EV Digest 6723
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: GEM won't turn off
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Cog Calcs (was RE: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.)
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Potential Candidates
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: corvette conversion
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) ADC 203-06-4001 Confusion
by Joel Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Brake drag
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
There is more then one flavor, so there is no way to know without more
details. If it is a 4 terminal motor you get to decide which way it spins.
damon
From: "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:04:57 -0700
What direction is an ADC 6.7 motor set up to rotate looking at the large
output shaft end?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark
That depends on which one you have. If it's a drive
motor it can turn both directions if it's a pump motor
than it's kind of locked into one or the other.
Most cars use a CCWDE rotation except Honda's. Anyway
not quite enough info to go on.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What direction is an ADC 6.7 motor set up to rotate
> looking at the large
> output shaft end?
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--- Begin Message ---
Well I think I have them situated to get the most weight forward of
the rear axle. Have them aligned so that the long end of sides of the
batteries are perpendicular to the axle. One row of 7, three rows of
5 and the final 2 are parallel to the axle. One row of 5 is directly
above the axle the the other 2 are behind the axles.
I was counting on more of the weight in the bed being transferred to
the front axle than appears to be happening. I stopped in at a local
Firestone and they said I could add additional leaf springs and heavy
duty shocks to the rear end and drop springs to the front.
Does dropping the front and raising the rear back to ICE levels
result in weight transfer from the rear to the front?
On May 1, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Miller, John wrote:
John,
I am assuming that your batteries are in the front of the bed of your
pick up which would put them in front of the rear wheels. If this
is so
then your weight distribution is already partially supported by your
front wheels so keeping them on the ground should just be a matter of
finding a good front/rear suspension combination. Yes for optimal
handling you would want to more evenly distribute the batteries but
you
would still be looking at beefing up the suspension. Remember your
driving a pickup truck not a formula one race car. Keeping the
batteries
together in the back does have its benefits. I would suggest adding
spring and heavy duty shocks to both the front and rear and maybe a
lift
kit in the back and see what you get before you give up your idea of
keeping the batteries altogether in the back. Just my $.02 worth.
John Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: John O'Connor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:11 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
I wrote this back on the 20th and got great response about ways to
raise the rear ride height. Dave H. responded with concern about
putting all the batteries in the bed because of what it does to the
front end. I went ahead and connected up all my components and made a
few proof of concept movements around the driveway under battery
power, and now I am back to my weight distribution issue.
Based on the response from mid april, it would seem that I can fix my
rear ride height with additional springs, but I now share Dave H's
issue about the front end. I don't know much about autos but it
doesn't seem that anything but additional weight in the front can fix
that end. Are there adjustments that can be made to the suspension of
truck to shift weight forward?
I temporarily put 4 of my batteries up in the engine compartment and
it "looks" much better. The from ride height is close to where it was
pre conversion, but the rear is still low. Currently the weight of
the 4 batteries is being distributed to the old engine mounts that
are about even with the front wheels. If I put permanently put
batteries up from thel will be forward of the front wheels so 4 may
be the right number.
I wanted to keep all the batteries in the bed because it seemed
easier, but also so they would all be in one location to have 1
insulated battery box for temperature consistency. (I am in Western
MA)
Was I being overly concerned about maintaining consistent battery
temperatures? (I'm using Interstate flooded lead)
Am I correct that if I insulate some of my batteries I need to
insulate them all?
Having to rearrange everything would be a bit of a disappointing
setback but I fear I may have to.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Marty,
The alternator I am using is a Delco Model 1117152 12 volt neg. 145 amps
w/inverter taps. It is design for extra heavy electrical loads and high
charge at idle. This is a large unit, as large as a 8 inch ADC motor.
It has seven terminals studs large enough for 2/0 terminal lugs. And has a
external regulator adjustment for adjusting the output voltage from 13.5 to
16 volts.
It has three external terminals (field +), (field -) and (trio) terminals
for use with a 110-volt, 60 Hz power inverter manufactured by the Dynamote
Corporation which was located at 1200 West Nickerson, Seattle WA 98119 at
the time which was back in 1976.
The inverter is rated for 7200-watts but is kept at 6,000 watts for 120 VAC
60 Hz and at the same time can supply 12 volt charging current.
There is two types of Dynamote Inverters:
One is a Model Number B60-120 that can run off a 100 volt battery pack, that
has a output of 7200 watts at 120 volts 60 Hz.
Because my battery pack is 180 volts, I am using one that is design to run
off the above inverter/alternator. The Model Number is A60-120 that has a
output of 7200 watts at 120 volts 60 Hz.
The belts are a double banded industrial cog belt. It uses a industrial QD
taper lock pulley.
This unit is design to charge deep cycle batteries, not your cranking type
battery. It has a external regulator control, which can shut down the
alternator allowing the accessory battery to discharge to about 70% SOC
allowing less load on the main motor or two 3 hp drive motors.
Sequence of operation:
On start up of the EV, the main motor pilot shaft is engage with a electric
clutch to the accessory drives. When the accessory drive rpm is up, then
the main motor disconnects and two electric drive motors take over. This
method allow for less load on the electric drive motors.
I have the option of selecting a manual off auto REGEN mode when I coast
down at any time, the electric drive motors go off line and the main motor
drives the accessories while the main motor is a reconnects giving me
accessory drive REGEN. I normally use this mode in the winter time on very
icy steep hills which slows me down like compression of a engine.
In the summer, I just let the EV run out. On a hill that is two miles long,
the EV will get up to 80 mph, and will run another 2 miles until it gets
down to 50 mph, which is just right at the exit turn. The exit turn is a
slight up hill which I am still going 35 mph and than another down hill for
a mile to a stop light. If the stop light is green, than I can turn left
and continue down hill for four blocks and turn left right into my garage
without using any motor power for over 5 miles.
A engineer down the street from me, has a light weight EV and has to apply
motor power to make the last 2 miles.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
> Hi Roland,
>
> Can you really get 7kw out of an alternator that was designed to do about
> 2?
> Have you got data on that conversion? I don't doubt that it could output
> 110V, or 145 amps, but was it designed to do both at once? That sounds
> like
> it would get hot. I'm also wondering what kind of belt drive it would
> take
> to drive 7kw? Probably not the original single V belt.
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
>
>
> A alternator is a 3 phase 60 volt normal rating. It has a 3 phase bridge
> in
> side it to rectified it to DC. If one side of the fields were wire
> directly
> to ground and the regulator was remove out of the circuit, the voltage
> would
> go to about 110 VDC at full rpm which would have to be about 3500 rpm or
> greater main motor rpm. The alternator rpm is about 8000 to 10000 rpm.
> Notice the small pulley on the alternator and large pulley on the prime
> mover.
>
> You can get these DC-DC alternator conversion packages at some auto part
> stores.
>
> The regulator controls the level of output DC from about 13.5 to 16 volts
> depending of what type of alternator you have.
>
> Yes you can charge the entire main battery pack no matter what voltage is
> with a HD 145 amp at 12 volts rating which can be converted to 110 vdc at
> 7kw which is about 60 amps. Then you convert this with a Dynomote
> inverter
> that is design for that alternator to 120 VAC 60 hz true sine wave which
> now
> becomes 6kw output at 50 amps.
>
> You have a REGEN control switch on the dash, that turns on this circuit,
> which allows a Size 2 AC Magnetic Contactor to come on when you let up on
> the accelerator control by use of a limit switch. This this turns on this
> AC contactor which allows this AC current flow to a on board PFC-50 50
> amp
> battery charger you preset at the level you want.
>
> Also, this limit switch circuits has to shut down two safety or isolation
> contactors which are between the battery pack and controller. This is so
> there is no feed back from the battery charger to the controller circuit.
>
> If this REGEN circuit is on too long by going down a long hill, and if
> your
> motor controller has to be pre charge again, then you controller has to be
> recycle off and back on again every time the REGEN circuit comes off and
> the
> battery contactors come back on again.
>
> If this REGEN time is short and the controller capacitors are still
> charge,
> than the controller does not have to be pre-charge.
>
> I had this type of system in my original EV that had a CableForm
> controller
> and a built in CableForm charger. There was no pre-charger circuit, but
> the
> main contactor and safety contactors would all drop out during this time.
>
> I now have a Zilla and a PFC-50 charger that will accept a voltage as low
> as
> 60 volts and as high as 425 volts. The Zilla has not built in REGEN
> circuit
> at this time, So I am using the accessory drive REGEN where the motor auto
> clutch to four accessories which drops out the accessories electric
> motors.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Marty,
It looks like you got your transmission from TCI before I did. Lets us know
how it goes, so we can learn from your methods.
I am also using a TH-350 turbo, with a torque converter eliminator shaft,
but with a manual value body, where I will have to shift it in manual mode.
This can eliminate the vacuum modulator.
Also if you tap the front pump boss in the pressure side and return side,
you can have a hydraulic pump with a limit switch pump up the oil pressure
before you take off. I had a local transmission shop show me how to do
this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
> Correction:
>
> As Bullwinkle used to say, "Guess I don't know my own strength".
>
> Earlier I guessed the Turbo Hydro to be about 75 or 80 pounds without the
> converter from what it felt like carrying it. I weighed it. The trans,
> without converter, weighs in at 122 lbs. The converter weighs 35. The
> TCI
> converter eliminator hub weighs 5 lbs. Don't want to leave bad info
> floating around.
>
> I've been thinking about Roger's suggestion that you really need an
> upshift
> for a passing gear, not a downshift. That sounds like an interesting use
> for an overdrive automatic, normally drive in 3rd, go to overdrive to
> pass.
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
>
>
> > The transmission will be an interesting experiment. I haven't weighed
> > it,
> > but from carrying it, I'd guess it's 75 or 80 lbs without the converter.
> > It's pretty beefy. It may be overkill, but maybe not if I dump 1500
> > amps
> > through a contactor into a 9 inch motor. It will get me a reverse and
> > about 2.5 times torque multiplication to get rolling. Another issue
> > that
> > I will have to address is the vacuum modulator. The Turbo 350 normally
> > uses manifold vacuum to influence shift hardness and, I believe, shift
> > points. I may have to figure out a way to use modulated power brake
> > vacuum to simulate manifold vacuum. I think the tricky thing will be
> > seperating shift firmness from shift point. Normally an ICE trans
> > raises
> > both at full throttle. With an electric, I believe we want to keep
> > shift
> > points high all the time, but still vary shift firmness.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not a GEM guru, but this sounds like the main contactor is welded
shut. Welded contactor can often be caused by trouble with the
pre-charge circuit or a burned out pre-charge resistor. At least this
is what I would suspect if it were a typical EV.
Bill Dube'
At 04:53 PM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
'02 GEM will NOT turn off, unless I turn off the first battery pack
(2 battery packs of 6).
If the battery switch is on, the GEM will run without a key.
Fuse?
Suggestions?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Personally, the idea of having to drop the front and raise the rear scares
the heck out of me. If the front bumper is higher than a stock truck, I'd
worry. Raising the rear an inch or two wouldn't surprise me, but this
sounds excessive. Changing springs doesn't transfer weight, that just masks
the fact that the front/rear weight balance is out of whack. I'd expect two
problems with having that much rear weight bias. When you hit the brakes,
you're likely to lock up the fronts early and lose the ability to steer, and
if you get into an exit ramp too fast or try an emergency evasive maneuver,
you're likely to leave the road backwards. Granted pickups are designed to
some extent to carry loads in the rear, but this sounds excessive to me. I
wouldn't want to have less weight on the front axle than it had with the ICE
in there. Also, how much weight have you got on the rear axle and what is
the rear axle GVWR rating? You may be pushing the limits of the wheel
bearings and rear brakes as well as the tires.
The only thing that actually transfers weight to the front is putting weight
closer to the front axle than the rear axle. The farther forward, the
better. If you can get some weight forward of the front axle, that's even
better, as it will push that much harder on the front and actually take a
little weight off the rear, but it might risk splashing acid in a front end
collision.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
Well I think I have them situated to get the most weight forward of the
rear axle. Have them aligned so that the long end of sides of the
batteries are perpendicular to the axle. One row of 7, three rows of 5
and the final 2 are parallel to the axle. One row of 5 is directly above
the axle the the other 2 are behind the axles.
I was counting on more of the weight in the bed being transferred to the
front axle than appears to be happening. I stopped in at a local
Firestone and they said I could add additional leaf springs and heavy
duty shocks to the rear end and drop springs to the front.
Does dropping the front and raising the rear back to ICE levels result in
weight transfer from the rear to the front?
On May 1, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Miller, John wrote:
John,
I am assuming that your batteries are in the front of the bed of your
pick up which would put them in front of the rear wheels. If this is so
then your weight distribution is already partially supported by your
front wheels so keeping them on the ground should just be a matter of
finding a good front/rear suspension combination. Yes for optimal
handling you would want to more evenly distribute the batteries but you
would still be looking at beefing up the suspension. Remember your
driving a pickup truck not a formula one race car. Keeping the batteries
together in the back does have its benefits. I would suggest adding
spring and heavy duty shocks to both the front and rear and maybe a lift
kit in the back and see what you get before you give up your idea of
keeping the batteries altogether in the back. Just my $.02 worth.
John Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: John O'Connor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:11 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
I wrote this back on the 20th and got great response about ways to
raise the rear ride height. Dave H. responded with concern about
putting all the batteries in the bed because of what it does to the
front end. I went ahead and connected up all my components and made a
few proof of concept movements around the driveway under battery
power, and now I am back to my weight distribution issue.
Based on the response from mid april, it would seem that I can fix my
rear ride height with additional springs, but I now share Dave H's
issue about the front end. I don't know much about autos but it
doesn't seem that anything but additional weight in the front can fix
that end. Are there adjustments that can be made to the suspension of
truck to shift weight forward?
I temporarily put 4 of my batteries up in the engine compartment and
it "looks" much better. The from ride height is close to where it was
pre conversion, but the rear is still low. Currently the weight of
the 4 batteries is being distributed to the old engine mounts that
are about even with the front wheels. If I put permanently put
batteries up from thel will be forward of the front wheels so 4 may
be the right number.
I wanted to keep all the batteries in the bed because it seemed
easier, but also so they would all be in one location to have 1
insulated battery box for temperature consistency. (I am in Western MA)
Was I being overly concerned about maintaining consistent battery
temperatures? (I'm using Interstate flooded lead)
Am I correct that if I insulate some of my batteries I need to
insulate them all?
Having to rearrange everything would be a bit of a disappointing
setback but I fear I may have to.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is a ADC #L91-4003 6.7" 72-120VDC 13 HP Double Shaft Motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 4:54 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
Hey Mark
That depends on which one you have. If it's a drive motor it can turn
both directions if it's a pump motor than it's kind of locked into one
or the other.
Most cars use a CCWDE rotation except Honda's. Anyway not quite enough
info to go on.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What direction is an ADC 6.7 motor set up to rotate looking at the
> large output shaft end?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The big question is how much power will the vehicle need to maintain a
given speed (e.g. 60mph or 75mph). Since you are not converting a
vehicle for which CdA data is available, this might be tricky. Playing
with Uve's calculator (1400lb after conversion, 0.25Cd, 12ft^2 A, 0.95
drive efficiency, 0.0015 rolling resistance and 0.003 brake/steering
drag, and 185/75R14 tires for 839.8rev/mi), yields an estimate of 5.7HP
@ 60mph, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and [EMAIL PROTECTED] (still air, no incline).
Assuming the 6.7" you're considering is the K91 flavour, then the curves
on EV Parts' site suggests that on 75V it can only sustain the 11+HP
required for 70mph+ speeds (best case; figure on more power with a
headwind or even a slight grade) for 5-15min. At 96V it can do 12hp+
for up to 30min before overheating.
The motor is still sitting on my garage floor and is a K91-4003. These
numbers look like they are in the ballpark when comparing them to what a
slightly lighter flavor motor has done on my motorcycle. With a nice stiff
48 volt pack of STM5 100's and a total weight of 750-800 lbs including rider
I was able to cruise on the freeway at ~60 mph for 11 miles straight without
any heating issues whatsoever. This was one leg of a 32 mile trip I took
one night about half of which was freeway riding (boy I miss those
batteries). With the gearing on my motorcycle, the motor was spinning at
around 3000 rpms during the freeway portion. The K91 motor is about 10lbs
heavier and about 1.5 inches longer then the (Tropica) motor I use on my
motorcycle. So it should be able to sustain a little more power.
If you do any kind of aero work at all, you should easily be able to
outperform my motorcycle on the freeway. If you haven't been on the list
that long, you might want to hook up with Jerry Dycus for some easy to
implement aero tips. It can make a huge difference on the freeway.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it is the same one that is on www.evparts.com, then it won't spin at all
when it comes from the factory. You will have to complete the series
circuit using the four terminals on the outside of the motor and you get to
determine the rotation by which way you connect the armature to the field
windings.
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=533&product_id=1112
damon
From: "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:33:21 -0700
It is a ADC #L91-4003 6.7" 72-120VDC 13 HP Double Shaft Motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 4:54 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
Hey Mark
That depends on which one you have. If it's a drive motor it can turn
both directions if it's a pump motor than it's kind of locked into one
or the other.
Most cars use a CCWDE rotation except Honda's. Anyway not quite enough
info to go on.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What direction is an ADC 6.7 motor set up to rotate looking at the
> large output shaft end?
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--- Begin Message ---
The Regulators are internal, but you still have the small control wire.
(Except for 70's era GM "1 wire" . )
I think I mentioned this before, The regulators have changed. my 95 GM
expects the typical voltage to determine the field voltage. (I believe
it is output to dash light to 12V so when the voltage is low the
regulator tries and when the voltage comes up it turns off the field) it
expects 12V on that line.
When I put in the 2000 motor I used the alternator bolted to the engine,
it looked identical but I smoked the regulator in a week. It turns out
the regulator expects a 5V PWM signal from the ECM to allow soft start
of the chargeing (to keep belts from squealing) I bought the 95
regulator and just installed it inside the alternator.
http://www.transpo-usa.com/catalog.html
These guys are what most the repair shops use in my area, they sell to
general public, and their prices are good. They helped me with my
problem of what regulator would fit in the alternator for my year ECM.
I think we can fool the regulator into doing the work for us.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've made it rotate both directions on 12V. I'm concerned that the
brushes need adjustment for optimum performance for one direction or the
other? I saw the cold performance chart for CCW rotation on the EV
parts website and became concerned that CCW was the preferred rotation
direction. I'm building an electric motorcycle from scratch and have it
set up for CW rotation looking at the large dia output shaft. me
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:45 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
If it is the same one that is on www.evparts.com, then it won't spin at
all when it comes from the factory. You will have to complete the
series circuit using the four terminals on the outside of the motor and
you get to determine the rotation by which way you connect the armature
to the field windings.
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=533&product_id=11
12
damon
>From: "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: RE: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:33:21 -0700
>
> It is a ADC #L91-4003 6.7" 72-120VDC 13 HP Double Shaft Motor.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Jim Husted
>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 4:54 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: ADC 6.7 motor direction from factory
>
>Hey Mark
>
>That depends on which one you have. If it's a drive motor it can turn
>both directions if it's a pump motor than it's kind of locked into one
>or the other.
>Most cars use a CCWDE rotation except Honda's. Anyway not quite enough
>info to go on.
>Hope this helps
>Jim Husted
>Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What direction is an ADC 6.7 motor set up to rotate looking at the
> > large output shaft end?
>
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On 5/2/07, Jo Prichard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi everyone
I've deleted the recent post regarding Kerb Weight vs Gross Vehicle Mass so
I'm hoping you don't mind enlightening me one more time.
Kerb Weight is the weight of the car without any fluids or fuel in it.
Gross vehicle Weight is the heaviest the car can be including all
loads and passengers packed in it before the suspension and drive
train start to suffer from overloading.
I was looking at a Honda Jazz which I think might be a good possibility
because of the large (relative to the overall size of the car) boot\trunk.
Vehicle Mass (kg) 965/989
Gross Vehicle Mass (kg) 1470/1490
Gross Combination Mass (kg) 2470/2490
Boot Capacity to Window (Litres) 353/845 which means that you can pack
batteries in the trunk and still have space above to pack some cricket gear
in etc..
Thats a great looking car (just looked over the PDF from Honda) and
again I am struck by the fact that we don't have ANY Honda diesels
here! And the Jazz here is called the 'Fit', by the way.
Anyhoo, it looks like a great candidate for a conversion. Its light,
roomy, and if you didn't know this I'll let you in on it.. when you
convert and remove the gas tank, generally you cut a hole in the boot
that gives you an extra 10 cm or more of space, by welding in a
battery rack that hangs down to where the bottom of the tank used to
be.
What are your goals and budget?
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Hey Damon, all
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If it is the same one that is on www.evparts.com,
> then it won't spin at all
> when it comes from the factory. You will have to
> complete the series
> circuit using the four terminals on the outside of
> the motor and you get to
> determine the rotation by which way you connect the
> armature to the field
> windings.
What, two days at the shop and you're the motor guy
now huh? The problem with you wannabies is you give
them just enough info to kill em, that or their motors
LMAO 8^P
First off never freespin it without a load with
anything over 12 volts, that'll get ya a close to 3K
RPM's and is good enough for the test.
Second either block the motor or hold it as it will
roll in the opposite direction of rotation when she's
fired up.
With that said, what you need to do is connect "A1" to
Batt+. Jump "A2" to "F2" (or "S2") together. Connect
"F1" to batt-
To reverse switch the 2 (two) "A" terminal cables with
each other. Sorry but I can't remember which
connection is for which direction.
It's best if you can make the connection with a switch
or at least an added lead so you don't arc your studs
or batt posts.
Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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You can easily get 60V out of a standard alternator if the regulator
goes wide open (really messes up the ECM)
Most alternators are built cheap AKA not efficient. They are 3 phase.
I think some kind of boost converter could be used to both boost the
voltage and provide some control.
The other problem besides low effiency is they are not really designed
for low rpm usage, (thats why the pully is so small) I think a
generator head from harbor frient could provide more power at lower
rpm's and thus more regen load.
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Hey Mark
If you can take a pic or two and send them to me and
I'll have a look. Try and shoot the pics so it shows
the brushes and the pole shoe bolts (along the
housing). Remove the cover so I can see where the
brushes are located in relation to those bolts.
Chances are you'll need to set the plate but they
should have drilled the holes already.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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Steve (and All),
Are you in Colorado Springs trying to drive up to Divide? No wait, that was
Steve Richardson with a Mitsubishi pickup truck and 40 Yeller Tops like
eight years ago (I bought 16 of those batteries when he parted the beast
out)! Is this history repeating itself? Anyway, here's a suggestion based
on Peter's response. Leave the buggy partially discharged after arriving at
home, then regen down on the way to "the big city" and top-off while there
in order to get back home. Top off the batteries Friday night and discharge
again Sunday for the regen back down on Monday, blah, blah, blah. I would
not attempt a 3000 foot decent without regen or a poor man's regenerative
braking system like my alternator on the tail shaft.
Hope this helps,
Suck Amps...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:47:36 -0700 (MST)
>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>If I understand this correctly, you go Down hill when the pack is full and
>climb up hill when it's low?
>
>If that's the case, then Regen is just about useless. Your pack will be
>full when going downhill, so you won't be able to use regen, except maybe
>a tiny bit.
>
>Regen doesn't do anything for you going up hill.
>
>So if this is the case, then I wouldn't waste any money on regen unless
>you get it in a motor/controller that you are buying for some other reason
>anyway. I.e. get it if it's free, but don't spend money buying something
>you can't use.
>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:43:35 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 3000+ foot climb in 17 miles to commute (back from) "the big city".
<snip>
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John (and All),
I wouldn't try and change the front suspension, unless you are considering
drop spindles (don't heat up the coils with a torch to drop the front!). I
have four batteries located in the old radiator's location (in an angle
iron frame bolted to the truck frame), and two batteries above the motor,
also bolted to the truck frame (I would have eight under the hood, but I
kept the A/C!). I would consider four batteries under the hood as a minimum
of battery weight up in front (removal of 425 pounds of 4.3L V6 infernal
combustion minus a 150 pound 9 incher, or 275 pounds divided by 70 pound
floodies equals four...). You can also run smaller tires on the front,
assuming this is two wheel drive like mine, which will shift more weight
forward for braking. In addition to shorter tires on the front, I put
taller tires on the back to help compensate for an inaccurate POS GM
speedo. And now that my truck is always pointed down hill, it coasts so
much better! As far as all the batteries in the bed for even temperatures,
this is VERY IMPORTANT, which is why you should have poly boxes with
insulation (and/or battery heaters), one on each side of the drive shaft
with four each floodies (was this an extended cab short bed?), one behind
the rear-end with eight floodies, and eight floodies under the hood. So
you're on the least coast, and have talked to Bob Batson of EV's of America
about S10 conversions? Having all the batteries in the bed is easier, but
is it safer (and can you peel the tires off the wheels in a corner!)?
Hope this helps,
Suck Amps...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:11:23 -0400
>
<snip>
>
>Based on the response from mid april, it would seem that I can fix my
>rear ride height with additional springs, but I now share Dave H's
>issue about the front end. I don't know much about autos but it
>doesn't seem that anything but additional weight in the front can fix
>that end. Are there adjustments that can be made to the suspension of
>truck to shift weight forward?
>
>I temporarily put 4 of my batteries up in the engine compartment and
>it "looks" much better. The from ride height is close to where it was
>pre conversion, but the rear is still low. Currently the weight of
>the 4 batteries is being distributed to the old engine mounts that
>are about even with the front wheels. If I put permanently put
>batteries up from thel will be forward of the front wheels so 4 may
>be the right number.
>
>I wanted to keep all the batteries in the bed because it seemed
>easier, but also so they would all be in one location to have 1
>insulated battery box for temperature consistency. (I am in Western MA)
>
>Was I being overly concerned about maintaining consistent battery
>temperatures? (I'm using Interstate flooded lead)
>
>Am I correct that if I insulate some of my batteries I need to
>insulate them all?
<snip>
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I am preparing to convert a 1983 VW GTI and have a
ADC 203-06-4001 motor waiting in the wings. The tag
on the motor says 72V/96V but can I safely use this
motor up to 144V? I have seen this motor listed on a
number of EV supplier sites with voltage range listing
from 96V-144V. Whats up with all of this?
Thanks
Joel
Minneapolis
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Ok, after a trip to the library and some checked out books, this is what
I've come up with.
1. If you must build a contactor controller, build a drum or cam
controller. They are sturdier than the wiper kind and more reliable.
Disconnect quicker etc. I got a couple good pictures out of books and
diagrams. Unfortunatly, I have to leave a lot to imagination because
nothing is as good as seeing it first hand, or color pictures.
2. The best way to control the speed of a series motor is to Vary the
voltage. This can really only be done in the old days by using a
generator and varying the voltage produced. Needless to say I don't
think that will work :) Todays controllers accomplish the equivalent by
sending the motor pulses of current.
3. The best way, even outlined in the books, for controlling the speed
is to vary the field current. This is how they do it in a shunt motor
but I want to use a series motor. Compound motors work good like this
but I doubt I will get much choice at the forklift graveyard.
So, This information raises some questions...
How hard would it be to take a series motor, and separate the armature
and field? Like a shunt motor.
What would varying the speed using the field do to the torque
characteristics?
There seems to be no way to get around breaking the pack up into series
and parallel strings to get different voltage steps.
Here is my proposal.
A homemade cam controller. Using maybe 6 steps. The first step will be
24v straight to the series motor. Then the next step will break the
series motor into a shunt motor with a resistor to limit field current.
This will increase rpm. (Not sure how that will affect torque) Then the
next step will put the motor back in series and put the batteries in a
48v configuration. Next will be another shunt motor step with resistor.
Then 96v series and 96v shunt with resistor.
There are a lot of drawbacks to this I can see right away. I think this
would take a ton of wiring. Other than a straight rehoestat in series
with the series motor, or switching to a shunt motor, I don't know what
to do.
Sorry it's a long post.
Thanks,
Paul
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So then, I'm stuck with the drag? Well, I am considering replacing the
entire assembly to get better bearings. Maybe I can find something
better with respect to calipers as well as bearings.
Sigh.
Jude
David Dymaxion wrote:
Do not add springs to brakes like that! The retraction will take one or several
pumps of the brake pedal to overcome before the brakes start working. Also, it
could make the brake reservoir overflow as the pistons retract, and then have
low fluid as the pedal is pumped.
Track racers sometimes have this problem. Usually it means they have slightly loose
wheels bearings, suspension, or brake parts. That little slack lets the piston get pushed
in a bit due to forces encountered on the track, and the brake pedal goes way low or even
to the floor. This is popularly called "pad knockback." Some racers will give
the brakes a quick pump before the turn to make sure the pads are seated against the disk
before braking for real.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:02:57 PM
Subject: Re: Brake drag
... I'm considering a rebuild of the brakes, ..., and even modifications to add
springs to the two rails that the calipers slide on. ...
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