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Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Bill,
Interesting discussion. The Specific Power and
Specific Energy are related for a particular energy
storage system in what's called a Ragone chart. This
plots Specific Energy (Joules/gram or watt-sec/gram)
vs Specific Power (Watts/gram). For batteries and
caps alike, this plot or characteristic slopes down,
that is at higher power you get less energy. If you
then draw a line through the origin it will represent
a time equal to its slope. Where the time line
intersects the Ragone characteristic is the ideal
point where you could get all the energy out at the
power needed. In other words, the energy storage
system has a time constant.
Audio Caps (electrolytics) have time constants in the
millisecond range. Ultracaps in the low seconds.
Batteries in the minutes or even hours. You need a
time constant of 8 seconds. Way too long for
electrolytics, you'd need too much mass for the
required energy. A little too long for ultracaps,
you'd need more mass for energy. Too short a time
constant for batteries, so you need more mass for the
power.
Or work it backwards. I think I saw where your A123
pack weighs 73 kilograms. You use 500 Watt-hours.
That is an energy utlization of 6.8 Watt-hrs/kg. The
ultracap test showed 2 Watt-hrs/kg. Not as far off as
a first glance on the specs.
Now you don't need a million cycle life. So if I
start abusing the ultracaps with higher current and
higher voltage and shorten life, I might come close to
your A123 utilized energy density. I wish I had the
time and money to give it a go.
Jeff
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are two separate issues/limits you must
> concern yourself with
> for the battery pack in drag racing.: Specific Power
> and Specific Energy.
>
> You need to size the pack to deliver the required
> power AND the
> required energy. One or the other will be the
> limitation. (With caps,
> the energy is the limitation.)
>
> The A123 pack is sized to provide the HP needed.
> This sets the weight
> of the battery pack. There is extra energy left over
> at the end of
> the run that we don't need, but, oh well.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Fussy?
Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay
it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:18:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New Member info (was RE: direct drive or transmission?)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mike, thank you so much for taking the time and
sending me all these website references.
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Jem Yelkovan wrote:
> >
> > I am a new member and a beginner. COuld you please
> > tell me what some good resources are, whether web
> or
> > books, where I can learn from to start converting
> a
> > car to EV
>
>
> Right here my friend, right here!
> A book worth buying to get some details is Mike
> Brown's "Convert It"
> You can find it and all sorts of parts at his site
> http://www.electroauto.com/info/books.shtml
>
> Also try following the many links posted at places
> like:
> http://www.eaaev.org/ (consider joining this
> association for a nice News Letter)
> www.austinev.org
> www.seattleeva.org
> www.floridaeaa.org
> www.oeva.org
> http://www.evadc.org/
> www.pluginamerica.com
> www.durhamelectricvehicles.com
> http://evco.ca/
> www.veva.bc.ca
> www.alaskaEVA.org
> www.phoenixeaa.com
> www.teva2.com
> http://calcars.org/
> www.eaacc.org
> www.ebeaa.org
> www.konoctieaa.org
> www.nbeaa.org
> www.evaosd.com
> www.sfeva.org
> http://geocities.com/sjeaa/
> www.eaasv.org
> http://geocities.com/vceaa/
> www.evclubsouth.org
> www.fveaa.org
> http://maeaa.org/
> http://neeaa.org/
> www.pveaa.org
> http://mn.eaaev.org/
> www.lveva.org
> www.rtpnet.org/teaa
> www.rtpnet.org/teaa
> www.eevc.info
> www.aceaa.org
> www.heaa.org
> http://geocities.com/nteaa
> www.saltflats.com
>
>
>
>
>
Subject: Re: New Member info (was RE: direct drive or transmission?)
From: Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:25:07 -0700
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 23:12 -0800, Mike Willmon wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Jem Yelkovan wrote:
> >
> > I am a new member and a beginner. COuld you please
> > tell me what some good resources are, whether web or
> > books, where I can learn from to start converting a
> > car to EV
>
>
> Right here my friend, right here!
> A book worth buying to get some details is Mike Brown's "Convert It"
> You can find it and all sorts of parts at his site
> http://www.electroauto.com/info/books.shtml
A very valuable book not mentioned at the electroauto site is Build Your
Own Electric Vehicle by Bob Brant (c 1994, 300 pages). Despite the
title, it is really about converting an internal combustion vehicle to
electric. It covers in detail a number of topics only mentioned by the
"Convert It" book, but does not discuss the nuts and bolts of conversion
in as much detail as the "Convert It" book. In my opinion, you really
want to read both books (several times).
--Steve
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:28:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Insulated battery box.
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
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I am making battery boxes and want to insulate them with rigid
noncombustible material about an inch thick. What will be a good material
and where is the best place to get it? Thanks for all responses
JJ
>
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Subject: RE: Motor needed
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:31:57 -0400
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
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I have been thinking about this type of setup with a current truck.
There are some things you need to think about:
1. If you are putting the motor between the transmission and the
carrier bearing you would be running the motor in direct drive. A full
size truck with the engine and transmission in it will be around 4,000
pounds. Then add about 1500 pounds for batteries (26 batteries - 156
volt, 55 pounds each) and that is HUGE. Even 12 12V batteries (144V) is
660 pounds. That I think is too much for even a 13" motor.
2. If you are thinking a Electric Assist, you will need some type of
control matrix to offer electric push during some of the acceleration
but not all. Without it the acceleration would be jerky. There is a
guy who converted a Neon to electric assist with a 2 cyl diesel and was
getting around 60 mpg. I think he has a website called 21 ponies. He
did the electric motor with his finger on the stick shift. I don't know
how well that worked.
I think you would want the largest motor possible. Anything smaller
would be very difficult to get the torque needed without ruining the
motor prematurely.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Hrivnak
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:22
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Motor needed
I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something that is
double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and ideally 1.170"
AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7 and 8"
but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go through
the shaft it will twist it right in half.
The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the clearance
for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5 motor shops with no
luck so far.
I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go between the
transmission and the differential. It will need to handle nearly 1000
ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But we are
hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for cleaner
air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a success
millions.
If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop whom may
be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
Thank you
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Does anyone know of a good steam car group?
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:33 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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GWMobile asked: Does anyone know of a good steam car group?
Yes.
Try these:
SACA (Steam Automobile Club of America) www.steamautomobile.com
SACA Discussion Forum: http://www.steamautomobile.com/ForuM/
Stanley Steamers (great steam links and pics/vids): www.stanleysteamers.com
-Myles Twete, SACA/NW member
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:43:45 -0600
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Or work it backwards. I think I saw where your A123
>pack weighs 73 kilograms. You use 500 Watt-hours.
>That is an energy utlization of 6.8 Watt-hrs/kg. The
>ultracap test showed 2 Watt-hrs/kg. Not as far off as
>a first glance on the specs.
The trouble is, you can't use the maximum values for both
the specific energy and the specific power from the caps at the same
time. You can (almost) with batteries, however.
The drag racing application requires a discharge curve that
is completely the inverse of what capacitors can provide. Thus, they
are just about useless for drag racing compared to batteries.
Ordinary AGM motorcycle starting batteries will out-perform
the very best state-of-the-art ultra capacitors on the drag strip.
>Now you don't need a million cycle life. So if I
>start abusing the ultracaps with higher current and
>higher voltage and shorten life, I might come close to
>your A123 utilized energy density. I wish I had the
>time and money to give it a go.
It is a lot cheaper and faster to simply put together a
simple computer model. You can do it with a spreadsheet program and
take 0.1 second time steps with each row. Figure the current draw,
torque, volts, speed, etc then move the bike down the track an
increment with each row. It doesn't have to be perfect.
The way to go fast is to make most of your "mistakes" on
paper first. This is the main advantage that the KillaCycle team has
over the other competitors. For example, we don't just put in a fat
cable, we calculate the optimal sized cable. It weighs only as much
as it needs to weigh, but it doesn't get too hot or waste too much
energy for the weight that is saved.
Indeed, we learn new things on every run down the strip, but
we don't "waste" runs down the strip on anything we can calculate on
paper beforehand. This makes the difference between "fast" and "the fastest".
Bill Dube'
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Who can fix Curtis Controller?
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) My curtis controller needs to be rebuilt or replaced, it's a 1221B 70-120V,
and it just stopped working, no smoke, sparks, or melting, just some popping
noises and then it was dead, it looks fine though and had been working since
'91. Does anyone on this list know of anyone in the Los Angeles area who
does work on EV's or can replace or repair my controller? I can pay & tow it
where ever, but I don't have the tools, know-how, or space to fix it.
Thanks,
Justin
323 233 9501
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Try removing your controller and sending it to
http://www.fsip.biz/
They fixed mine and it didn't cost that much either.
Joseph Lado
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Lee,
My tests were in the 300 amp range. I would not think
this would change the internal resistance. I showed 7
to 8 milliOhms consistently. That was 10.0 to 10.5
volts at the start of the test, room temp, fully
charged. Red top 800S. Volt meter was on test stand,
so had a few tenths volt drop up to it with 2/0 cables
and contact drop at the battery posts. Occasionaly
double checked with Fluke DVM on battery posts and
were pretty close. Tests were done 1996 thru 2004.
Jeff
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The Optimas I've tested have ranged from 2.7 to 3.5
> mohms, determined by
> the change in voltage divided by the change in
> current when switching
> between a 25a and 75a load. This is for new, fully
> charged batteries
> after break-in, at about 75 deg.F.
>
> The resistance drops if they are hotter. It rises as
> they get colder, or
> as state of charge drop, and as they age. An
> advantage of capacitors is
> that their internal resistance does not vary as much
> over these conditions.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Got
a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
Subject: New to the list, but intrigued w/ questions
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:33:20 -0700
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Hello - I never realized the amount of people involved in EV.
=20
Anyway, I would love to try it but for me, for now, the costs involved
seem quite high. Can used parts be had for the conversion? Good idea/
bad idea? I couldn't find a definitive answer, but could a small Honda
or other generator be run on board? This is not to run the motor
directly but to provide charge for distance. Perhaps less batteries for
the trade off??
=20
Information, sources etc. would be greatly appreciated.
=20
Thanks,
Mike
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:33:20 -0700
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From: "Mike Cattaneo--
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:54:00 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Motor needed
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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NetGain has developed an interface module to plug into the computer. So we are
not looking to power the truck by electric only. We are looking to assist.
To take city MPG from say 15 to 19 MPG.
I would love to have full electric BUT if we want to sell a system it needs to
be affordable. From what I see a 13 inch motor is 2X the cost of an 8. I was
also planning on about 600 lbs of batteries due to cost and space. I want to
keep the full bed open and have plenty of hauling capacity. So the ICE will
always run and the electric will run as much as possible while the ICE
supplies the extra torque. The hope is the ICE will just idle most of the time.
So I am looking at an incremental MPG improvement not full electric drive. The
main reason is I could not find an electric motor set up that would work
without EXTENSIVE modifications to the truck like taking out the motor. Again
cost is a factor.
That is why I have the 8" motor limitation as I do not want to go to the
trouble and expense of moving both the gas tank and muffler. While EV's have
many advantages I do use my truck frequently to drive 650 miles a day or haul
mulch and building supplies. A pure electric will not meet the needs. And if
we are sucessful even a 25% improvement on some 10,000,000 (the number of drive
by wire trucks on the road) would be like 2,500,000 EV's on the road. Not
perfect but a good step forward.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: RE: Motor needed
Date: Thu May 17, 2007 12:34 pm
Size: 2K
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
I have been thinking about this type of setup with a current truck.
There are some things you need to think about:
1. If you are putting the motor between the transmission and the
carrier bearing you would be running the motor in direct drive. A full
size truck with the engine and transmission in it will be around 4,000
pounds. Then add about 1500 pounds for batteries (26 batteries - 156
volt, 55 pounds each) and that is HUGE. Even 12 12V batteries (144V) is
660 pounds. That I think is too much for even a 13" motor.
2. If you are thinking a Electric Assist, you will need some type of
control matrix to offer electric push during some of the acceleration
but not all. Without it the acceleration would be jerky. There is a
guy who converted a Neon to electric assist with a 2 cyl diesel and was
getting around 60 mpg. I think he has a website called 21 ponies. He
did the electric motor with his finger on the stick shift. I don't know
how well that worked.
I think you would want the largest motor possible. Anything smaller
would be very difficult to get the torque needed without ruining the
motor prematurely.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Hrivnak
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:22
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Motor needed
I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something that is
double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and ideally 1.170"
AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7 and 8"
but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go through
the shaft it will twist it right in half.
The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the clearance
for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5 motor shops with no
luck so far.
I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go between the
transmission and the differential. It will need to handle nearly 1000
ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But we are
hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for cleaner
air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a success
millions.
If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop whom may
be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
Thank you
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:18:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Solar boat completes Atlantic crossing - Green Machines -
MSNBC.com
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
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On Tue, May 15, 2007 3:40 pm, GWMobile wrote:
> They weren't racing.
> Duh.
Yep... a good thing, since the solar powered boat took 5 times longer to
get here than rowing. (About the equivilent of pushing my car to work.
<g>)
A cute experiment, but not very practical.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Motor needed
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:27:36 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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So basically, you're starting the day with a full charge in 600 lbs of
batteries, which equates to how many gallons of gas? Less than 1 gallon I
believe. If you drive beyond the point that you've used up that energy
(assuning you've saved that many gallons, except you're heavier now, so you
might not actually save one whole gallon), you're dragging around around 800
extra pounds. So beyond that point, it sounds like your mileage will be
significantly worse. How far do you go before the extra weight costs you
another gallon?
I think the idea has promise if you know the daily usage is known to be
enough to use the energy in the batteries (replacing some fuel consumption),
but not much more, where they're dead weight. It sounds like that is
NetGain's target user, like a UPS truck with very consistant use. But if
you are sometimes driving 650 miles a day, and carrying an extra 800 lbs,
are you really going to be saving anything in the long run?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Motor needed
> NetGain has developed an interface module to plug into the computer. So
> we are not looking to power the truck by electric only. We are looking
> to assist. To take city MPG from say 15 to 19 MPG.
>
> I would love to have full electric BUT if we want to sell a system it
> needs to be affordable. From what I see a 13 inch motor is 2X the cost of
> an 8. I was also planning on about 600 lbs of batteries due to cost and
> space. I want to keep the full bed open and have plenty of hauling
> capacity. So the ICE will always run and the electric will run as much as
> possible while the ICE supplies the extra torque. The hope is the ICE
> will just idle most of the time.
>
> So I am looking at an incremental MPG improvement not full electric drive.
> The main reason is I could not find an electric motor set up that would
> work without EXTENSIVE modifications to the truck like taking out the
> motor. Again cost is a factor.
>
> That is why I have the 8" motor limitation as I do not want to go to the
> trouble and expense of moving both the gas tank and muffler. While EV's
> have many advantages I do use my truck frequently to drive 650 miles a day
> or haul mulch and building supplies. A pure electric will not meet the
> needs. And if we are sucessful even a 25% improvement on some 10,000,000
> (the number of drive by wire trucks on the road) would be like 2,500,000
> EV's on the road. Not perfect but a good step forward.
>
>
>
> via Treo
> David Hrivnak
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subj: RE: Motor needed
> Date: Thu May 17, 2007 12:34 pm
> Size: 2K
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> I have been thinking about this type of setup with a current truck.
> There are some things you need to think about:
>
> 1. If you are putting the motor between the transmission and the
> carrier bearing you would be running the motor in direct drive. A full
> size truck with the engine and transmission in it will be around 4,000
> pounds. Then add about 1500 pounds for batteries (26 batteries - 156
> volt, 55 pounds each) and that is HUGE. Even 12 12V batteries (144V) is
> 660 pounds. That I think is too much for even a 13" motor.
>
> 2. If you are thinking a Electric Assist, you will need some type of
> control matrix to offer electric push during some of the acceleration
> but not all. Without it the acceleration would be jerky. There is a
> guy who converted a Neon to electric assist with a 2 cyl diesel and was
> getting around 60 mpg. I think he has a website called 21 ponies. He
> did the electric motor with his finger on the stick shift. I don't know
> how well that worked.
>
> I think you would want the largest motor possible. Anything smaller
> would be very difficult to get the torque needed without ruining the
> motor prematurely.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Hrivnak
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:22
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Motor needed
>
>
> I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
> project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something that is
> double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and ideally 1.170"
> AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
>
> I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7 and 8"
> but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go through
> the shaft it will twist it right in half.
>
> The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the clearance
> for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5 motor shops with no
> luck so far.
>
> I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go between the
> transmission and the differential. It will need to handle nearly 1000
> ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But we are
> hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
> While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
> 9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for cleaner
> air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a success
> millions.
>
> If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop whom may
> be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> David J. Hrivnak
>
> www.hrivnak.com
>
> Personal Account WWJD?
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On Tue, May 15, 2007 8:16 pm, George Swartz wrote:
> Its a forgotten small detail, but if everyone converted to EV's, state
> and federal road taxes now applied to gasoline would have to be added to
> the cost of electricity, boosting the electrical cost/mile somewhat.
Actually, states are already looking at adding a surtax to all vehicles.
(Fuel taxes aren't covering road maintenance.) Right now, they are looking
at charging a per-mile tax, so a SUV would have the same fees as the BugE.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Patrick Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: My friend wants to sign up to the list
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:36:11 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I have been a member for 6 months and have forgotten how to subscribe.
thanks
_________________________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I'd suggest based on vehicle weight, on the idea that heavier vehicles
> cause more wear and tear on the roads.
I thought that would be so, also... but in Oregon they are saying weight
is not important (to roadd wear) until you get into semi-truck sized
vehicles.
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:38:55 -0800
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: My friend wants to sign up to the list
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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That information can be found on:
http://www.evdl.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:37 am
Subject: My friend wants to sign up to the list
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I have been a member for 6 months and have forgotten how to
> subscribe.
> thanks
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning
> Windows
> Live Hotmail.
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
> us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:39:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: belly pan plastic
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On Wed, May 16, 2007 5:37 am, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> It's also used in signs, like some Real Estate for sale signs etc. I
> bought mine at a local sign shop in 4' x 8' sheets. Pretty cheap. If yo
> want something more durable (and heavier) you can try the fiberglass or
> plastic panels that you can buy at your local hardware store. They use
> them in bath rooms for tub surrounds, etc.
Thanks for the suggestion (like some Real Estate for sale signs). <g>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:33:05 -0700
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And he did it on tired lead with a Raptor 1200 amp controller.
And a single series wound AVDC 8 incher.
That basically is stock.
I will be real surprised if you get even close with permag.
A touch of lithium and 2000 amps, and well, that will make up for our
current draw backs.
You get close and I might have to loan them the Z2K that you used a couple
years ago..
I am not sure they are in the race this year I have not heard from them in a
long time.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:54 PM
Subject: AGNS has new motors
> The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and ready for a shot at
> the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday night.
> Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather , (mid 50's and a
> chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in place. I tuned them
> on the test bench this morning slightly different than before. I'll
> try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage this time. We're
> making some charging changes as well. Hopefully all of this leads to
> the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit closer to the 12's. I
> was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today and it just struck me
> how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane Gergich ran a 12.49 at
> 100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn quick for any bike but
> is second overall to the Killacycle at less than half the voltage! I
> think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
>
> Shawn Lawless
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:42:00 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Motor needed
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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excellent questions and only data will tell. The trials have shown the
batteries can assist for about 50 miles. Which would handle 90% or more of the
days and yes I would plug in at night.
The Truck on a trip normally weighs about 6500 lbs so weight will increase 10%
I am not sure how much mileage will drop but I hope to partially offset the
loss by using the electric rather than dropping into passing gear on hills.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: Re: Motor needed
Date: Thu May 17, 2007 3:29 pm
Size: 5K
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
So basically, you're starting the day with a full charge in 600 lbs of
batteries, which equates to how many gallons of gas? Less than 1 gallon I
believe. If you drive beyond the point that you've used up that energy
(assuning you've saved that many gallons, except you're heavier now, so you
might not actually save one whole gallon), you're dragging around around 800
extra pounds. So beyond that point, it sounds like your mileage will be
significantly worse. How far do you go before the extra weight costs you
another gallon?
I think the idea has promise if you know the daily usage is known to be
enough to use the energy in the batteries (replacing some fuel consumption),
but not much more, where they're dead weight. It sounds like that is
NetGain's target user, like a UPS truck with very consistant use. But if
you are sometimes driving 650 miles a day, and carrying an extra 800 lbs,
are you really going to be saving anything in the long run?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Motor needed
> NetGain has developed an interface module to plug into the computer. So
> we are not looking to power the truck by electric only. We are looking
> to assist. To take city MPG from say 15 to 19 MPG.
>
> I would love to have full electric BUT if we want to sell a system it
> needs to be affordable. From what I see a 13 inch motor is 2X the cost of
> an 8. I was also planning on about 600 lbs of batteries due to cost and
> space. I want to keep the full bed open and have plenty of hauling
> capacity. So the ICE will always run and the electric will run as much as
> possible while the ICE supplies the extra torque. The hope is the ICE
> will just idle most of the time.
>
> So I am looking at an incremental MPG improvement not full electric drive.
> The main reason is I could not find an electric motor set up that would
> work without EXTENSIVE modifications to the truck like taking out the
> motor. Again cost is a factor.
>
> That is why I have the 8" motor limitation as I do not want to go to the
> trouble and expense of moving both the gas tank and muffler. While EV's
> have many advantages I do use my truck frequently to drive 650 miles a day
> or haul mulch and building supplies. A pure electric will not meet the
> needs. And if we are sucessful even a 25% improvement on some 10,000,000
> (the number of drive by wire trucks on the road) would be like 2,500,000
> EV's on the road. Not perfect but a good step forward.
>
>
>
> via Treo
> David Hrivnak
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subj: RE: Motor needed
> Date: Thu May 17, 2007 12:34 pm
> Size: 2K
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> I have been thinking about this type of setup with a current truck.
> There are some things you need to think about:
>
> 1. If you are putting the motor between the transmission and the
> carrier bearing you would be running the motor in direct drive. A full
> size truck with the engine and transmission in it will be around 4,000
> pounds. Then add about 1500 pounds for batteries (26 batteries - 156
> volt, 55 pounds each) and that is HUGE. Even 12 12V batteries (144V) is
> 660 pounds. That I think is too much for even a 13" motor.
>
> 2. If you are thinking a Electric Assist, you will need some type of
> control matrix to offer electric push during some of the acceleration
> but not all. Without it the acceleration would be jerky. There is a
> guy who converted a Neon to electric assist with a 2 cyl diesel and was
> getting around 60 mpg. I think he has a website called 21 ponies. He
> did the electric motor with his finger on the stick shift. I don't know
> how well that worked.
>
> I think you would want the largest motor possible. Anything smaller
> would be very difficult to get the torque needed without ruining the
> motor prematurely.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Hrivnak
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:22
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Motor needed
>
>
> I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
> project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something that is
> double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and ideally 1.170"
> AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
>
> I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7 and 8"
> but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go through
> the shaft it will twist it right in half.
>
> The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the clearance
> for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5 motor shops with no
> luck so far.
>
> I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go between the
> transmission and the differential. It will need to handle nearly 1000
> ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But we are
> hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
> While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
> 9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for cleaner
> air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a success
> millions.
>
> If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop whom may
> be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> David J. Hrivnak
>
> www.hrivnak.com
>
> Personal Account WWJD?
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
