EV Digest 6744
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Two motor clarifications
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Two motor clarifications
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Two motor clarifications
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 120 V / 80 AH Flooded Pack using 0.08 V per mile
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Two motor clarifications
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Over voltage in a pack
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 120 V / 80 AH Flooded Pack using 0.08 V per mile
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Over voltage in a pack
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 120 V / 80 AH Flooded Pack using 0.08 V per mile
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve, TOPIC CHANGE Zilla Tach
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Electric Power Steering
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Electric Power Steering
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
27) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Gorilla Vehicles for sale on ebay
by Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve, TOPIC CHANGE Zilla Tach
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: DD, Cog Calcs, aero
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Electric Mini Cooper Videos
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
dale henderson wrote:
> parallel: if a controller is outputting 200 amps at 48
> volts then two motors in parallel will each get 100 amps at
> 48 volts, correct?
In parallel each motor will see the same voltage (48V), however, the
current does not have to divide equally between them.
If the motors are mechanically coupled together, then the current will
probably be divided reasonably equally between them. If the motors were
each tied to one of the drive wheels, then the current could be
radically different: for instance, if one wheel is spinning the motor
coupled to it will draw only a small part of the 200A while the motor
tied to the non-spinning wheel will draw most of the 200A and provide
torque to propel the car. Sort of a limited slip diff effect.
> Serial: if a controller is outputting 200 amps at 48 volts
> then two motors in series will each get 200 amps at 24 volts?
In series the motors will each see the full 200A, but the voltage does
not necessarily divide equally across them.
As above, if the motors are mechanically coupled together so that they
spin the same speed (and if the two motors are the same model, etc.),
then the voltage will likely divide reasonably equally. If the motors
are each ties to one of the drive wheels, and one wheel is spinning,
then it will have more/most of the voltage across it while the other
more slowly turning motor (wheel) will have only a small part of the
voltage across it.
I've wired my son's PowerWheels jeep like this; a 24V 75A controller
provides speed control while the original "hi/lo" switch connects the
motors in either series or parallel (the PowerWheels jeep uses a pair of
permanent magnet motors, with each motor directly driving one of the
rear wheels).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to an article in Popular Science April, 2007 -
http://www.time4.com/time4/microsites/popsci/futureofcars/tesla_p1.html
The Tesla uses 6,700 LAPTOP batteries, that they water cool.
There's another issue, and that is the availability of LiON batteries that
will produce the necessary trons that the Tesla (and any other EV needs.
6700 laptop batteries aren't cheap, no matter how many (in bulk) you buy.
I'm guessing that this adds $10, 15k to the price of the car (I could be
off by a few $k...)
Once the price of BATTERIES come down, and folks like AltairNano get out
of their exclusive contract with Phoenix Motorcars - (in 3 years, unless
they renegotiate)
we'll have competition to drive the price down (hopefully).
I wonder how much of that $30k car will be batteries?
I wonder how well my little truck will do when it weighs 1000 pounds less
than it currently does, and it has the amps that these Lithium Batteries
provide for the Tesla?
I'm hoping that the rear tires will spin, rather than snap drive-shaft
u-joints and the like.... (to take advantage of this extra juice, I'm
definitely going to want a Zilla....)
:-)
Here are some snippets from the link...
Lithium-ion batteries, introduced commercially in the 1990s, seemed to
offer a solution. They can hold about double the charge per pound of
anything that had come before. But the most common lithium-ion battery on
the market—its name, 18650, is based on its measurements of 18 millimeters
wide and 65 millimeters long—is designed for consumer electronics. It
takes nearly 7,000 of them to power a sports car.
And that, of course, creates other problems. What if one of the batteries
caught fire? (The danger of this was highlighted by last year's small
epidemic of exploding laptop batteries.) A smoldering computer is a
bummer; an electric car engulfed in flames is a catastrophe. Hence the
lithium-ion piñata parties in Straubel's backyard (Tesla later turned to a
failure-analysis lab for more rigorous testing).
(page 5 of 6)
Straubel then had to figure out the best way to physically assemble the
batteries. The team started by supergluing cells together. Straubel vetoed
this approach because it was deemed unsafe—and because he came home one
evening to find a battery pack permanently affixed to his kitchen table.
He eventually subdivided the battery pack into 11 sheets containing 621
cells apiece. In each sheet, the batteries slot into a structure that
looks like a miniature wine rack.
He then spent the better part of a year trying to keep the rig from
overheating. Originally he wanted to air-cool the battery pack. Air is
free, after all. But lithium-ion batteries are extremely sensitive to
heat. Consistent temperatures above 95 degrees inside the battery pack
would shorten the lives of the batteries. Because the pack was so big and
airflow so uneven, fatal hot spots kept popping up. The cooling team tried
a bunch of potential solutions—ducts, blowers, manifolds, plenums. After
months of work, they realized that sticking with air-cooling would mean
cutting the size of the battery pack, which would compromise the car's
range. Instead Straubel opted to create a water-cooling system. This
wasn't the work of a day; Tesla had to develop its own proprietary
technology. But the battery pack is now fitted with a lattice of tubes
that route cold water and antifreeze past each individual cell.
Fully charged and operating at peak efficiency, the battery pack gives the
Roadster a range of 250 miles. Straubel predicts that it will retain 70
percent of its energy capacity after five years and 50,000 miles.
"With the electric motor limited to 13,500 rpm and 250 horsepower, the car
tops out at a relatively modest 130 mph. "
Um. 13,500 rpm? its definitely an AC motor....
"Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/07/2007 12:26
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
cc
Subject
RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
I think we can take him for his word. The first time the Tesla was sold
it went for $125K. Now it is being sold for $96K. Right now they are
being made by hand but they are ramping up production line procedures
and working towards more automation. It just takes time. I believe for
them to survive they will have to improve production efficiency to get
the cost down in the market. The testimony he gave to congress said the
had planned on having the $30K car ready by the end of next year.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:23
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
Jody> Tesla is making great strides in cost reduction.
How can we tell that at this point? Clearly Tesla's intent is to move
down-market, however I think it's far from certain that they will be
able to achieve their stated goals at this point. Have they released
enough parameters for the White Star sedan to suggest they can meet
their $50k-$60k price point?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/ "The
hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties, but the
geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/EV-Electric-Vehicle-mfg-BUSINESS-FOR-SALE-car-
utility_W0QQitemZ300108837395QQihZ020QQcategoryZ11760QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ
rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.evsthatwork.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Once the price of BATTERIES come down, and folks like AltairNano get out
of their exclusive contract with Phoenix Motorcars - (in 3 years, unless
they renegotiate)
we'll have competition to drive the price down (hopefully).
ABG just posted a transcript of their recent interview with Altair's CEO.
Starts out very marketing-speaky but gets a bit more interesting
towards the end, including their pricing goals, hints at future deals
( They arent exclusive to Phoenix, BTW , as you claim ) and apparent
promise of seeing these batteries in hands of actual testers probably
in 2007.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/autobloggreen-qanda-altairnano-ceo-alan-gotcher/
Still, as the article starts out with lots of extraordinary claims, it
basically screams for extraordinary proofs, which has been reluctant
to come forth ...
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ed> I'm guessing that this adds $10, 15k to the price of the car (I
ed> could be off by a few $k...)
I think I read that Tesla is guaranteeing their battery subsystem for 100k
miles. They have yet to set a price for replacement packs. Consequently,
it's kind of hard to say how much it will add to the lifetime maintenance
cost of the vehicle. It might be the case that the initial packs contribute
$10k-$25k to the price of the car, but that would just be a guess.
Skip Montanaro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben> Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
Hang on a second while I locate my checkbook. ;-)
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure... this is the fella who designed the Doran. I talked to him
about that and he is basically burnt out and wants to leave the
business. He is also selling the Doran business for some huge amount.
I don't see how he thinks he will get those sorts of money for the
businesses though :)
On 5/7/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/EV-Electric-Vehicle-mfg-BUSINESS-FOR-SALE-car-
utility_W0QQitemZ300108837395QQihZ020QQcategoryZ11760QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ
rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.evsthatwork.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the Doran is included.
On May 7, 2007, at 12:44 PM, Timothy Balcer wrote:
Sure... this is the fella who designed the Doran. I talked to him
about that and he is basically burnt out and wants to leave the
business. He is also selling the Doran business for some huge amount.
I don't see how he thinks he will get those sorts of money for the
businesses though :)
On 5/7/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/EV-Electric-Vehicle-mfg-BUSINESS-FOR-SALE-car-
utility_W0QQitemZ300108837395QQihZ020QQcategoryZ11760QQssPageNameZWDV
WQQ
rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.evsthatwork.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ed wrote:
Are there aftermarket kits to convert drum rear-ends
to disk (+min-drum, for emergency brakes)?
Depends on the vehicle if there is an aftermarket kit for four wheel
disc brakes or not:
http://www.ssbrakes.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder what the listing fee from Ebay is on 2.1 million dollar asking
price. :)
Timothy Balcer wrote:
Sure... this is the fella who designed the Doran. I talked to him
about that and he is basically burnt out and wants to leave the
business. He is also selling the Doran business for some huge amount.
I don't see how he thinks he will get those sorts of money for the
businesses though :)
On 5/7/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/EV-Electric-Vehicle-mfg-BUSINESS-FOR-SALE-car-
utility_W0QQitemZ300108837395QQihZ020QQcategoryZ11760QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ
rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.evsthatwork.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's going to be hard to get around traditional LiIon chems 5% per
year loss of permanent capacity. But I'm guessing they are betting
that generic LiFePO4 batteries will be 'there' at that point.
Purportedly they don't lose 5% per year as a matter of course. At this
moment you can get them for $2/ah in small quantities in a prismatic
cell (as reported here) so in 5 years they should be dirt cheap,
considering they are so much better than the competition.
Also the Nanophosphate types, like Altair and the A123 offering, will
probably be cheap enough to OEM for EVs by then.
Hey I can hope! :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/7/07, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
ed wrote:
> Are there aftermarket kits to convert drum rear-ends
> to disk (+min-drum, for emergency brakes)?
Depends on the vehicle if there is an aftermarket kit for four wheel
disc brakes or not:
Hey you can always just swap out the whole axle and etc for one that
DOES have disc brakes :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/8/07, Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It's going to be hard to get around traditional LiIon chems 5% per
year loss of permanent capacity. But I'm guessing they are betting
And i just checked up on the thread of the A123 cell torture testing
.. one guy in RC forums pushed the cell over 1000 cycles when is
finally started showing signs of slight performance loss.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=672512&page=8
He did that while pushing the cell quite out of spec ( but hey, thats
real life, without BMS that is )
As to calendar life issues, only time will tell ;)
Thats actually sort of a sore point with any new battery type. How can
an automaker guarantee the pack will last 10 years, if the chemistry
has been out of the labs for just a year or so ? Either batteries will
have to be offered with separate warranty terms, or we are bound to
use tech that is at least 10 years old in the hypothetical mass
production EVs ?
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://tinyurl.com/2qp2x5
On 5/7/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/EV-Electric-Vehicle-mfg-BUSINESS-FOR-SALE-car-
utility_W0QQitemZ300108837395QQihZ020QQcategoryZ11760QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ
rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.evsthatwork.com/
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
dale henderson wrote:
> thank you and yes, sorry the motors are coupled, but that
> brings up an other question: would one master chain be enough
> to keep the motors working together and both provide equal
> power to the wheel [by the way this is a motorcycle]. I have
> the two smaller motor sprockets on top of each other so that
> the master chain makes an oval or rectangle shape looping all
> the sprockets see below
Yes, a chain coupling the two motor shafts is sufficient to keep them
spinning the same speed (at least until one strips its teeth ;^) If the
gears on the motor shafts are too small, you may not be able to keep
enough teeth in mesh with the chain to transfer the torque unless you
add an idler sprocket.
Have a search of the archives, it wasn't that long ago that Bill Dube
posted details of the Killacycle's drive configuration and an
explanation of how this setup happens to avoid excessive/unequal side
loading of the output shafts and their bearings.
Of course, for less 'extreme' applications one can probably get adequate
service life even with sub-optimal configurations.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to know how many Wh / mile I am getting. I am
using 0.08 V per battery = 0.8 V total per mile
(typical). 120 V / 80 AH Pack. Rated 80 AH at 20 A
rate and 650 CCA max.
Also, what range should I expect? 12 miles x 0.08 V /
mile / battery = .96 V. So, am I limited to only 12
miles with my new pack. Still more than the 8 that I
need, so I am OK, but I was shooting for 15 - 20 ????
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Run the chain like we do on the KillaCycle:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/DriveChain4.JPG
Look at the pictures before and after this one,
and read the captions to fully understand the whole set-up.
Since you are running two motors in a motorcycle,
you might as well copy what has been working great for us for years.
By the way, on a street machine, you
NEED to have rubber bushings connecting the
sprocket to the wheel hub. Either that, or some
other torsion spike absorber. Otherwise, you will
be throwing chains continuously and/or breaking
parts. The shock loads from hitting potholes is
like hitting the parts with a hammer.
There are no potholes or RR tracks on
the drag strip, and we are running a wrinkle-wall
slick with 6 psi, so we don't have to deal with these issues.
Bill Dube'
At 03:49 PM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
thank you and yes, sorry the motors are coupled,
but that brings up an other question: would one
master chain be enough to keep the motors
working together and both provide equal power to
the wheel [by the way this is a motorcycle]. I
have the two smaller motor sprockets on top of
each other so that the master chain makes an
oval or rectangle shape looping all the sprockets see below
... are spacers
xxx is the chain
S are the sprockets, two small in front [14
teeth] and one big in the rear [50 teeth]
..xxxxxxxxxxx
.xS
SSSx
..
.x
.SbigSx
.
.xS
.. SSSx
.
..xxxxxxxxxxx
..
Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: dale henderson wrote:
> parallel: if a controller is outputting 200 amps at 48
> volts then two motors in parallel will each get 100 amps at
> 48 volts, correct?
In parallel each motor will see the same voltage (48V), however, the
current does not have to divide equally between them.
If the motors are mechanically coupled together, then the current will
probably be divided reasonably equally between them. If the motors were
each tied to one of the drive wheels, then the current could be
radically different: for instance, if one wheel is spinning the motor
coupled to it will draw only a small part of the 200A while the motor
tied to the non-spinning wheel will draw most of the 200A and provide
torque to propel the car. Sort of a limited slip diff effect.
> Serial: if a controller is outputting 200 amps at 48 volts
> then two motors in series will each get 200 amps at 24 volts?
In series the motors will each see the full 200A, but the voltage does
not necessarily divide equally across them.
As above, if the motors are mechanically coupled together so that they
spin the same speed (and if the two motors are the same model, etc.),
then the voltage will likely divide reasonably equally. If the motors
are each ties to one of the drive wheels, and one wheel is spinning,
then it will have more/most of the voltage across it while the other
more slowly turning motor (wheel) will have only a small part of the
voltage across it.
I've wired my son's PowerWheels jeep like this; a 24V 75A controller
provides speed control while the original "hi/lo" switch connects the
motors in either series or parallel (the PowerWheels jeep uses a pair of
permanent magnet motors, with each motor directly driving one of the
rear wheels).
Cheers,
Roger.
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hmm.. so why then, do the faster, more powerful motors all have higher
> voltage ratings? It is because you can send more power for less amps
> drawn, and thus get more flowing over the same wires because of V=IR.
> Which is why power transmission lines are at huge voltages.
Precisely, it's easier and cheaper to build controllers with higher
voltage than it is with higher current, plus you don't need huge wires.
This means that higher voltage motors are more popular than lower voltage
ones that can handle higher current.
Plus they tend to be lighter/ easier to build since they can use thinner
wire which is easier to fill your (motor) slots with.
> I realize that Watts = volts * amps.. was a Physics major ;) What I
> was interested in was the notion of mitigating the limitations of
> lower voltage systems by deliberately running at 'over voltage' on the
> battery side, then having the controller chop things down to 144v,
> perhaps through a DC/DC. You'd have a bit of loss, but I haven't done
> the numbers as far as how much versus a copper run.
The motor/controller combo is effectively a DC/DC converter.
I might be wrong about the brushes seeing the pack voltage as an
instantaneous voltage versus the average voltage. My memory is fuzzy on
that right now (getting old sucks). However, when I'm wrong someone
usually corrects me. That's one of the things I love about this list, you
might get the wrong info from an individual, but you usually get the right
info from the list.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I don't see how he thinks he will get those sorts of money for the
> businesses though :)
>
A man can dream...
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, that's a new one. I've never heard anybody measure their range in
volts per mile.
How exactly are you doing that?
FWIW there is no real way to convert volts/mile into WH/mile, at least not
with any kind of accuracy.
You need to measure Amp Hours per mile to calculate WH/mile.
What kind of batteries are you using? Sounds like 12V flooded batteries,
there is a reason most folks don't use those...they suck as EV batteries.
Especially since it sounds like you don't have any usefull instrumentation.
As a guess, I'd guesstimate you are only getting 30-40 AHs out of them and
the pack is probably sagging down near 110V, or lower, while driving.
This would put you WH/mile around 300-350, a little high but not
unreasonable.
However, the above is just a SWAG (Seriously Wild A$$ Guess)
With the sparcity of information, there is no way to get any better. I
mean when you are basing a guess on other guesses...
> I want to know how many Wh / mile I am getting. I am
> using 0.08 V per battery = 0.8 V total per mile
> (typical). 120 V / 80 AH Pack. Rated 80 AH at 20 A
> rate and 650 CCA max.
>
> Also, what range should I expect? 12 miles x 0.08 V /
> mile / battery = .96 V. So, am I limited to only 12
> miles with my new pack. Still more than the 8 that I
> need, so I am OK, but I was shooting for 15 - 20 ????
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
> in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/7/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I might be wrong about the brushes seeing the pack voltage as an
instantaneous voltage versus the average voltage. My memory is fuzzy on
that right now (getting old sucks). However, when I'm wrong someone
usually corrects me. That's one of the things I love about this list, you
might get the wrong info from an individual, but you usually get the right
info from the list.
Having previously been corrected on this topic myself I feel somewhat
certain when I say that the brushes see the average voltage in the
case of a series wound motor.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> You need to measure Amp Hours per mile to calculate WH/mile.
Actually, I'd go one further and state that one needs to measure kWh and
distance travelled to calculate Wh/mi. Ah still only gives you a
ballpark estimate since you don't know just how low your batteries
really sagged when you accelerated from that last light, etc.
If you know Ah and distance, you can calculate Ah/mi which isn't all
that useful on its own. For lead acid batteries that aren't being
flogged too badly you can convert this to an estimate of the Wh/mi by
multiplying by the nominal pack voltage.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've done this on my Electro-Metro
> for 120k miles, my E-Jeep for 50k miles and now my E-Porsche. I think otmar
> has done as well on his.
I'm looking for anyone with Porsche experience. I'd like to hook my Z1k to my
Porsche 944 tach. I
tried hooking the Zilla tach output to the tach connection under the hood. No
luck. Has anyone
been successful doing this? Can I run a wire from the Zilla right to the tach?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone has any questions about this document linked, feel free to
contact me...
John Grigg
Tehben Dean said:
Sweet :)
> MR2 EHPS used with controller:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
I might try that.
Tehben
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Tehben,
I direct coupled a 180 volt PM motor to the original pump.
It runs on pack voltage of 144 volts though a little PWM KB Electronics
controller.
I throttled it down to about 35% full speed.
It runs all the time and idles at about 2 amps (more of course when you're
turning).
2 amps at 144 volts is not trivial, but not too bad.
It's been running for a year now.
Only problem was I had to install delay circuit to delay starting the unit by
a second or so to precharge the controller through a resistor to avoid welding
the relay contacts.
I think the controller compensates for the increased load when turning
somewhat. I have never ran it without the little controller, though, to find
out the difference.
I thought it was a little goofy when I was building the car but it turned out
to be the one thing that really made the car a joy to drive. I can shut it off
and drive hydraulic manual steering and save power, but I rarely do so anymore.
Heck, if you have the original pump, use it.
The KB electronics controller is model KBWD-16.
Discussed the application with an engineer at the company and he said I would
have no problems.
Seems he was right so far.
It's an AC controller that works fine on DC and can run a little higher
voltage.
It will give you 1/2 hp with the right resistor and has some interesting
operating options and limit controls.
It (or something similar) is a worthwhile option to consider. I wouldn't run a
pump on the 12 volt system.
It would be idling at 10 - 20 amps or so and go way up with a load. I have
enough problems keeping the 12 volt system happy.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> What are people doing for electric power steering?
> I have seen some electric power steering pumps on ebay. Has anyone
> worked out a controller to drive them so they wont be always full on?
>
> Thanks,
> Tehben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/7/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't see how he thinks he will get those sorts of money for the
> businesses though :)
>
A man can dream...
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
Don't underestimate the value of a business! Everything in a business
is worth something. It's mainly the customers that make it worth
anything.
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gorilla Vehicles is for sale on ebay for US $2,150,000.00
Pick up only, no shipping. Count me out.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,
First, you must have the speed sensor connected to Pin# 19, 20 and 22.
Next, you then in the Options Menu, you turn a) on and k) off for reading
rpm on tach.
With or without a speed sensor, you can turn a) off and k) on for reading
amps on tach. Try this see if you are getting a circuit to the tach.
I remember that Otmar told me that a tachometer works best if its is switch
to a 4 cycle engine type. My tachometer is a Stewart Warner, so there is a
selector switch in the back for a 8,6 or 4 cyclinder.
You may need a tach adapter which converts the pulse signal into a 12-volt
square wave your tach may use. MSD or Auto Meter makes these adapters.
Yes, I ran the wire directly from Pin# 11 directly to the sender input on
the tach.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve, TOPIC CHANGE Zilla
Tach
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I've done this on my Electro-Metro
> > for 120k miles, my E-Jeep for 50k miles and now my E-Porsche. I think
> > otmar
> > has done as well on his.
>
> I'm looking for anyone with Porsche experience. I'd like to hook my Z1k to
> my Porsche 944 tach. I
> tried hooking the Zilla tach output to the tach connection under the hood.
> No luck. Has anyone
> been successful doing this? Can I run a wire from the Zilla right to the
> tach?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2007 7:35:42 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap regen/DC-DC eliminator
<
You don't connect the field to the (now) high voltage alternator output;
you connect it to the 12v battery (usually through a rheostat). You
manually adjust the field current to get the desired output voltage.
This is how those cheap "120v from a car alternator" converters work.
>
This m-cycle has a 36 VDC nominal pack - could I use a rheostat with larger
resistance range but full pack input voltage to adjust field current? Or would
I be better off just tapping off a single 12 volt battery?
thanks,
Frank
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
keith vansickle wrote:
Do you have any titles/authors recommendations
Try "Competition Car Composites" by Simon McBeath, copyright 2000, 2002,
2004, ISBN 1 85960 624 5. This is an excellent "how to" book that
provides a lot of examples, strength and testing data, and other useful
practical information.
And "Moldless Composite Sandwich Aircraft Construction" by Burt Rutan,
copyrights from 1983-2005, ISBN 0-9774896-1-2. This one is by the master
of high performance composites himself.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a part about 3/4 through the video where she gets on the
throttle that's pretty neat:
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/multimedia.php?typeID=V&vidID=51
The motor sounds good, plus an under hood shot:
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/multimedia.php?typeID=V&vidID=50
--- End Message ---
