EV Digest 6729
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) White Zombie motor?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Firefly batteries
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: White Zombie motor?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Range still doesn't match predictions based on battery voltage
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: White Zombie motor?
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re:
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: White Zombie motor?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re:
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Automatic or Manual?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re:
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) FS: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Hawker Powersafe 12V105F UPS Batteries on Ebay
by "Martin Winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Cog Calcs (was RE: ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: FW: Budget AGMs (Universal Power Group)
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: White Zombie motor?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Budget AGMs (Universal Power Group)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: FW: Budget AGMs (Universal Power Group)
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
by "Barry Oppenheim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: FW: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Direct drive - thoughts?
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
34) Re: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Wednesday evening the Lawless Industries AGNS (All Go No Show)
motorcycle set a new NEDRA 72 volt record for the 1/8th mile of 8.86
seconds @ 77.11 MPH on good old fashion, 3 year old Hawker AGM's. This
time was backed up with an 8.83 minutes later.
Brand new NEDRA member Denis Stanislaw was on board for the ride
complete with Carhart overalls and work boots
Weather was not conducive to record setting with a stiff head wind and
54 degree temp but the little bike didn't seem to mind on it's way to a
14.1 @ 87 mph 1/4 mile. Comparing the AGM to LI pack is like comparing
peas and carrots. Where the V28's were just starting to run at the
1/8th mile, the Hawkers are running out of steam. But man that lead
acid rush on the line is still impressive. Many high school age racers
were there for grudge night and by our third run almost all got off
their bikes and out of their cars to watch. They didn't even seem to
notice the nitrous Kawasaki ZX-11 that ran 7's at 170's the run before
us. Thank you Charles for the tuning tips on the Perm motors!
Looking for 100 mph at 96 volts.....
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most people do manuals. Automatics are too
inefficient.
Your '83 won't have as much capacity for batteries as
newer models, but if you're looking for something for
in-town, low speeds, it should be fine.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Is it generally easier to convert a car with an
> automatic or manual
> transmission (or doesn't it matter)? I have an '83
> Honda Civic Wagon with a
> manual transmission that I'm considering as a
> conversion candidate.
>
> Thx,
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
> http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
> "The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff
> in the sixties,
> but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy
> Bragg
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What do you think Jim H?
http://www.siemens.com/index.jsp?sdc_p=d1184570i1184794lmn1182567o1444796pFEcfs2t4u20z2&sdc_sid=10822567630&;
"The propulsion unit also produces 30 times more
torque (over 300 kilonewtonmeters) than a conventional
generator. "
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://powerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/news/carbon-lead-acid-batteries-0502/?cid=pet050207
The theoretical limit for the chemistry itself is 170
Whr/kg. Conventional batteries harness only 30 Whr/kg
to 50 Whr/kg.
According to Mil Ovan, Sr. Vice President of Firefly,
the fundamental advance embodied in Microcell
technology is the use of carbon-graphite foam, which
replaces the conventional lead grid as an electrode.
During manufacturing, the foam is exposed to a lead
slurry, creating a lead-coated surface having the dual
advantages of greatly reduced weight and greatly
increased surface area. The 3D battery uses a
carbon-graphite foam for the negative electrode, and a
conventional plate for the positive electrode. In the
3D2 battery, both positive and negative electrodes are
made of carbon-graphite foam. These two configurations
allow designers to optimize for either cost or
performance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What would they use to cool that consistently? It said it had to be
cooled to minus 246. I would think that in order to keep that cool a
huge stash of cooling gas be required?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rod Hower
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 7:55
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: White Zombie motor?
What do you think Jim H?
http://www.siemens.com/index.jsp?sdc_p=d1184570i1184794lmn1182567o144479
6pFEcfs2t4u20z2&sdc_sid=10822567630&
"The propulsion unit also produces 30 times more torque (over 300
kilonewtonmeters) than a conventional generator. "
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much current are you pulling from tghe batteries and how low do you
allow the voltage to drop while driving?
Are you sure the Deka is an AGM and not a gel cell? Deka makes both.
> I've been trying to derermine my range and correlate
> it to battery voltage.
>
> The system as it stands:
>
> 10 x 12 = 120 V, mostly Group 24 batts. The last one
> I put in is a Group 27 because I want to determine the
> difference between the two.
>
> Based on gut feel, and other's experiences, the car
> should very safely do 15 miles on a fresh pack. But,
> I've never seen that kind of range. So, I have been
> checking voltages and here is what I found:
>
> On brand new flooded Group 24 (Johnson Controls):
> Start ~13.xx (surface charge)
> After 2 miles = 12.94
> After 4 miles = 12.75
> After 6 miles = 12.70
> After 8 miles = 12.57
>
> After each 2 mile stretch, I let the car rest from 1-5
> hours before measuring.
>
> Old Deka Group 24 AGM
> Start = 13.1
> After 2 miles = 12.76
> After 4 miles = 12.60
> After 6 miles = 12.50
> After 8 miles = 12.38 (with one at 12.33 and that one
> won't hold a load at all without sagging to 11 V).
>
> Brand new Group 27 Flooded
> Old Deka Group 24 AGM
> Start = 13.xx surface charge
> After 2 miles = 13.15
> After 4 miles = 12.87
> ... ???
> ... ???
>
> So what would my real world range be if I had a
> complete set of brand new 12 V Group 24 flooded, Deka
> AGM or Group 27.
>
> I calculated 20 miles based on the website, but I'm
> only seeing 8 miles.
>
> Can someone explain?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They likely cool it with Helium.
http://www.janis.com/p-ccrs.html
The good thing is that (being superconducting) once it's down to
operating temp it's not likely to warm back up during operation so you
don't need a lot of power to maintain the low temp. WZ could do it by
carrying a dewer of liquid Helium although that gets rather expensive
after a while. } ; ] Of course, if it ever gets above ~27K (that's
the same as -246C) the magnets wil instantly quench and you'd be stuck
until you could get it back down to operating temp.
Trot, the lab-bound, fox...
On 5/3/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What would they use to cool that consistently? It said it had to be
cooled to minus 246. I would think that in order to keep that cool a
huge stash of cooling gas be required?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
What do you think Jim H?
http://www.siemens.com/index.jsp?sdc_p=d1184570i1184794lmn1182567o144479
6pFEcfs2t4u20z2&sdc_sid=10822567630&
"The propulsion unit also produces 30 times more torque (over 300
kilonewtonmeters) than a conventional generator. "
Rod
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have one that came off a 1968 912 Porsche , I could let you have the fly
wheel also . It has a nice taper lock hub ... Steve Clunn . Dose anybody on
the list know if this would fit the vw.
>
> From: "Bart Grabman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2007/05/03 Thu AM 03:25:33 EDT
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> I'm working on converting a '71 VW Super Beetle for my first EV project, and
> am running into some troubles, primarily with getting parts. I need an
> adaptor assembly for an air-cooled VW to an 8" Advanced motor. If anyone
> has one, or knows of somewhere that has some in stock, please let me know.
> I'd rather not build my own. I can pay today...
>
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31&product_id=1508
>
> Bart G
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
> Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: RE: White Zombie motor?
> What would they use to cool that consistently? It said it had to be
> cooled to minus 246. I would think that in order to keep that cool a
> huge stash of cooling gas be required?
Or run in Alaska in the winter, the Midnight Run, all day, in the
winter?Howbout 50 below, but the badd-eries won't like it, thou?
Mike Willmon will run it for ya!?
Seeya
Bob, in tropical CT.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It should. As far as I know, all of the air cooled VWs and Porsches
shared the same transmission mounting pattern.
I.e. The 914 uses a 911 transmission with a VW motor mated to it. Later
model 912s used the same VW motors.
I know there were at least two different sized transmission input shafts.
There were a few differences in flywheels and clutches, but this only
maters when you are trying to mate a clutch to a flywheel and/or clutch to
the transmission input shaft.
> I have one that came off a 1968 912 Porsche , I could let you have the fly
> wheel also . It has a nice taper lock hub ... Steve Clunn . Dose anybody
> on the list know if this would fit the vw.
>>
>> From: "Bart Grabman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2007/05/03 Thu AM 03:25:33 EDT
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>
>> I'm working on converting a '71 VW Super Beetle for my first EV project,
>> and
>> am running into some troubles, primarily with getting parts. I need an
>> adaptor assembly for an air-cooled VW to an 8" Advanced motor. If
>> anyone
>> has one, or knows of somewhere that has some in stock, please let me
>> know.
>> I'd rather not build my own. I can pay today...
>>
>> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31&product_id=1508
>>
>> Bart G
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft
>> Office
>> Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>>
>>
>
>
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neither?
Manual is generally accepted as easiest to adapt to an electric motor
but It kind of depends on FWD vs RWD.
Lots of recent discussion on when and how an automatic shifts may not
automatically match up with electric motors.
( for a manual setup, 300zx with 9",Z1k, and the stock tranny, I start
in second and shift to third. occasionally use 4th if I hit 75 or 80.
Point is, first gear is to low )
If you have room for it in a RWD vehicle,And you are considering A DC
conversion, next time I would try dual motors. I think it is less "adapting"
It is surprising how noisey that old gearbox is without the motor
exhaust to drown it out; must use a rpm sensor and a controller that
will protect your motor from a missed shift. (voice of experience!)
If you have the money for AC, the rpm range is so wide that the manual
tranny can be locked in one gear.
If you get a transaxle with a built in reduction, this is also a no
transmission.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob> Most people do manuals. Automatics are too
Bob> inefficient.
So your adaptor setup has to include some sort of flywheel so you have
somewhere to attach a pressure plate and clutch, right?
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
steve> I have one that came off a 1968 912 Porsche , I could let you
steve> have the fly wheel also . It has a nice taper lock hub ... Steve
steve> Clunn . Dose anybody on the list know if this would fit the vw.
It should. My first 356 had a VW Type 1 motor.
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a never installed, untouched buck-enhanced PFC-20 to part with.
Dealing with motor vehicle code in PA has kept me from getting my EV on
the road and now I probably need to sell it, so for the moment the PFC-20
is superfluous to my needs.
$1800; talk to me if you're interested.
--- End Message ---
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is best to keep the transmission unit that came with the vehicle. To do
a conversion from automatic to manual may required a different steering
column ignition switch and start module which is different between the two
transmissions and installing a clutch peddle and linkage, relocation of the
rear transmission mount and changing the length of the drive line.
Now if you have a center console in a vehicle that accepts either a
automatic or manual shifter and both uses a single rod or cable shifter
unit, the same rear transmission mount and the same drive line, and uses a
automatic that is design for torque converter lock up,(many are not), or use
a torque converter eliminator with a external hydraulic pump that is rated
for the same oil pressure of the transmission, which ranges from 80 to 120
lbs in some transmission and a manual value body that allows you to shift in
stay in that gear which eliminates the vacuum modulator and down shift
cable, this may work for you.
So, it may make a difference, depending on the vehicle and what type of
driving you want to do.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 4:18 AM
Subject: Automatic or Manual?
>
> Is it generally easier to convert a car with an automatic or manual
> transmission (or doesn't it matter)? I have an '83 Honda Civic Wagon with
> a
> manual transmission that I'm considering as a conversion candidate.
>
> Thx,
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
> "The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
> but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would beg to differ. It depends on the automatic. A newer one with
electronic control and the converter locked might surprise you.
Yes, old slush box types,turbo hydros, etc are lossy.
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Bob> Most people do manuals. Automatics are too
> Bob> inefficient.
>
> So your adaptor setup has to include some sort of flywheel so you have
> somewhere to attach a pressure plate and clutch, right?
>
> Skip
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regarding efficiency, I suspect the most efficient, and lightest, would be a
manual without clutch or flywheel, with thin gear lube, that is geared so
that it is running straight through most of the time. Of course everyone
who drives the car would have to be able to drive stick without a clutch.
I'm guessing that a properly done automatic without a flywheel or torque
converter won't be too far behind, and will have less learning curve,
although getting it to work right will take some work. Personally, I
suspect an automatic with no flywheel or converter will be pretty close to
the same efficiency as a manual with flywheel and clutch in stop and go city
driving, since you're not wasting energy spinning up all that rotational
mass. But it's not simple.
Dual motors and no gearbox sounds interesting, but launching without gear
reduction sounds like it would take a lot of current and be tough on the
batteries to me, but I haven't tried it.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Automatic or Manual?
Most people do manuals. Automatics are too
inefficient.
Your '83 won't have as much capacity for batteries as
newer models, but if you're looking for something for
in-town, low speeds, it should be fine.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the detailed reply, Roger!
> That you've already found Uve's calculator and aren't afraid
> to use it bodes well. ;^>
In addition to anecdotal reports, it seems like the only real way to get
a good combination of parts and performance the first time, unless
you're quite lucky, or very forgiving in terms of performance.
> Perhaps you've mentioned your planned vehicle specs in the past
> and I've forgotten, but at this point all I have to work with
> is that you plan a lightweight 2f1r vehicle with a 6.7" ADC
> and want to keep up with 75mph traffic.
No worries, as long as I'm not boring everyone else! Check below my
signature, I'll cut to the chase here. The plan is to slip under 1000
pounds empty (<400 chassis, <100 body, <400 batteries, <100 motor, and
precious little else), fantasy target is actually 800. Basic usage is
commute and errands, 30 miles round trip -- highway-capable preferred
(that's where 75mph comes from) but perhaps not absolutely necessary.
I was hoping to run AGMs and individual chargers, but the math isn't
working well to balance power, weight, and range. Eight 12V Optima D34
Yellow Top batteries total ~352 pounds, which meets the weight, but not
the range. Large NiCds seem to fit, but are tough to find. Lead is easy
to find, but HEAVY. Drivetrain will be single-speed chain-drive at
first, with possible migration to belt and/or transmission after proof
of concept.
> The big question is how much power will the vehicle need to maintain
> a given speed (e.g. 60mph or 75mph). Since you are not converting a
> vehicle for which CdA data is available, this might be tricky.
I've been assuming .29, referencing a Boxter (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient ) Even if I'm less slick
than a Boxter in terms of details, I think this is an achievable target,
with less frontal area, no wipers, minimal windscreen, and a tail
dragger profile to shed air well off the backside.
> Playing with Uve's calculator (1400lb after conversion, 0.25Cd,
> 12ft^2 A, 0.95 drive efficiency, 0.0015 rolling resistance and
> 0.003 brake/steering drag, and 185/75R14 tires for 839.8rev/mi),
> yields an estimate of 5.7HP @ 60mph, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (still air, no incline).
Thanks -- I needed some of these values as better estimates! I think I
can do better for weight, but worry about the Cd. I'll play some more
with the calculator, but feel pretty good about that 60mph figure. As
for the 75mph requirement, that is a realistic short-term burst of what
IMHO is required to merge here without slowing down other traffic. I
only spend 5-10 minutes on the freeway, regardless.
> Assuming the 6.7" you're considering is the K91 flavour...
It is.
> then the curves on EV Parts' site suggests that on 75V it can only
> sustain the 11+HP required for 70mph+ speeds (best case; figure
> on more power with a headwind or even a slight grade) for 5-15min.
> At 96V it can do 12hp+ for up to 30min before overheating.
So I definitely need 96V. That helps define the requirements.
> At 75V, 12.5HP is hit at about 3000RPM; on 96V you're up to about
4000RPM.
> So, while Peter is right that gearing for the redline at your top
speed
> will ensure you have the lowest possible gear ratio you can use, it
does
> not mean you will actually be able to pull redline/top speed.
Thanks for the clarification -- this spells out clearly what I was
thinking was the downside of going with one final-drive ratio. My 4x4
has 20 forward speeds and 4 reverses (5-speed up front, intermediate
case, and t-case), so I've pondered on finding the 'perfect gear'
before. I'll redo those calcs with 4000 in mind for the rpm at 70.
> Play with Uve's calculator for a bit, dialing in inclines of the
> sort of roads you will need to drive on and see what happens to
> the HP/torque requirements.
Will do. I'd love for this car to be able to run the foothills, but
until battery technology improves and/or cheapens, I can keep it to the
flatlands around Sacramento, with a few percent grade here and there.
The next degree of difficulty is assessing voltage sag through the
charge. How much delta is reasonable to assume for lead, NiCd, or AGM?
Randii
Postscript Summary:
I'm shooting for a true minimum of bits, as simple a roadster as
can be;
lighter is better performance and easier to build, as well:
* Battery, controller, motor
* Steering wheel, throttle, brake pedal, seat, seatbelts
* Frame/Body-pan, suspension, steering, brakes, tires, wheels
* Electrics to support directionals as well as brake, running,
and headlights
Additional nice-to-haves include body, windscreen, locks, and
basic instrumentation
(speedo, odo, E-meter) Things I don't need and don't want to
bother with (doors,
window, roof, climate control, radio). The E-woody is a role
model (excellent
simplicity!), though mine will be more metal and fiberglass, and
probably a
larger motor and more batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland> It is best to keep the transmission unit that came with the
Roland> vehicle. To do a conversion from automatic to manual may
Roland> required a different steering column ignition switch and start
Roland> module which is different between the two transmissions and
Roland> installing a clutch peddle and linkage, relocation of the rear
Roland> transmission mount and changing the length of the drive line.
??? I don't think this applies in my case. As I indicated, my Civic has a
5-speed manual transmission already. I am considering conversion from ICE
to EV, not conversion from automatic to manual transmission.
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not necessarily - ditch the clutch!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: Automatic or Manual?
Bob> Most people do manuals. Automatics are too
Bob> inefficient.
So your adaptor setup has to include some sort of flywheel so you have
somewhere to attach a pressure plate and clutch, right?
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm definitely interested!
E-mail me or call me at 503-981-3221
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:04 AM
Subject: FS: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
I have a never installed, untouched buck-enhanced PFC-20 to part with.
Dealing with motor vehicle code in PA has kept me from getting my EV on the
road and now I probably need to sell it, so for the moment the PFC-20 is
superfluous to my needs.
$1800; talk to me if you're interested.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, sorry! I can get it cheaper from Rich, and less freight!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:04 AM
Subject: FS: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
I have a never installed, untouched buck-enhanced PFC-20 to part with.
Dealing with motor vehicle code in PA has kept me from getting my EV on the
road and now I probably need to sell it, so for the moment the PFC-20 is
superfluous to my needs.
$1800; talk to me if you're interested.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Shawn
WTG on the runs! Did you happen to take any pics or
video??
Just a quick note to say congrats, be way cool to get
to the hundred MPH club huh? 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do I understand that right, 97 bux for a used 42ah agm?
Try this,
http://www.remybattery.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=9A34
or this
http://www.remybattery.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=34XCD
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rob&Amy Smith
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 3:13 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Budget AGMs (Universal Power Group)
>
> Can anyone give any feedback on the cheaper UPS type AGMs out there?
> It seemed like some folks were trying these out back in '05 but I
> didn't find anything since. In particular I had tripped across the
> Universal Power Group UB12500s, which claim to be a replacement for
> Hawker Genesis G42EPs. They are $97 with free shipping at apex
> battery, compared to the lowest price I'd seen on the Hawkers of $179
> plus shipping.
>
> Sounds too good to be true, any comments?
>
> Rob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rod
I "think" I'm busy enough for the moment, LMAO.
Cya
Jim Husted
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What do you think Jim H?
> http://www.siemens.com/index.jsp?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rob,
I am running these and a few other EV'ers also have seen the
price and compared them to others and noticed that even the
1-year warranty should give them a better deal than other
brand batteries.
I do not know where you are located - if there is no dealer
in your immediate neighborhood (you talk about shipping from
your dealer to you, but in reality Apex will likely order them
for you at UPG), so UPG will ship them to you and they charge
no shipping cost at orders $1500 and up - it could make sense
to contact UPG directly and get dealer price for them.
You may need to find a buddy to order enough batteries to stay
over the free shipping quantity, dependent on your (voltage)
needs. There still is quite a difference between the price
you mention and the price UPG ships them for.
Their shipping is fairly reasonable though - about $100 IIRC,
in case you decide to order a batch for less than $1500.
Note that UPG allows a mix of batteries in an order and if the
total is over $1500 they don't charge shipping.
Note that this assumes they can ship to a loading dock - they
can ship to your residential driveway, but the shipping
company charges an extra fee for that, which you must pay.
I believe it is $40.
Bottom line is: I think many EV'ers have a large enough battery
order to deal with the manufacturer, not with the retail guys,
though retailers gladly take your money.
I have now almost 7000 miles on my UB121100
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rob&Amy Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:13 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Budget AGMs (Universal Power Group)
Can anyone give any feedback on the cheaper UPS type AGMs out there?
It seemed like some folks were trying these out back in '05 but I didn't
find anything since. In particular I had tripped across the Universal Power
Group UB12500s, which claim to be a replacement for Hawker Genesis G42EPs.
They are $97 with free shipping at apex battery, compared to the lowest
price I'd seen on the Hawkers of $179 plus shipping.
Sounds too good to be true, any comments?
Rob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What am I, stupid?
He didn't say anything about them being used. For some reason I was thinking
they were surplus....
On Thu, 3 May 2007 7:47:01 -0600, Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do I understand that right, 97 bux for a used 42ah agm?
>
> Try this,
> http://www.remybattery.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=9A34
>
> or this
> http://www.remybattery.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=34XCD
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Rob&Amy Smith
>> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 3:13 AM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Budget AGMs (Universal Power Group)
>>
>> Can anyone give any feedback on the cheaper UPS type AGMs out there?
>> It seemed like some folks were trying these out back in '05 but I
>> didn't find anything since. In particular I had tripped across the
>> Universal Power Group UB12500s, which claim to be a replacement for
>> Hawker Genesis G42EPs. They are $97 with free shipping at apex
>> battery, compared to the lowest price I'd seen on the Hawkers of $179
>> plus shipping.
>>
>> Sounds too good to be true, any comments?
>>
>> Rob
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Shawn and All,
Wow, congrats on the new record!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wednesday evening the Lawless Industries AGNS (All Go No Show)
motorcycle set a new NEDRA 72 volt record for the 1/8th mile of 8.86
seconds @ 77.11 MPH on good old fashion, 3 year old Hawker
AGM's....with a stiff head wind and 54 degree temp but the little bike
didn't seem to mind on it's way to a 14.1 @ 87 mph 1/4 mile.
To put this into perspective, this little 72V bike ran a quicker 1/4
mile than an original 396 Chevelle big block muscle car. Here's another
comparison....though today's low 12 second White Zombie runs the 1/8
mile in the mid-7s, in 2001 at the Las Vegas NEDRA drags the low 14 -
high 13 second capable version of it ran an 8.887 @ 72.40 mph 1/8th ET.
I'd say this kind of performance from a 72V bike is damn impressive!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Derrick,
Could you share your experience with the DOT in PA?
Thanks,
Barry Oppenheim
Wrightstown, PA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Derrick J Brashear
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:04 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: FS: buck-enhanced PFC-20, never installed
I have a never installed, untouched buck-enhanced PFC-20 to part with.
Dealing with motor vehicle code in PA has kept me from getting my EV on
the road and now I probably need to sell it, so for the moment the PFC-20
is superfluous to my needs.
$1800; talk to me if you're interested.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I read Shawn's post and thought.. "Hey cool! Way to go Shawn"
Then I read John's post and thought.. "HOLY SHIT!! Way to GO Shawn!!!"
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Wayland
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:11 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
>
> Hello Shawn and All,
>
> Wow, congrats on the new record!
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday evening the Lawless Industries AGNS (All Go No Show)
>> motorcycle set a new NEDRA 72 volt record for the 1/8th mile of 8.86
>> seconds @ 77.11 MPH on good old fashion, 3 year old Hawker
>> AGM's....with a stiff head wind and 54 degree temp but the little bike
>> didn't seem to mind on it's way to a 14.1 @ 87 mph 1/4 mile.
>
> To put this into perspective, this little 72V bike ran a quicker 1/4
> mile than an original 396 Chevelle big block muscle car. Here's another
> comparison....though today's low 12 second White Zombie runs the 1/8
> mile in the mid-7s, in 2001 at the Las Vegas NEDRA drags the low 14
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
So today I was giving some serious thought to doing a direct drive
conversion for the Miata using two 8" motors or one 11" motor,
instead of retaining the gearbox/clutch with a single 9" motor.
I presume the main drawback is much higher current requirements
during low-speed acceleration - anyone know typical battery amps for
a Warp11 (for example) under acceleration?
Anyone have any general advice on the direct drive idea? (e.g "don't
do it", perhaps ;)
-Ian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marty> Regarding efficiency, I suspect the most efficient, and lightest,
Marty> would be a manual without clutch or flywheel, with thin gear
Marty> lube, that is geared so that it is running straight through most
Marty> of the time. Of course everyone who drives the car would have to
Marty> be able to drive stick without a clutch.
My wife would drive this on occasion. I'm not that good at driving without
a clutch and am guessing she wouldn't be thrilled with the idea either. So
if this (or any other manual transmission) car turns out to be the eventual
conversion platform it will have to have a clutch.
Marty> I'm guessing that a properly done automatic without a flywheel or
Marty> torque converter won't be too far behind, and will have less
Marty> learning curve, although getting it to work right will take some
Marty> work.
Potential efficiency issues aside, I'm also not keen on making an automatic
work, based on what I've read here. I'll have my hands full with the
basics.
Marty> Dual motors and no gearbox sounds interesting, but launching
Marty> without gear reduction sounds like it would take a lot of current
Marty> and be tough on the batteries to me, but I haven't tried it.
Also, probably not a good option. Range will be short enough and cost will
be high enough without immediately toasting a battery pack.
So, I have this 83 Civic wagon with a 5-speed manual transmission. I
realize that keeping the batteries out of the passenger compartment is a
problem and that it's not a very large car. Still, the wagon has larger
rear brakes (though still drums) than the other Civics of that era. I think
I can upgrade the front brakes to '85 Accord rotors and later model Civic
calipers (larger pads). If I dump some extra bucks in it and go with AC the
"free" regen capability will give me even better brakes. I can also fairly
easily upgrade the spring rate in the rear (it has elliptical springs - just
add a leaf). Despite its age the body is in good condition, so I don't
think I'll need to do any rust repair (it does need a paint job). Oh, and
my wife likes it. "It's cute!" (She found it on eBay a couple years ago.)
So, is it a decent candidate or do the negatives outweigh the positives?
Thx,
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 3 May 2007, joe wrote:
Oops, sorry! I can get it cheaper from Rich, and less freight!
Their web site claims $1550+$300 for the buck enhancement...
But if you're interested, talk to me anyway.
--- End Message ---
