EV Digest 6786
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: belly pan plastic - protection option's
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Motor needed
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Insulated battery box.
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Motor needed
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor needed
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Insulated battery box.
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Front End Cover -- was Insulated battery box.
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor needed
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Second contactor location?
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: New to the list, but intrigued w/ questions
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor needed
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Front End Cover -- was Insulated battery box.
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New to the list, but intrigued w/ questions
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: New to the list, but intrigued w/ questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Second contactor location?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Front End Cover -- was Insulated battery box.
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Second contactor location?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AGNS has new motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: AGNS has new motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I cutout plastic(choroplast),screw it into place, then
use rubberized undercoating in the spray can, and coat
the bottom of the plastic (part that is exposed to the
road). I even spray the top of the plastic with
"Spray on Bedliner Material from WallyWorld"
PS: The spray on bedliner material works great as a
coating for the area's where your batteries are
located also (especially if they are inside the
passenger compartment of your car, it helps save that
thin sheetmetal from corrosion). I worked in a metal
pickling plant for a few years, and we used the
bedliner material as a coating over all metal tanks
and anything else, that could come into contact with
the acid.
--- Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2007 5:37 am, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > It's also used in signs, like some Real Estate for
> sale signs etc. I
> > bought mine at a local sign shop in 4' x 8'
> sheets. Pretty cheap. If yo
> > want something more durable (and heavier) you can
> try the fiberglass or
> > plastic panels that you can buy at your local
> hardware store. They use
> > them in bath rooms for tub surrounds, etc.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion (like some Real Estate for
> sale signs). <g>
>
>
Michael Barkley
www.texomaev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the idea is to use the cheap efficient electricity to power
accelerations where ICE vehicles waste a fair amount. Stop and go city driving
is hard on an ICE that way. And that was what David stated **To take city MPG
from say 15 to 19 MPG.
**. I'll dissagree with his statement though that the electrics should run
most of the time and the ICE would kick in extra torque. I think thats
backwards. The electrics should provide the short bursts of high torque to get
a load moving and the ICE would run at an average load tuned to its peak
efficiency. This could feasably increase the city mileage from 15 mpg to 19
mpg and I think this is the intent of the Netgain EMIS system.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:29 am
Subject: Re: Motor needed
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> So basically, you're starting the day with a full charge in 600
> lbs of
> batteries, which equates to how many gallons of gas? Less than 1
> gallon I
> believe. If you drive beyond the point that you've used up that
> energy
> (assuning you've saved that many gallons, except you're heavier
> now, so you
> might not actually save one whole gallon), you're dragging around
> around 800
> extra pounds. So beyond that point, it sounds like your mileage
> will be
> significantly worse. How far do you go before the extra weight
> costs you
> another gallon?
>
> I think the idea has promise if you know the daily usage is known
> to be
> enough to use the energy in the batteries (replacing some fuel
> consumption),
> but not much more, where they're dead weight. It sounds like that
> is
> NetGain's target user, like a UPS truck with very consistant use.
> But if
> you are sometimes driving 650 miles a day, and carrying an extra
> 800 lbs,
> are you really going to be saving anything in the long run?
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:54 PM
> Subject: RE: Motor needed
>
>
> > NetGain has developed an interface module to plug into the
> computer. So
> > we are not looking to power the truck by electric only. We are
> looking
> > to assist. To take city MPG from say 15 to 19 MPG.
> >
> > I would love to have full electric BUT if we want to sell a
> system it
> > needs to be affordable. From what I see a 13 inch motor is 2X
> the cost of
> > an 8. I was also planning on about 600 lbs of batteries due to
> cost and
> > space. I want to keep the full bed open and have plenty of
> hauling
> > capacity. So the ICE will always run and the electric will run
> as much as
> > possible while the ICE supplies the extra torque. The hope is
> the ICE
> > will just idle most of the time.
> >
> > So I am looking at an incremental MPG improvement not full
> electric drive.
> > The main reason is I could not find an electric motor set up
> that would
> > work without EXTENSIVE modifications to the truck like taking
> out the
> > motor. Again cost is a factor.
> >
> > That is why I have the 8" motor limitation as I do not want to
> go to the
> > trouble and expense of moving both the gas tank and muffler.
> While EV's
> > have many advantages I do use my truck frequently to drive 650
> miles a day
> > or haul mulch and building supplies. A pure electric will not
> meet the
> > needs. And if we are sucessful even a 25% improvement on some
> 10,000,000
> > (the number of drive by wire trucks on the road) would be like
> 2,500,000
> > EV's on the road. Not perfect but a good step forward.
> >
> >
> >
> > via Treo
> > David Hrivnak
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Subj: RE: Motor needed
> > Date: Thu May 17, 2007 12:34 pm
> > Size: 2K
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >
> > I have been thinking about this type of setup with a current truck.
> > There are some things you need to think about:
> >
> > 1. If you are putting the motor between the transmission and the
> > carrier bearing you would be running the motor in direct drive.
> A full
> > size truck with the engine and transmission in it will be around
> 4,000> pounds. Then add about 1500 pounds for batteries (26
> batteries - 156
> > volt, 55 pounds each) and that is HUGE. Even 12 12V batteries
> (144V) is
> > 660 pounds. That I think is too much for even a 13" motor.
> >
> > 2. If you are thinking a Electric Assist, you will need some
> type of
> > control matrix to offer electric push during some of the
> acceleration> but not all. Without it the acceleration would be
> jerky. There is a
> > guy who converted a Neon to electric assist with a 2 cyl diesel
> and was
> > getting around 60 mpg. I think he has a website called 21
> ponies. He
> > did the electric motor with his finger on the stick shift. I
> don't know
> > how well that worked.
> >
> > I think you would want the largest motor possible. Anything smaller
> > would be very difficult to get the torque needed without ruining the
> > motor prematurely.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of David Hrivnak
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:22
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Motor needed
> >
> >
> > I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
> > project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something
> that is
> > double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and
> ideally 1.170"
> > AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
> >
> > I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7
> and 8"
> > but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go
> through> the shaft it will twist it right in half.
> >
> > The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the
> clearance> for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5
> motor shops with no
> > luck so far.
> >
> > I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go
> between the
> > transmission and the differential. It will need to handle
> nearly 1000
> > ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But
> we are
> > hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
> > While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
> > 9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for
> cleaner> air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a
> success> millions.
> >
> > If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop
> whom may
> > be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> > David J. Hrivnak
> >
> > www.hrivnak.com
> >
> > Personal Account WWJD?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 12:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am making battery boxes and want to insulate them with rigid
> noncombustible material about an inch thick. What will be a good material
> and where is the best place to get it? Thanks for all responses
> JJ
>
> >
>
>
I used 3/4" thick blue styrofoam insulation from Lowe's.
After one winter I have found that I need either battery heaters or a
heated garage to make the insulation worthwhile.
Rich
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1130
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just happen to have Prestolite motor with a two inch shaft on each
end. One end is 1.124 in. diameter and the other is .75 in. diameter.
Bob Boyd, Hayden Idaho 208 772 6159
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Hrivnak
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:22 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Motor needed
I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something that is
double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and ideally 1.170"
AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7 and 8"
but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go through
the shaft it will twist it right in half.
The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the clearance
for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5 motor shops with no
luck so far.
I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go between the
transmission and the differential. It will need to handle nearly 1000
ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But we are
hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for cleaner
air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a success
millions.
If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop whom may
be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
Thank you
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:27 PM 5/17/2007, Marty Hewes wrote:
So basically, you're starting the day with a full charge in 600 lbs
of batteries, which equates to how many gallons of gas? Less than 1
gallon I believe. If you drive beyond the point that you've used up
that energy (assuning you've saved that many gallons, except you're
heavier now, so you might not actually save one whole gallon),
you're dragging around around 800 extra pounds. So beyond that
point, it sounds like your mileage will be significantly worse. How
far do you go before the extra weight costs you another gallon?
Except that in a truck, 600 lbs of cargo makes almost no difference
in MPG. That is only a small fraction of the trucks weight.
In a EV Car, that would be a LARGE fraction of the cars weight.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about RockWool Fire Barrier http://www.rockwool.co.uk/sw48132.asp
I don't know how much it costs or even where to get it though.
Another thought is to use drywall/Gypsum board if you want fireproof.
I'm just using a 2" high density bead board.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2007 8:31 am
Subject: Insulated battery box.
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I am making battery boxes and want to insulate them with rigid
> noncombustible material about an inch thick. What will be a good
> materialand where is the best place to get it? Thanks for all
> responsesJJ
>
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, I was checking out your truck photos and I like that cover you
have in place of the front grill on your truck. Where did you get it?
--- John
On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 12:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am making battery boxes and want to insulate them with rigid
> noncombustible material about an inch thick. What will be a good
material
> and where is the best place to get it? Thanks for all responses
> JJ
>
> >
>
>
I used 3/4" thick blue styrofoam insulation from Lowe's.
After one winter I have found that I need either battery heaters or a
heated garage to make the insulation worthwhile.
Rich
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1130
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
City driving might be a good application for supercaps in this type of vehicle.
Maxwell has/had a contract to do a bunch of buses in California and I believe
other HD stop-and-go vehicles. Isn't Fedex doing something with this type of
hybrid?
----- Original Message ----
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:54:03 PM
Subject: Re: Motor needed
I think the idea is to use the cheap efficient electricity to power
accelerations where ICE vehicles waste a fair amount. Stop and go city driving
is hard on an ICE that way. And that was what David stated **To take city MPG
from say 15 to 19 MPG.
**. I'll dissagree with his statement though that the electrics should run
most of the time and the ICE would kick in extra torque. I think thats
backwards. The electrics should provide the short bursts of high torque to get
a load moving and the ICE would run at an average load tuned to its peak
efficiency. This could feasably increase the city mileage from 15 mpg to 19
mpg and I think this is the intent of the Netgain EMIS system.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:29 am
Subject: Re: Motor needed
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> So basically, you're starting the day with a full charge in 600
> lbs of
> batteries, which equates to how many gallons of gas? Less than 1
> gallon I
> believe. If you drive beyond the point that you've used up that
> energy
> (assuning you've saved that many gallons, except you're heavier
> now, so you
> might not actually save one whole gallon), you're dragging around
> around 800
> extra pounds. So beyond that point, it sounds like your mileage
> will be
> significantly worse. How far do you go before the extra weight
> costs you
> another gallon?
>
> I think the idea has promise if you know the daily usage is known
> to be
> enough to use the energy in the batteries (replacing some fuel
> consumption),
> but not much more, where they're dead weight. It sounds like that
> is
> NetGain's target user, like a UPS truck with very consistant use.
> But if
> you are sometimes driving 650 miles a day, and carrying an extra
> 800 lbs,
> are you really going to be saving anything in the long run?
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:54 PM
> Subject: RE: Motor needed
>
>
> > NetGain has developed an interface module to plug into the
> computer. So
> > we are not looking to power the truck by electric only. We are
> looking
> > to assist. To take city MPG from say 15 to 19 MPG.
> >
> > I would love to have full electric BUT if we want to sell a
> system it
> > needs to be affordable. From what I see a 13 inch motor is 2X
> the cost of
> > an 8. I was also planning on about 600 lbs of batteries due to
> cost and
> > space. I want to keep the full bed open and have plenty of
> hauling
> > capacity. So the ICE will always run and the electric will run
> as much as
> > possible while the ICE supplies the extra torque. The hope is
> the ICE
> > will just idle most of the time.
> >
> > So I am looking at an incremental MPG improvement not full
> electric drive.
> > The main reason is I could not find an electric motor set up
> that would
> > work without EXTENSIVE modifications to the truck like taking
> out the
> > motor. Again cost is a factor.
> >
> > That is why I have the 8" motor limitation as I do not want to
> go to the
> > trouble and expense of moving both the gas tank and muffler.
> While EV's
> > have many advantages I do use my truck frequently to drive 650
> miles a day
> > or haul mulch and building supplies. A pure electric will not
> meet the
> > needs. And if we are sucessful even a 25% improvement on some
> 10,000,000
> > (the number of drive by wire trucks on the road) would be like
> 2,500,000
> > EV's on the road. Not perfect but a good step forward.
> >
> >
> >
> > via Treo
> > David Hrivnak
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Subj: RE: Motor needed
> > Date: Thu May 17, 2007 12:34 pm
> > Size: 2K
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >
> > I have been thinking about this type of setup with a current truck.
> > There are some things you need to think about:
> >
> > 1. If you are putting the motor between the transmission and the
> > carrier bearing you would be running the motor in direct drive.
> A full
> > size truck with the engine and transmission in it will be around
> 4,000> pounds. Then add about 1500 pounds for batteries (26
> batteries - 156
> > volt, 55 pounds each) and that is HUGE. Even 12 12V batteries
> (144V) is
> > 660 pounds. That I think is too much for even a 13" motor.
> >
> > 2. If you are thinking a Electric Assist, you will need some
> type of
> > control matrix to offer electric push during some of the
> acceleration> but not all. Without it the acceleration would be
> jerky. There is a
> > guy who converted a Neon to electric assist with a 2 cyl diesel
> and was
> > getting around 60 mpg. I think he has a website called 21
> ponies. He
> > did the electric motor with his finger on the stick shift. I
> don't know
> > how well that worked.
> >
> > I think you would want the largest motor possible. Anything smaller
> > would be very difficult to get the torque needed without ruining the
> > motor prematurely.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of David Hrivnak
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:22
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Motor needed
> >
> >
> > I am trying to locate an electric motor for an electric conversion
> > project and so far I have not had any luck. I need something
> that is
> > double shafted with the shaft that is at least 1.125" and
> ideally 1.170"
> > AND the motor is less than 8" in diameter.
> >
> > I know ADC and Netgain produce double shafted motors between 6.7
> and 8"
> > but the comm end is only .875" and with the torque that will go
> through> the shaft it will twist it right in half.
> >
> > The TransWarp 9 has the necessary shaft but I do not have the
> clearance> for such a large diameter motor. I have contacted 5
> motor shops with no
> > luck so far.
> >
> > I am working on a hybrid truck idea where the motor will go
> between the
> > transmission and the differential. It will need to handle
> nearly 1000
> > ft-lb of torque as the ICE motor will be left in and used. But
> we are
> > hoping the electric will be able to assist and improve gas mileage.
> > While not a true EV if we can improve gas mileage on the more than
> > 9,000,000 late model trucks and SUV's it will go a long way for
> cleaner> air and introduce electric concepts to thousands and if a
> success> millions.
> >
> > If any of you have leads on a motor manufacturer or motor shop
> whom may
> > be willing to build a prototype motor please let me know.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> > David J. Hrivnak
> >
> > www.hrivnak.com
> >
> > Personal Account WWJD?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Get
the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using two SW200 contactors with my Zilla 1k. Both will be in the
same location one as the main and the second switching the entire
pack off with the ignition key. Is there a preference to put the pack
contactor on the positive or negative side. IE, example #1- pack
contactor then main contactor in series before Zilla. Example two
main contactor as usual before Zilla then the pack contactor on the
NEGATIVE side of the Zilla between the pack and the ZIlla.
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
The discussion about a small generator on board is well documented in
the list archives. Emissions from a small generator are higher than a
gas powered vehicle.
For ideas on used parts keep reading the list, or search the archives
and you will see many projects to give you some ideas. Look at the drag
bike http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/DriveChain4.JPG of
Bill Dube using two 6.7 inch DC motors that if I remember correctly
were picked up used & rebuilt by a list member, Jim Husted
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/
Electric forklifts can be a source of motors, contactors, etc.. if you
know what to look for.
You will find that the list has participants that sell new EV parts as
well.
My own project is at a standstill as I look for parts, and am looking to
buy a home (the current prospect does not have a garage, no carport, no
storage, you'd think I live in California where houses cost an arm, a
leg, and your first EV.)
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Cattaneo
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:33 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: New to the list, but intrigued w/ questions
Hello - I never realized the amount of people involved in EV.
Anyway, I would love to try it but for me, for now, the costs involved
seem quite high. Can used parts be had for the conversion? Good idea/
bad idea? I couldn't find a definitive answer, but could a small Honda
or other generator be run on board? This is not to run the motor
directly but to provide charge for distance. Perhaps less batteries for
the trade off??
Information, sources etc. would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bingo. Great application for ultracaps. Better than
drag racing. You'll need regen. Ultracaps won't get
you very far without it. Interested in commercial
hybrid trucks, see
http://www.calstart.org/programs/htuf/
Jeff
--- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> City driving might be a good application for
> supercaps in this type of vehicle. Maxwell has/had
> a contract to do a bunch of buses in California and
> I believe other HD stop-and-go vehicles. Isn't
> Fedex doing something with this type of hybrid?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:54:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Motor needed
>
> I think the idea is to use the cheap efficient
> electricity to power accelerations where ICE
> vehicles waste a fair amount. Stop and go city
> driving is hard on an ICE that way. And that was
> what David stated **To take city MPG from say 15 to
> 19 MPG.
> **. I'll dissagree with his statement though that
> the electrics should run most of the time and the
> ICE would kick in extra torque. I think thats
> backwards. The electrics should provide the short
> bursts of high torque to get a load moving and the
> ICE would run at an average load tuned to its peak
> efficiency. This could feasably increase the city
> mileage from 15 mpg to 19 mpg and I think this is
> the intent of the Netgain EMIS system.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 13:16 -0700, Grigg. John wrote:
> Rich, I was checking out your truck photos and I like that cover you
> have in place of the front grill on your truck. Where did you get it?
> --- John
I took the stock plastic grill, put duct tape over the backside of the
openings, squirted expandable foam into the openings, shaved off the
overage, and then bondoed over the top. It kind of had an alien look to
it at first so I had that "ELECTRIC" sign made.
Rich,
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1130
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Additionally it seems unlikely that the mpg for the additional mileage
provided by the generator will be better than the mpg of the original
engine in that vehicle. In fact, it appears significantly lower.
Small, even most large, generators were never designed for high
efficiency. The energy output will further be taxed by controller and
motor losses, and may be subject to battery cycle losses as well
depending on how it's used.
It will also likely be loud, smelly, and probably illegal to use while
driving since it's a vehicle being used on public roadways using an
engine that could never pass emissions.
Danny
Alan Brinkman wrote:
Hello Mike,
The discussion about a small generator on board is well documented in
the list archives. Emissions from a small generator are higher than a
gas powered vehicle.
For ideas on used parts keep reading the list, or search the archives
and you will see many projects to give you some ideas. Look at the drag
bike http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/DriveChain4.JPG of
Bill Dube using two 6.7 inch DC motors that if I remember correctly
were picked up used & rebuilt by a list member, Jim Husted
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/
Electric forklifts can be a source of motors, contactors, etc.. if you
know what to look for.
You will find that the list has participants that sell new EV parts as
well.
My own project is at a standstill as I look for parts, and am looking to
buy a home (the current prospect does not have a garage, no carport, no
storage, you'd think I live in California where houses cost an arm, a
leg, and your first EV.)
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Cattaneo
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:33 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: New to the list, but intrigued w/ questions
Hello - I never realized the amount of people involved in EV.
Anyway, I would love to try it but for me, for now, the costs involved
seem quite high. Can used parts be had for the conversion? Good idea/
bad idea? I couldn't find a definitive answer, but could a small Honda
or other generator be run on board? This is not to run the motor
directly but to provide charge for distance. Perhaps less batteries for
the trade off??
Information, sources etc. would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:33 AM 17/05/07 -0700, Bike Cattaneo wrote:
Hello - I never realized the amount of people involved in EV.
Several times it has been stated that there are "over 1000 subscribers to
this list" from all over the world.
Anyway, I would love to try it but for me, for now, the costs involved
seem quite high.
Costs can be high, but all is relative.
Can used parts be had for the conversion? Good idea/
bad idea?
Lots of used parts can be had for a connversion, the cheapest wway to get a
complete kit of parts is search for someone elses' used/failed conversion.
Motors from forklifts can be used, but as set up in the fork they are for
MONDO torque but don't need to rev up, but if you have the time and some
tools, that can be dealt with, although your top RPMs will be lower than an
EV specific new motor.
I couldn't find a definitive answer, but could a small Honda
or other generator be run on board?
Yes, but why? If it is to be a now and then thing, fine, but not for full
time use - better to have an aerodynamic diesel car instead.
This is not to run the motor
directly but to provide charge for distance. Perhaps less batteries for
the trade off??
Possibly, if your daily needs are 10 or 15 miles, then you put in the
vehicle enough batteries for 30 miles and (if the donor has been selected
correctly) you'll have a nice handling, useful vehicle. Fire up the
generator for your occasional 70 mile trip.
Information, sources etc. would be greatly appreciated.
Ask, and ye shall receive (at least information) but do try and be informed
before you ask, as *really* dumb questions do get ignored!
Thanks,
Mike
You are welcome
Regards
[Technik] James
(Tasmania, Australia)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Dutko wrote:
I'm using two SW200 contactors with my Zilla 1k. Both will be in the
same location one as the main and the second switching the entire pack
off with the ignition key. Is there a preference to put the pack
contactor on the positive or negative side. IE, example #1- pack
contactor then main contactor in series before Zilla. Example two main
contactor as usual before Zilla then the pack contactor on the
NEGATIVE side of the Zilla between the pack and the ZIlla.
A lot of people like putting the contactors close to each end of the
battery string, to minimize the amount of wire that is energized with
the key off. The Zilla contactor should be on the most positive pole,
and the other contactor (ignition switched so it comes on before the
Zilla is started) is best close to the most negative pole. The middle
is also a good spot, splitting the pack into two lower voltage portions.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That looks nice! My existing grill is a little cracked. I could perform that
same operation and it would stop the rack from running and make the truck look
spiffy too. Thanks for the idea.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: Front End Cover -- was Insulated battery box.
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 13:16 -0700, Grigg. John wrote:
> > Rich, I was checking out your truck photos and I like that cover you
> > have in place of the front grill on your truck. Where did you
> get it?
> > --- John
>
> I took the stock plastic grill, put duct tape over the backside of the
> openings, squirted expandable foam into the openings, shaved off the
> overage, and then bondoed over the top. It kind of had an alien
> look to
> it at first so I had that "ELECTRIC" sign made.
>
> Rich,
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1130
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
It is best to install the contactors where one is on the positive and one on
the negative coming from the battery. The ignition switch turns on the
negative contactor first and apply 12 volts control voltage to the Zilla,
and the start position position of the ignition switch turns on the main
contactor.
If you try to turn both on at the same time, the Zilla may not see the
voltage at the controller and it will go in default which sometimes is cause
by a delay of one contactor over the other.
Another reason to break both lines from the battery, is when you charge the
battery, you are not putting any charging voltage on the Zilla and motor.
If you do not have this isolation during charging, you could have a charging
conductive path from the motor commentator, down the face of the commentator
and to the motor shaft. This causes one leg of the charger voltage to be on
the chassis of the vehicle and sometimes cause arc over in a battery
enclosure that is ground to the frame.
For maximum isolation of all systems, I use one main contactor on the
positive side and then two more contactors that are install on the battery
neg and pos which are call safety or back up contactors.
I have a back up cut of switch to turn off these safety contactors in case
the motor controller or main contactor goes in default.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Second contactor location?
> I'm using two SW200 contactors with my Zilla 1k. Both will be in the
> same location one as the main and the second switching the entire
> pack off with the ignition key. Is there a preference to put the pack
> contactor on the positive or negative side. IE, example #1- pack
> contactor then main contactor in series before Zilla. Example two
> main contactor as usual before Zilla then the pack contactor on the
> NEGATIVE side of the Zilla between the pack and the ZIlla.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BTW Rich I'm running old tired lead myself.
Even so,
The 12.49 number is even more impressive when you do some basic
performance math.
I'm guessing at the following:
Rider + gear = 200 lbs
Biike chassis + motor & controller = 250 lbs
13 pcs (156 volts) 16 ah Hawkers + cabling, fuse , etc... = 210 lbs
Total: 660 lbs
ET: 12.49 secs
According to my calculator they needed approx. 66 HP at the rear wheel.
Figuring 70% (controller + motor + chain & sprocket eff.) that's 94 HP
from 13 old AGM's
On top of that factor in that the top speed was only 100 MPH and it
gets even better.
If they reached 100 at the 1/8th mile and held it, the second 1/8th
would take 4.5 secs.
That only leaves 7.99 seconds for the first 1/8th mile.
If they reached 90 at the 1/8th and gained 10 mph the second 1/8th
would take 5 secs.
That leaves only 7.49 seconds for the first 1/8th mile.
The same as the White Zombie on 1/2 the voltage
More than a full second faster in the 1/8th than AGNS has ever run!
The more I run AGNS the more impressive that 12.49 is.
I may have to make her a trike and use 4 motors
OR
Can you run 3 wheels on a bike in line? Hmmm....
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 17 May 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
And he did it on tired lead with a Raptor 1200 amp controller.
And a single series wound AVDC 8 incher.
That basically is stock.
I will be real surprised if you get even close with permag.
A touch of lithium and 2000 amps, and well, that will make up for our
current draw backs.
You get close and I might have to loan them the Z2K that you used a
couple
years ago..
I am not sure they are in the race this year I have not heard from them
in a
long time.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:54 PM
Subject: AGNS has new motors
The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and ready for a shot at
the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday night.
Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather , (mid 50's and a
chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in place. I tuned them
on the test bench this morning slightly different than before. I'll
try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage this time. We're
making some charging changes as well. Hopefully all of this leads to
the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit closer to the 12's.
I
was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today and it just struck
me
how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane Gergich ran a 12.49 at
100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn quick for any bike but
is second overall to the Killacycle at less than half the voltage! I
think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
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from AOL at AOL.com.
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry , Mistake in my calcs. Whatever happened to proof reading
It should have said reached 80 in the 1/8th and averaged 90 the second
1/8th. (80-100).
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 17 May 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
BTW Rich I'm running old tired lead myself.
Even so,
The 12.49 number is even more impressive when you do some basic
performance math.
I'm guessing at the following:
Rider + gear = 200 lbs
Biike chassis + motor & controller = 250 lbs
13 pcs (156 volts) 16 ah Hawkers + cabling, fuse , etc... = 210 lbs
Total: 660 lbs
ET: 12.49 secs
According to my calculator they needed approx. 66 HP at the rear wheel.
Figuring 70% (controller + motor + chain & sprocket eff.) that's 94 HP
from 13 old AGM's
On top of that factor in that the top speed was only 100 MPH and it
gets even better.
If they reached 100 at the 1/8th mile and held it, the second 1/8th
would take 4.5 secs.
That only leaves 7.99 seconds for the first 1/8th mile.
If they reached 90 at the 1/8th and gained 10 mph the second 1/8th
would take 5 secs.
That leaves only 7.49 seconds for the first 1/8th mile.
The same as the White Zombie on 1/2 the voltage
More than a full second faster in the 1/8th than AGNS has ever run!
The more I run AGNS the more impressive that 12.49 is.
I may have to make her a trike and use 4 motors
OR
Can you run 3 wheels on a bike in line? Hmmm....
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 17 May 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
And he did it on tired lead with a Raptor 1200 amp controller.
And a single series wound AVDC 8 incher.
That basically is stock.
I will be real surprised if you get even close with permag.
A touch of lithium and 2000 amps, and well, that will make up for our
current draw backs.
You get close and I might have to loan them the Z2K that you used a
couple
years ago..
I am not sure they are in the race this year I have not heard from them
in a
long time.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:54 PM
Subject: AGNS has new motors
The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and ready for a shot at
the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday night.
Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather , (mid 50's and a
chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in place. I tuned them
on the test bench this morning slightly different than before. I'll
try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage this time. We're
making some charging changes as well. Hopefully all of this leads to
the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit closer to the 12's.
I
was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today and it just struck
me
how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane Gergich ran a 12.49 at
100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn quick for any bike but
is second overall to the Killacycle at less than half the voltage! I
think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
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