FrankenLester along the route.
The state tester was really cool and let me suck off his 120V outlet while
we talked about EV's (and he spit a form out of the computer). Also, as
Steve mentioned, here on the polluted front range we must have an emissions
test done, so it's worth the effort to get the title changed to avoid the
$25 testing fee, and the brain damage of a kid trying to find an exhaust
pipe on your EV!
Hope this helps,
Suck Amps...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
On Apr 28, 2007, at 11:41 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>
>> I have to pass a yearly smog inspection here in the metro Denver
>> area,
>> so its impossible to fly under the radar.
>
> What are you worried about? Your EV will pass the smog test just
> fine.
>From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:04:41 +0000
>
>The easiest way to deal with bureacracy is to avoid it. Why bother getting
>it retitled to electric? If you want to do it to make a statement, that's
>your perogitive. Personally I just plan on paying my renewal fee every year
>after my conversion is done. Since I am starting with a 1970 donor there
>are no emission inspections required and no compelling reason for me to fill
>out a bunch of paperwork.
>
>damon
>>From: Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Hi,
<snippage>
>> But now the design takes a back seat to bureaucracy. *&[EMAIL
>> PROTECTED])%$
>>I titled the donor car yesterday, and broached the question of
>>converting it to ev. I was told that I would have to take the
>>completed car to a regional motor vehicle center and have it
>>inspected for "fuel-cell safety". After passing that test I could go
>>back to my local motor vehicle department and apply for a re-tile
>>to electric fuel, basically a VIN review. But nobody seems to be
>>able to point me to published rules for what is required to pass the
>>inspection. I have been given a phone # as a starting point, will be
>>trying to arrange a meeting with an inspector coming week...
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert and All,
>- What is the bullet-proof 120V controller for an S-15
Water cooled!
Hope this helps,
Suck Amps...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:14:15 -0700 (PDT)
>From: robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<snippage>
>- What is the bullet-proof 120V controller for an S-15
>EV, in your experience?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An airship is a lot more practical to use with electrics. You don't
have to expend power to keep aloft, only to provide motive power and
to fight wind. Also, you can get extremely large, and economies of
scale kick in. Some folks are designing hybrid ships that get most of
their lift from gases, but the last 5 - 10% from lift. This has
benefits in terms of maintaining stability and direction. Mega lifting
airships are being designed right now and bid on by a few governments
to provide 'roadless' trucking services for the developing world.
NASA already did an electric plane that set the highest altitude
record of 96,500 feet, by the way, in 2001:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010815081052.htm
so if you really wanted to do this, talk to the folks at Aerovironment
and see what tips they can give! :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is running 2 motors in series/parallel, assuming you're doing it with
the Zilla 1k, more or less efficient than running one larger motor at
1/2 the voltage?
This is in regards to doing a range oriented conversion, btw :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh this is probably going to break the bar for being OT but oh well.
Check out this guy:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda
The guy who wrote it is Steven Milloy
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Milloy>. He's a science
commentator and lobbyist who goes on Fox News sometimes, runs
junkscience.com where he tries to discredit any environmental or public
health-related cause. He is very well paid by Phillip Morris (he
spearheaded a media blitz that secondhand smoke risks were a hoax) and
ExxonMobile (he's now the major source of the "information" that global
warming is all a case of politically motivated junk science).
Amazing he's kind of lumping environmentalists and public health stuff
together. See, he attacked opposition to asbestos, opposition to DDT,
and CFL alike even though I don't see a direct link to a current
corporate cause that this would directly benefit. Seems like he'll dig
up anything to discredit this sort of thinking in general.
I'm sure he'll take on the electric car sooner or later.
Danny
All of these responses seemed quite useful.
The elephant in the room, with respect to CFLs, would seem to be
Mercury. So, I have already piled up a couple, for example, which are
no longer working and which wait in a box, along with some NiCad
batteries, for me to figure out what to do about disposing of them.
I think if the Mercury weren't there, and given the confirming views
we see to get that CFLs do very well with respect to Lumens Per Watt,
then CFLs would seem to be presently a good way to go to save energy
in the home and office. Also significant, I think, is their superior
lifetime to Incandescents. This may not help save Watt-Hours
directly, but would seem to save tangible and intangible resources, in
avoiding replacement hassle.
I have never tried, or looked into, HIDs, Halogen, Xenon, etc. So,
I'm still having a bit of a hard time figuring out if any of them
could be of assistance in helping me save energy in my home. In
purchasing a lamp the other day at home depot for example, I didn't
want to get away from the standard socket and toward a MR-16 (or
whatever it was) socket that seemed at the time Halogen-specific
because the Halogen bulbs always seem to have such a high Wattage
rating that I didn't think I could make it work. From what you say,
perhaps this socket is not Halogen-specific.
My understanding of LEDs is that a lot of work has gone on with
respect to color (bringing white LEDs to market) so I'm a bit
surprised that LEDs can't be found which would do a better job in
headlights and not cause the eyesight problems mentioned by one
poster. Surely carmakers could source an LED headlamp that is further
away from the blue-ish part of the spectrum? LEDs are also said to
last a long time, but the first one I got burned out within the first
half-second of my turning it on... and then I had it replaced.... a
healthy reminder that the technology is a bit earlier-stage than the
CFC tech for the home.
It is interesting to learn that LEDs, even if I grouped a whole bunch
of them together, are not quite as good as I thought on a
Lumens-per-watt basis. This was not intuitive, because at 3 watts for
a bulb, even if it is dim, I imagine that grouping four of them
together might come in "OK" versus a 13 Watt CFC. The answer I guess
was that my estimate didn't quite capture the dimness-calculation with
sufficient exactness.
It was very interesting to read David's points about the differences
between Candellas and Lumens, and how car headlight needs differ from
home illumination needs. Makes more sense now.
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:39:39 -0700, John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Actually there has been quite a lot of progress lately in white LEDs. A
new chemistry is out there. I am trying an MR16 12V LED in my dimmable
track lights. Its color temp is too high (!) this means the halogen
lights look yellow ( see Ed. Land and color theory for an
explanation of
subjective whiteness). Its usable light, what you guys are calling
Lumens, is about half to a third of the 40W halogens' at 3W. (before
you
drag out the millicandelas to argue, just try one. It doesn't waste any
light on back-scatter and so is perfect for spots and floods) Its so
efficient you can put your finger on the lens and its hard to tell its
on by temperature alone. Prices are dropping fast. Of course it doesn't
dim. Service life is effectively equal to the life of the house itself,
or so they claim.
so I suggest you try one for yourself and see how it works in your
fixtures. CFs make an unattractive light quality ( I have many - typ FL
problems with flicker and spectrum ) and don't actually last as long as
advertised for me.
*EV content:* You'd need a huge reflector and lens to make an LED
headlight, and it would cost as much as an HID anyway. Try the bicycle
and off-road motorcycle catalogs for small, efficient and easily
mounted
HID lights. Expect a high cost.
LED links: shop around! costs vary wildly!
http://www.superbrightleds.com/
http://www.amazon.com/s/103-9057299-1847827?ie=UTF8&search-alias=garden&field-brandtextbin=Cyron%20Light-bulb
http://www.ledlight.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=5
http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx
http://www.ledbulbs.com/
http://www.theledlight.com/120-VAC-LEDbulbs.html
https://www.shop.donsgreenstore.com/splashPage.hg
JF
David Roden wrote:
On 27 Apr 2007 at 6:07, murdoch wrote:
I have bought and tested one $40 LED bulb and verified their extreme
energy savings (though their color and brightness leave a lot to be
desired, at first glance).
Exactly. Household LED lighting saves energy - by being dim.
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On 29 Apr 2007 at 7:46, Steve wrote:
> Because 95% of my driving will be in the
> mountains, I really would like regen capabilities.
I know some people will probably disagree, but I would modify that statement
to read, "Because 95% of my driving will be in the mountains, I >NEED< regen
capabilities."
This is where regen not only comes into its own for range extension, and
it's where it can save your brakes and possibly your life. It's been my
observation that very few hobbyist conversions with series motors have
adequate brakes, and the lack of regen (or engine braking) increases the
risk.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Timothy Balcer wrote:
Is running 2 motors in series/parallel, assuming you're doing it with
the Zilla 1k, more or less efficient than running one larger motor at
1/2 the voltage?
The efficiency curves of the series DC motors typically used in EV
conversions are pretty flat over a wide range. But there are
differences; all things being equal, a motor is most efficient near its
nameplate rating. And, as motor rating goes up, its efficiency goes up
slightly. For example;
- a 10hp motor at 5hp is 84% efficient
- a 10hp motor at 10hp is 85% efficient
- a 20hp motor at 10hp is 85% efficient
- a 20hp motor at 20hp is 86% efficient
So, there is a small efficiency benefit from getting 20hp with one big
motor than from two smaller motors.
The *real* reason people use two motors is to solve a different problem
with series motors -- their horsepower drops drastically at higher rpm.
With a single motor and single-speed gear reducer, you'll have
tremendous amounts of torque at low speeds; more than you can use
without breaking things. But the torque falls so low at high rpm that
you can't get enough horsepower to climb hills or accelerate.
There are a number of ways to handle this:
1. Raise the pack voltage considerably above the motor's voltage.
For example, a 240-300v pack with a 72-120v motor. Raising the
voltage raises the current; thus the motor makes more torque.
The drawback is you need to specially insulate the motor, and
use a high voltage pack and controller.
2. Add field weakening.
For example, switch a resistor in parallel with the field so
half the field current goes through the resistor. This causes
the armature current to go up considerably, so much that you get
more torque despite the weakened field. The drawbacks are that it
lowers efficiency slightly, increases arcing, and can't be used
with a PWM controller which depends on the field for its inductance.
3. Use two motors, switched in series/parallel.
In series, they produce twice the torque per amp, but only run up
to about half speed (because each motor sees half the pack voltage).
In parallel, they produce normal torque per amp, but do so up to a
a higher speed. This setup can also eliminate the differential.
The drawback is the need for two motors and two gear reducers.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Don't forget that the cost of navigation system is more than
SOC meter itself and such a combo will likely be well over $1k.
Integration with existing one (unless done during OEM's design)
will be even more. Do you mind?
Also, do navigation systems have land altitude data for stored maps?
(Normally trip counters don't care and distances as in all atlases
are given as if the land is flat).
This is different vs. having altimeter to measure it after the fact as
you go, it's too late by then. It should warn you how much energy it
will take before you attempt the trip.
Honestly, if you want to hop in a car and visit your friend
will you bother to sit on the computer for half hour to make
a map if one offered by GPS is not how you want to get there?
But, while this is neat (and not new) idea, fundamental problem
remains - if GPS knows precisely your route and altitude changes,
it can calculate energy consumption for several speeds but still
won't predict how you'd choose (or will have to) drive.
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Lee!, combining with navigation system, Pure Genius!
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We get this question a fair bit. I don't see anything addressing it in the
FAQ.
http://www.evparts.com/faq/
Could it be added? If so, Lee, would you be willing to write a nice, even-
handed piece?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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A GPS usually puts out NMEA data which is just 9600 baud serial,
microcontrollers can read it, and so can any laptop with a serial port.
There's a tiny barometric sensor out there that can read with resolution
under a foot, although getting perfectly static air to ensure the
pressure is not raised or lowered at all by the forward motion of the
car may be a trick. About $25 but it requires mounting and a
microcontroller to read since it outputs SPI or I2C data. A version
mounted on a breakout board is here at Sparkfun
<http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8161>.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Don't forget that the cost of navigation system is more than
SOC meter itself and such a combo will likely be well over $1k.
Integration with existing one (unless done during OEM's design)
will be even more. Do you mind?
Also, do navigation systems have land altitude data for stored maps?
(Normally trip counters don't care and distances as in all atlases
are given as if the land is flat).
This is different vs. having altimeter to measure it after the fact as
you go, it's too late by then. It should warn you how much energy it
will take before you attempt the trip.
Honestly, if you want to hop in a car and visit your friend
will you bother to sit on the computer for half hour to make
a map if one offered by GPS is not how you want to get there?
But, while this is neat (and not new) idea, fundamental problem
remains - if GPS knows precisely your route and altitude changes,
it can calculate energy consumption for several speeds but still
won't predict how you'd choose (or will have to) drive.
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Lee!, combining with navigation system, Pure Genius!
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A 4 cylinder ICE points ignition puts out 2 pulses per rev, but an 8
puts out 4... Lots of aftermarket tachs will be switchable, usually 4,
6, 8 cylinder, set one of those for 8, should be good.
I'm working on the opposite problem: The AC24 I out in my 914 is rated
to 12000 RPM, my tach has a redline @ 5600... Fortunately the Solectria
controller has a software progammable output, I'll just have to plug in
a laptop to calibrate it.
Mike Scott in SJ, CA Got Juice? (First post, BTW)
damon henry wrote:
So if most tachs expect two pulses per revolution then I can either
build a circuit to skip half of the pulses (I would probably use a uP
for this and the saftey interlock) or I could just leave the pulses
alone and the tach will read twice the actual value. Both of those
choices sound accetable to me. Thanks for the help.
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I only wish the vendor of my ICE car (rhymes with levy) had put
this much thought into the fuel gauge. It is a relatively small/light
car with a big engine. I am a courier by trade and put ~100 miles/day
on the car. The fuel tank is sloped towards the bow of the car- thus
my 'fuel gauge' betrays a fictional 'regen' effect on Seattle's hills.
It's about a 10 gallon tank so the discrepancy is pretty severe. I've
learned not to rely on the gauge but to drive conservatively (as
limited by the requirements of my work) and try to keep the tank full.
I know the list doesn't care about my ICE habits. I mention them
because I felt the need to point out that my mass-produced ICE car
isn't any more accurate in its readings than listmembers' 'homebrew'
vehicles; and moreover that the list seems to be making a much greater
effort toward accuracy than the car companies have ever done. I'm
aware that the specific problems involved are apples and oranges, but
hey, GM could have made the effort...
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