EV Digest 6736
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC Questions - Just got my donor pickup!!!-
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: DD, Cog Calcs, aero
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: AC Questions - Just got my donor pickup!!!-
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Rectactor Controller Suggestions
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AC Questions - Just got my donor pickup!!!-
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rectactor Controller Suggestions
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Batteries Made from Beer, (Brewery Waste Water )?
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: AC Questions - Just got my donor pickup!!!-
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Linux EDA Dexign Software.
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Linux EDA Dexign Software. and drawing
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Rectactor Controller Suggestions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Rectactor Controller Suggestions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Beware Blems
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Replacing my Curtis
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Mechanical PWM Was: Building your own, Commercial Contactor
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dmitri> You might need to go with a DC system for that. AC systems with
Dmitri> 150+ HP don't look cheap.
>> Also here are the specs for the v6 that is in the pickup right now:
>> 150 hp (112 kW) at 4800 rpm
>> 180 ft·lbf (244 N·m) of torque at 3600 rpm
>> I would like to match or exceed this with the electric drive system.
According to the Metric Mind's FAQ you'll probably need an electric motor
rated at about one-quarter the horsepower rating of your ICE (37-40hp) to
match the horsepower of your V6. I'll leave it to interested parties to
read the details (question 4):
http://www.metricmind.com/qa.htm
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
Congrats! Ditto on sending pictures, please. Have
you thought of posting your bike on dragtimes.com,
yet?
Lyle
--- wrote:
> If you find something they will let him run bring
> your son down to Ohio
> to our shop and let's get it built !!!!
> Maybe my 12 year lod son Trevor can help out as
> well. I've got lot's
> of goodies laying around.
>
> Shawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:55 AM
> Subject: Re: FW: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
>
> In light of receiving recent information, I would
> like to redirect the
> below
> comments to Denis Stanislaw.
>
> Also with the appropriate amount of accolade going
> to Shawn for his
> dedication,
> inspiration and encouragement.
>
> It goes beyond your shop.....
>
> 3 days, wow.
> I have a 14 yr old son drooling about building
> something from
> scratch... and
> PoDC is just weeks away...
>
> Is there a minimum age limit at the track, for other
> than Jr. Dragsters.
>
> Can a 14yr old drive a bike, how about a Legends
> car? Will Hagerstown
> let me run
> a 50mph Elec-trak? ;-)
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
> > I read Shawn's post and thought.. "Hey cool! Way
> to go Shawn"
> >
> > Then I read John's post and thought.. "HOLY SHIT!!
> Way to GO Shawn!!!"
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> > I-5, Blossvale NY
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> >> Behalf Of John Wayland
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:11 AM
> >> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >> Subject: Re: AGNS bike sets new NEDRA record
> >>
> >> Hello Shawn and All,
> >>
> >> Wow, congrats on the new record!
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday evening the Lawless Industries AGNS
> (All Go No Show)
> >>> motorcycle set a new NEDRA 72 volt record for
> the 1/8th mile of 8.86
> >>> seconds @ 77.11 MPH on good old fashion, 3 year
> old Hawker
> >>> AGM's....with a stiff head wind and 54 degree
> temp but the little
> bike
> >>> didn't seem to mind on it's way to a 14.1 @ 87
> mph 1/4 mile.
> >>
> >> To put this into perspective, this little 72V
> bike ran a quicker 1/4
> >> mile than an original 396 Chevelle big block
> muscle car. Here's
> another
> >> comparison....though today's low 12 second White
> Zombie runs the 1/8
> >> mile in the mid-7s, in 2001 at the Las Vegas
> NEDRA drags the low 14
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Randii and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: DD, Cog Calcs, aero and Zap?
>>|Roger's calcs with major snippages:
>>|>how much power is needed to maintain a given speed (e.g.
>>|>60mph or 75mph). Playing with Uve's calculator (1400lb
>>|>after conversion, 0.25Cd, 12ft^2 A, 0.95 drive
>>efficiency, |>0.0015 rolling resistance and 0.003
>>brake/steering drag, |>and 185/75R14 tires for
>>839.8rev/mi), yields an estimate |>of 5.7HP @ 60mph,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED], and [EMAIL PROTECTED] That looks just like the
>> Freedom EV spec's, calc's by EVofA. We'll see soon if it
>> will actually do them. Who's, what vehicle is it?
>Jerry, it is my as-yet-vaporware trike, although the 6.7"
>ADC is winging its way here. FWIW, I hope to get my
>3-wheeler under that weight even with my carcass in it
I hope so. But you have plenty to cut. Try
reading/joining [EMAIL PROTECTED] archive from the
beginning, it's not too long but has some great stuff for
those building from scratch for several better methods that
weigh 1/2-1/3 your projections. I'll get 100 mile range at
less weight!!
>(much easier to chop weight off the trike's chassis than
>mine!), but I think I'll have more air resistance, and
>perhaps a fattish tire out back mucking up the rolling
>resistance.
Looking through it again I see you have 12sq' of
frontal area which will be rather hard to do, more like
14-15sq' minimum, probably 16-17 so increase your top speed
power needs by 20+%.
If you use AGM's instead of floodeds lope off another
15% range in light vehicles like this.
\>
>> And 2 ES-21 motors are about the same price as 1 K91 with
>> a lot more power and double torque for starting.
>NOW you tell me. ;D I've actually idly speculated on
>tossing a second motor in for faster acceleration (and the
>ability to murder my batteries before I get off my block).
In our size, you don't need more than a L91 with your
small pack as the pack would run out before the motor would
overheat. I have a ES-31/L91 for the Freedom EV prototype.
>
>> On direct drive, DD, the way for series motors is to
>> widen the motor's torque curve <snip>
>..or just cave in and add a tranny at a later date
>(likely).
On our size built as EV's, few ever use trannies, no
real reason with a series motor or 2. My Ewoody on just
36vdc and a 100 amp 36vdc GE Citi car motor did 60 mph with
terrible aero reasonably fast so you will be able to keep up
with traffic and beat them to at least 40 mph normally. And
easily start up a hill. Don't forget Killicycle uses 2
modified L91's I believe.
Now if you want to race you really need 2 motors to
get both great low end torque and good top end speed. Maybe
sell your K91 and get 2 ES-21's. Now to drag it, get a
144vdc pack of 16amphr Hawkers and a Contactor Controller
and you have a poor mans rocketship!!
2 motors are great with a CC as S/P them and the
batts plus 2 field weakening steps and a starting resistor
gives you 3 speeds and 2 speeds in each of those with the
field weakening at a good price.
>
>> I just gear for my top speed wanted, on my personal
>> Freedom it will be about 75mph.
>Any guess-timates on how long it will take to get there,
>Jerry?
No, I'll say when I do it though. I don't do EV
calculators well. I do know how fast my earlier EV went and
it will be faster.
> But aero should be at the beginning, not later in
> the design.
In my case, essentially designing off a flat plate (much
like an RC
car), and then adding DOM steel bent around the waistline
for rigidity
with some connecting diagonals (imagine an Ariel Atom built
as a trike),
I can jump into that hairball (airball?) later.
Sounds so heavy!!
Re-bulleted, for reference:
> Aero really is easy. It's just how much air you
accelerate.
> 1.) If you part the air easily which isn't hard
> 2.) bring it back together cleanly without moving much of
> it forward, a lot harder
> 3.) have a clean underbody
> 4.) well designed wheelwells
> 5.) smooth without obstructions
> 6.) places where air comes out sideways like door gaps
> 7.) cut the rear off cleanly without any rounding or even
> a slight spoiler
> ...you can have a very aero, long range at speed EV.
For fun:
1.) front end will likely resemble a bathtub Porsche
The front is great, the windshield back makes it about
40-45cd! also much larger than 12sq'FA.
2.) 2f1r tadpole/tail-dragger profile should help with this
Not if you are a convertible or open top.
3.) underbody should be dead flat in front of the swing arm
4.) front wheelwells will again borrow from the Porsche,
rear will be
increasingly exposed, much like a sport bike (enclosed would
be more
aero, but my personal taste is tough to explain).
The rear behind the body is in it's shadow so not a
problem. Your fat rear tire is aero wise. Actually lower
aspect, wider tires generally have lower rolling resistance
everything else being equal.
5.) should be fairly smooth
6.) no doors <grin> -- the stop behind the seats and before
the swing
arm is my biggest concern. I can't even visualize what that
will look
like yet, but it will have a motor sitting on the swing arm.
How's this, use the Porsche or a Karman Ghia front
end FG piece, cheap and readily available, Bug suspension,
frame with a well raked windshield with a 914 style roof
that pops up to get out? Cut the frame to length to take the
rear suspension, and build your rollcage inside that. For
the rear, just cut it off behind the driver or bend it
inward gently to where you want. Aero wise it probably
doesn't matter how long it is.
Or check out the Sea Lion EV, other 3wheelers on the
3wheel car websites for inspiration. There are several 3wh
car lists too like vortex3wheeler.
7.) I plan a slight spoiler, but I'm again worried a bit
about the
exposed rear wheel.
Don't forget the spoilers on the sides too!! The
exposed wheel shouldn't be a problem other than it's frontal
area.
Jerry Dycus
Great common-sense stuff, Jerry, I'll pack it away for
later, when the
trike starts to grow some 'glass
>
>Randii
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marty> This is another thing that sends shivers up my spine, the thought
Marty> of lightening a flywheel. Be very, very sure the person who's
Marty> doing it knows what they are doing.
No doubt. However... I suspect most failures occur because too much weight
is removed from the center leaving the ring gear precariously attached to
the rest of the flywheel. If the ring gear isn't needed you can probably
just get rid of it and leave the center of the flywheel beefy and intact.
In addition, angular momentum considerations mean a pound saved at the edge
is more valuable than a pound saved in the middle, so the same overall
effect can be had while removing less less material.
Other considerations include that electric motors (can) spin faster than an
ICE (a negative consideration) and that they are likely to have fewer stray
harmonics running around in the system trying to tear it apart because they
don't have pistons, rods and other non-rotational parts (a positive
consideration).
(OT: I wonder... Could you make a hybrid by replacing the starter motor
with a larger motor and a battery pack? think, think, think, ...)
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben, before anyone can answer your question on systems, you need to
tell us how much money you have to spend on the conversion, aside from
the donor car.
AC systems are very efficient, well built, and generally are liquid
cooled and reliable. They come with built in regen, they have flatter
power curves because the controller compensates somewhat for motor
RPMs, and lots of other goodies.
But they are something like 3-4 times the cost of a comparable HP DC
motor and controller.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
1) At 54V, you'd be discharging the batteries in each module
unevenly, correct? The 18V block would have 1/2 as much current going
through each battery as tge 36V module.
2) If you set module #1 to 36V and module #2 to 18V (or vice versa)
but left S3 open, then all current would flow through the higher voltage
module only, and nothing would flow through the lower voltage module, as
it would be blocked by the diode. Is that correct?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
Lee Hart wrote:
With 4 groups of batteries, it would look like this:
_______________M+
| __|__
_|_ D5 | B+ | 18/36v module #1
/_\ |_____| (2 18v batteries, D1, D2 S1)
| S3 / |B-
|____/ ____|
__|__ |
| B+ | _|_
|_____| /_\ D6
|B- |
|__________|____M-
This in turn could be used as the building block for even more
series/parallel circuits. This setup can give you any final voltage
that is a multiple of the basic module voltage. If each module is 18v
and you have four of them, you can get 18v, 36v, 54v, or 72v.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello Marty,
I have never push my accelerator on purpose to the floor, because I am
scare that I would break something which I did one time when my foot slip
off the break peddle onto the accelerator.
I can see that. You've got kind of an unstoppable force trying to move a
nearly immovable object thing going on there with the weight of your El
Camino. I wouldn't want to be in the middle. I'm hoping with only about
3000 lbs, my tires would break loose before anything breaks. The Jeep rear
axle might be iffy, but I've got a spare Ford 9" around just in case.
The motor coupler shear in half which was a large flange one that was turn
down engine crank shaft. The motor amp meter peg at 800 amps and had a
lot of battery post shrink back. The EV felt like it was hit in the back
at 60 mph with a semi.
I was thinking about using the end of a Chevy crank as a core for a motor
hub, but you know, most Chevy cranks, small block V8's anyway, are only cast
nodular iron. I don't know that it would be all that strong once I drilled
out the center. The few forged steel Chevy cranks that I know of aren't so
easy to find without paying big bucks. Do you know which yours was, cast or
forged?
Leaving my manual transmission in final gear with a axle ratio of 5.57:1,
I can keep the motor ampere down below 500 amps at a normal acceleration
and it will come down to 300 amps at a speed of 30 mph.
I normally drive in 2nd gear which is a 13.5:1 overall ratio which I can
keep it at 125-150 motor amps.
How often do you find yourself shifting to third in order to bring down the
RPM to get more amps for a power boost for passing or something? I'm
wondering if gearing for 1 to 1 for cruising (best efficiency), and having
an overdrive for passing would be a good idea?
Roland
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK,
I should have (am hoping for) around $16k for a landrover I am
selling (gas).
So that is what I am looking at in terms of budget for this project.
If anyone wants a '70 landrover let me know:)
Tehben
On May 4, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Timothy Balcer wrote:
Tehben, before anyone can answer your question on systems, you need to
tell us how much money you have to spend on the conversion, aside from
the donor car.
AC systems are very efficient, well built, and generally are liquid
cooled and reliable. They come with built in regen, they have flatter
power curves because the controller compensates somewhat for motor
RPMs, and lots of other goodies.
But they are something like 3-4 times the cost of a comparable HP DC
motor and controller.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Skip,
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Automatic or Manual?
Marty> This is another thing that sends shivers up my spine, the
thought
Marty> of lightening a flywheel. Be very, very sure the person who's
Marty> doing it knows what they are doing.
No doubt. However... I suspect most failures occur because too much
weight
is removed from the center leaving the ring gear precariously attached to
the rest of the flywheel. If the ring gear isn't needed you can probably
just get rid of it and leave the center of the flywheel beefy and intact.
In addition, angular momentum considerations mean a pound saved at the
edge
is more valuable than a pound saved in the middle, so the same overall
effect can be had while removing less less material.
Yeah, that's the way I'd approach it, just reduce the diameter but leave the
thickness alone. I'd think that would be pretty safe, and like you said,
those pounds further from the center are the bad pounds. You might even be
able to reduce clutch diameter ifyou're not running a torquey motor, and cut
more off. Of course you've got to make sure it's balanced, not an
unbalanced flywheel used to make up for an unbalanced motor like some I've
seen.
Other considerations include that electric motors (can) spin faster than
an
ICE (a negative consideration) and that they are likely to have fewer
stray
harmonics running around in the system trying to tear it apart because
they
don't have pistons, rods and other non-rotational parts (a positive
consideration).
Yeah, and since you don't need to slip the clutch to get an EV rolling, the
flywheel should see less heat stress (positive factor).
(OT: I wonder... Could you make a hybrid by replacing the starter motor
with a larger motor and a battery pack? think, think, think, ...)
Man, think of the RPM that motor would be turning if the flywheel was doing
4000 RPM :). I think one of the newer hybrids isn't far from that though,
with a pancake motor between the engine and trans boosing an undersize ICE.
I can't remember if it was Honda or Toyota.
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The LEV200 can be purchased here:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/product/3205172
I remind you that 3 of the last 4 I bought were defective, have another
3 coming today, we'll see if they work. Maybe mis-labled and are 24v
coils not 12v, might check that.
The diodes Lee mentioned are $20 on digikey, not in stock.
It should also be noted that the diodes have a 1.25v drop. This isn't a
big deal for a 100 volt connection, but if used for 12v, that's a 10% hit.
I'm most interested in having the contactor controller setup as a backup
in case the electronic controller fails. It would be nice to be able to
drive the car home if that happens. Swap a few cable connects and get
back on the road.
Jack
Chet Fields wrote:
Thanks Lee! That's exactly what I was looking for. Much better arrangement with
2 Diodes and 1
contactor per block and I can build up using those blocks. I also like the fact
that I can get
regen at full voltage if I want.
Another question in regards to the AW80 contactor. Would it work for me? As
long as I watched the
amp draws carefully? I guess I am more worried about the voltage. The LEV200 is
a newer Kilovac
contactor. Around $60 I think. Not sure where to get them though. 12-900VDC and
500Amps. Would
that be better?
Thanks again,
Chet
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The rectactor circuit for *loading* the batteries has two diodes and one
SPST contactor per stage. Like this:
_______________B+
| |
_|_ D1 __|__+
/_\ ___ 18v
| S1 / | -
|____/ ____|
| |
__|__+ _|_
___ 18v /_\ D2
| - |
|__________|____B-
This is the basic building block you use to produce larger arrays. Treat
B+ and B- as the two terminals of a "battery" that has two switchable
voltages.
> I was hoping that I could get a bit more specific advice in regards
> to which components would be appropriate for this arrangement. I was
> thinking of the LEV200.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
You might need to go with a DC system for that. AC systems with 150+ HP
don't look cheap.
Not cheap but nicer IMHO. Roughly 80-90kW (peak shaft power) ACIM
should be similar in performance to a 112kW ICE. If you have the
torque curve of the ACIM in question (and your ICE) you
should be able to use one of those acceleration simulators
to see how you're doing for performance.
AC55 is heavy but has lots of torque, it should out-pull
your ICE in most driving - your existing peak torque value
happens with this motor all the way from zero up to around
3000 RPM - it should out-pull your ICE up to this point. Above
that, torque will drop, and power will remain at around 100hp
'till redline. If you mostly drive your ICE below around 3500 RPM
or so, the AC55 should be more powerful than your ICE. Above that,
it'll pull less than your ICE. This assumes you can provide
312 volts (after sag) to the controller, but that should be easy
because you only have to do it for 250 amps.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> (OT: I wonder... Could you make a hybrid by replacing the starter motor
>> with a larger motor and a battery pack? think, think, think, ...)
>
-snip-
> I think one of the newer hybrids isn't far from that though,
> with a pancake motor between the engine and trans boosing an undersize
> ICE. I can't remember if it was Honda or Toyota.
I'm sure someone can provide some Insight on the matter, they might even
consider it their Civic duty to respond.
Oh well, there goes my pun quota for the month.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny, is autorouting a drawing function ( keep your lines neat) or a design function ( keep you from making bad
connections)?
Danny Miller wrote:
Yeah Eagle's a good one. They have a pretty good Autorouter and that
gets to be indispensible. Once you have over a hundred wires and want
to move stuff around at will, autorouting is essential because it may
take days to rework the traces manually.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks everybody!
I am looking at the Linuxy ones you suggested.
here is a little more data I learned, FWIW to other non-EEs
The proper name is EDA for software that draws and then analyzes circuits.
a mother-ship: http://www.vlib-ee.org/Joomla/
another: http://www.eda.org/
VHDL is another standard along with SPICE and Verilog
More on gEDA GPL'd Electronic Design Automation is a Linux tool suggested by Jeff, specifically to draw circuits and
test them
http://sourceforge.net/projects/geda/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8438
TinyCAD is a free Windoze tool that says it has circuit symbols.
SmartDraw is a generic non-free but cheap Windoze tool that has circuit symbols
http://www.smartdraw.com
free vector drawing tools ( think Visio):
Dia
Inkscape
Xfig
Asymptote
brl-cad
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I have no interest in starting any OS wars here, just some info for
those wanting to design circuit baords in the *nix environment.
Geda
http://www.geda.seul.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
Lee,
1) At 54V, you'd be discharging the batteries in each module unevenly,
correct?
Yes, if you have just four groups of batteries. However there are ways
to minimize this unbalance. First, you can avoid using the 54v step
except briefly. Second, you can alternate between having one groups
series and the other parallel; then reverse the two so they take turns.
Third, in the other steps, batteries are in parallel, and will tend to
self-equalize even if they were initially not equal.
The system with six groups avoids this problem; it does have a 54v step
with all batteries loaded equally.
2) If you set module #1 to 36V and module #2 to 18V (or vice versa)
but left S3 open, then all current would flow through the higher voltage
module only, and nothing would flow through the lower voltage module, as
it would be blocked by the diode. Is that correct?
Correct. This behavior adds redundancy to this type of controller. A
blown fuse in one string does not stop you from driving; it just takes
some of the batteries "off line" and means that some steps won't work.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Jack Murray wrote:
The diodes Lee mentioned are $20 on digikey, not in stock.
It should also be noted that the diodes have a 1.25v drop.
The 1N3736 is just a part I had the specs handy for. It may be $20 new,
but has been around for decades and is common on the surplus market.
The 1.25v drop is the worst case maximum at 250 amps. The typical drop
is more like 0.8v at 250 amps, and 0.6v at 100 amps.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I wonder I one couldn't get a virtually free battery pack for a car if
they were willing to take apart old lead acids they picked up for free
and rehang the plates after scrapping them.
On Fri, 4 May 2007 12:35 pm, David Roden wrote:
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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I appreciate everyone's help with suggestions to replace my dead Curtis.
None of the other suggested websites had prices listed for their controllers
so I emailed a price quote request along with some questions.
The Zilla is indeed, the Cadillac of controllers. I've never heard a
negative thing about them or Otmar's service. If I had the time and the
extra cash, I'd just get on the list and wait. In fact, once the kiddies are
grown and I don't need a family hauler anymore, I'll build me that EV sports
car and buy a Zilla for sure.
For now, I just need to get back on the road and the mere 400 amps that the
Curtis delivered was just fine. I was able to sustain highway speeds with no
problem. I may be taking a risk with a less expensive controller in terms of
durability and service but I'm going to try to ask all the hard questions
from those guys before I buy. The Belktronix looks good but we can't exactly
see inside.
Frankly, I wish Otmar sold a simple Zilla ".5k" plug 'n play workhorse
controller for us suburban trodglodytes. That way I could be assured of
quality as well as cost by buying from a proven builder.
If anyone is running one of those other controllers, particularly the
Belktronix, please let me know. I'd love some feedback.
Rich
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Hello Marty,
This was not in the El Camino at the time which I transfer the motor,
controller and battery charger from a EV name Transformer I which was a 1975
Chevelle that I still have today in exact concurs perfect condition.
Transformer I had 90 each proto type 2 volt 300 ah cobalt lead acid cells
that were install in two heavy 1/4 inch thick aluminum cases that weigh
about 1500 lbs each. One in the front and one in the rear.
The total car weight was 7850 lbs. My daily driving was 2.54 miles to work
which 1.5 mile of it was a very steep hill. We at the time did not have a
speed limit here in Montana, so to attack this hill, I roller coast it like
you say truckers do. I had about 200 feet of drive to the inner state exit
entrance. From there it was a slight down hill run of about 1 mile before
the base of this hill.
I would run up to 70 mph pulling about 600 amps at the time, and when going
up this hill, I would ever so slightly reduce the pressure on the
accelerator as to maintain 600 amps, slowing down to about 50 mph at the
start of a exist, which was still another 1/2 mile up which had a speed
limit of 35 mph.
The down hill run of this road took a different path, which went under the
uphill side of this road. I then have a longer 2 mile down hill run, which
I could coast all the way to my garage with out any additional power.
Maybe, this is were the heavy 2 inch thick, 14 inch diameter may have help.
I do not make this run any more, because I retire from that job and move
another two miles further from this hill.
Once in a while I may go up this hill, which is now 1 mile of down hill, 1
mile of level driving, another mile of downhill and the last miles up this
hill. Coming down, I can still go the entire 5 miles which is a different
way down hill run, coasting all to way to and into my garage.
I did this run for 10 years, before I converted the EL Camino in 1986 to a
EV. I use the same motor, controller, battery charger, but use a 6 volt
Exide 235 AH battery. This El Camino ran for 15 years to 2000 which I
completely recondition it using air suspension, Mark Williams rear axle and
install Trojan T-145 260 AH batteries in April 2002, a Zilla 1K and a PFC-50
charger which I am still running today.
The EV now weighs 6860 lbs which lost about 1000 lbs and plan to replace the
batteries and body panels with carbon fiber in 2012 April which will drop it
to about 5500 lbs which is the original gross weight of this vehicle.
The El Camino Store in California which I get a lot of parts from, makes
complete carbon body panels and with a chrome moly frame, they have drop
there demo El Camino to 1800lbs with a 800 hp engine!!!
Now, how about that.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Automatic or Manual?
> Hi Roland,
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Hello Marty,
> >
> > I have never push my accelerator on purpose to the floor, because I am
> > scare that I would break something which I did one time when my foot
> > slip
> > off the break peddle onto the accelerator.
>
> I can see that. You've got kind of an unstoppable force trying to move a
> nearly immovable object thing going on there with the weight of your El
> Camino. I wouldn't want to be in the middle. I'm hoping with only about
> 3000 lbs, my tires would break loose before anything breaks. The Jeep
> rear
> axle might be iffy, but I've got a spare Ford 9" around just in case.
>
> > The motor coupler shear in half which was a large flange one that was
> > turn
> > down engine crank shaft. The motor amp meter peg at 800 amps and had a
> > lot of battery post shrink back. The EV felt like it was hit in the
> > back
> > at 60 mph with a semi.
>
> I was thinking about using the end of a Chevy crank as a core for a motor
> hub, but you know, most Chevy cranks, small block V8's anyway, are only
> cast
> nodular iron. I don't know that it would be all that strong once I
> drilled
> out the center. The few forged steel Chevy cranks that I know of aren't
> so
> easy to find without paying big bucks. Do you know which yours was, cast
> or
> forged?
>
> > Leaving my manual transmission in final gear with a axle ratio of
> > 5.57:1,
> > I can keep the motor ampere down below 500 amps at a normal acceleration
> > and it will come down to 300 amps at a speed of 30 mph.
> >
> > I normally drive in 2nd gear which is a 13.5:1 overall ratio which I can
> > keep it at 125-150 motor amps.
>
> How often do you find yourself shifting to third in order to bring down
> the
> RPM to get more amps for a power boost for passing or something? I'm
> wondering if gearing for 1 to 1 for cruising (best efficiency), and having
> an overdrive for passing would be a good idea?
>
> >
> > Roland
>
>
> Marty
>
>
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The key phrase is the "material not required for structural integrity".
Since no one is really going to know that, you are better off buying a
lighter flywheel that is designed to be light.
Otherwise you might as well guess how much rubber to scrap off your tire
sidewalls to make them lighter as well.
On Fri, 4 May 2007 1:14 pm, Marty Hewes wrote:
This is another thing that sends shivers up my spine, the thought of
lightening a flywheel. Be very, very sure the person who's doing it
knows what they are doing. There is a lot of centrifugal force acting
on a flywheel when they are spinning, and they have been known to fly
apart if they are structurally compromised, even just overheated a few
too many times. Don Garlits (the first guy into the 7's), I believe,
lost a big chunk of his foot to a flywheel explosion.
Back when I was racing, there were rules about that sort of thing. If
you wanted a light flywheel, you bought one that was approved. Even
then, in the faster classes, you ran a scattershield, pretty much a
bullet proof bell housing, or what amounts to a bullet proof vest for
the trans. In stock classes, you could run a stock flywheel, but I
suspect they'd frown upon having it lightened. In my camaros, I ran an
aluminum race flywheel, and a factory high performance lightweight
steel flywheel. Neither was terribly expensive. Depending on what
you're driving, you may be able to buy one for not much more than the
cost of the machine work anyway. There used to be places around that
could make flywheels for anything to spec.
Marty
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hankins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
A flywheel can be made "light" for EV use as you don't need the outer
Gear
ring for the starter and you don't need all that mass to keep the motor
running smoothly at idle or to keep you from stalling the motor at low
rpms.
So, you can machine off the outer diameter down to only the area
needed for
the clutch. The thickness can be reduced and any additional material
not
required for structural integrity can be removed with further
machining and
drilling.
David
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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