EV Digest 6724
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) hall effect sensor
by "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Battery model/brand comparison chart
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Comercial Contactor Controller
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery model/brand comparison chart
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Comercial Contactor Controller
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: GEM won't turn off
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery model/brand comparison chart
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Pile of EV loot
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Brake drag
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Pile of EV loot
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Pile of EV loot
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Military Auction in MA, S-10 EV
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: cartoon
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Potential Candidates
by "Jo Prichard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery model/brand comparison chart
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Puka Minibike
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Suspension and weight distribution
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Pile of EV loot
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
I got my trans from a local junk yard. I only got the converter eliminator
from TCI. B&M did make a cable operated modulator eliminator at one time,
although I don't see it on their site. Considering that most of the motors
I'm looking at produce best power well below 3000 RPM, I may be OK just
porting power brake vacuum to the modulator to keep the RPM down during
acceleration, and then venting it to atmospheric to hold 2nd gear longer at
low throttle.
I'm planning on tapping the front pump while I've got the trans apart for a
rebuild. I'll probably try it without an external pump to see what happens,
and then add the pump. I'm guessing that I can use a small pump just to
prime the front pump and valve body passages, and then the high pressure
will be able to come up fast enough when the input shaft starts to turn. If
that doesn't do the job, I may look into using one pump for both power
steering and trans priming. We'll see how it goes.
I'm planning on documenting the project at www.ej-7.com, although I haven't
started the site either. So far I've been busy working on the chassis and
cleaning up the trans. I haven't got a lot of spare time, so this is going
to take a while.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
Hello Marty,
It looks like you got your transmission from TCI before I did. Lets us
know how it goes, so we can learn from your methods.
I am also using a TH-350 turbo, with a torque converter eliminator shaft,
but with a manual value body, where I will have to shift it in manual
mode. This can eliminate the vacuum modulator.
Also if you tap the front pump boss in the pressure side and return side,
you can have a hydraulic pump with a limit switch pump up the oil pressure
before you take off. I had a local transmission shop show me how to do
this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
Correction:
As Bullwinkle used to say, "Guess I don't know my own strength".
Earlier I guessed the Turbo Hydro to be about 75 or 80 pounds without the
converter from what it felt like carrying it. I weighed it. The trans,
without converter, weighs in at 122 lbs. The converter weighs 35. The
TCI
converter eliminator hub weighs 5 lbs. Don't want to leave bad info
floating around.
I've been thinking about Roger's suggestion that you really need an
upshift
for a passing gear, not a downshift. That sounds like an interesting use
for an overdrive automatic, normally drive in 3rd, go to overdrive to
pass.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
> The transmission will be an interesting experiment. I haven't weighed
> it,
> but from carrying it, I'd guess it's 75 or 80 lbs without the
> converter.
> It's pretty beefy. It may be overkill, but maybe not if I dump 1500
> amps
> through a contactor into a 9 inch motor. It will get me a reverse and
> about 2.5 times torque multiplication to get rolling. Another issue
> that
> I will have to address is the vacuum modulator. The Turbo 350 normally
> uses manifold vacuum to influence shift hardness and, I believe, shift
> points. I may have to figure out a way to use modulated power brake
> vacuum to simulate manifold vacuum. I think the tricky thing will be
> seperating shift firmness from shift point. Normally an ICE trans
> raises
> both at full throttle. With an electric, I believe we want to keep
> shift
> points high all the time, but still vary shift firmness.
>
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
I've been searching/looking at many batteries by brand
and model. I have composed a chart below. What would
you suggest a person buy? Being quite an investment, I
certainly would like some insight from you seasoned
EV'rs:
Battery per Brand Comparison:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 20hr/Rate Volts Weight
TROJAN:
T-145 145 260 6vdc 72lbs
T-105 115 225 6vdc 62lbs
US Battery:
US-145 154 6vdc 70lbs
US-125 140 6vdc 67lbs
US-2200 122 6vdc 63lbs
Interstate:
U2400 154 251 6vdc 70lbs
U2300 140 242 6vdc 67lbs
U2200 122 232 6vdc 63lbs
U2000 114 216 6vdc 59lbs
NAPA:
8144 107 186 6vdc 59lbs
8146 135 226 6vdc 65lbs
EXIDE:
GC2-H 145 xxx 6vdc xxlbs
GC-5 135 xxx 6vdc xxlbs
E-3600 110 xxx 6vdc xxlbs
SamsClub:
GC2 PwrFast 219 6vdc xxlbs
AdVantage+:
A1055 105 220 6vdc xxlbs
A1255 125 235 6vdc xxlbs
I have located a vendor, of new battery BLEM's in many
brands. Is it safe to say these are electrically
safe/viable, and just have cosmetic issues?
I hope all of the above isn't a repeat, I couldn't
find a comparison chart in the archives. If it has
been covered, please forgive me for reposting the
question.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to add this late but here is some stuff I just found. Not really
sure what to make up it but here goes...
Searched "drum controller" on ebay and found a Furnas controller. Went
to there website.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hubbell-icd.com/icd/ac
cessories/images/4258.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hubbell-icd.com/prIndex.a
sp&h=312&w=200&sz=12&hl=en&start=13&um=1&tbnid=SFj0CF0Td6CV4M:&tbnh=117&
tbnw=75&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddrum%2Bcontroller%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%
3Den%26rls%3DITVA,ITVA:2006-35,ITVA:en%26sa%3DN
Says this drum controller will work on DC motors, with speed control!!
The ratings are to low but it's a start. Going to the online catalog
pdf's...
http://www.hubbell-icd.com/icd/drum/files/Catalog%204258%20Drum%20Contro
llers.pdf
looking at the 5th page where they show how to connect the controller to
different motors I find a DC series. Only the field and armature are
connected in parallel to the controller. I wish I could see the insides
of this controller.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 1, 2007, at 8:54 PM, Marty Hewes wrote:
Personally, the idea of having to drop the front and raise the rear
scares the heck out of me. If the front bumper is higher than a
stock truck, I'd worry.
<snip>
I wouldn't want to have less weight on the front axle than it had
with the ICE in there. Also, how much weight have you got on the
rear axle and what is the rear axle GVWR rating? You may be
pushing the limits of the wheel bearings and rear brakes as well as
the tires.
Unfortunately, all I know is that I should be within the GVWR based
on my calculations (estimates) of weight removed and weight added. I
was not able to weigh my 3 liter V6 before someone came and took it
away, and could not find a listing of its weight on the web. I
guessed 400 lbs based on the range found at this site http://
www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html so I could be way off.
Following are my truck weight ratings.
GVWR 4700 lbs
GAWR FR 2200 lbs
GAWR RR 2600 lbs
My 24 batteries weigh 1600 lbs
I may have to figure out a way to get axle weights without leaving my
garage to get a better idea what's going on.
John
----- Original Message ----- From: "John O'Connor"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
Well I think I have them situated to get the most weight forward
of the rear axle. Have them aligned so that the long end of sides
of the batteries are perpendicular to the axle. One row of 7,
three rows of 5 and the final 2 are parallel to the axle. One row
of 5 is directly above the axle the the other 2 are behind the
axles.
I was counting on more of the weight in the bed being transferred
to the front axle than appears to be happening. I stopped in at a
local Firestone and they said I could add additional leaf springs
and heavy duty shocks to the rear end and drop springs to the front.
Does dropping the front and raising the rear back to ICE levels
result in weight transfer from the rear to the front?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When it comes go golf car batteries, the care you take of them matters more
than the brand. That said, I would stick with the brands which have proven
useful to EV hobbyists over the years, US Battery and Trojan. Interstate
Workaholic is the same as US Battery.
I have no experience with "blem" batteries and I'm a bit skeptical. Since
appearance seldom matters with batteries it's hard for me to understand why
anyone would sell them cheaper if all that was wrong was a scuff or a
scratch, but maybe I'm missing something.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:28 AM 5/1/2007, Lee Hart wrote:
Contactor controllers, and flooded batteries, and DC motors etc. are
the training wheels that will teach you how to build EVs *NOW*! Not
someday when you're rich, or when/if the car companies or government
decides it for you.
And those people who haven't used and researched Contactor
Controllers in the past, STILL don't have any good way of finding out
what has been done with them.
WHERE can we find out about those 50 (or 100) year old designs?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has this had the control board replaced? GEM has recalled most of the cars
because the control board gets erratic failures if it gets wet. They are
replacing them with a sealed board.
If it hasn't been replaced, call Troy Haggen in Fargo at 1-888-871-4367.
You'll need to have the VIN.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dube [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:54 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: GEM won't turn off
I'm not a GEM guru, but this sounds like the main contactor is welded
shut. Welded contactor can often be caused by trouble with the
pre-charge circuit or a burned out pre-charge resistor. At least this
is what I would suspect if it were a typical EV.
Bill Dube'
At 04:53 PM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
>'02 GEM will NOT turn off, unless I turn off the first battery pack
>(2 battery packs of 6).
>If the battery switch is on, the GEM will run without a key.
>Fuse?
>Suggestions?
>
>Thanks.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft
>Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Selecting a battery, if you actually want to take into account all the
various factors that affect purchase, is a bit complex.
First you have to decide on physical constraints. Upper weight limit
for the whole pack considering final desired voltage, as well as form
factor limits in terms of space taken up by the pack. Once you have
those numbers set, you can eliminate some of the contenders before you
even look at price or amp hours.
One more factor to consider before $$ work is Peukert's exponent. The
closer to 1 the better, this number tells you how much power you can
pull from a battery before the voltage sags.. it relates to internal
resistance, which is also a quantity where the lower, the better. Here
is a good reference: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/peukert2.html So,
cull some from your list there.
The economic factors are less obvious than you might think. If you are
only looking at lead, it is still a bit complicated, as not all lead
batteries are created equally.
Wh per kg
Wh per Liter
These two you can use if you want things to be complex.. you'll have
to do some weighted averaging and such to get it to be meaningful. I
would leave them out as you have already figured out which batteries
will fit and discarded the rest. If you are comparing values for other
chemistries, or differing types of lead (AGM vs floodies) you will
want to include them, or at least Wh per kg.
Wh per $1 - The important number
The higher the better here, and it will give you a good first glance.
Now you also have to know how many cycles these batteries are rated
for at 80% DOD if you want long term cost. So you can figure that out
(by reading PDFs or asking) and replace Wh/$1 with Wh*(cycles divided
by 100)/$1 with, again, the biggest numbers being the best. Keep in
mind, this is an economic calculation. it doesn't have any other use.
Also, I haven't tweaked the math.. you may want to alter it a bit.
Again .. you are trying to get a rough composite.
So, at the end of the day you'll have a roughly decent empirical way
of figuring out the battery you need.
What I do is scan over a spreadsheet and mentally compare numbers..
but then I'm a math masochist.
The short answer is buy Trojans if you are being cost conscious :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Today one of my coworker said to me "You won't believe what I have in
the back of my truck!", we headed out to the parking lot and I found
myself staring slack yawed at a whole pile of prime EV parts.
Apparently a friend of his dumped it on him, his friend was moving
shop and wanted him to sell it.
After the drooling had diminished I made him an offer that I
considered only mildly insulting but still way below the value of the
parts. I'm now the owner of the following:
Two nine inch Advanced DC motors and one adapter plate. One of the
motors seems to have been chromed at some point and is very shiny.
They look almost new and supposedly have very few miles on them, the
brushes are in good shape and I cant see any wear on the commutator.
One of the motors has motor mounts welded to the housing, they're
supposed to fit some truck, I forget which.
Mounted to the chrome motor was a Datsun automatic transmission that
has been modified for EV operation. The tranny has connections for an
external hydraulic pump and the shift points have been changed to
better match the electric motor. It was explained to me that it
operates opposite to a regular automatic, it will normally run the
motor at high RPM and shift up when more torque is needed.
I'm still undecided whether to use it in the Fiat or not. It looks
like the Datsun tranny is the same size and shape as the Fiat one so I
should be able to use the adapter plate either way.
The advantage of an automatic is that anyone will be able to get in
the car, press the pedal and go. I don't have to explain how to handle
clutchless shifting or anything, this is especially good for my wife
who has never driven a stick. The Datsun tranny is also a lot more
robust than the fiat tranny.
The disadvantage is the efficiency hit caused by the hydraulic pump
(which, by the way, was included).
I also got a refurbished Curtis 1231 controller that has once belonged
to Ed Begley jr. The box had never been opened before.
Last but not least, I got a vacuum pump for the brakes.
My question to the list is regarding the tranny. It was modified by a
guy who used to be a transmission mechanic and who was involved in
many EV conversions so I have no doubt that it works. I'm more
concerned with the efficiency hit of the hydraulic pump, does anyone
have any idea how much power is needed to sustain the pressure?
Any other thoughts and inputs on the topic would be nice.
I'll be selling one of the motors and possibly the tranny, pictures
can be found on my website.
-Peter
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not necessarily. Lee Hart found a brake that comes with retraction springs
(that's OK, just don't add them to brakes without them). Brakes with pistons on
both sides don't have to slide the whole caliper to reliever pressure, so
should do a bit better. Some of the school teams have machined the caliper and
piston to be perfectly round, so the piston retracts better when the o-ring
pulls it back a bit. I have heard of "low friction" brake pads (Chevrolet said
they used them on some of their 80's cars) that are supposed to help gas
mileage, but have never seen them. I would guess "long life" brake pads would
tend to have less friction, but at the expense of not stopping as well.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 8:17:00 PM
Subject: Re: Brake drag
So then, I'm stuck with the drag? Well, I am considering replacing the
entire assembly to get better bearings. Maybe I can find something
better with respect to calipers as well as bearings.
Sigh.
Jude
David Dymaxion wrote:
> Do not add springs to brakes like that! The retraction will take one or
> several pumps of the brake pedal to overcome before the brakes start working.
> Also, it could make the brake reservoir overflow as the pistons retract, and
> then have low fluid as the pedal is pumped.
>
> Track racers sometimes have this problem. Usually it means they have slightly
> loose wheels bearings, suspension, or brake parts. That little slack lets the
> piston get pushed in a bit due to forces encountered on the track, and the
> brake pedal goes way low or even to the floor. This is popularly called "pad
> knockback." Some racers will give the brakes a quick pump before the turn to
> make sure the pads are seated against the disk before braking for real.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:02:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Brake drag
>
> ... I'm considering a rebuild of the brakes, ..., and even modifications to
> add springs to the two rails that the calipers slide on. ...
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations on your score! If your auxiliary pump is wired correctly
with a pressure switch to shut it off once front pump pressure takes over I
would not be concerned with a loss of efficiency. I am assuming they
eliminated the torque converter and that is the reason for the pump. Please
correct me if I am wrong. I would be very curious to know the person's name
that did the modifications. It just may be someone I know. I do know a few
of the old timers around the country :-)
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:03 PM
Subject: Pile of EV loot
Today one of my coworker said to me "You won't believe what I have in
the back of my truck!", we headed out to the parking lot and I found
myself staring slack yawed at a whole pile of prime EV parts.
Apparently a friend of his dumped it on him, his friend was moving
shop and wanted him to sell it.
After the drooling had diminished I made him an offer that I
considered only mildly insulting but still way below the value of the
parts. I'm now the owner of the following:
Two nine inch Advanced DC motors and one adapter plate. One of the
motors seems to have been chromed at some point and is very shiny.
They look almost new and supposedly have very few miles on them, the
brushes are in good shape and I cant see any wear on the commutator.
One of the motors has motor mounts welded to the housing, they're
supposed to fit some truck, I forget which.
Mounted to the chrome motor was a Datsun automatic transmission that
has been modified for EV operation. The tranny has connections for an
external hydraulic pump and the shift points have been changed to
better match the electric motor. It was explained to me that it
operates opposite to a regular automatic, it will normally run the
motor at high RPM and shift up when more torque is needed.
I'm still undecided whether to use it in the Fiat or not. It looks
like the Datsun tranny is the same size and shape as the Fiat one so I
should be able to use the adapter plate either way.
The advantage of an automatic is that anyone will be able to get in
the car, press the pedal and go. I don't have to explain how to handle
clutchless shifting or anything, this is especially good for my wife
who has never driven a stick. The Datsun tranny is also a lot more
robust than the fiat tranny.
The disadvantage is the efficiency hit caused by the hydraulic pump
(which, by the way, was included).
I also got a refurbished Curtis 1231 controller that has once belonged
to Ed Begley jr. The box had never been opened before.
Last but not least, I got a vacuum pump for the brakes.
My question to the list is regarding the tranny. It was modified by a
guy who used to be a transmission mechanic and who was involved in
many EV conversions so I have no doubt that it works. I'm more
concerned with the efficiency hit of the hydraulic pump, does anyone
have any idea how much power is needed to sustain the pressure?
Any other thoughts and inputs on the topic would be nice.
I'll be selling one of the motors and possibly the tranny, pictures
can be found on my website.
-Peter
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release Date: 4/19/2007
5:32 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, there's no torque converter, so you're saying the pump can be
shut down when the motor is spinning fast enough? Do you know what the
pressure need to be?
My coworker called him Rich, don't know his last name.
On 5/1/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Congratulations on your score! If your auxiliary pump is wired correctly
with a pressure switch to shut it off once front pump pressure takes over I
would not be concerned with a loss of efficiency. I am assuming they
eliminated the torque converter and that is the reason for the pump. Please
correct me if I am wrong. I would be very curious to know the person's name
that did the modifications. It just may be someone I know. I do know a few
of the old timers around the country :-)
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:03 PM
Subject: Pile of EV loot
> Today one of my coworker said to me "You won't believe what I have in
> the back of my truck!", we headed out to the parking lot and I found
> myself staring slack yawed at a whole pile of prime EV parts.
>
> Apparently a friend of his dumped it on him, his friend was moving
> shop and wanted him to sell it.
>
> After the drooling had diminished I made him an offer that I
> considered only mildly insulting but still way below the value of the
> parts. I'm now the owner of the following:
>
> Two nine inch Advanced DC motors and one adapter plate. One of the
> motors seems to have been chromed at some point and is very shiny.
> They look almost new and supposedly have very few miles on them, the
> brushes are in good shape and I cant see any wear on the commutator.
> One of the motors has motor mounts welded to the housing, they're
> supposed to fit some truck, I forget which.
>
> Mounted to the chrome motor was a Datsun automatic transmission that
> has been modified for EV operation. The tranny has connections for an
> external hydraulic pump and the shift points have been changed to
> better match the electric motor. It was explained to me that it
> operates opposite to a regular automatic, it will normally run the
> motor at high RPM and shift up when more torque is needed.
>
> I'm still undecided whether to use it in the Fiat or not. It looks
> like the Datsun tranny is the same size and shape as the Fiat one so I
> should be able to use the adapter plate either way.
>
> The advantage of an automatic is that anyone will be able to get in
> the car, press the pedal and go. I don't have to explain how to handle
> clutchless shifting or anything, this is especially good for my wife
> who has never driven a stick. The Datsun tranny is also a lot more
> robust than the fiat tranny.
>
> The disadvantage is the efficiency hit caused by the hydraulic pump
> (which, by the way, was included).
>
> I also got a refurbished Curtis 1231 controller that has once belonged
> to Ed Begley jr. The box had never been opened before.
>
> Last but not least, I got a vacuum pump for the brakes.
>
>
>
> My question to the list is regarding the tranny. It was modified by a
> guy who used to be a transmission mechanic and who was involved in
> many EV conversions so I have no doubt that it works. I'm more
> concerned with the efficiency hit of the hydraulic pump, does anyone
> have any idea how much power is needed to sustain the pressure?
>
> Any other thoughts and inputs on the topic would be nice.
>
>
> I'll be selling one of the motors and possibly the tranny, pictures
> can be found on my website.
>
> -Peter
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--
www.electric-lemon.com
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Figures... I spent a couple of years working for a contractor at
Hanscom. Now that I'm in AZ they start selling EVs :-)
Rob
On Apr 28, 2007, at 11:29 PM, Randy Burleson wrote:
Wish I were closer... for the risk of a lowball bid and pickup, this
might be a runner, a glider, or a solid source of parts! Looks
clean and
in good shape, minus the batteries...
Event ID: SB2860
Auction URL:
http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=1194039
Closing Date: 05/17/2007 05:00PM
1997 CHEVROLET S-10 4 X 2 ELECTRIC P/ U TRUCK, MDL- E10603,
85KW, GM POWER ELECTRONICS SYSTEM 110, 3 PHASE, LIQUID COOLED AC
ELECTRIC MOTOR
NO BATTERIES, BATTERY CASES IN BED OF TRUCK
RUNNING CONDITION UNKNOWN, TIRE SIZE: P205/ 75R15, BUYER LOADS.
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Since the contact pole is dangling in mid air, they're clearly
running Telsa coils at regular intervals along the roads :-)
Rob
On May 1, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Marty Hewes wrote:
I like it. How about a commuter lane on the expressway, only to be
used by electrics and hybrids, with overhead power?
Marty
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: cartoon
Just thought you might chuckle at this.
http://comics.com/wash/bonanas/archive/bonanas-20070428.html
Thanks for my laugh of the day. It reminds me of one I saw with
the couple driving their nice new car up the entrance ramp to a
freeway at rush hour. The freeway is jammed solid with cars... and
they are all carnival bumper cars. The drivers are slam-banging
their way along, shoving each other aside, waving insults, etc.
But, I have to wonder... what would it be like to build
electrified roads like this, with overhead wires and electric cars
without batteries? It might work!
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into
momentum. -- Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Amy Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Birth Doula
Childbirth Educator
602-277-1572
602-405-3744
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire" -
Yeats
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Hi Tim
What are your goals and budget?
I guess my total budget is $17k which doesn't leave me with much room for
the donor vehicle! Certainly it's not worth buying new because most of the
value will be lost in the first year and a bit so it will be better to buy
the same shape but preowned. I have a friend that owns a large repair \
panel beater shop that I'm hoping to convince to build for me once the plan
has been formalised.
If the conversion costs me 10k then I'm going to end up with a 2nd Hand Chev
Spark (Matiz?) but I'd much rather it be a Jazz or Merc A Class... (I'm not
sure all the batteries will fit in the Spark?)
I'm looking at a Jazz size, Range of 30 miles, top speed of 45mph but able
to handle up a hill or two (not sure of the gradient).
I'm sure someone locally (Cape Town, South Africa) must have built an EV
before but I've not heard of it. I think there's an opportunity to swing
some sponsorship either from a Battery Outlet or some other Green aware
company which might help fund it over time and put their Brand all over the
vehicle. Out here in the sticks in Africa it would be a novelty for sure so
I think there's a possibility I'd pull that off.
Has anyone else out there had success at getting sponsorship for their EV?
I also just noticed that my Electricity costs $0.02 KWH, is that cheaper
than the US\UK Europe?
Thanks in advance
Jo
Cape Town
South Africa
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I'm guessing that this is your first pack?
If so, and assuming they provide enough range for your needs, buy the
cheapest ones. Most folks murder their first set of batteries during the
learning process and there is no sense in paying a lot for batteries that
will die an untimely death.
That being said, I'd probably go with the T-105s or US-2200s, unless there
was a significant cost savings on one of the other types. Both of these
batteries have good reputations in EVs and are generally considered to
provide the best bang for the buck.
> I've been searching/looking at many batteries by brand
> and model. I have composed a chart below. What would
> you suggest a person buy? Being quite an investment, I
> certainly would like some insight from you seasoned
> EV'rs:
>
> Battery per Brand Comparison:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20hr/Rate Volts Weight
>
> TROJAN:
>
> T-145 145 260 6vdc 72lbs
> T-105 115 225 6vdc 62lbs
>
> US Battery:
>
> US-145 154 6vdc 70lbs
> US-125 140 6vdc 67lbs
> US-2200 122 6vdc 63lbs
>
> Interstate:
>
> U2400 154 251 6vdc 70lbs
> U2300 140 242 6vdc 67lbs
> U2200 122 232 6vdc 63lbs
> U2000 114 216 6vdc 59lbs
>
> NAPA:
>
> 8144 107 186 6vdc 59lbs
> 8146 135 226 6vdc 65lbs
>
> EXIDE:
>
> GC2-H 145 xxx 6vdc xxlbs
> GC-5 135 xxx 6vdc xxlbs
> E-3600 110 xxx 6vdc xxlbs
>
> SamsClub:
>
> GC2 PwrFast 219 6vdc xxlbs
>
> AdVantage+:
>
> A1055 105 220 6vdc xxlbs
> A1255 125 235 6vdc xxlbs
>
> I have located a vendor, of new battery BLEM's in many
> brands. Is it safe to say these are electrically
> safe/viable, and just have cosmetic issues?
>
> I hope all of the above isn't a repeat, I couldn't
> find a comparison chart in the archives. If it has
> been covered, please forgive me for reposting the
> question.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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Anyone own a Puka minibike.
Opinions ?
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C78CAB.F185A05F"
Subject: Puka Minibike
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 06:20:52 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: Puka Minibike
Thread-Index: AceMq/Fpgu39E2W9SfmjTr0AwHm4Jg==
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 09:02:48 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Suspension and weight distribution
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:52:48 -0700
>
>John (and All),
>I wouldn't try and change the front suspension, unless you are considering
>drop spindles (don't heat up the coils with a torch to drop the front!). I
>have four batteries located in the old radiator's location (in an angle
>iron frame bolted to the truck frame), and two batteries above the motor,
>also bolted to the truck frame (I would have eight under the hood, but I
>kept the A/C!). I would consider four batteries under the hood as a minimum
>of battery weight up in front (removal of 425 pounds of 4.3L V6 infernal
>combustion minus a 150 pound 9 incher, or 275 pounds divided by 70 pound
>floodies equals four...). You can also run smaller tires on the front,
>assuming this is two wheel drive like mine, which will shift more weight
>forward for braking.
I would think twice before changing to smaller diameter wheels on the front.
The fore and aft weight shift would be very small .
And, it would make the front tires break away more easily during braking. A
smaller diameter wheel means that, for a given brake pedal pressure ( and, a
given braking torque on the wheel) the braking force of the tire on the
pavement will be higher.
This would make any brake imbalance ( due to too little weight on the front
axle) even worse. Taller tires on the back would similarly worsen the brake
imbalance.
The best thing would be to make the weight distribution as close as you can
to stock. Or, at the least, don't reduce the weight on the front wheels.
Phil
In addition to shorter tires on the front, I put
>taller tires on the back to help compensate for an inaccurate POS GM
>speedo. And now that my truck is always pointed down hill, it coasts so
>much better! As far as all the batteries in the bed for even temperatures,
>this is VERY IMPORTANT, which is why you should have poly boxes with
>insulation (and/or battery heaters), one on each side of the drive shaft
>with four each floodies (was this an extended cab short bed?), one behind
>the rear-end with eight floodies, and eight floodies under the hood. So
>you're on the least coast, and have talked to Bob Batson of EV's of America
>about S10 conversions? Having all the batteries in the bed is easier, but
>is it safer (and can you peel the tires off the wheels in a corner!)?
>Hope this helps,
>Suck Amps...
>50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
>Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
>Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
_________________________________________________________________
MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter to win today.
http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pile of EV loot
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:11:38 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Peter,
The external hydraulic pump is normally use for starting out and moving at 1
rpm or a very low rpm. Once your motor gets up to 500 rpm, then the
transmission internal pump takes over and the external pump goes off line.
Even if you stop for a red light, the pressure may be enough for you to take
off at a very low rpm. A limit switch should be use with this pump, where
it will auto come on if you are stop for too long.
If your vehicle was a manual shift with a clutch peddle, you can use that
peddle with attach manual hydraulic piston that can pump up the pressure
before starting out. I think one of the guys on this list use this method.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Pile of EV loot
> Today one of my coworker said to me "You won't believe what I have in
> the back of my truck!", we headed out to the parking lot and I found
> myself staring slack yawed at a whole pile of prime EV parts.
>
> Apparently a friend of his dumped it on him, his friend was moving
> shop and wanted him to sell it.
>
> After the drooling had diminished I made him an offer that I
> considered only mildly insulting but still way below the value of the
> parts. I'm now the owner of the following:
>
> Two nine inch Advanced DC motors and one adapter plate. One of the
> motors seems to have been chromed at some point and is very shiny.
> They look almost new and supposedly have very few miles on them, the
> brushes are in good shape and I cant see any wear on the commutator.
> One of the motors has motor mounts welded to the housing, they're
> supposed to fit some truck, I forget which.
>
> Mounted to the chrome motor was a Datsun automatic transmission that
> has been modified for EV operation. The tranny has connections for an
> external hydraulic pump and the shift points have been changed to
> better match the electric motor. It was explained to me that it
> operates opposite to a regular automatic, it will normally run the
> motor at high RPM and shift up when more torque is needed.
>
> I'm still undecided whether to use it in the Fiat or not. It looks
> like the Datsun tranny is the same size and shape as the Fiat one so I
> should be able to use the adapter plate either way.
>
> The advantage of an automatic is that anyone will be able to get in
> the car, press the pedal and go. I don't have to explain how to handle
> clutchless shifting or anything, this is especially good for my wife
> who has never driven a stick. The Datsun tranny is also a lot more
> robust than the fiat tranny.
>
> The disadvantage is the efficiency hit caused by the hydraulic pump
> (which, by the way, was included).
>
> I also got a refurbished Curtis 1231 controller that has once belonged
> to Ed Begley jr. The box had never been opened before.
>
> Last but not least, I got a vacuum pump for the brakes.
>
>
>
> My question to the list is regarding the tranny. It was modified by a
> guy who used to be a transmission mechanic and who was involved in
> many EV conversions so I have no doubt that it works. I'm more
> concerned with the efficiency hit of the hydraulic pump, does anyone
> have any idea how much power is needed to sustain the pressure?
>
> Any other thoughts and inputs on the topic would be nice.
>
>
> I'll be selling one of the motors and possibly the tranny, pictures
> can be found on my website.
>
> -Peter
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
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