EV Digest 6757
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: More on NiMH
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More on NiMH
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Doin' the math
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) magnetic field in EV car?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power of DC Ya goin'?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: PLEASE FIX YOUR EMAIL CLIENTS!
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: I'll be in Germany in June, Bill Dube'
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 21 DC motors (bulk) on Ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: I'll be in Germany in June, Bill Dube'
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: PLEASE FIX YOUR EMAIL CLIENTS!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Anderson Connector Amp/V Capacity?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Motor equations
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: FS: never used PFC20 with buck enhancement
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Jinxed! ( Now - Belktronix) LINK
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: PLEASE FIX YOUR EMAIL CLIENTS!
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jinxed! ( Now - Belktronix) LINK
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Powering a power steering pump
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: With all this talk about NiMH .... Is it still legal to build sell 120
V / 10 A NiMH Module
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Doin' the math
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: ExxonMobil's New Generation of Lithium-Ion Battery Separators
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Anderson Connector Amp/V Capacity?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Motor equations
by Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Panasonic web site indicates the NiMH batteries have both a timed
life of about 2 years and a cycle life of about 500 cycles. I would be
careful NiMH cells on e-bay unless the date of manufacture is well
documented........
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:01 PM
To: ev
Subject: More on NiMH
Now on e-bay ...
200 Pcs D Size 14000mAh NiMH Rechargeable Batteries Item number:
110110553501
$1000 for 200 pcs of 14 AH
Basically, $3700 for 735 cells.
105 * 7 = 735
120 V (actually a little higher, but the estra 5 per string are for
correct buffer with AGM), 98 AH.
So, it can be done, and that is less than the equivilent $ for Optimas.
My car id 220 Wh / mile, so that would be a real world
53 mile range capable for 1000 charge / recharge cycles. Thets at least
40 - 50k miles on the pack .... Makes you think. Now how much would
that cost in Optimas ...
Steve
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<
Now on e-bay ...
200 Pcs D Size 14000mAh NiMH Rechargeable Batteries
Item number: 110110553501
$1000 for 200 pcs of 14 AH
Basically, $3700 for 735 cells.
105 * 7 = 735
120 V (actually a little higher, but the estra 5 per
string are for correct buffer with AGM), 98 AH.
So, it can be done, and that is less than the
equivilent $ for Optimas.
My car id 220 Wh / mile, so that would be a real world
53 mile range capable for 1000 charge / recharge
cycles. Thets at least 40 - 50k miles on the pack
.... Makes you think. Now how much would that cost
in Optimas ...
Steve
>>>>
What would you impliment to keep these 7 strings balanced? Is the staed 100
cycles at high discharge rates, and how high? Each cell needs to be monitored,
and that's going to cost a lot, too. This is the main on-going issue with using
NiMH in anything beyond a single string.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, much better price. But there is no such thing as a 20hr rate on
lithium-ion.
still 111lbs each. That site has a chart on it and 1 hr rate would be at
about 110A so 110A*12V(average voltage) the other chart says 101ah at 1
hr rate
ok 110Ah*24*12 = 32Kwh 2600 lbs. but you can only use 80% of that
so....25Kwh usefull. according to their cycle life chart that is 550
Cycles, but that is misleading, it assumes you are useing the 20hr rate
and that is 10-15Amps, woohoo.
Within the additional losses due to internal resistance, lithium-ion
give almost the same amount of kwh at the 20hr or the 1hr rate and
don't suffer as dramatically a loss of cycle life with those more EV
like discharge rates.
Lithium Polymer cells with the hexoflorine electrolyte have that 5%/year
degradation, Newer carbon coated nano partical li-ion cells have reduced
the effect greatly, but we actually have to wait a few years to know if
the lab data matches the real world.
I think even 5%, a 3 or 4 year old stat, is a lot less than lead-acid.
Now there are 25 year deepcycle lead acid batteries, Tubular plates with
sumps. But they weight even more.
Since the weight effects the effective capacity, and the difference is
off by a factor or 2, I don't think we can simplify it any more.
I think this year we will see the lines cross. and a 25Kwh pack is that
point.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As to whether anyone has measure it, i don't know, but It seems to me it
can't be much.
Magnetic circuits are like electric circuits, They do their work in a
closed circuit. Anything emmited is wasteful and and needs a place to
go. You would probably get a larger magnetic field from the battery
cables if they were run apart from each other.
But this a good question to get answered definitively before people
start asking. I met people years ago that wouldn't eat food cooked in a
microwave because of the residual radiation being bad for their health.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Power of DC? Show of hands! Anybody ELSE going? Time is ticking down
> towards THE day.I know alota guyz will be going. Just curious.
>
> Seeya There?
>
I working my butt off to get there. I should have the car legally on the road
next week. She's all
set for towing. I still have work to do on the car and look forward to any
advice you guys can
offer. I might even give it a run on the track. Anyone bringing parts to swap?
Does anyone have recommendations for places to stay down there? Does the
dragstrip offer camping?
Is there a planned gathering Friday night?
Dave Cover
Cell # 860-965-5025
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to suggest at least considering that EVDL move to a more
conventional format. I've not seen a list with this sort of restriction
in many years.
We could have an online forum (much more efficient and effective IMHO)
or just use a Yahoogroup.
Danny
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
Folks, thanks, but it's not really necessary (or desirable) to post items like this.
I'm taking care of the situation off-list. Every day I send private email to those
whose email systems need to be reconfigured for the EVDL.
We're seeing more html email because we have lots of new members. That's a
good thing, no?
Even if I never left the house, I could tell when gasoline prices were up by the
number of new EVDL subscribers. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill,
I am envious, I wish I was in your position to visit Germany
and visit with EV people there. I hope you are able to
connect with them, and have the connectivity to let the EV List
know of the EV fun you had, and perhaps some images.
Looking at what EVs are in Germany on
http://austinev.org/evalbum/geo
I see:
Germany
Baden-Wuertemberg1
Bavaria4
Hessen2
North Rhine-Westphalia25
Several of those EVs listed (above)
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo/North%20Rhine-Westphalia
are in Aachen (somewhat near Köln)
Several of those seem to be associated with
http://elektromobilfahrer.de/
Verein der Elektromobilfreunde in der Region Aachen
(babelfish translation:
Association of the electrical mobile friends in the region Aachen)
http://elektromobilfahrer.de/html/body_v_e_r_a__english.html
fyi
The 7th International AECV (All Electric Combat Vehicle)
Conference is to be held at Stockholm in Sweden from 11th 13th
June 2007 http://aecv2007.com
Let us know how it goes :-)
-[Posted to the EV List by Bill Dube' [EMAIL PROTECTED] of
http://killacycle.com ]
European EV Listers,
I'm going to be in Jülich, Germany (near
Köln) for the first three weeks of June doing an
NO3 and N2O5 instrument intercomparision study at
the SAPHIR facility
http://www.fz-juelich.de/icg/icg-2/saphir . (This
is for my "day job" that helps to support the KillaCycle.)
I may have an evening or two free or
perhaps a day on the weekend. I am also planning
to tour southern Germany a bit for a couple of
weeks afterward. If you live in the region,
perhaps we could get together and chat about EVs.
Also, if it works within my schedule, I would not
mind giving a talk or presentation to your local EV group (in
English.)
beste Grüße,
Bill Dube'
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Patrick,
I took possession of my converted 1985 S-10 Blazer in 1992 from
Solar Electric (now defunct). At that time it was a 120VDC system
design running on 20 T125's, a 400 Curtis (1221B) controller,
and charged on-board with a huge and heavy 90lb Bycan transformer
type charger.
My DC EV conversion is a low-tech design when compared to a RAV4
EV or newer AC design. All cables and wires in my EV are not
shielded.
At that time I worked at the Hewlett-Packard site in Sunnyvale,
CA. Magnetic field radiation (I will shorten that to EMI) was
routinely measured and checked by a hp site's safety and health
person.
It was the early 90's when the media was ga-ga with Electric
car news articles/pieces, talking about anything and everything
that is wrong with EVs (why the CARB mandate won't work). The
public I talked to also parroted these same concerns. Basically
a lot of 'what if' chatter by uninformed people who were trying
to talk themselves out of any change.
Though the automakers had talked about producing production EVs
that the public could buy, the only EVs available to the public
at that time were EVs converted by EV conversion businesses or
by individuals.
Back in the 90's any EV conversion of my size and weight (a
smaller 5000 lb SUV) was unthinkable (Mike Brown of Electro-
Automotive told me in one of his classes that it was a bad idea -
too heavy and inefficient). Most EVs of that day were VW Rabbit
sedan size and weight with a 96V system design.
But I am a big guy and needed a big EV, so I had a big EV
conversion made anyway. I figured my inefficient EV would be a
good test case for most EMI tests both when driving and when
charging (if my EV passed, most other EVs would too).
I sweet-talked my hp site's safety guy into using his EMI
measurement tools to check out my EV. He normally uses them to
check for EMI radiations from power lines, breaker boxes, air-
conditioning pump motors, break-area appliances (i.e.: those
'new-fangled' microwave ovens, etc.).
First he measured the microwave in the break area. He was pretty
careful to measure all edges of the door seals while it cooked.
The microwave's EMI was below acceptable emissions for his safety
regulations. Then we went out to measure my EV.
With my EV off and unplugged from the 110VAC outlet he got nothing.
I had opened the hood, both doors and the rear hatch so he could
poke around and measure what he wanted.
I turned the ignition switch on without any accelerator. As usual
the brake vacuum pump turned on for a short while, but he say all
was good. So far so good, but driving my EV around would draw
much more power so I expected that to be the true test.
I buttoned up the EV and we took off to drive around with him
taking readings. As I backed out of my hp EV parking spot, he
noticed he got the highest readings right at the center drive-
shaft hump near the floor gear shift. I suppose that is nearest
to the motor and where the 00 gage power cables were run to the
rear pack. When I drew current, he got a reading. Driving at
parking lot speeds he said the EMI readings were still low.
I took him out on the street and floored my EV to maximum current.
He said the readings were definitely higher, but still lower than
the microwave at work.
We came back, parked in the hp EV parking spot, plugged in, and
turned the charger on. He got an EMI reading from the Bycan
transformer charger. He said the readings were still very low
and none of the EMI readings he had recorded were of any concern.
I think it is nice to know that my EV's EMI is lower than the
leakage from a microwave oven. This test also put to rest any
unspoken concerns the safety guy might have had about those
new-fangled 'electric car things'.
...
During those times there were still those that did not like
anything new. Once at a local Church's Health Fair where I had
been asked to display and talk about my EV, an 'everything natural'
nutty hippy-dippy dressed woman asked me to move away from my EV
so she could ask me her EV questions.
I had told her the EV was off, but she still wanted to stay away
from 'that thing'. Too bad she had no idea that every time she
walked by a wall with electrical wiring she is being exposed to
EMI. I wasn't going to spoil 'her world' by telling her.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends on where they are located.
Just for fun I checked the shipping, for me (California)
is was close to $700, so the total price would have been
almost tripled at $1100. Not much if there are useful
motors in the pile, but not pocketmoney either.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 3:42 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 21 DC motors (bulk) on Ebay
Too late but some one seems to have gotten a deal-$390 plus shipping.
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 160112447624
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile.
Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I happened to be on business trip in Vienna (Austria),
I noticed that there was a "SolarStammTisch", a monthly
meeting of people interested in renewable energy, many
with a PV Solar installation on their roofs, but with
EV insterests as well, in fact one of their members went
on to participate in an electric rally, but it was fun to
visit them in a back room of a restaurant in Vienna and
talk about our mutual interests.
I noticed that also in Nordrhein-Westfalen is the city of
Schwerte, which apparently has something they also call a
SolarStammTisch, though I am not sure if they still have
a regular meeting or that it now is just a bunch of solar
installs displayed on the internet:
http://www.solarstammtisch-schwerte.de/
They do ask that you contact them beforehand if you'd like
to visit their meeting (Treffen), see the two email addresses
at the end of the second paragraph:
http://www.solarstammtisch-schwerte.de/uber_uns/uber_uns.html
Incidently there are two persons with the name Brueggemann
(written Brüggemann, but unreadable on some non-PC computers)
on the list of people with Solar installations:
http://www.solarstammtisch-schwerte.de/Ubersicht_Kontakt/ubersicht_kontakt.h
tml
Slightly further north in Nordrhein-Westfalen is Gelsenkirchen
also having a regular SolarStammTisch according to the web:
http://www.solarstadt-gelsenkirchen.de/Projekte/Kommunale_Aktivitaeten/Solar
stammtisch/default.asp
Slightly further to the south is Giesenheim in Hessen, along
the Rhein river and is known for its wine, but also as Solar
city according to its SolarStammTisch:
http://www.sun-consult.de/general_files/SC_AG21_Solarstammtisch.html
Very close to the border of my home country is the municipality
of Nettetal: http://www.gruene-nettetal.de/index.php?id=2051
which still lies in Nordrhein-Westfalen
Maybe the closest to Cologne (Köln) is the city of Dormagen
along Freeway 57 as well as the railway towards Duesseldorf.
They meet in the "Ratskeller" in the Kölner Straße 80.
(House numbers come after the street name in Europe)
http://www.dormagen.de/kommunen/dormagen/presse.nsf/w_suche/6781DD494A93CC85
C125728B003E4AA3
I did not find much gatherings based on the search term
"Elektroauto". Have fun making friends there!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of bruce parmenter
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:33 PM
To: evlist
Subject: Re: I'll be in Germany in June, Bill Dube'
Hi Bill,
I am envious, I wish I was in your position to visit Germany and visit with
EV people there. I hope you are able to connect with them, and have the
connectivity to let the EV List know of the EV fun you had, and perhaps some
images.
Looking at what EVs are in Germany on
http://austinev.org/evalbum/geo
I see:
Germany
Baden-Wuertemberg1
Bavaria4
Hessen2
North Rhine-Westphalia25
Several of those EVs listed (above)
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo/North%20Rhine-Westphalia
are in Aachen (somewhat near Köln)
Several of those seem to be associated with http://elektromobilfahrer.de/
Verein der Elektromobilfreunde in der Region Aachen (babelfish translation:
Association of the electrical mobile friends in the region Aachen)
http://elektromobilfahrer.de/html/body_v_e_r_a__english.html
fyi
The 7th International AECV (All Electric Combat Vehicle) Conference is to be
held at Stockholm in Sweden from 11th - 13th June 2007 http://aecv2007.com
Let us know how it goes :-)
-[Posted to the EV List by Bill Dube' [EMAIL PROTECTED] of
http://killacycle.com ] European EV Listers,
I'm going to be in Jülich, Germany (near
Köln) for the first three weeks of June doing an
NO3 and N2O5 instrument intercomparision study at the SAPHIR facility
http://www.fz-juelich.de/icg/icg-2/saphir . (This is for my "day job" that
helps to support the KillaCycle.)
I may have an evening or two free or
perhaps a day on the weekend. I am also planning to tour southern Germany a
bit for a couple of weeks afterward. If you live in the region, perhaps we
could get together and chat about EVs.
Also, if it works within my schedule, I would not mind giving a talk or
presentation to your local EV group (in
English.)
beste Grüße,
Bill Dube'
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Every couple months someone suggets moving the EVDL to some other format.
Usually they want someone ELSE to do all the work. Occasionally someone
actually does the work and sets up a new forum, invariably they fail.
But hey, knock yourself out. Go ahead and setup a forum that meets your
liking.
> I'd like to suggest at least considering that EVDL move to a more
> conventional format. I've not seen a list with this sort of restriction
> in many years.
> We could have an online forum (much more efficient and effective IMHO)
> or just use a Yahoogroup.
>
> Danny
>
> David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
>
>>Folks, thanks, but it's not really necessary (or desirable) to post items
>> like this.
>>I'm taking care of the situation off-list. Every day I send private
>> email to those
>>whose email systems need to be reconfigured for the EVDL.
>>
>>We're seeing more html email because we have lots of new members. That's
>> a
>>good thing, no?
>>
>>Even if I never left the house, I could tell when gasoline prices were up
>> by the
>>number of new EVDL subscribers. ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, you are almost never drawing 1000 Amp from the batteries
and if you do occasionally, then certainly not for long.
Think about it - depending on your pack voltage - you would
be applying somewhere in the area of 200 to 300 hp and in
your small Yaris, how long does that take you to reach speed limit?
Useful part of the Z1k is allowing 1000 motor Amps, when a
motor is low speed this translates into a decent startup
torque at low voltage, so low battery amps due to the hi-low
voltage conversion in the controller.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Dutko
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 3:36 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Anderson Connector Amp/V Capacity?
I am looking for a manual pack disconnect and have seen some use the
Anderson connectors but they only go to 350A continuous, except for the
SBE700 which is hard to find and most likely very expensive. So how are
people using the 350A connector when using the full power of a Zilla 1K/
Warp with and a large pack voltage. Is this due to the short term
high-current demand? I would like to do this to disconnect sections of the
pack or a packaged box for servicing. Any suggestions or experience for high
demand but not racing use.
Thanks
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not exactly, unless they are drag racing.
But even when you are using less than full throttle. the throttle
effectively sets the voltage somewhere below pack voltage. The controller
STILL goes into full current until it comes out of current limit at that
voltage.
Starting from a stop with only a little throttle might result in the
controller coming out of current limit in less than a second, but it does
/start/ in current limit.
Hmm, well perhaps some of the fancy micro processor controllers run at
something less than full current limit with low throttle, but they are
still running up to some set current limit.
>> ...in practice, we tend to limit current and let volts rise
>> with RPM until we can't achieve the chosen current? So we're
>> really operating in a straight up and down line at constant
>> torque and increasing HP beneath our chosen current point
>> until we hit the point where we're back EMF limited and the
>> current drops with further RPM increase?
>
> Is this really the case -- do folks really run a light switch (FLOORED
> or not)? If that's the case, then I definitely understand why Jerry
> likes his contactor controllers so much!
>
> Randii
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Same deal? Do you mean $1800 for 10 regs? Seems a little steep.
> I got the PFC20 when I thought dealing with Pennsylvania motor vehicle
> code was going to be simpler; turned into a pain.
>
> So I have a new unused never installed buck-enhanced PFC20 for $1800; Let
> me know if you're interested.
>
> I also have 10 Mk2 (maybe Mk2b, I can check) regs, same deal.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Went to his webpage and found:
You can email him, see their "email" link:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can even contact him from the NetGain website:
http://www.go-ev.com/contacts/belk.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:18 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Jinxed! ( Now - Belktronix) LINK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Jinxed! ( Now - Belktronix) LINK
> http://www.belktronix.com/
>
>
> On May 6, 2007, at 9:14 AM, Bob Rice wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: FW: Jinxed! ( Now - Belktronix)
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Will somebody post a clickable link to Belktronix?Fone no. Where
> > IS he?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Hi EVerybody;
Went there, tantalizing pix and stuff and while looking I'm going @#$%^
under my breath as for LINKS, Phone No's , Specs, prices, like EVerybody
ELSES E hardware websites. Like WHERE is he?Like Electro Craft a nebulous
sort of thing. I musta overlooked SOMETHING?
Seeya
Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clean, pure text -is- the conventional format for lists. It keeps the
size of emails way, way down and keeps spammy blinking images from
showing up in my Inbox :) It also prevent people from putting in
signatures that have animated gifs. I've run mailing list servers for
years, and one thing I always did was restrict to plain text.
Mainly though, it keeps the total traffic down by a LOT. I wouldn't
want the list to change it's format. I like it this way!
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In an email exchange, he said he was in California, 30 miles north of Chico.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats a GREAT story, and I am going to quote you in future. "As
measured by an HP safety tester, generally EVs emit less EMI than
microwave ovens, even while at maximum current and acceleration."
:-)
Of course, if you ran the positive cable from the pack on the other
side of the car from the negative cable, it might be worse. But
hopefully nobody does that ;)
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking, a scooter motor might have enough torque to drive a
power steering pump. I was looking at this one on ebay:
250113053349
It is only 300 watt but it has an integrated speed controller.
What do you think?
Jody
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/10/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As far as I know, the patent involes building the cells, not how you use
them. Selling the finished product my be an issue, or not.
But even if it is, it only matters if they go after you.
Actually, resale for a novel use is covered under patent law. If you
buy something from a manufacturer, then make it into a useful thing
for a specific purpose, they cannot do anything except refuse to
service you as a customer.
The restriction about EV batteries was something that was negotiated
in the Cobasys settlement with Panasonic and Toyota.. it doesn't have
the force of law except that they contractually agreed to it.
But you didn't ;) So you can do whatever you like with the NiMH cells
that you get your hands on.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it is worrysome, why not twist the positive and negative cables
together? You could probably get 4 or 5 twists in the length of the
run. As long as the insulation is heavy enough you wouldn't have
problems with the two shorting.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Timothy Balcer
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:29
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car?
Thats a GREAT story, and I am going to quote you in future. "As measured
by an HP safety tester, generally EVs emit less EMI than microwave
ovens, even while at maximum current and acceleration."
:-)
Of course, if you ran the positive cable from the pack on the other side
of the car from the negative cable, it might be worse. But hopefully
nobody does that ;)
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/10/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wow, much better price. But there is no such thing as a 20hr rate on
lithium-ion.
Hmm.. you're right there. Hmm. Ok I'll get my calculator out again :)
still 111lbs each. That site has a chart on it and 1 hr rate would be at
about 110A so 110A*12V(average voltage) the other chart says 101ah at 1
hr rate
ok 110Ah*24*12 = 32Kwh 2600 lbs. but you can only use 80% of that
so....25Kwh usefull. according to their cycle life chart that is 550
Cycles, but that is misleading, it assumes you are useing the 20hr rate
and that is 10-15Amps, woohoo.
Within the additional losses due to internal resistance, lithium-ion
give almost the same amount of kwh at the 20hr or the 1hr rate and
don't suffer as dramatically a loss of cycle life with those more EV
like discharge rates.
Ok lets see.
TS LFP series
===========
We still want long life, as long as possible, so lets assume we are
going to oversize by 30% to get the good, 70% DOD 3000 cycle life
number. Lets aim for 25kWh, as mentioned above.
We'll stick with that big lead pack for comparison sake. I agree that
it will give 25kWh at the 1hr rate. We'll also agree it costs $5200
and lives for 500 cycles.
So, to get 36kWh ( 25 / 0.7) total battery cap in Lithium we would
need only 70 of these 160AH batteries. So that would be $22,400. Now
if the batteries actually last 3000 cycles, then we're talking 6 fold
betterment in just longevity.. 22,400/6 = 3733 so immediately I can
see that they are a better value.
Let me use Uve's calculator and figure out what happens with the
weight reduction...
Hm. That gives about 20 extra miles on level ground because of the
weight savings.
Well it sure looks nice, and even at 2000 cycles it is about equal
value. I think I'm starting to see the economic problems though. that
comes out to about $4000 per year in battery costs if you have a long
commute, with either chemistry.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You don't need to twist cables together to avoid EMI, just run them
side by side and that's enough.
Twisted pairs are used to prevent RF and other interference from
affecting copper lines used for data and other sensitive applications.
In our case the wires are just an electrical carrier, so no need to do
that.
--T
On 5/11/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If it is worrysome, why not twist the positive and negative cables
together? You could probably get 4 or 5 twists in the length of the
run. As long as the insulation is heavy enough you wouldn't have
problems with the two shorting.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Timothy Balcer
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:29
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car?
Thats a GREAT story, and I am going to quote you in future. "As measured
by an HP safety tester, generally EVs emit less EMI than microwave
ovens, even while at maximum current and acceleration."
:-)
Of course, if you ran the positive cable from the pack on the other side
of the car from the negative cable, it might be worse. But hopefully
nobody does that ;)
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/10/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I never would have guessed they had any involvement
> in batteries... a petroleum link in the batteries?
Exxon is a huge multinational aggregate. It might be easier to list the
things in which they are NOT involved than those in which they ARE
involved. Plastic batteries, plastic grid plates, plastic valves,
plastic caps... all these things come from oil in some form or another.
Unless we build our EVs out of personally-harvested mud, straw, and spit
(I know some of you DRIVE Sparrows, but do they nest?), I imagine they
will have oil-related plastic, fabric, rubber, and etc. I'm not planning
on running knob-and-tube conductors in my EV, so I'm planning to be
quietly appreciative of the plastic insulation on the cables. :p
It is easy to crucify oil, Big Oil, and the automakers, but pretty hard
to live a life entirely without oil in some form or another.
For now... ;) There are a lot of chemists working on using vegetable
oils as the base for those sorts of plastics, and doing anaerobic
generation, etc etc, blah blah. So hopefully we'll be able to kick it
entirely for renewable durables.. but thats a heck of a lot longer
down the road than the fuel switch!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The light bulb just went on. Since the current coming from the
batteries is DC and constant, then twisting them wouldn't be required.
In my mind I was thinking that it was pulsed so it is a form of AC so
they would need to be twisted. The pulsed DC is actually from the
controller to the motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Timothy Balcer
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 9:01
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car?
You don't need to twist cables together to avoid EMI, just run them side
by side and that's enough.
Twisted pairs are used to prevent RF and other interference from
affecting copper lines used for data and other sensitive applications.
In our case the wires are just an electrical carrier, so no need to do
that.
--T
On 5/11/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If it is worrysome, why not twist the positive and negative cables
> together? You could probably get 4 or 5 twists in the length of the
> run. As long as the insulation is heavy enough you wouldn't have
> problems with the two shorting.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Timothy Balcer
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:29
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car?
>
> Thats a GREAT story, and I am going to quote you in future. "As
> measured by an HP safety tester, generally EVs emit less EMI than
> microwave ovens, even while at maximum current and acceleration."
>
> :-)
>
> Of course, if you ran the positive cable from the pack on the other
> side of the car from the negative cable, it might be worse. But
> hopefully nobody does that ;)
>
> --T
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
The SB-350 should be fine. I have used hundreds of
them where they routinely see 700 plus amps for short
periods. Just get a good conection from lug to cable
and use large enough cable. It is likely you would
drain your battery pack before overheating the
connector.
Jeff
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, you are almost never drawing 1000 Amp from the
> batteries
> and if you do occasionally, then certainly not for
> long.
> Think about it - depending on your pack voltage -
> you would
> be applying somewhere in the area of 200 to 300 hp
> and in
> your small Yaris, how long does that take you to
> reach speed limit?
>
> Useful part of the Z1k is allowing 1000 motor Amps,
> when a
> motor is low speed this translates into a decent
> startup
> torque at low voltage, so low battery amps due to
> the hi-low
> voltage conversion in the controller.
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
>
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Dutko
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 3:36 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Anderson Connector Amp/V Capacity?
>
> I am looking for a manual pack disconnect and have
> seen some use the
> Anderson connectors but they only go to 350A
> continuous, except for the
> SBE700 which is hard to find and most likely very
> expensive. So how are
> people using the 350A connector when using the full
> power of a Zilla 1K/
> Warp with and a large pack voltage. Is this due to
> the short term
> high-current demand? I would like to do this to
> disconnect sections of the
> pack or a packaged box for servicing. Any
> suggestions or experience for high
> demand but not racing use.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage?
GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-05-10 at 08:08 -0700, Jeff Major wrote:
> Steve,
> I have looked at the two curves for the FB1-4001 motor
> from the link you provided. C-59 and XC-59. There is
> a considerable difference between the two on the
> torque per amp and 75 volt speed curve.
OK, I got ahold of a tech guy at ADC and he told me:
1) The C-59 chart is the correct chart for the FB1-4001A that is sold by
EVParts. So that minor mystery is resolved. Just so people know, that
gives you about 400 more RPM at 100 lb-ft of torque and about 500 more
RPM at 30 lb-ft of torque (at 120v). Unfortunately, there's no curve on
the chart for 144 volts like there is on the other chart.
2) He couldn't find the XC-59 chart (even in his archives), nor could he
say what it might have represented.
As I mentioned in a previous post, Uwe's calculator seems to be set up
for the XC-59 (wrong) chart. If I can figure out some parameters that
make for a better match to the C-59 (correct) chart, I'll post them.
--Steve
--- End Message ---
