EV Digest 6722
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Potential Candidates
by "Jo Prichard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: corvette conversion
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Dead start acceleration issues
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by "Brian Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Comercial Contactor Controller
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Comercial Contactor Controller
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Comercial Contactor Controller
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: cartoon
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Cog Calcs (was RE: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Cog Calcs (was RE: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: List settings
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: cartoon
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) GEM won't turn off
by "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Cog Calcs (was RE: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone
I've deleted the recent post regarding Kerb Weight vs Gross Vehicle Mass so
I'm hoping you don't mind enlightening me one more time.
I was looking at a Honda Jazz which I think might be a good possibility
because of the large (relative to the overall size of the car) boot\trunk.
Vehicle Mass (kg) 965/989
Gross Vehicle Mass (kg) 1470/1490
Gross Combination Mass (kg) 2470/2490
Boot Capacity to Window (Litres) 353/845 which means that you can pack
batteries in the trunk and still have space above to pack some cricket gear
in etc..
Thanks in advance
Jo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A alternator is a 3 phase 60 volt normal rating. It has a 3 phase bridge in
side it to rectified it to DC. If one side of the fields were wire directly
to ground and the regulator was remove out of the circuit, the voltage would
go to about 110 VDC at full rpm which would have to be about 3500 rpm or
greater main motor rpm. The alternator rpm is about 8000 to 10000 rpm.
Notice the small pulley on the alternator and large pulley on the prime
mover.
You can get these DC-DC alternator conversion packages at some auto part
stores.
The regulator controls the level of output DC from about 13.5 to 16 volts
depending of what type of alternator you have.
Yes you can charge the entire main battery pack no matter what voltage is
with a HD 145 amp at 12 volts rating which can be converted to 110 vdc at
7kw which is about 60 amps. Then you convert this with a Dynomote inverter
that is design for that alternator to 120 VAC 60 hz true sine wave which now
becomes 6kw output at 50 amps.
You have a REGEN control switch on the dash, that turns on this circuit,
which allows a Size 2 AC Magnetic Contactor to come on when you let up on
the accelerator control by use of a limit switch. This this turns on this
AC contactor which allows this AC current flow to a on board PFC-50 50 amp
battery charger you preset at the level you want.
Also, this limit switch circuits has to shut down two safety or isolation
contactors which are between the battery pack and controller. This is so
there is no feed back from the battery charger to the controller circuit.
If this REGEN circuit is on too long by going down a long hill, and if your
motor controller has to be pre charge again, then you controller has to be
recycle off and back on again every time the REGEN circuit comes off and the
battery contactors come back on again.
If this REGEN time is short and the controller capacitors are still charge,
than the controller does not have to be pre-charge.
I had this type of system in my original EV that had a CableForm controller
and a built in CableForm charger. There was no pre-charger circuit, but the
main contactor and safety contactors would all drop out during this time.
I now have a Zilla and a PFC-50 charger that will accept a voltage as low as
60 volts and as high as 425 volts. The Zilla has not built in REGEN circuit
at this time, So I am using the accessory drive REGEN where the motor auto
clutch to four accessories which drops out the accessories electric motors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
>
> (Hit me if I sound too stupid, I know squat about electronics).
>
> An alternator puts out AC right?
> The regulator converts it to DC with those magical zeners and genies and
> whatnot.
> I don't have an alternator to play with, nor do I have an oscope (its all
> moot).
> Whats the unregulated output of the alternator?
> What about those whomping 230 amp alternators? Whats their unregulated
> output?
>
> Would it be possible to rectify that, smooth it with a couple of caps, and
> recharge a portion of a battery pack?
>
> I know, this would result in an uneven pack....
>
> Suppose you could have this "cheap regen" flip around to charge different
> portions of the pack at different times, using some rube-goldberg
> relay-setup?
>
> Or, would it be better to step up the AC to 150 (or whatever you are
> using) - *then* convert it to DC, and have it charge the whole pack?
>
> I remember I had an old 74 Chevy impala (more steel than any 3 cars these
> days).
> The alternator belt was loose (I later tightened it) - it would charge the
> battery fine, if it wasn't too low.
> If the battery was really low, the belt would squeal, as the alternator
> tried to charge the battery (the lower the "pack" at that time, the harder
> the alternator would work to bring it back up).
>
> This has to be a function of the regulator...right? That behavior could be
> changed by altering the regulator -
> change the regulator so that the alternator only gave out so many amps no
> matter what, rather than trying to vary/regulate its charge each time...
> get rid of the zener diodes...
>
> There's no way that an alternator could recharge the pack (unless you're
> going 17 miles downhill....corvette conversion) - so overcharging
> shouldn't be an issue...
>
> Couldn't we use an alternator (or 2), stepped up, to provide a little
> juice back to the pack during braking? (have this whole thing turned on by
> a brake-pedal switch).
>
> Have a gas-pedal switch turn on 1 alternator when it is released, and the
> brake pedal turn on another, if its depressed a little....
> I know this is Rube-Goldberg...but I thought I'd ask anyway.
>
> http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Rube%20goldberg
>
>
> Ed Cooley
>
> I always heard that the transistors were there to protect the fuses in the
> circuit....
> I've also heard that transistors "were the fastest acting fuse known to
> mankind"....
>
> So - now you know what I know about electronics....
>
>
>
>
>
> "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 05/01/2007 13:40 Please respond to
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>
> To <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> cc
> Subject Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If your alternator is the older 3 wire type, using a small connector that
> plugs into the alternator, the small wire, which is about a No. 18 or 16
> wire, is the regulator wire that comes from the ignition key circuit.
>
> When the ignition key is in the start position, this shuts off this
> circuit,
> so the alternator is not on at the same time the starter motor is turning
> otherwise the alternator may be overloaded.
>
> Just regulator circuit off and the alternator will put 0 amps output. If
> it’s
> a one wire alternator, then Lee's method works good.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
>
>
> > From: Marty Hewes
> > > Since regulaters went internal, is there a way to do that without
> > > opening the output with a high current relay, and any idea what
> > > happens to an alternator if you open the output? Maybe an older
> > > alternator with an external regulator, would be a better bet.
> >
> > I'm sure there are experts on this that can respond in detail.
> >
> > But in general, you could just use a relay to open the alternator's
> > output
> > to your 12v accessory battery. Put a big resistor across this relay's
> > contact.
> >
> > When the relay is off, the charging current is low, and limited by this
> > resistor to a few amps. This provides enough to keep the alternator
> > happy
> > and ready, but will let the accessory battery slowly run down.
> >
> > When you step on the brake pedal, the tail light switch also turns on
> > this
> > relay. Since the accessory battery will have run down a little bit, the
> > alternator will deliver a huge current, just as it does immediately
> > after
> > starting an ICE, to bring the battery back up. This will provide your
> > regenerative braking.
> >
> > --
> > I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into
> > momentum. -- Frances Willard
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like Golden Gate Canyon.
> Stephen Paschke
> DAR, ERISA, Plan Review, and IPI/ICTMS support,
>TIAA-CREF Denver
> Senior Consultant
> Keane, Inc.
> Office 303-607-2993
> Cell 303-204-9280
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:44 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: corvette conversion
Hi,
3000+ foot climb in 17 miles to commute (back from) "the big city".
> > I know some people will probably disagree, but I would modify that
> statement
> > to read, "Because 95% of my driving will be in the mountains, I
> >NEED< regen
> > capabilities."
> >
>
> What do you define as mountains?
>
> Where I live there is a 600 foot difference betweenn the lower parts
> and the
> higher parts of the city, although, as there is also a 30 mile
> distance
> it is not that apparent in normal driving.
---
Steve
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See...
Now you know why I hardly ever use google.
Try using www.dogpile.com instead.
I doubt you'll ever go back to google....
For example dogpile and google contactor controller.....
dogpile returned this link
http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/html/101basics/Module19/Output/TheContactor.html
google did not
besides, when you send a search with dogpile it echoes google anyway.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of childreypa
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:25 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
>
> Hey everyone,
> I am the original poster. I seriously want to do a contactor controller,
> drum controller, disk controller, or any other type controller that will
> get the job done. At the moment, I have more time than money, and since
> this is my first project I want the experience, not just plugging wires
> into a magic box. I have the resources and the ability to make one. I
> just need info. As someone pointed out, contactor controllers basically
> go back to the stone age of the EV's so there is little information. I
> googled them all day and no success. Actually, most of the results are
> just EV List Archives posted by me. The library is an excellent idea.
> Ill go today, but in the event that I don't find much, does anyone have
> any diagrams or pictures. Maybe I've killed this topic but I just need a
> push start.
> Thanks again,
> Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice plug for dogpile Tim, but that page is about contactors. Paul is
looking for diagrams of multistep contactor controllers to vary the speed of
motors. I'm pretty confident he can already build the one speed motor
controller described on this page :-)
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: EV <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:15:29 -0600
See...
Now you know why I hardly ever use google.
Try using www.dogpile.com instead.
I doubt you'll ever go back to google....
For example dogpile and google contactor controller.....
dogpile returned this link
http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/html/101basics/Module19/Output/TheContactor.html
google did not
besides, when you send a search with dogpile it echoes google anyway.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of childreypa
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:25 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
>
> Hey everyone,
> I am the original poster. I seriously want to do a contactor controller,
> drum controller, disk controller, or any other type controller that will
> get the job done. At the moment, I have more time than money, and since
> this is my first project I want the experience, not just plugging wires
> into a magic box. I have the resources and the ability to make one. I
> just need info. As someone pointed out, contactor controllers basically
> go back to the stone age of the EV's so there is little information. I
> googled them all day and no success. Actually, most of the results are
> just EV List Archives posted by me. The library is an excellent idea.
> Ill go today, but in the event that I don't find much, does anyone have
> any diagrams or pictures. Maybe I've killed this topic but I just need a
> push start.
> Thanks again,
> Paul
_________________________________________________________________
Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate
new payment
http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-19132&moid=14888
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> 90v x 320a = 28,800 watts = 28.8 horsepower. That's
pretty anemic for accellerating a 3000 lbs car.
My similar weight, similar voltage car draws similar
peak battery current and has plenty of acceleration
if I start in 1st gear at a 11.5 overall ratio and
shift at 4000 RPM at 25 MPH and 40 MPH. (For
efficiency I typically shift 5 MPH higher.) But my
pack drops only to the 135V I expect during typical
short bursts, which is 44 kW in and 44 HP out, or 50%
more than Bob's. Bob, sounds like you've got some
serious resistance lurking around somewhere.
But it's noteworthy to mention that I'm as happy with
my 44 HP EV peak as I was with my 120 HP ICE peak. As
an EV it isn't as good on the freeway and I can't
floor it continuously as the batteries will start to
sag after a while, and I haven't taken actual
acceleration data yet, but I was thinking the
apples-to-oranges comparison ratio was closer to 1.3
than twice that. Gotta love that wide RPM high torque
band...
My original differential provided a 9.5 overall ratio
in 1st gear, and was sluggish and would regularly
overheat the controller. The current differential
solved that, but I am now battling efficiency, looking
at a new differential that would bring my overall
ratio up to 13.0. That clutch and transmission sure
are worth their 5% weight penalty and losses and
additional maintenance. I also have brake calipers
from Stainless Steel Brake on order to eliminate my
chronic front disc brake drag design problem -- they
barely spin freely at the moment. And I now run the
tires at max pressure of 35 PSI.
But these latter issues are all minor compared to the
resistance you seem to have Bob. Good luck and let us
know what you find.
Chris
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
The gps receivers only listen to the satelites to figure out where
they are, what their altitude is, and what time it is. All of the
information about roads, speed limits, gas stations, etc are stored in
a local database that the routing software uses. RV and off road
hiking/driving software tend to work with altitudes to predict how
steep the hike/drive is going to be. Most car software focuses on
roads and points of interest instead.
Brian
On 5/1/07, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are, but I don't think those which are being broadcasted
(received by Prius nav system and such) have this data - ICE cars
can'treally take advantage of it. I may be wrong though.
Victor
Brian Fox wrote:
> There are gps routing packages that include altitude in their
> database. I have an old copy of Delorme's Topo program that will
> route and provide an altitude profile along with max gradient info.
> Routing programs that target RVs might be a good starting point
> because some RVs try to avoid steep hills.
>
> Brian
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tried searching for "contactor controller" (without the quotes) using
both Google and Dogpile, and both brought up this as the first link:
http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/cntctcon.asp
Ralph
damon henry writes:
>
> Nice plug for dogpile Tim, but that page is about contactors. Paul is
> looking for diagrams of multistep contactor controllers to vary the speed of
> motors. I'm pretty confident he can already build the one speed motor
> controller described on this page :-)
>
>
> >From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: EV <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
> >Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:15:29 -0600
> >
> >
> >See...
> >
> >Now you know why I hardly ever use google.
> >
> >Try using www.dogpile.com instead.
> >
> >I doubt you'll ever go back to google....
> >
> >For example dogpile and google contactor controller.....
> >
> >dogpile returned this link
> >
> >http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/html/101basics/Module19/Output/TheContactor.html
> >
> >google did not
> >
> >besides, when you send a search with dogpile it echoes google anyway.
> >
> >--
> >Stay Charged!
> >Hump
> >I-5, Blossvale NY
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of childreypa
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:25 PM
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
> > >
> > > Hey everyone,
> > > I am the original poster. I seriously want to do a contactor controller,
> > > drum controller, disk controller, or any other type controller that will
> > > get the job done. At the moment, I have more time than money, and since
> > > this is my first project I want the experience, not just plugging wires
> > > into a magic box. I have the resources and the ability to make one. I
> > > just need info. As someone pointed out, contactor controllers basically
> > > go back to the stone age of the EV's so there is little information. I
> > > googled them all day and no success. Actually, most of the results are
> > > just EV List Archives posted by me. The library is an excellent idea.
> > > Ill go today, but in the event that I don't find much, does anyone have
> > > any diagrams or pictures. Maybe I've killed this topic but I just need a
> > > push start.
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Paul
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate
> new payment
> http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-19132&moid=14888
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For forgotten technologies, books are the way forward, but Google can
still help.
http://books.google.com/books?q=drum+controller&btnG=Search+Books
For example, the 1933 tome "Experimental Electrical Engineering.."
Has sections on "study of a DC contactor type controller" and "wiring
of an experimental drum type controller".
Now, you can't access this particular book online in full, but it does
tell you which library to visit to borrow a copy, or you can even buy
a copy online from Amazon, for $20!
And there are plenty of works on there which are available in full.
So, get reading, there is 100 years of catching up to do! :)
On 5/1/07, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nice plug for dogpile Tim, but that page is about contactors. Paul is
looking for diagrams of multistep contactor controllers to vary the speed of
motors. I'm pretty confident he can already build the one speed motor
controller described on this page :-)
>From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: EV <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:15:29 -0600
>
>
>See...
>
>Now you know why I hardly ever use google.
>
>Try using www.dogpile.com instead.
>
>I doubt you'll ever go back to google....
>
>For example dogpile and google contactor controller.....
>
>dogpile returned this link
>
>http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/html/101basics/Module19/Output/TheContactor.html
>
>google did not
>
>besides, when you send a search with dogpile it echoes google anyway.
>
>--
>Stay Charged!
>Hump
>I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of childreypa
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:25 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
> >
> > Hey everyone,
> > I am the original poster. I seriously want to do a contactor controller,
> > drum controller, disk controller, or any other type controller that will
> > get the job done. At the moment, I have more time than money, and since
> > this is my first project I want the experience, not just plugging wires
> > into a magic box. I have the resources and the ability to make one. I
> > just need info. As someone pointed out, contactor controllers basically
> > go back to the stone age of the EV's so there is little information. I
> > googled them all day and no success. Actually, most of the results are
> > just EV List Archives posted by me. The library is an excellent idea.
> > Ill go today, but in the event that I don't find much, does anyone have
> > any diagrams or pictures. Maybe I've killed this topic but I just need a
> > push start.
> > Thanks again,
> > Paul
>
_________________________________________________________________
Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate
new payment
http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-19132&moid=14888
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to the following Yahoo group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/files/
After signing in, look at the Page1.jpeg and Page2.jpeg files, which show
3-step contactor and 3-step rectactor circuits, respectively.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I chose to go a different way and replace the rear springs in my EV with
Ford Ranger front truck springs. With the Gabriel Hi-jacker air shocks I
can set my height once the batteries are in. Right now it sits a bit higher
in the back than the front but I know that will change. Actually it looks
pretty good...kinda like what they did in the 60's raising the back of cars
up...
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
I wrote this back on the 20th and got great response about ways to raise
the rear ride height. Dave H. responded with concern about putting all the
batteries in the bed because of what it does to the front end. I went
ahead and connected up all my components and made a few proof of concept
movements around the driveway under battery power, and now I am back to my
weight distribution issue.
Based on the response from mid april, it would seem that I can fix my
rear ride height with additional springs, but I now share Dave H's issue
about the front end. I don't know much about autos but it doesn't seem
that anything but additional weight in the front can fix that end. Are
there adjustments that can be made to the suspension of truck to shift
weight forward?
I temporarily put 4 of my batteries up in the engine compartment and it
"looks" much better. The from ride height is close to where it was pre
conversion, but the rear is still low. Currently the weight of the 4
batteries is being distributed to the old engine mounts that are about
even with the front wheels. If I put permanently put batteries up from
thel will be forward of the front wheels so 4 may be the right number.
I wanted to keep all the batteries in the bed because it seemed easier,
but also so they would all be in one location to have 1 insulated battery
box for temperature consistency. (I am in Western MA)
Was I being overly concerned about maintaining consistent battery
temperatures? (I'm using Interstate flooded lead)
Am I correct that if I insulate some of my batteries I need to insulate
them all?
Having to rearrange everything would be a bit of a disappointing setback
but I fear I may have to.
On Apr 20, 2007, at 10:07 PM, John O'Connor wrote:
HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
I loaded all my batteries in the back of my pick-up conversion
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/791 ) and I see that the rear end is
riding very low. Looking back at my project notebook, the rear end has
dropped about 4 inches and the front is about 1 inch higher. Am I likely
to be able to "fix" this situation with a trip to a suspension shop?
John
Hopefully making an inaugural EV trip this weekend
(at least I was able to make the inaugral EV trip in the driveway!)
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FWIW I've seen some cities that uses busses powered this way. A pair of
overhead wires and a special gantry assembly on the top of the bus.
Some of them have battery power to provide a limited operating range away
from the power lines.
Google trolleybus for more information.
>> Just thought you might chuckle at this.
>> http://comics.com/wash/bonanas/archive/bonanas-20070428.html
>
> Thanks for my laugh of the day. It reminds me of one I saw with the couple
> driving their nice new car up the entrance ramp to a freeway at rush hour.
> The freeway is jammed solid with cars... and they are all carnival bumper
> cars. The drivers are slam-banging their way along, shoving each other
> aside, waving insults, etc.
>
> But, I have to wonder... what would it be like to build electrified roads
> like this, with overhead wires and electric cars without batteries? It
> might work!
>
> --
> I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into
> momentum. -- Frances Willard
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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Hi Roland,
Can you really get 7kw out of an alternator that was designed to do about 2?
Have you got data on that conversion? I don't doubt that it could output
110V, or 145 amps, but was it designed to do both at once? That sounds like
it would get hot. I'm also wondering what kind of belt drive it would take
to drive 7kw? Probably not the original single V belt.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
A alternator is a 3 phase 60 volt normal rating. It has a 3 phase bridge in
side it to rectified it to DC. If one side of the fields were wire directly
to ground and the regulator was remove out of the circuit, the voltage would
go to about 110 VDC at full rpm which would have to be about 3500 rpm or
greater main motor rpm. The alternator rpm is about 8000 to 10000 rpm.
Notice the small pulley on the alternator and large pulley on the prime
mover.
You can get these DC-DC alternator conversion packages at some auto part
stores.
The regulator controls the level of output DC from about 13.5 to 16 volts
depending of what type of alternator you have.
Yes you can charge the entire main battery pack no matter what voltage is
with a HD 145 amp at 12 volts rating which can be converted to 110 vdc at
7kw which is about 60 amps. Then you convert this with a Dynomote inverter
that is design for that alternator to 120 VAC 60 hz true sine wave which now
becomes 6kw output at 50 amps.
You have a REGEN control switch on the dash, that turns on this circuit,
which allows a Size 2 AC Magnetic Contactor to come on when you let up on
the accelerator control by use of a limit switch. This this turns on this
AC contactor which allows this AC current flow to a on board PFC-50 50 amp
battery charger you preset at the level you want.
Also, this limit switch circuits has to shut down two safety or isolation
contactors which are between the battery pack and controller. This is so
there is no feed back from the battery charger to the controller circuit.
If this REGEN circuit is on too long by going down a long hill, and if your
motor controller has to be pre charge again, then you controller has to be
recycle off and back on again every time the REGEN circuit comes off and the
battery contactors come back on again.
If this REGEN time is short and the controller capacitors are still charge,
than the controller does not have to be pre-charge.
I had this type of system in my original EV that had a CableForm controller
and a built in CableForm charger. There was no pre-charger circuit, but the
main contactor and safety contactors would all drop out during this time.
I now have a Zilla and a PFC-50 charger that will accept a voltage as low as
60 volts and as high as 425 volts. The Zilla has not built in REGEN circuit
at this time, So I am using the accessory drive REGEN where the motor auto
clutch to four accessories which drops out the accessories electric motors.
Roland
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CAUTION: there is some current discussion about redlines now for ADC
6.7" and 8" motors...
...be sure to take the right data for the right motor!
FWIW, I posted Uve's 8K calculator data to shake some of this discussion
out -- thanks, all, for stepping up with real world recommendations.
I'll dial in the gearing with 6K as an initial number.
Per Peter's recent post:
Assuming the motor produces enough power for your application,
pick
your highest desired speed and gear the motor such that it hits
max
RPM on or slightly above this speed.
That first sentence makes me squirm (I'm too new to EVs to make such
assumptions!), but per the recommendations of others, I think it'll do.
Working the math out assuming 60mph max and 6K redline, driving a 24"
(2') diameter wheel (just for the sake of discussion -- that's still
TBD), with a 6.28' circumference, that makes 841 wheel rpm (5280' per
mile / 6.28' per rev). To redline the motor at 6K, the ratio would be
7.14:1 (6K rpm at motor / 841 rpm at wheel).
Run the same calcs again with the ability to go 75 to keep from clogging
up traffic,
- 70mph and 6K, driving a 24" diam wheel, with a 6.28' circumference
(70mph/60hpm*5280'/(6.28'/rev)) = 981 wheel rpm
- to redline the motor at 6K, the ratio would be 6.12:1 (6K rpm at motor
/ 841 rpm at wheel).
In a side email to Damon, I know that he runs 41:14 on his motorcycle,
which is closer to 3:1, so I suspect that I'll be accumulating a stack
of cogs to dial in speed/performance for my trike. I'll hope that I can
find a 'sweet spot' by twiddling with gearing, batteries, weight, and
controller, but this underlines the barriers to entry for potential EV
enthusiasts.
Again, continuing Peter's recent post:
This will give you the maximum available wheel torque without
over revving
the motor. If this is not enough torque to climb hills in your
area, you
need a bigger controller and possibly motor.
Thanks, I think I have a rough guideline now. The second sentence is
worrisome, but underlines the trial-and-error process of putting
together an EV system. It would be easier to stomach if the pieces
weren't so costly, or if a more clear cook-book existed, but I guess
I've got to pay if I want to play. Thus, I'm plunking down coin for an
ADC 6.7
Randii
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:32 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.
Hey Damon
Sorry I left ya hanging on this one D. As you stated last post I'd stay
at or below 6K on the 6.7's, they've lost their tug anyway at that RPM
so why go above it. Better safe than sorry as it takes but a
nano-second for them to blow. I'm sure people have gotten away with
higher but you'd be in the danger zone as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway just wanted to chime in here real fast.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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<snip>
> ...I'm too new to EVs to make such assumptions...
<snip>
First off, thanks to the more experienced listees who are willing to
share both their experience and their opinions (the latter drives the
former -- I know that Jerry Dycus must be more conservative with his
acceleration, for instance, than Bill Dube!)
<snip>
> ...I'll hope that I can find a 'sweet spot' by twiddling with gearing,
> batteries, weight, and controller, but this underlines the barriers
> to entry for potential EV enthusiasts.
There is no true cookbook available, and there are seemingly few and
small sweet-spots on convergence between motor, charger, battery
technology, and weight, unless one is willing to lower one's standards
beyond the relative standards available in ICE context. There's just too
many axis converging on too few areas of opportunity... ARGH!
* Glass half full: pick one variable, and the other pieces start to fall
into place.
* Glass half empty: pick one variable, and your other choices start
constricting.
Thanks, all, for helping me pick the first piece of the puzzle --
Damon's used ADC 6.7. That simplifies my next set of choices, I just
hope that at the other end of this funnel of decisions, I'll be zipping
around in a lightweight tail dragger that can make my commute without
murdering the pack, meet my expectations for acceleration, and plaster
an EV grin across my face.
Still better if it looks good and impresses others, best of all if my
wife likes it.
Randii
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On 1 May 2007 at 10:33, Geoffrey Strawbridge wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me how you adjust the settings for this list. Ex.
> digest vs. individual post and how to turn on and off email etc.
The support page is here :
http://www.evdl.org/help/
Bookmark that page. The procedures will be changing soon as we convert to
different listserver software, but the configuration procedures will always be
documented there.
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On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:40:20 -0500, you wrote:
>
> Just thought you might chuckle at this.
>
>http://comics.com/wash/bonanas/archive/bonanas-20070428.html
>
It also puts a perspective on the publics grasp about what an
electric car is.
R. Matt Milliron
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
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> At the moment, I have more time than money, and since this is my first
> project I want the experience, not just plugging wires into a magic
box.
I'm at the inverse in the money/time balance, for the next month, then
will migrate towards somewhere between the extremes. Perhaps we can
cooperate? In any case, please post up your progress! :cool:
> I have the resources and the ability to make one.
If it helps expand those resources and abilities, I have access to a
reasonable-equipped prototype shop through my employer, as well as
moderate machining skill on my own. If you need bits created, I'd be
willing to assist, with availability in late May.
> I'll go today, but in the event that I don't find much, does anyone
have
> any diagrams or pictures.
A few links I have queued:
* Nice: http://www.ekaton.ltd.uk/images/products/0010.jpg
* CHEAP but creative: http://www.poormansev.com/id24.html
* Big ol' resistive controller:
http://www.maxmatic.com/Graphics/susie19.jpg
That comment about the 'Google Generation' hit me right between the
eyes, BTW! :D
> Maybe I've killed this topic but I just need a push start.
Don't let it die, Paul -- there are those of us out there who are
following these threads with enthusiasm.
Certainly a Zilla, Raptor, Curtis, etc. is most appropriate for many,
but I've spoken with a small handful of folks who'd jump to making their
own barrel/disk contact controller, if it was more clear how to execute
it.
Randii
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'02 GEM will NOT turn off, unless I turn off the first battery pack (2
battery packs of 6).
If the battery switch is on, the GEM will run without a key.
Fuse?
Suggestions?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
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What direction is an ADC 6.7 motor set up to rotate looking at the large
output shaft end?
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Correction:
As Bullwinkle used to say, "Guess I don't know my own strength".
Earlier I guessed the Turbo Hydro to be about 75 or 80 pounds without the
converter from what it felt like carrying it. I weighed it. The trans,
without converter, weighs in at 122 lbs. The converter weighs 35. The TCI
converter eliminator hub weighs 5 lbs. Don't want to leave bad info
floating around.
I've been thinking about Roger's suggestion that you really need an upshift
for a passing gear, not a downshift. That sounds like an interesting use
for an overdrive automatic, normally drive in 3rd, go to overdrive to pass.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
The transmission will be an interesting experiment. I haven't weighed it,
but from carrying it, I'd guess it's 75 or 80 lbs without the converter.
It's pretty beefy. It may be overkill, but maybe not if I dump 1500 amps
through a contactor into a 9 inch motor. It will get me a reverse and
about 2.5 times torque multiplication to get rolling. Another issue that
I will have to address is the vacuum modulator. The Turbo 350 normally
uses manifold vacuum to influence shift hardness and, I believe, shift
points. I may have to figure out a way to use modulated power brake
vacuum to simulate manifold vacuum. I think the tricky thing will be
seperating shift firmness from shift point. Normally an ICE trans raises
both at full throttle. With an electric, I believe we want to keep shift
points high all the time, but still vary shift firmness.
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Randy Burleson wrote:
> Per Peter's recent post:
> Auming the motor produces enough power for your application,
> pick your highest desired speed and gear the motor such that
> it hits max RPM on or slightly above this speed.
>
> That first sentence makes me squirm (I'm too new to EVs to make such
> assumptions!), but per the recommendations of others, I think
> it'll do.
That you've already found Uve's calculator and aren't afraid to use it
bodes well. ;^>
Perhaps you've mentioned your planned vehicle specs in the past and I've
forgotten, but at this point all I have to work with is that you plan a
lightweight 2f1r vehicle with a 6.7" ADC and want to keep up with 75mph
traffic.
The big question is how much power will the vehicle need to maintain a
given speed (e.g. 60mph or 75mph). Since you are not converting a
vehicle for which CdA data is available, this might be tricky. Playing
with Uve's calculator (1400lb after conversion, 0.25Cd, 12ft^2 A, 0.95
drive efficiency, 0.0015 rolling resistance and 0.003 brake/steering
drag, and 185/75R14 tires for 839.8rev/mi), yields an estimate of 5.7HP
@ 60mph, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and [EMAIL PROTECTED] (still air, no incline).
Assuming the 6.7" you're considering is the K91 flavour, then the curves
on EV Parts' site suggests that on 75V it can only sustain the 11+HP
required for 70mph+ speeds (best case; figure on more power with a
headwind or even a slight grade) for 5-15min. At 96V it can do 12hp+
for up to 30min before overheating.
At 75V, 12.5HP is hit at about 3000RPM; on 96V you're up to about
4000RPM.
So, while Peter is right that gearing for the redline at your top speed
will ensure you have the lowest possible gear ratio you can use, it does
not mean you will actually be able to pull redline/top speed (which is
what he means when stating the assumption that the motor has enough
power for your application). You will only be able to spin the motor up
until the power you require to maintain the present speed is equal to
the motor's output.
> Again, continuing Peter's recent post:
> This will give you the maximum available wheel torque without
> over revving the motor. If this is not enough torque to climb
> hills in your area, you need a bigger controller and possibly
> motor.
>
> Thanks, I think I have a rough guideline now. The second sentence is
> worrisome, but underlines the trial-and-error process of putting
> together an EV system.
Play with Uve's calculator for a bit, dialing in inclines of the sort of
roads you will need to drive on and see what happens to the HP/torque
requirements. You can figure out how much torque per amp your motor
produces from the published curves, and thus how much (motor) current
your batteries and controller need to be able to deliver. You may not
eliminate all of the trial and error, but you ought to be able to
sidestep a bunch of it.
Cheers,
Roger.
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