EV Digest 6762
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Plasma Podcast May 15th & other News
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: GRM $2007 Challenge - Brainstorming
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Doin' the math
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: PFC-20
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lithium for $0.19 / Watt Hour Is this for real? No oops.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV digest 6760
by Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Patrick Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Patrick Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell BOYCOTT?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Lithium for $0.19 / Watt Hour Is this for real? No oops.
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: GRM $2007 Challenge - Brainstorming
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell BOYCOTT?
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Plasma Podcast May 15th & other News
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Patrick Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: PFC-20
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Plasma Podcast May 15th & other News
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Plasma Podcast May 15th & other News
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Whew, have the PR floodgates been opened! The Car and Driver magazine
exposure has really raised EV awareness.
A podcast interview between Vinny of 'Vinny's Garage' and I, will run on
alltalkradio.net <http://alltalkradio.net> on Tuesday 5 pm Pacific.
Also, it will be on Vinny's website at www.vinnysgarage.com
<http://www.vinnysgarage.com>. Since the May issue debuted, I've had
what seems to be a constant flow of inquiries from the media and other
interested parties:
(1) An LA area production company has proposed a 10 week television
show that they want Plasma Boy, Otmar, and Tim Brehm to be part of. It
includes high performance electric conversions of some pretty exotic
machinery. I'll give more details if this actually works into something
real...
(2) The Wall Street Journal has contacted me and we've had our first
interview. The story is still not yet solidified, but if it does work
out, they'll be out west to cover electric drag racing in the next month
or so.
(3) An Arizona based television production crew is coming to Portland
this weekend to interview me as part of a special about the Tango and
the state of electric cars. This will be a prime time news special for
national syndication.
(4) Interview for 'Vinny's Garage' completed yesterday, Thursday.
(5) A well known hi pro aircraft builder is in talks with me about a
prototype composite bodied hi pro lithium -AC electric sports car.
The Plasma Boy Racing web page is receiving on average, 11,059 hits a
day. The stats page shows hits coming in from countless gasser type web
sites, such as Cobra sites, Mustang sites, Import tuner sites, drag
racing sites...the list goes on. Suffice it to say, electric performance
is being noticed! I never hurts to have Car and Driver magazine
describing an electric car's acceleration as 'ferocious' (from C & D's
web version photo slide show).
For those who haven't visited the Plasma Boy Racing site for a while,
you might want to check out the 2007 version of White Zombie under
'White Zombie History'. The opening photo capture in March by Carol
Brown is an excellent launch picture. You can clearly see the G Force
drag radials balling-up as they emboss their sticky tread pattern into
the asphalt. You can also see Tim tightly clenching the steering wheel,
and you can see the passenger cam, too. The left front tire is about 3
inches off the ground while the right one is just lofting the pavement
under the high torque-twist of the Siamese 8, this, even after we
redesigned things and moved more battery weight forward to just behind
the front seat backs to reduce the wheel-standing effect.
One last tantalizing bit. I've given birth to a new name...
'Tri-Zilla'! It's green, and about the size of three Z1Ks stacked
end-to-end.
#1 is under the aluminum hood of a Honda Insight and is being tested on
the streets of Oregon as I write this. A beta version will be in my
hands soon that will power-up a 'special' AC motor for a new long range
performance project car I've got planned. Only those with the secret Bat
Cave number are allowed to know more :-)
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10 May 2007 at 3:20, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> ??? do you really expect to be competitive in a drag race and an autocross
> using old starting batteries???
Maybe not >old< ones. But Back In The Day (tm), say 10-15 years ago, I
remember EV racers using SLI batteries quite frequently.
There are good reasons for this. SLI batteries are designed for relatively
high specific power, and are available in lots of different sizes. Granted,
you have to replace them every few races, but they're also a commodity item
and relatively cheap.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10 May 2007 at 9:51, Tim Humphrey wrote:
> Out to 150,000 miles or more "my" estimated cost goes; from least to most....
> (fixed width font)
>
> Battery $ per mile
>
> GC's .08
> Lithium .09
> NiMH .10
> Orbital .11
> NiCad .21
> Optima .27
I did this calculation many years ago, so the numbers differ now since
materials costs have risen and the dollar has fallen relative to other
currencies. My predictions reflect just about perfect maintenance, and use
of each battery within its own specifications and limits, so note well that
in a given application not all of the batteries listed below would be
appropriate. (The "mule" for this situation was my own Solectria Force, and
all the batteries listed except the golf car batteries [USBMC 2200] would
have been appropriate.)
FYI, a very good and valid way of designing an EV is to begin by deciding
what battery suits your needs, then designing the rest of the EV around the
battery.
All that said, here are my figures :
USBMC US2200 - 2 cents per mile
Saft STM5-100MR - 4 cents per mile
Trojan 27TMH - 8 cents per mile
Optima G31 - 14 cents per mile
East Penn 8G27 - 20 cents per mile
Most of my costs are a fraction of Tim's. I'm sure that reflects both
different calculation metods and different costs. However, it's interesting
that many of the relationships among types are similar.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 May 2007 at 23:07, Joe Smalley wrote:
> A short piece of hose cut to fit between the pot and the panel should do it.
I don't own a Manzanita PFC, but it seems to me that if a piece of hose
would work, a grommet should work even better. Just drill the hole in the
panel a bit larger. Yes? No?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But it does pose an interesting question, Why is the capacity 6 or 7
times a rechargable lithium cell? Is there that much room for improvement?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I said "Bibliography" of the book. not the book itself. The book quotes
many studies and the full reference of those studies are in the back of
the book: bibliography. You can look them up in any University library.
PR
> As I said "Peer Reviewed" "Scientific Studies". This book you site is
> _not_ peer reviewed and is _not_ a scientific study.
>
> You must show, via a carefully run study on lots of randomly selected
> people, that folks exposed to DC magnetic fields have adverse health
> effects markedly different than those that are not exposed to DC
> magnetic fields. (or those exposed to a different amount of DC
> magnetic fields.)
>
> Here is a paper showing a summary of the peer-reviewed (scientific)
> literature on the health effects of magnetic fields of all frequencies:
> http://www.bccdc.org/content.php?item=57
>
> Guess what, DC fields are harmless.
>
> There has been some genuine scientific studies on bone
> healing acceleration with DC fields, but it is possible that the
> forces on the magnets, rather than the field in the bone, aided
> healing. Causality was not well controlled. Regardless, it was a
> positive health effect rather than a negative one.
>
>
> At 05:29 PM 5/11/2007, you wrote:
>
>> > The needle on the BS meter has now spun around three times and has
>> > flown off. :-)
>> >
>> > You are concerned about 100 milliGauss. I have personally
>> > worked in DC fields as high as 150,000,000 milliGauss. If 100
>> > milliGuass DC was at all harmful, I would be dead 1,500,000 times
>> over!
>> >
>> > The typical MRI scan is 15,000 Gauss. (15,000,000 milliGauss)
>> >
>> > The Earth's field is about 300 milliGauss. I guess we all will die
>> > from that very quickly as it is 3 times the amount you are concerned
>> > about.
>> >
>> > Again, show me the peer-reviewed scientific studies that show that DC
>> > fields are harmful. There are none because DC fields are not harmful.
>>
>>You sure you want to read them? They are pretty boring ;)
>>
>>To get plenty of references to them and maybe not falling asleep while
>>reading about the subject get a copy of "Cross Currents" by Dr Robert O
>>Becker. In the bibliography you will have all the references you want.
>>
>>And I never mentioned DC fields. Obviously the motors produce varying
>>fields no matter if they are AC or DC current fed. Both work of varying
>>magnetic fields otherwhise the motor would stand still.
>>
>>No one said 100 mGauss will kill you just like smoking one cigarette will
>>not or sniffing VOCs once in while a wont. One the other hand, All of
>> them
>>are considered stressors or toxins.
>>
>>Please keep the discussion level headed. We are just asking resonable
>>questions.
>>
>>Patrick Robin
>> >
>> > Bill Dube'
>> >
>> > At 12:15 PM 5/11/2007, you wrote:
>> >>I think it is the frequency (megahertz) that counts which I guess
>> >>maybe in the case of AC is what it is pulsed at. With DC motors I
>> >>don't know, they must be creating an electromagnetic field at some
>> >>sort of frequency. Even though DC is what is says Direct Current the
>> >>controller is pulsing energy to it.
>> >>Some studies I believe have shown certain frequencies to be worse
>> >>than others.
>> >>Anyway all motors put out emf radiation.
>> >>I just did a test in the shop using a TriField Meter, I tested DC
>> >>hand power tools, AC hand power tools, a drill press and band saw,
>> >>and a 3-phase industrial grinder. All of them had electromagnetic
>> >>fields which varied between 4 and 8 feet before dropping completely
>> >>off. And were well over 100milligause up close. Using the variable
>> >>speed trigger vs. full on with the battery hand drill created a
>> >>higher field.
>> >>I think one of the theories is that we have evolved with the magnetic
>> >>and frequency field of the earth and all the electrical things we
>> >>have created are running at different frequencies and so mess up our
>> >>internal electronics.
>> >>
>> >>>Don't worry about the Gauss meter reading when the BS meter is
>> pegged.
>> >>
>> >>Yes there is controversy over this and for example: Cell Phones,
>> >>Chemicals in food, Genetic Engineering, Global Warming, Pollution
>> >>from SUV's :), Aliens, Nuclear Power, Mac's vs. PC's... the list goes
>> >>on. They used to spray DDT on children to kill mosquitoes.(shrug)
>> >>
>> >>I am not claiming anything... (besides my tests I mentioned in the
>> >>shop :)
>> >>
>> >>Cheers,
>> >>Tehben
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>Patrick Robin
>>http://atelierrobin.net
>
--
Patrick Robin
http://atelierrobin.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes,
DC and varying fields do have eccefts on living organisms. Mainly in
situations where cells are multiplicating. But the problem is that it is
all a matter of dosage. There is a very fine line between normal cell
multiplication and abnormal one. Anything that affects cell
multiplication, be it drug molecules or EM fields can have both a good and
controlled effect or go overboard and cause uncontrolled multiplication.
The body works in a fine tuned way, a perfect balancing act.
Patrick Robin
> Dc feilds have all kinds of effects of the human body.
>
> Accelerating bone and tooth growth etc.
>
> Electric charged braces move teeth faster.
> Vertebrates cab even regrow lost limbs with artificiak dc fields applied
> to their stumps.
>
>
> On Fri, 11 May 2007 10:39 pm, Bill Dube wrote:
>> As I said "Peer Reviewed" "Scientific Studies". This book you site is
>> _not_ peer reviewed and is _not_ a scientific study.
>>
>> You must show, via a carefully run study on lots of randomly selected
>> people, that folks exposed to DC magnetic fields have adverse health
>> effects markedly different than those that are not exposed to DC
>> magnetic fields. (or those exposed to a different amount of DC magnetic
>> fields.)
>>
>> Here is a paper showing a summary of the peer-reviewed (scientific)
>> literature on the health effects of magnetic fields of all frequencies:
>> http://www.bccdc.org/content.php?item=57
>>
>> Guess what, DC fields are harmless.
>>
>> There has been some genuine scientific studies on bone healing
>> acceleration with DC fields, but it is possible that the forces on the
>> magnets, rather than the field in the bone, aided healing. Causality
>> was not well controlled. Regardless, it was a positive health effect
>> rather than a negative one.
>>
>>
>> At 05:29 PM 5/11/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>>> The needle on the BS meter has now spun around three times and has
>>>> flown off. :-)
>>>>
>>>> You are concerned about 100 milliGauss. I have personally
>>>> worked in DC fields as high as 150,000,000 milliGauss. If 100
>>>> milliGuass DC was at all harmful, I would be dead 1,500,000 times
>>>> over!
>>>>
>>>> The typical MRI scan is 15,000 Gauss. (15,000,000 milliGauss)
>>>>
>>>> The Earth's field is about 300 milliGauss. I guess we all will die
>>>> from that very quickly as it is 3 times the amount you are concerned
>>>> about.
>>>>
>>>> Again, show me the peer-reviewed scientific studies that show that DC
>>>> fields are harmful. There are none because DC fields are not harmful.
>>>
>>> You sure you want to read them? They are pretty boring ;)
>>>
>>> To get plenty of references to them and maybe not falling asleep while
>>> reading about the subject get a copy of "Cross Currents" by Dr Robert O
>>> Becker. In the bibliography you will have all the references you want.
>>>
>>> And I never mentioned DC fields. Obviously the motors produce varying
>>> fields no matter if they are AC or DC current fed. Both work of varying
>>> magnetic fields otherwhise the motor would stand still.
>>>
>>> No one said 100 mGauss will kill you just like smoking one cigarette
>>> will
>>> not or sniffing VOCs once in while a wont. One the other hand, All of
>>> them
>>> are considered stressors or toxins.
>>>
>>> Please keep the discussion level headed. We are just asking resonable
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> Patrick Robin
>>>>
>>>> Bill Dube'
>>>>
>>>> At 12:15 PM 5/11/2007, you wrote:
>>>>> I think it is the frequency (megahertz) that counts which I guess
>>>>> maybe in the case of AC is what it is pulsed at. With DC motors I
>>>>> don't know, they must be creating an electromagnetic field at some
>>>>> sort of frequency. Even though DC is what is says Direct Current the
>>>>> controller is pulsing energy to it.
>>>>> Some studies I believe have shown certain frequencies to be worse
>>>>> than others.
>>>>> Anyway all motors put out emf radiation.
>>>>> I just did a test in the shop using a TriField Meter, I tested DC
>>>>> hand power tools, AC hand power tools, a drill press and band saw,
>>>>> and a 3-phase industrial grinder. All of them had electromagnetic
>>>>> fields which varied between 4 and 8 feet before dropping completely
>>>>> off. And were well over 100milligause up close. Using the variable
>>>>> speed trigger vs. full on with the battery hand drill created a
>>>>> higher field.
>>>>> I think one of the theories is that we have evolved with the magnetic
>>>>> and frequency field of the earth and all the electrical things we
>>>>> have created are running at different frequencies and so mess up our
>>>>> internal electronics.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't worry about the Gauss meter reading when the BS meter is
>>>>>> pegged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes there is controversy over this and for example: Cell Phones,
>>>>> Chemicals in food, Genetic Engineering, Global Warming, Pollution
>>>>> from SUV's :), Aliens, Nuclear Power, Mac's vs. PC's... the list goes
>>>>> on. They used to spray DDT on children to kill mosquitoes.(shrug)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not claiming anything... (besides my tests I mentioned in the
>>>>> shop :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Tehben
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Patrick Robin
>>> http://atelierrobin.net
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
--
Patrick Robin
http://atelierrobin.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe this isn't that bad. It will be a road going EV? no?
Buy one, make it a plugin hybrid, and fire the fuel cell once a year. If
it gives me trouble, rip it out and turn it into a pure EV.
It is highly probably that it will have a battery pack anyway to help
the fuel cell with horrific voltage sag and to keep the fuel cell size
and thus cost, manageable.
The fuel cell is then replacing the ICE and a gen head, In this area it
can keep par with the ice on emission and effiency while being more
"optional" in it's use.
These intermediary steps may be just what the auto companies and indeed
joe sixpack need to cut the oil umbilical cord. Even if you make the
hydrogen off of petroleum,(NaturalGas) you have abstracted it away from
the individual making it easy to wean them. If the auto companies are
willing to sell an EV under the guise of a fuel cell vehicle so they can
maintain the illusion that everyone needs to be able to drive 240 miles,
fill in 3 min, and drive another 240 miles, Then I will support
that(with EVconversion tools in hand, just think of those gliders with
mass produced electric power steering, brake boosters and dc-dc converters!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the experimenters out there-
Some RC Glider folks have successfully used "non-rechargeable" lithium CR2
batteries. I haven't seen any stats as to how many cycles or capacity with
time, or if folks are still doing it, but for awhile, it was something a few
of us at least were doing. You had to monitor battery temp and voltage, and
in my case, the capacity didn't seem to be near what the first charge was.
-MT
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 9:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Lithium for $0.19 / Watt Hour Is this for real? No oops.
But it does pose an interesting question, Why is the capacity 6 or 7
times a rechargable lithium cell? Is there that much room for improvement?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't worry about beating the gas cars, we all know EVs can't be cost
competitive particularly at the bottom of the cost spectrum, but isn't
the point to surprise people and have them take notice?
Isn't that the point of the endless promotion of White Zombie when that
car is REALLY SLOW compared to a gas race car?
Frankly, I'd like to see a budget-based EV-only competition, and make it
real with wagers on who will win with a claim rule to keep it honest,
but I know it will not happen. Maybe do a PINKs episode on EV racers?
You know, lose the race, lose your ride. I'd put up a $2,000 car for
that deal if there was a claimer that anyone can buy your entry for
$2,000 to keep it an honest budget competition. But it ain't gonna
happen, always a lot of talkers, very rare are doers.
Jack Murray
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I meant to use *new* starting batteries, not used ones. New SLI batteries
are probably the cheapest bang-for-the-buck you can get.
Ah, well the original poster mentioned *used* SLI batteries.
So anyway, New batteries eat up 1/4 of your budget.
Actually, do you even think you could do it with BRAND NEW starting
batteries?
In 1968, the Autolite "Lead Wedge" set a record of 138.862 mph at
Bonneville.
It used a plain old GE series motor, and twenty Autolite SLI
lead-acid batteries.
Look how long it took John et al to get below 14 seconds using high power
Hawkers and 300+ volts. Even the white zombie can't match the leaders in
this race. Last years winner posted a 10.4 in the quarter.
Plus, unless you live in Oregon, you'd have to deduct the shipping
costs.
Are you sure they require shipping costs to be part of the price? That
would put anyone that wasn't local out of the running, because shipping
*any* car and team cross country would eat up that $2007 budget.
The rules say "transportation costs" but they are listed in the section
about building the car and buying parts, so I'm pretty sure they are just
talking about transporting the parts.
If you were really lucky and stumbled on some really sweet details,
you /might/ be able to build a car that managed last place in every
event.
Thanks for your encouragement. :-) Makes me almost want to try to do it.
Say... the guy that bought my old ComutaVan wants to sell it...
These guys are going wicked fast in cheap cars. Even expensive EVs would
have trouble competing. None of the current crop of EV door slammer drag
racers can match the best drag race times.
I drawing a blank here, who's the guy with the LiPol powered autocross
car? He might stand a chance in the autocross, but that car costs more
than 50 times the limit.
If you didn't bother trying to be competitive in the drag race or
autocross, you might be able to do well in the concorse event, but that is
worth very little in the over all scoring.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I imagine most people here would be familiar with the fundamental
problems with hydrogen as a fuel:
a) It must be produced (so it can only be thought of as an energy
storage medium), with every means of producing it being relatively
inefficient.
b) It is very difficult to store, requiring very high pressure tanks.
c) It will need a distribution network for public acceptance
(possibly a chicken-and-egg problem).
Point (a) in particular is quite incontrovertible. I'm sure the
automakers must be aware of these problems, though perhaps they hope
the public are not - I can only assume that their current interest in
developing HFC vehicles is green-washing. And it's a good diversion,
because they can claim they need so many years to develop the
technology.. while still selling dino-burners.
Here in Perth (Western Australia) our public transport network
actually has some HFC buses actively in operation. Not many of
course, because they're not so economical to run, but I imagine they
serve the purpose of making the state government *appear* to the
general public as if it's eco-conscious! Hopefully one day I can
convince them to try some BEV buses instead.
-Ian
On 13/05/2007, at 12:54 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
Maybe this isn't that bad. It will be a road going EV? no?
Buy one, make it a plugin hybrid, and fire the fuel cell once a
year. If
it gives me trouble, rip it out and turn it into a pure EV.
It is highly probably that it will have a battery pack anyway to help
the fuel cell with horrific voltage sag and to keep the fuel cell size
and thus cost, manageable.
The fuel cell is then replacing the ICE and a gen head, In this
area it
can keep par with the ice on emission and effiency while being more
"optional" in it's use.
These intermediary steps may be just what the auto companies and
indeed
joe sixpack need to cut the oil umbilical cord. Even if you make the
hydrogen off of petroleum,(NaturalGas) you have abstracted it away
from
the individual making it easy to wean them. If the auto companies are
willing to sell an EV under the guise of a fuel cell vehicle so
they can
maintain the illusion that everyone needs to be able to drive 240
miles,
fill in 3 min, and drive another 240 miles, Then I will support
that(with EVconversion tools in hand, just think of those gliders with
mass produced electric power steering, brake boosters and dc-dc
converters!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice to see Mr Wayland finally recognizing my position that AC power is
the way to build a performance car. Next shoe to drop will be his using
NiMH batteries.
Jack Murray
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
Whew, have the PR floodgates been opened! The Car and Driver magazine
exposure has really raised EV awareness.
A podcast interview between Vinny of 'Vinny's Garage' and I, will run on
alltalkradio.net <http://alltalkradio.net> on Tuesday 5 pm Pacific.
Also, it will be on Vinny's website at www.vinnysgarage.com
<http://www.vinnysgarage.com>. Since the May issue debuted, I've had
what seems to be a constant flow of inquiries from the media and other
interested parties:
(1) An LA area production company has proposed a 10 week television
show that they want Plasma Boy, Otmar, and Tim Brehm to be part of. It
includes high performance electric conversions of some pretty exotic
machinery. I'll give more details if this actually works into something
real...
(2) The Wall Street Journal has contacted me and we've had our first
interview. The story is still not yet solidified, but if it does work
out, they'll be out west to cover electric drag racing in the next month
or so.
(3) An Arizona based television production crew is coming to Portland
this weekend to interview me as part of a special about the Tango and
the state of electric cars. This will be a prime time news special for
national syndication.
(4) Interview for 'Vinny's Garage' completed yesterday, Thursday.
(5) A well known hi pro aircraft builder is in talks with me about a
prototype composite bodied hi pro lithium -AC electric sports car.
The Plasma Boy Racing web page is receiving on average, 11,059 hits a
day. The stats page shows hits coming in from countless gasser type web
sites, such as Cobra sites, Mustang sites, Import tuner sites, drag
racing sites...the list goes on. Suffice it to say, electric performance
is being noticed! I never hurts to have Car and Driver magazine
describing an electric car's acceleration as 'ferocious' (from C & D's
web version photo slide show).
For those who haven't visited the Plasma Boy Racing site for a while,
you might want to check out the 2007 version of White Zombie under
'White Zombie History'. The opening photo capture in March by Carol
Brown is an excellent launch picture. You can clearly see the G Force
drag radials balling-up as they emboss their sticky tread pattern into
the asphalt. You can also see Tim tightly clenching the steering wheel,
and you can see the passenger cam, too. The left front tire is about 3
inches off the ground while the right one is just lofting the pavement
under the high torque-twist of the Siamese 8, this, even after we
redesigned things and moved more battery weight forward to just behind
the front seat backs to reduce the wheel-standing effect.
One last tantalizing bit. I've given birth to a new name...
'Tri-Zilla'! It's green, and about the size of three Z1Ks stacked
end-to-end.
#1 is under the aluminum hood of a Honda Insight and is being tested on
the streets of Oregon as I write this. A beta version will be in my
hands soon that will power-up a 'special' AC motor for a new long range
performance project car I've got planned. Only those with the secret Bat
Cave number are allowed to know more :-)
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>> An EV motor is in a very thick, strong steel case. There are very
>>> few ventilation holes if it's air cooled, and none if it's liquid
>>> cooled. As a consequence, the motor itself has very little external
>>> magnetic field.
>
> From: Patrick Robin
>> Did you actually measure them. I consider them to be similar in
>> structure/material to industrial servo motors. Those motors are
>> completely enclosed in thick metal which doesn't do much to stop
>> the varying magnetic fields. Try measruing them and you will see.
>
> If you mean a PM servomotor, I would expect them to have an external DC
> field because of the large powerful magnets. Such motors will affect a
> compass, but it has to get fairly close. More than a couple feet away, the
> motor's field falls below that of the earth.
>
> If you mean an external AC field, the ones from the motor itself are
> really small. The connecting wires to the motor were causing 100 times the
> RFI of the motor itself. The only time the motor itself generated a lot of
> RFI is a) a brushed motor at high current, b) a motor operating at
> extremely high current, well in excess of its ratings so that the iron was
> saturating.
There is no reason the ones from the motor should be smaller than the ones
from the wires feeding the motor. The field is proportional to the current
in the wire. When you have a bundle of wires such as a transformer and
motor, you get a multiplication effect.
I am speaking as a person who designs electronic circuits for a living in
the field of motor control and other fields. I also have made many
measurements of such motors and can confirm from actual measurements that
real life motors do emit very large AC fields that are much larger than
the field from the wires feeding them. And they die off folling the square
root law just like the field from a single wire. No mistery there.
I do not want to discuss the existence of those fields or of possible
effects on living organisms. The later can only degenerate into a
religious debate.
In my original post I was only curious about actual meter readings taken
in various real life EVs at the driver seat. I/My company owns the
measuring equipment and have made many measurements on various motors
ranging from steppers, servos all the way up the the Montreal Subway Metro
electric drive motors and am speaking from experience.
I am not an anti-EV person. Actually I am about as pro-EV as they come. I
converted a bicycle and have been looking at the possibility of converting
a ICE car (Porsche 911) for over 10 years. Just waiting for the right
batteries.
My interest in the EM fields of the motors in personal and if there are
others on this list curious about them, and that actually can measure them
with meters not guestimates, be it a simple tri-field or more expensive
ones, I would be interested to share the numbers. If there is anyone in
the Montreal area that would like to measure their EV for free please
contact me off-list.
Thank You
Patrick Robin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The problem is, that the pot screw slot is a straight blade type. If you
are not dead on and a hair off, then I might have to rotate the a open blade
plastic or metal screw driver many times, before the it falls into the slot
and may slip off to the side.
So, get a plastic tuning screw driver with a shroud around it. Now it will
guild right on and in one turn it will fall right in. To get a reference at
the voltage you want, I cut the tuning driver so it just stick out enough
for a knob with a arrow to set screw on.
Make the arrow in line with the screw driver slot and mark a round stick on
emblem with a mark for the different voltages you want to adjust for.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: PFC-20
> On 9 May 2007 at 23:07, Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> > A short piece of hose cut to fit between the pot and the panel should do
> > it.
>
> I don't own a Manzanita PFC, but it seems to me that if a piece of hose
> would work, a grommet should work even better. Just drill the hole in the
> panel a bit larger. Yes? No?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, It sounds like you're having way too much fun showing off.
Gonna get your own show, eh. Ready for the notariaty?
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> (1) An LA area production company has proposed a 10 week television
> show that they want Plasma Boy, Otmar, and Tim Brehm to be part of. It
> includes high performance electric conversions of some pretty exotic
> machinery. I'll give more details if this actually works into something
> real...
...what, Jim Husted gets to stay down in his hole and get back to work? ;-P
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*cough* I'm sure you meant to say lithium? ;) NiMH isn't even in the
race anymore..
Maybe John could talk A123 into sponsoring the zombie, with all this
publicity it's getting. A couple of thousand A123 M1 cells would make
for an interesting battery pack.. (~1400kW on tap, if my math is
correct!)
On 13/05/2007, at 1:26 AM, Jack Murray wrote:
Nice to see Mr Wayland finally recognizing my position that AC
power is the way to build a performance car. Next shoe to drop
will be his using NiMH batteries.
Jack Murray
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
Whew, have the PR floodgates been opened! The Car and Driver
magazine exposure has really raised EV awareness.
A podcast interview between Vinny of 'Vinny's Garage' and I, will
run on alltalkradio.net <http://alltalkradio.net> on Tuesday 5 pm
Pacific. Also, it will be on Vinny's website at
www.vinnysgarage.com <http://www.vinnysgarage.com>. Since the May
issue debuted, I've had what seems to be a constant flow of
inquiries from the media and other interested parties:
(1) An LA area production company has proposed a 10 week
television show that they want Plasma Boy, Otmar, and Tim Brehm to
be part of. It includes high performance electric conversions of
some pretty exotic machinery. I'll give more details if this
actually works into something real...
(2) The Wall Street Journal has contacted me and we've had our
first interview. The story is still not yet solidified, but if it
does work out, they'll be out west to cover electric drag racing
in the next month or so.
(3) An Arizona based television production crew is coming to
Portland this weekend to interview me as part of a special about
the Tango and the state of electric cars. This will be a prime
time news special for national syndication.
(4) Interview for 'Vinny's Garage' completed yesterday, Thursday.
(5) A well known hi pro aircraft builder is in talks with me about
a prototype composite bodied hi pro lithium -AC electric sports car.
The Plasma Boy Racing web page is receiving on average, 11,059
hits a day. The stats page shows hits coming in from countless
gasser type web sites, such as Cobra sites, Mustang sites, Import
tuner sites, drag racing sites...the list goes on. Suffice it to
say, electric performance is being noticed! I never hurts to have
Car and Driver magazine describing an electric car's acceleration
as 'ferocious' (from C & D's web version photo slide show).
For those who haven't visited the Plasma Boy Racing site for a
while, you might want to check out the 2007 version of White
Zombie under 'White Zombie History'. The opening photo capture in
March by Carol Brown is an excellent launch picture. You can
clearly see the G Force drag radials balling-up as they emboss
their sticky tread pattern into the asphalt. You can also see Tim
tightly clenching the steering wheel, and you can see the
passenger cam, too. The left front tire is about 3 inches off the
ground while the right one is just lofting the pavement under the
high torque-twist of the Siamese 8, this, even after we redesigned
things and moved more battery weight forward to just behind the
front seat backs to reduce the wheel-standing effect.
One last tantalizing bit. I've given birth to a new name... 'Tri-
Zilla'! It's green, and about the size of three Z1Ks stacked end-
to-end.
#1 is under the aluminum hood of a Honda Insight and is being
tested on the streets of Oregon as I write this. A beta version
will be in my hands soon that will power-up a 'special' AC motor
for a new long range performance project car I've got planned.
Only those with the secret Bat Cave number are allowed to know
more :-)
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
